I think if it was to be implemented in that way that respeccing should be limited to before level forty. That would give sufficient leeway after you are able to select your level thirty skills and invest in them. I think at level forty you should be pretty sure what your build is, anyway, not to mention it's roughly the half-way point.
And then, after that, if it was locked, I think that would be very fair as far as the screw-up argument, since by then you'll more than likely (if you're not exploiting glitches in the game) have been playing for a good few hours, since by the time I end Act V in Normal (if I walk it) I'm about level thirty, and it usually takes me about five hours, I think, to do every quest and such through one difficulty setting. And since you'll have been playing for a good many hours, you will most likely know a lot more about the game and your character by the time you hit level forty.
Does that make much sense?
at least until we actually get to use this mechanic.
Yeah, I think so. Ideally, it won't be just an easy thing to do, but from what Bashiok said about it, it sounds like it shouldn't be like that. Of course, we won't really know if that's true or not until the PTR is up, since Bashiok, as we know, is known to stick his foot in his mouth.
Right, synergies, those little bastards. I had forgotten about them.
Well, as I already said, I'd rather they keep respeccing to the minimum, but yours is a good idea. 50 is way too big a number, I'd said 35 tops, since you have all your skills by level 30. And if that was to be implemented, maybe it would only be allowed once? So you can mess around with your skills at first, and once you decided what way to go, spend your respecc and, well, go that way. It would be a good addition to D3, so we can check out every skill with our first character and still make it powerful.
EDIT: Damn, do I type slowly or what? Seth had already summed up what I had to say. I guess you can see our difference from his 40 and my 35
Yeah, makes perfect sense :D.
That was the kind of response I was looking for, thanks man.
Along the same lines of the "newbie proof" feel to the feature, perhaps respecs should only be allowed before you enter into nightmare difficulty?
Would let people take as much time as possible to cement out their build, and figure out their playing style, and what skills they wish to use.
A respec box could even pop up after completing normal difficulty, making sure that players are able to change their builds into what they wish to use for the rest of the game.
This would also make it so the option would only be available once, and only at a certain point in the game.
Or, along those same lines, perhaps respecs after completing each difficulty? Yay or Nay?
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
I don't think after each difficulty. I think after normal mode, you should definitely have an idea of what build you want, since you should be around level 30-40.
I do think, however, there should be another way to respec at any level, but it should be very hard to do- something along the lines of maybe a consumable item from an uber quest or something. I know in the Diablo II files there are extra consumable potions and items that were never implemented (like the Herb)- it could be the reward of an uber quest and allow you to respec a margin of skill points.
It should be, however, not tradeable to discourage duping it.
Agreed, if we get consumables, make em non-tradable.
I'd say make it a buyable item from a skill trainer or something, which is spent as soon as it enters your inventory, allowing you to move one skill point.
If this system was paired with the "Before level X" respec thing, then I think we'd be getting a system that most people can be satisfied with.
It would still promote making new characters, would allow experimentation, and would allow full respecs at high levels with enough time and effort.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
this will absolutely devastate pvp. all those lvl 99 hammerdins who botted their way to the top will now be lvl 99 smiters, lvl 99 chargedins, lvl 99 auradins....etc
Respecs in D2 is a fine line to walk between too easy and pointless. The total time investment to completely respec at level 80 has to be less than the time required to level a new character to 80. For me, without using any glitched rushing this means about 4 hours or so.
I currently have two 85+ druids and two paladins on my main D2 account. Both druids are elemental, one fire, one wind. I leveled the fire one first and completely geared him before I remembered that fire is a terrible element in hell without an infinity merc. I have one smiter, and one Zealer. I leveled the smiter first, geared him, and found smite so terribly easy that I had to make something a bit more difficult.
This seems completely pointless to me. I would openly welcome the ability to take one character, and explore ALL the primary talent builds they have to offer. The catch is, you can't let me switch willy nilly. There has to be a cost. It is hard to say what that should be, but I'm sure blizz will come up with something interesting.
Also, on WoW respecs, they used to be balanced very well. 50g was a good cost way back in 2005/2006, before they put in so many ways to get easy gold. They just never scaled the cost up. I was spending 100-200g on 2 or 4 respecs a week in this time to feed a raid + PvP habbit, at a time when 1000g for an epic mount was considered a big deal.
Respecs are all about what they cost you, too little and it starts to whittle away at character definition, too high and you're stuck with making a new character.
its an ok idea, i like the fact that you can respec but it also kills the reason to create multiple chars bc now a sorc can just respec and own whole game just like pally it brings balance but also less of a need to create new chars (not that a light sorc couldnt own already but id say cold is easier to mf some monsters)
@Deathmars
Respecing is being able to "re-specialize" into another build.
Basically, it means being able to unspend skill/stat points, making them available for use in other skills/stats.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
I'll go make this thread on jsp where old school players that know the game exist in numbers and I gurantee the results will be vastly different.
this will absolutely devastate pvp. all those lvl 99 hammerdins who botted their way to the top will now be lvl 99 smiters, lvl 99 chargedins, lvl 99 auradins....etc
Its going to absolutely devastate pvm as well. Why would anyone ever level anything other then one of the better pvm builds for each class? Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and level a charger or foh'er when I could just level a hammerdin and respec. I'm gonna level a ghost when I could level a trapper, etc... Theres a ton of ways this will totally screw the game up, all because people whine about messing up there characters.
Dude, many of us here are old school players.
I myself, am an old school player.
Been playing Diablo since the first game.
Many of us have the mental capacity to recognize that it's about time we get some features that don't punish players for screwups.
And honestly, does it really matter what you level as?
You're just going to be sitting behind a baal bot in a different build than the one you want to have once you respec.
Or following around a high level friend who is leveling you through chaos runs in a different build..
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
I like the idea of respecing and somethign new to diablo2
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Its going to absolutely devastate pvm as well. Why would anyone ever level anything other then one of the better pvm builds for each class? Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and level a charger or foh'er when I could just level a hammerdin and respec. I'm gonna level a ghost when I could level a trapper, etc... Theres a ton of ways this will totally screw the game up, all because people whine about messing up there characters.
If you play without rushes, and want to play a win elemental druid, is it fun using a level 1 arctic blast and your regular "attack" skill all the way until level 18, where you get an abilty that does 6-8 damage at the first level? What about an orb sorceress? Using ice bolt all the way to 30?
Respecs to promote "Leveling builds" is actually sorely needed for un-rushed gameplay in d2.
Also people complaining about how lvl 99's respec to hammerdin smiter and all that. You act like respecign is all there going to add. What if they nerf hammerdins and smiters and make things harder. You all assume way to much before you know what else is going to be added. Dont complain about it wait until you get real news and whats really going to be in the patch before you complain about it.
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Heh, good point man. I forgot all about them...
Another example could be the poison necro, using poison dagger all the way to level 30.
But I'll bet you that nickm83 will ignore the point you made..
edit: Good point by you too Desmond, no doubt Blizz will nerf hammerdins.
I would hop so anyways, they REALLY need to balance out builds so that all of them become viable, instead of forcing us to make a hammerdin to stay competitive.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
Heh, good point man. I forgot all about them...
Another example could be the poison necro, using poison dagger all the way to level 30.
But I'll bet you that nickm83 will ignore the point you made..
edit: Good point by you too Desmond, no doubt Blizz will nerf hammerdins.
I would hop so anyways, they REALLY need to balance out builds so that all of them become viable, instead of forcing us to make a hammerdin to stay competitive.
The truth is we dont know what will happen when we get a new patch they could change the whole chaos sanctuary intirley they could add alot of new dungeons that are near impossible to beat they could nerf hammerdins and that sort. Dont assume all there going to do is add respec.
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If we could somehow make this
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And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
*nods*
That seems to be the main reasons to be worried about respecs: the game is so flawed at the moment, that a respec could easily be abused.
But from the sounds of it, Blizz is taking a more active stance on anti-piracy, and anti-glitches/exploits, thus I have no worries about respecs, because (hopefully) the rest of the game will be prepared for it.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
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And then, after that, if it was locked, I think that would be very fair as far as the screw-up argument, since by then you'll more than likely (if you're not exploiting glitches in the game) have been playing for a good few hours, since by the time I end Act V in Normal (if I walk it) I'm about level thirty, and it usually takes me about five hours, I think, to do every quest and such through one difficulty setting. And since you'll have been playing for a good many hours, you will most likely know a lot more about the game and your character by the time you hit level forty.
Does that make much sense?
Yeah, I think so. Ideally, it won't be just an easy thing to do, but from what Bashiok said about it, it sounds like it shouldn't be like that. Of course, we won't really know if that's true or not until the PTR is up, since Bashiok, as we know, is known to stick his foot in his mouth.
Well, as I already said, I'd rather they keep respeccing to the minimum, but yours is a good idea. 50 is way too big a number, I'd said 35 tops, since you have all your skills by level 30. And if that was to be implemented, maybe it would only be allowed once? So you can mess around with your skills at first, and once you decided what way to go, spend your respecc and, well, go that way. It would be a good addition to D3, so we can check out every skill with our first character and still make it powerful.
EDIT: Damn, do I type slowly or what? Seth had already summed up what I had to say. I guess you can see our difference from his 40 and my 35
Yeah, definitely only once. I think the option should be there, but it shouldn't be easily abused.
That was the kind of response I was looking for, thanks man.
Along the same lines of the "newbie proof" feel to the feature, perhaps respecs should only be allowed before you enter into nightmare difficulty?
Would let people take as much time as possible to cement out their build, and figure out their playing style, and what skills they wish to use.
A respec box could even pop up after completing normal difficulty, making sure that players are able to change their builds into what they wish to use for the rest of the game.
This would also make it so the option would only be available once, and only at a certain point in the game.
Or, along those same lines, perhaps respecs after completing each difficulty? Yay or Nay?
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I do think, however, there should be another way to respec at any level, but it should be very hard to do- something along the lines of maybe a consumable item from an uber quest or something. I know in the Diablo II files there are extra consumable potions and items that were never implemented (like the Herb)- it could be the reward of an uber quest and allow you to respec a margin of skill points.
It should be, however, not tradeable to discourage duping it.
I'd say make it a buyable item from a skill trainer or something, which is spent as soon as it enters your inventory, allowing you to move one skill point.
If this system was paired with the "Before level X" respec thing, then I think we'd be getting a system that most people can be satisfied with.
It would still promote making new characters, would allow experimentation, and would allow full respecs at high levels with enough time and effort.
good luck
I currently have two 85+ druids and two paladins on my main D2 account. Both druids are elemental, one fire, one wind. I leveled the fire one first and completely geared him before I remembered that fire is a terrible element in hell without an infinity merc. I have one smiter, and one Zealer. I leveled the smiter first, geared him, and found smite so terribly easy that I had to make something a bit more difficult.
This seems completely pointless to me. I would openly welcome the ability to take one character, and explore ALL the primary talent builds they have to offer. The catch is, you can't let me switch willy nilly. There has to be a cost. It is hard to say what that should be, but I'm sure blizz will come up with something interesting.
Also, on WoW respecs, they used to be balanced very well. 50g was a good cost way back in 2005/2006, before they put in so many ways to get easy gold. They just never scaled the cost up. I was spending 100-200g on 2 or 4 respecs a week in this time to feed a raid + PvP habbit, at a time when 1000g for an epic mount was considered a big deal.
Respecs are all about what they cost you, too little and it starts to whittle away at character definition, too high and you're stuck with making a new character.
Respecing is being able to "re-specialize" into another build.
Basically, it means being able to unspend skill/stat points, making them available for use in other skills/stats.
Its going to absolutely devastate pvm as well. Why would anyone ever level anything other then one of the better pvm builds for each class? Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and level a charger or foh'er when I could just level a hammerdin and respec. I'm gonna level a ghost when I could level a trapper, etc... Theres a ton of ways this will totally screw the game up, all because people whine about messing up there characters.
2009, the year Diablo 2 died.
I myself, am an old school player.
Been playing Diablo since the first game.
Many of us have the mental capacity to recognize that it's about time we get some features that don't punish players for screwups.
And honestly, does it really matter what you level as?
You're just going to be sitting behind a baal bot in a different build than the one you want to have once you respec.
Or following around a high level friend who is leveling you through chaos runs in a different build..
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
If you play without rushes, and want to play a win elemental druid, is it fun using a level 1 arctic blast and your regular "attack" skill all the way until level 18, where you get an abilty that does 6-8 damage at the first level? What about an orb sorceress? Using ice bolt all the way to 30?
Respecs to promote "Leveling builds" is actually sorely needed for un-rushed gameplay in d2.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Another example could be the poison necro, using poison dagger all the way to level 30.
But I'll bet you that nickm83 will ignore the point you made..
edit: Good point by you too Desmond, no doubt Blizz will nerf hammerdins.
I would hop so anyways, they REALLY need to balance out builds so that all of them become viable, instead of forcing us to make a hammerdin to stay competitive.
The truth is we dont know what will happen when we get a new patch they could change the whole chaos sanctuary intirley they could add alot of new dungeons that are near impossible to beat they could nerf hammerdins and that sort. Dont assume all there going to do is add respec.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
That seems to be the main reasons to be worried about respecs: the game is so flawed at the moment, that a respec could easily be abused.
But from the sounds of it, Blizz is taking a more active stance on anti-piracy, and anti-glitches/exploits, thus I have no worries about respecs, because (hopefully) the rest of the game will be prepared for it.