So you do some trist runs, tomb runs, cow runs, anciets at 24, and then start baaling, if you have friends in hell with you who will baal you in pub games, that other lowbies usually join so you all get more exp, you can catch up to them pretty damn fast with no grush involved.
Those things aren't even supposed to be in the game in the way that players currently use them. Not that I am personally against using them as they are now, but no one should be using them as an argument against something better to implement in a patch, because they are, themselves, something that needs to be patched.
Respeccing would remove the need for any of them and remove the pointless hours leveling via redundant and boring glitches and rushes.
There is lots of time wasted leveling a character if you're trying to make a new build. If you already earned the levels, there is no reason you should have to completely disband your character and start leveling all over for months to get back to level ninety-five. Most normal people don't have all the spare time in the world to rehash the same pointless exploits in the game over and over again- they have only a few hours a day to commit to the game.
Good point Seth, though what I think is being overlooked is a very simple fact:
Whether someone really digs doing cows / Uber-leveling / whatever, whether that's what they think is fun or what they're used to by now or whatever else, it's not how the game was intended to be played. Just because someone (or even a lot of someones) finds a bug and exploits it for months or even years and has a blast of it...well, guess what: Blizzard doesn't owe you to let you continue exploiting it.
I don't intend this to be considering flaming and I'm genuinely not directing the following statement toward any one person in this thread (though I certainly could), but honestly you'd have to be an absolute, childish idiot to think this is what Blizzard wants, how they expect it to be played -- i.e., leveling to 90 in an hour or whatever it is that some people do.
It's not what was intended. Ever. And the continued exploiting of this kind of stunning rush ability has all but ruined the competitive entertainment of Ladder Play.
If you don't want to play through the game in at least some remote manner of how it was intended to be played, if that bores you because you've done it all before and it's not fun anymore, then don't play it. But do not whine about how a new patch introducing new aspects to the game with at least a semblance of intention of making it fun again when played properly is spoiling your buggy fun.
Sanctuary quite literally is Blizzard's world, and you just play in it.
Edit: The 'you' here is not intended to be directed at Seth; it's an ambiguous directing.
Those things aren't even supposed to be in the game in the way that players currently use them.
They are not in the game to group up and kill in? The reason people use these areas is because they are densely packed with monsters. The game as meant to replay the same areas. Otherwise they wouldnt have bothered with the random area generation. What if you want to get to ubers, should you have to make a new alt for each key attempt becuase each area was intended to be run one time? If you only cleared each area once you'd probably never get out of normal. Suppose baal and minions should only spawn once too, wouldnt want people abusing baal runs.
Nowhere am I saying you should be punished. If you take the time to level a character, you have your reward, you have that particular character. Punishing you would be if the character randomly self deleted for sucking. Nothing would be stopping you from continuing playing a level 95 with a spec that is nondesirable for your current gaming mood or force you to erase them. I'm simply saying, as others have posted, permanant choices add to the unique feel to each character you make as well as add to character diversity.
This is going to be the most bland ladder season ever. Anyone with a clue is going to level as the better pvm builds for each character and respec at high levels. You'll never see a newbie boner when you can just level as a summoner. You'll never see a newbie foh'er when you could just level as an hdin. You'll never see anyone leveling a ghost of venomsin when they could just level as a light trapper. Oh sorry, I must be trolling again, what the hell was I thinking providing actual examples of why respecs are going to blow other then whining about how I hate screwing my characters up.
leveling to 90 in an hour or whatever it is that some people do.
This is called glitch rushing. Like I previously stated I never tried making a case for glitch rushing. There is a difference between glitch rushing, and regular rushing. Saying rushing is wrong, is basically saying its wrong to help someone in an online game. What do you want me to do if my friend asks for help to get past act 4 and 5, follow him with an foh'er and randomly thin the herd for him to make the game 30% easier? Nah, I'd rather just tp him right to the boss and give him the quest.
This is called glitch rushing. Like I previously stated I never tried making a case for glitch rushing. There is a difference between glitch rushing, and regular rushing. Saying rushing is wrong, is basically saying its wrong to help someone in an online game. What do you want me to do if my friend asks for help to get past act 4 and 5, follow him with an foh'er and randomly thin the herd for him to make the game 30% easier? Nah, I'd rather just tp him right to the boss and give him the quest.
The game was not designed for rushing (getting through the game as quick as possible and ignoring content). If it was, all quests would be optional and you could just skip everything. It was not designed to be skipped through, it was designed to be played through. No one is saying that helping a friend is wrong. Heck, I'm not even saying rushing is "wrong". I'm saying it was not an intended part of the game and should be patched to maintain what the game is supposed to be.
The whole basis for rushing is technically a glitch, then, since you are not supposed to be able to skip through acts like that with little or no playing. The expolitation of glitches is actually considered an offense by Blizzard:
Quote from "Datth »
We may ban you for any reason that we do not like such as abusing game glitches. You'll usually see the banned message with the number 10 next to it for exploiting glitches. Please refer to the Terms of Service for more information. [url']http://classic.battle.net/tou.shtml[/url]
If Blizzard wanted to encourage rushing they would not have added restrictions to certain quests in patch 1.10 (you can't take another player's TP in to the Arcane Sanctuary until you have completed the Tainted Sun quest, you can't take another player's TP in to the Canyon of the Magi or any of the subsequent tombs without completing the Summoner's quest, you can't take another player's TP in to the Durance of Hate until you have destroyed the council, you cannot take another player's TP in to the Worldstone Keep, Throne, or Chamber until you have completed the Ancients quest, you cannot get credit for the Ancients quest until you are the required level for the difficulty of that quest (20, 40, or 60))and there are, obviously, other restrictions).
What if you want to get to ubers, should you have to make a new alt for each key attempt becuase each area was intended to be run one time?
Ubers were added in later as supplementary content when it became clear that players only grind in the game. They were added to give variety to a game which has been being played for a decade. I am not denying that after years of playing you obviously are going to end up doing the same areas over and over again at some point, that is an inevitability of time for any game whatsoever. Ubers, however, were added to break up that monotony by adding something new to do. No game, of course, will ever be rid of repetition, and that was never suggested.
To make the game better, however, the need for grinding needs to be removed to its fullest extent.
They are not in the game to group up and kill in?
That also was never said. When they made the Chaos Sanctuary, Blizzard employees didn't say, "So, we know that players are going to make untold thousands of games on Battle.net to suck up the server to run a single area. I know, let's make a level where people get tons of experience and have little player interaction while everyone sits around and leeches experience and drops- we can call it the Chaos Sanctuary!"
No, they made the level to be run with challenge, not to be milked thousands and thousands of times daily by a level 97 Hammerdin while level tens and twenties ran around behind him leeching the whole time. If they designed the game to be rushed through and then leveled in a matter of three hours to level eighty, they would not have even bothered making mandatory quests for progression or the limitations on getting experience in certain acts above certain levels.
Adding a respeccing option (option, you know, the thing you don't have to use if you don't want to but makes it more convenient for everyone?) will greatly lessen the need for all these Baal, Chaos, and other run games where players don't even talk to each other or strategize- they just sit in a room or follow a single powerful player around and absorb experience.
Adding a respeccing option (option, you know, the thing you don't have to use if you don't want to but makes it more convenient for everyone?) will greatly lessen the need for all these Baal, Chaos, and other run games where players don't even talk to each other or strategize- they just sit in a room or follow a single powerful player around and absorb experience.
Hey your finally getting there my friend! Ok now, let's take this in small pieces.
You are anti rushing, so lets pretend there were no rushing games.
You are anti runs, so lets pretend there were no trist runs, tomb runs, cow runs, chaos runs, or baal runs, any of those nifty runs that end in a number that tends to get +1 after each game.
Whats left? You'd have your pub trade games and pub duels. I mean, wouldn't anyone looking for help with an act technically be getting rushed if someone else just popped in and tp'd them to the few things they'd need to do to get past it in a matter of minutes? What you consider fixing the game would actually kill massive portions of it.
As far as making the game convenient for everyone, no, no it will not. Its going to be harder to level lowbies because there wont be nearly as many lowbies in normal after the first few weeks of ladder when everyones got high levels they can just respec. Try leveling in a tomb game solo, and in a full tomb game and tell me which is more convenient. Surely you must have at least noticed this convenience factor even in norm baal games, or do you do solo baal runs to level all your characters?
As far as lessening the need for chaos and baal runs...what?? Of all the characters on ladder, what % do you think are non bot level 99's? Even if everyone had level 99's they'd still do these runs for mf'ing.
Players not talk or strategize? If you want to talk, say something? Unless your in a game with just you and a bot(which I really hope they'd get rid of) you'll get some answers. Strategizing? wtf? The AI in this game is horrible, why would you ever need to strategize? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say your not into dueling. You should really try it out if your not, theres plenty of conversation and strategizing, especially if you get into team duels.
Remember, not everyone is a hardcore "Lets get g-rushed and do chaos runs until 80" kind of person.
Yes and respecing > rushing.
If respecs help to get the amount of rushing and leeching down it's already a good thing only for that reason.
Whats left? You'd have your pub trade games and pub duels.
public xp1+n, exp here 1+n games.. just like before LOD when there really wasn't much Runs games because party exp was poor in a 8 player party. People made random exp games where they hooked up with a friend or some random guy at about same level and went clearing CS, river or something. Or they just soloed which was the best exp if you killed fast enough solo.
those things are going to be in the game regardless of what happens, even if they are patched a new area will come out to level... its going to happen no matter what.
i can get a char to lvl 40 in 3 - 4 hours with ease.... thats a few hours in 1 day. its not tedious, or time wasted its fun.
seth, there are plenty of other games where you can respec and not have to grind out lvls and items all the time. diablo is not one of those games. diablo is a grind game where you are rewarded for your hard work.
"Adding a respeccing option (option, you know, the thing you don't have to use if you don't want to but makes it more convenient for everyone?) will greatly lessen the need for all these Baal, Chaos, and other run games where players don't even talk to each other or strategize- they just sit in a room or follow a single powerful player around and absorb experience."
read the parenthesis, pratice what you preach plz..... now how does it feel that rushing is affecting you even tho your not using it, same way with respecing. so your arguement that if you dont like it dont use it, is flawed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
If respecs help to get the amount of rushing and leeching down it's already a good thing only for that reason.
But rushing is no more then helping someone through the game. Your always going to have leeching in this game. If I'm playing a wwsin and I'm in a game full of trappers and hdins pwning everything, why am I even gonna pretend like im useful and damage my claws. WWsins are aresome pvp'ers though. This is character diversity, as long as it exists there will be leeching(characters helping other characters from a different perspective) in the game. Respeccing is going to take away from character diversity.
public xp1+n, exp here 1+n games.. just like before LOD when there really wasn't much Runs games because party exp was poor in a 8 player party. People made random exp games where they hooked up with a friend or some random guy at about same level and went clearing CS, river or something. Or they just soloed which was the best exp if you killed fast enough solo.
Why would I ever want to clear river when chaos is one area away and contains a lot more unique monsters that have better drops and is more densely packed with monsters then river. Its like the other guy said, even if you nerf certain areas as they are now or buff others, theres always going to be ideal areas people will farm. Nothing ever held anyone back from creating a game for a river run if they want, just not many people would want to bother when theres probably chaos runs going on. As far as the whole best exp solo thing, why would I ever want to run around solo exping when its a multiplayer game? Is giving people reasons to actually play with other people a bad thing on a multiplayer game?
read the parenthesis, pratice what you preach plz..... now how does it feel that rushing is affecting you even tho your not using it, same way with respecing. so your arguement that if you dont like it dont use it, is flawed.
Rushing really doesn't impact him at all. Even if your getting rushed you still have to level the character to 25 before you can exp off baal runs. This means your always going to find characters leveling from 1-25, and have a good chance of finding some norm baal runs when your there. Only way they can argue with rushing is to continuosly bring up glitch rushing, which nobody on the board seems to be in support of anyhow. Otherwise, rushing is simply a player helping another player out in a multiplayer game, how is that a design flaw?
What do you people want, the game to force you to clear every monster in an area before it allows you into the next, and only allows you to join games in which people are in the exact same area as you, because skipping any portion of the game clearly is not how its meant to be palyed. Top it off with respecs, and what you have would be far, far from the design thats made D2 successful.
No one I know agree with that line (I asked), and I know I certainly don't.
Oh but they all agree with having to kill every monster in every area to proceed to the next? Besides, I don't know anyone that agrees with respeccing(I asked), and I know I certainly don't.
Didn't the quote from Bashiok state that the respecing element would be very limited? (Or did i dream that?) In which case it is really just a case of wait and see how their plans are executed.
The interesting debate will start after we've all seen it and can form opinions based on our experiences.
Once they beging pussifying the game, it will be irreversable and awful. I can't wait until they patch in a pikachu class.
.... Most people here agree with respeccing dude.
Just look through the thread, do you not remember that argument early on when damn near everyone went against you?
I'm for respecs, by the way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
That was never even brought up. Stop bringing up irrelevant arguments.
Then how else do you beat the game without some degree of rushing? If your not doing every quest and searching every side area, your rushing, therefore your not playing the game as it was designed according to your logic.
I do.
And you said my point was irrelevant. Respecs are going to go in regardless. Respecs are going to kill the game. I see people in the other thread listed a lot of the same valid reasons I listed in this thread, yet the only support still remains QQ why should I have to remake a character I screwed up on. This isnt D2, this is Pokeland! We're all winners here! Yayyyyy!
Then how else do you beat the game without some degree of rushing?
Rushing is taking advantage of the game in unintended ways.
If your not doing every quest and searching every side area,
I never said you had to do every single quest, but okay. If the game was designed better, then the quests should be advantageous or fun enough to make you want to do them. Since they obviously weren't made that way, respeccing should be an option to avoid having to do this kind of crap all over again when you don't really want to, or you wouldn't be rushing (skipping huge parts of the game, long series of quests or areas).
your rushing,
No, my definition of rushing is skipping through large parts of the game (quests and/or areas) using glitches., or things that are not supposed to happen in the game which should be patched, if you really want to know.
therefore your not playing the game as it was designed according to your logic.
Nice extreme there.
And you said my point was irrelevant.
Want to know why? Because I'm doing exactly what you're doing to everyone with a fair argument. I'm ignoring your good points.
Respecs are going to kill the game.
Right. If there was some way of betting you on it with the forum, I would gladly do it, because that is a lie.
I see people in the other thread listed a lot of the same valid reasons I listed in this thread,
Yes, and people that are appreciative of this type of upgrade in some form have managed to counter every one of them.
yet the only support still remains QQ why should I have to remake a character I screwed up on.
Acutally, there were way more, but, as I said, there's no point in rehashing the arguments to you because you are blind to anything you cannot accept.
This isnt D2, this is Pokeland!
Where's that? A place where they play Polka all the time? That's not even an argument, you're just making fun of other people's ideals. The only reason you would be winning anyone over with any of your arguments is because of personal attacks.
Those things aren't even supposed to be in the game in the way that players currently use them. Not that I am personally against using them as they are now, but no one should be using them as an argument against something better to implement in a patch, because they are, themselves, something that needs to be patched.
Respeccing would remove the need for any of them and remove the pointless hours leveling via redundant and boring glitches and rushes.
There is lots of time wasted leveling a character if you're trying to make a new build. If you already earned the levels, there is no reason you should have to completely disband your character and start leveling all over for months to get back to level ninety-five. Most normal people don't have all the spare time in the world to rehash the same pointless exploits in the game over and over again- they have only a few hours a day to commit to the game.
Whether someone really digs doing cows / Uber-leveling / whatever, whether that's what they think is fun or what they're used to by now or whatever else, it's not how the game was intended to be played. Just because someone (or even a lot of someones) finds a bug and exploits it for months or even years and has a blast of it...well, guess what: Blizzard doesn't owe you to let you continue exploiting it.
I don't intend this to be considering flaming and I'm genuinely not directing the following statement toward any one person in this thread (though I certainly could), but honestly you'd have to be an absolute, childish idiot to think this is what Blizzard wants, how they expect it to be played -- i.e., leveling to 90 in an hour or whatever it is that some people do.
It's not what was intended. Ever. And the continued exploiting of this kind of stunning rush ability has all but ruined the competitive entertainment of Ladder Play.
If you don't want to play through the game in at least some remote manner of how it was intended to be played, if that bores you because you've done it all before and it's not fun anymore, then don't play it. But do not whine about how a new patch introducing new aspects to the game with at least a semblance of intention of making it fun again when played properly is spoiling your buggy fun.
Sanctuary quite literally is Blizzard's world, and you just play in it.
Edit: The 'you' here is not intended to be directed at Seth; it's an ambiguous directing.
They are not in the game to group up and kill in? The reason people use these areas is because they are densely packed with monsters. The game as meant to replay the same areas. Otherwise they wouldnt have bothered with the random area generation. What if you want to get to ubers, should you have to make a new alt for each key attempt becuase each area was intended to be run one time? If you only cleared each area once you'd probably never get out of normal. Suppose baal and minions should only spawn once too, wouldnt want people abusing baal runs.
Nowhere am I saying you should be punished. If you take the time to level a character, you have your reward, you have that particular character. Punishing you would be if the character randomly self deleted for sucking. Nothing would be stopping you from continuing playing a level 95 with a spec that is nondesirable for your current gaming mood or force you to erase them. I'm simply saying, as others have posted, permanant choices add to the unique feel to each character you make as well as add to character diversity.
This is going to be the most bland ladder season ever. Anyone with a clue is going to level as the better pvm builds for each character and respec at high levels. You'll never see a newbie boner when you can just level as a summoner. You'll never see a newbie foh'er when you could just level as an hdin. You'll never see anyone leveling a ghost of venomsin when they could just level as a light trapper. Oh sorry, I must be trolling again, what the hell was I thinking providing actual examples of why respecs are going to blow other then whining about how I hate screwing my characters up.
This is called glitch rushing. Like I previously stated I never tried making a case for glitch rushing. There is a difference between glitch rushing, and regular rushing. Saying rushing is wrong, is basically saying its wrong to help someone in an online game. What do you want me to do if my friend asks for help to get past act 4 and 5, follow him with an foh'er and randomly thin the herd for him to make the game 30% easier? Nah, I'd rather just tp him right to the boss and give him the quest.
The game was not designed for rushing (getting through the game as quick as possible and ignoring content). If it was, all quests would be optional and you could just skip everything. It was not designed to be skipped through, it was designed to be played through. No one is saying that helping a friend is wrong. Heck, I'm not even saying rushing is "wrong". I'm saying it was not an intended part of the game and should be patched to maintain what the game is supposed to be.
The whole basis for rushing is technically a glitch, then, since you are not supposed to be able to skip through acts like that with little or no playing. The expolitation of glitches is actually considered an offense by Blizzard:
If Blizzard wanted to encourage rushing they would not have added restrictions to certain quests in patch 1.10 (you can't take another player's TP in to the Arcane Sanctuary until you have completed the Tainted Sun quest, you can't take another player's TP in to the Canyon of the Magi or any of the subsequent tombs without completing the Summoner's quest, you can't take another player's TP in to the Durance of Hate until you have destroyed the council, you cannot take another player's TP in to the Worldstone Keep, Throne, or Chamber until you have completed the Ancients quest, you cannot get credit for the Ancients quest until you are the required level for the difficulty of that quest (20, 40, or 60))and there are, obviously, other restrictions).
Ubers were added in later as supplementary content when it became clear that players only grind in the game. They were added to give variety to a game which has been being played for a decade. I am not denying that after years of playing you obviously are going to end up doing the same areas over and over again at some point, that is an inevitability of time for any game whatsoever. Ubers, however, were added to break up that monotony by adding something new to do. No game, of course, will ever be rid of repetition, and that was never suggested.
To make the game better, however, the need for grinding needs to be removed to its fullest extent.
That also was never said. When they made the Chaos Sanctuary, Blizzard employees didn't say, "So, we know that players are going to make untold thousands of games on Battle.net to suck up the server to run a single area. I know, let's make a level where people get tons of experience and have little player interaction while everyone sits around and leeches experience and drops- we can call it the Chaos Sanctuary!"
No, they made the level to be run with challenge, not to be milked thousands and thousands of times daily by a level 97 Hammerdin while level tens and twenties ran around behind him leeching the whole time. If they designed the game to be rushed through and then leveled in a matter of three hours to level eighty, they would not have even bothered making mandatory quests for progression or the limitations on getting experience in certain acts above certain levels.
Adding a respeccing option (option, you know, the thing you don't have to use if you don't want to but makes it more convenient for everyone?) will greatly lessen the need for all these Baal, Chaos, and other run games where players don't even talk to each other or strategize- they just sit in a room or follow a single powerful player around and absorb experience.
Hey your finally getting there my friend! Ok now, let's take this in small pieces.
You are anti rushing, so lets pretend there were no rushing games.
You are anti runs, so lets pretend there were no trist runs, tomb runs, cow runs, chaos runs, or baal runs, any of those nifty runs that end in a number that tends to get +1 after each game.
Whats left? You'd have your pub trade games and pub duels. I mean, wouldn't anyone looking for help with an act technically be getting rushed if someone else just popped in and tp'd them to the few things they'd need to do to get past it in a matter of minutes? What you consider fixing the game would actually kill massive portions of it.
As far as making the game convenient for everyone, no, no it will not. Its going to be harder to level lowbies because there wont be nearly as many lowbies in normal after the first few weeks of ladder when everyones got high levels they can just respec. Try leveling in a tomb game solo, and in a full tomb game and tell me which is more convenient. Surely you must have at least noticed this convenience factor even in norm baal games, or do you do solo baal runs to level all your characters?
As far as lessening the need for chaos and baal runs...what?? Of all the characters on ladder, what % do you think are non bot level 99's? Even if everyone had level 99's they'd still do these runs for mf'ing.
Players not talk or strategize? If you want to talk, say something? Unless your in a game with just you and a bot(which I really hope they'd get rid of) you'll get some answers. Strategizing? wtf? The AI in this game is horrible, why would you ever need to strategize? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say your not into dueling. You should really try it out if your not, theres plenty of conversation and strategizing, especially if you get into team duels.
If respecs help to get the amount of rushing and leeching down it's already a good thing only for that reason.
public xp1+n, exp here 1+n games.. just like before LOD when there really wasn't much Runs games because party exp was poor in a 8 player party. People made random exp games where they hooked up with a friend or some random guy at about same level and went clearing CS, river or something. Or they just soloed which was the best exp if you killed fast enough solo.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
i can get a char to lvl 40 in 3 - 4 hours with ease.... thats a few hours in 1 day. its not tedious, or time wasted its fun.
seth, there are plenty of other games where you can respec and not have to grind out lvls and items all the time. diablo is not one of those games. diablo is a grind game where you are rewarded for your hard work.
"Adding a respeccing option (option, you know, the thing you don't have to use if you don't want to but makes it more convenient for everyone?) will greatly lessen the need for all these Baal, Chaos, and other run games where players don't even talk to each other or strategize- they just sit in a room or follow a single powerful player around and absorb experience."
read the parenthesis, pratice what you preach plz..... now how does it feel that rushing is affecting you even tho your not using it, same way with respecing. so your arguement that if you dont like it dont use it, is flawed.
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
But rushing is no more then helping someone through the game. Your always going to have leeching in this game. If I'm playing a wwsin and I'm in a game full of trappers and hdins pwning everything, why am I even gonna pretend like im useful and damage my claws. WWsins are aresome pvp'ers though. This is character diversity, as long as it exists there will be leeching(characters helping other characters from a different perspective) in the game. Respeccing is going to take away from character diversity.
Why would I ever want to clear river when chaos is one area away and contains a lot more unique monsters that have better drops and is more densely packed with monsters then river. Its like the other guy said, even if you nerf certain areas as they are now or buff others, theres always going to be ideal areas people will farm. Nothing ever held anyone back from creating a game for a river run if they want, just not many people would want to bother when theres probably chaos runs going on. As far as the whole best exp solo thing, why would I ever want to run around solo exping when its a multiplayer game? Is giving people reasons to actually play with other people a bad thing on a multiplayer game?
Rushing really doesn't impact him at all. Even if your getting rushed you still have to level the character to 25 before you can exp off baal runs. This means your always going to find characters leveling from 1-25, and have a good chance of finding some norm baal runs when your there. Only way they can argue with rushing is to continuosly bring up glitch rushing, which nobody on the board seems to be in support of anyhow. Otherwise, rushing is simply a player helping another player out in a multiplayer game, how is that a design flaw?
What do you people want, the game to force you to clear every monster in an area before it allows you into the next, and only allows you to join games in which people are in the exact same area as you, because skipping any portion of the game clearly is not how its meant to be palyed. Top it off with respecs, and what you have would be far, far from the design thats made D2 successful.
Oh but they all agree with having to kill every monster in every area to proceed to the next? Besides, I don't know anyone that agrees with respeccing(I asked), and I know I certainly don't.
Once they beging pussifying the game, it will be irreversable and awful. I can't wait until they patch in a pikachu class.
That was never even brought up. Stop bringing up irrelevant arguments.
I do.
Fixed your sentence for you.
Just look through the thread, do you not remember that argument early on when damn near everyone went against you?
I'm for respecs, by the way.
Then how else do you beat the game without some degree of rushing? If your not doing every quest and searching every side area, your rushing, therefore your not playing the game as it was designed according to your logic.
And you said my point was irrelevant. Respecs are going to go in regardless. Respecs are going to kill the game. I see people in the other thread listed a lot of the same valid reasons I listed in this thread, yet the only support still remains QQ why should I have to remake a character I screwed up on. This isnt D2, this is Pokeland! We're all winners here! Yayyyyy!
Rushing is taking advantage of the game in unintended ways.
I never said you had to do every single quest, but okay. If the game was designed better, then the quests should be advantageous or fun enough to make you want to do them. Since they obviously weren't made that way, respeccing should be an option to avoid having to do this kind of crap all over again when you don't really want to, or you wouldn't be rushing (skipping huge parts of the game, long series of quests or areas).
No, my definition of rushing is skipping through large parts of the game (quests and/or areas) using glitches., or things that are not supposed to happen in the game which should be patched, if you really want to know.
Nice extreme there.
Want to know why? Because I'm doing exactly what you're doing to everyone with a fair argument. I'm ignoring your good points.
Right. If there was some way of betting you on it with the forum, I would gladly do it, because that is a lie.
Yes, and people that are appreciative of this type of upgrade in some form have managed to counter every one of them.
Acutally, there were way more, but, as I said, there's no point in rehashing the arguments to you because you are blind to anything you cannot accept.
Where's that? A place where they play Polka all the time? That's not even an argument, you're just making fun of other people's ideals. The only reason you would be winning anyone over with any of your arguments is because of personal attacks.