I'm the first person to bring this up that I'm aware of, and I'm shocked the devs didn't mention this either; Ethereal items in D2 = Ancient items in D3, without the durability dynamic.
Why has this not been brought up yet? They even have about the same disparity in regard to chance to spawn.
It's actually uncanny, and bizarre that the devs may have unwittingly given us an equivalent tier to Ethereal.
BTW; I'm psyched for the emergence of the Ancient tier, and the devs would be committing a HUGE fuck-up if they did anything to lesson the rarity of this item tier from what they've already proposed.
@Autochton: You are probably right about the numbers but i guess this whole discussion has no merit since we can't really see the statistics and raw numbers behind the activity of the playerbase.
@Ruksak: Wyatt cheng compared the rarity of ancients to the relation between exceptional and elite tiers in d2 which imo is a total bullshit thing to say. Elite items in d2 were a lot rarer than 10% of all unique drops... I don't understand why you think anyone should have brought this up to be honest... There's a rarirty tier that is similar to something in d2 ok, but in d2 Etheral didn't mean an automatically awesome item... Remember you had to actually have the high runes for a runeword that made a weapon indestructable to be able to make anything out of that item (botd comes to mind obviously). But even then, you had to have the exact amount of sockets needed so if the item already rolled socketed and not 6 soc or w/e it's total garbage. Other pieces like etheral armors for runewords or etheral uniques were useful only on mercenaries which is a nice mechanic i guess but always seemed unintentional by the devs and somehow kept in game when they realized that it's actually cool (Mercenaries in d2 didn't suffer durability loss) - Etheral Andariel's visage comes to mind.
In D3, an ancient item is automatically a better item. In d2 you had several layers of rng + things that the player needs to do i.e socket + get runes... In D3, the first ancient weapon you will find will DESTROY every other previous weapon you had no matter what legendary affixes it has or what rolls it previously had... a 1 handed ancient monster hunter is possibly better than a freaking perfect furnace (probably an exxageration but you know what i mean).
I liked that in d2 you could invest in an item. You could upgrade a unique armor for an example (gore riders, vipermagi, etc..) and socket it and invest a good rune on it. The best memorable example is a soc'd up'd 35 all res vipermagi with an UM rune which resulted in an armor for your wiz with over 800 defense and 50 all res (obviously fcr, 1 to all skils, etc...). That's the kind of stuff i like to have in d3, not an automatic roflstomp of all your previous items just because you found the new "falvor of the patch"...
The only upside i can see from this ancient items tier is that it will actually make underused crappy weapons useable. Again, the example of the monster hunter; It will probably be the best 1h item you can put your hands on, at least for a while untill you find the good items in their ancient version. An ancient warmonger (underused crappy 2h sword) will be better than a perfect furnace for an example which can be good because people will start running with "new" items all of a sudden but it will only take a while untill everyone who plays enough has an ancient furnace. Well you know, not everyone but a lot of people.
I'm personally not really concerned because i know that i will get lucky with the drops. I just wish that they could introduce a system of upgrades that required the player to invest his time into a certain item and not something 100% rng reliant. I don't understand why players praise this... If you wanted somethign that truly appleis to people who play a lot and "deserve" an upgrade, then you should be more in favor of an expensive recipe like i mentioned in one of my previous posts. A recipe which costs materials that take you a month to farm for an example.
In D3, an ancient item is automatically a better item. In d2 you had several layers of rng + things that the player needs to do i.e socket + get runes...
I'm only referencing my point about Ethereal items with the following, as I assume is what you meant by the above.
Ethereal items would've had no use without a Zod, a rune that was shown to have such small odds, that it was calculated you would need approx 38,376,412 drops
These types of odds encompassed many of the commonly used items in D2, only typically available to the player through trade. Only available through trade due to the saturation of the market in duped material/items.
Blizzard North never intended you to have most of what you had. And that's with trading in mind. The addition of the Ancient tier is a fantastic step forward, and a simultaneous step back to the roots of Diablo 2. We should welcome this new tier with open arms, and encourage them to continue this sort of continued thinking by the devs.
Wyatt cheng compared the rarity of ancients to the relation between exceptional and elite tiers in d2 which imo is a total bullshit thing to say.
I agree. That's why I said he was wrong, and I'm shocked nobody is drawing this correlation between the increased % on ethereal rolls to that of the Ancient tier. Even the drop rate differential is almost exactly the same.
In D3, an ancient item is automatically a better item. In d2 you had several layers of rng + things that the player needs to do i.e socket + get runes...
I'm only referencing my point about Ethereal items with the following, as I assume is what you meant by the above.
Ethereal items would've had no use without a Zod, a rune that was shown to have such small odds, that it was calculated you would need approx 38,376,412 drops
These types of odds encompassed many of the commonly used items in D2, only typically available to the player through trade. Only available through trade due to the saturation of the market in duped material/items.
Blizzard North never intended you to have most of what you had. And that's with trading in mind. The addition of the Ancient tier is a fantastic step forward, and a simultaneous step back to the roots of Diablo 2. We should welcome this new tier with open arms, and encourage them to continue this sort of continued thinking by the devs.
Wyatt cheng compared the rarity of ancients to the relation between exceptional and elite tiers in d2 which imo is a total bullshit thing to say.
I agree. That's why I said he was wrong, and I'm shocked nobody is drawing this correlation between the increased % on ethereal rolls to that of the Ancient tier. Even the drop rate differential is almost exactly the same.
No etheral item was ever useful by itself even if you zod it. It had to have a certain ammount of sockets for certain rw's used by you (only ones that used zod) or used by your mercenary (which could be kept ehteral i.e infinity eth cv). Also add another layer of rng because you wanted those items to roll as superior with 15% ed (defense or damage respectively).
So in d2 you had to have:
1. An etheral item drop.
2. It had to have a certain ammount of sockets or 0 sockets so you can use the quest which gave you max socs on white items which limited your rw choice.
3. It was 15% better if you could find a superior version of it.
4. You had to actually find the runes.
All of those layers of rng trump the 5-10% Wyatt was talking about. Sure in d2 you had a bot ridden economy which made all of those items easily accesible but did the dev develop in the intention of catering towards this type of economy? I doubt it. Let's say that you are playing single player legit self found. The ammount of time and effort you needed to invest into getting an - Etheral superior berserker axe 6 socketed with Vex hel el eld zod eth (pulled it out of my head, not sure if accurate) is crazy and felt insanely rewarding.
In D3 it's just 1 layer of rng after the specific legendary item roll which is not interesting at all. I compare it to the ilvl 63 thing because that's what it will eventually turn into. Every piece of gear that is not ancient will be garbage in comparison.
My point is that it's not an interesting system at all. Jsut more rng for the lucky people to be happy about. I don't like the initial snowball effect that it will create when some person from a decent clan gets a crazy ancient weapon on day one and suddenly his clan is able to clear like 5 levels of GR higher than everybody else (just throwing a numebr here) which will lead them to more xp and loot gained - snowball effect.
Again, i would really like it to be some sort of a system that you have to work through and upgrade your gear with. Something that is tied to GR clears immediately comes to mind. Like balancing it somehow to make it so every GR level previously uncleared by you will give you a recipe that you can use once on some item along with having a high cost of materials or something along those lines.
I don't think that ancient items will really "reward players who play the most" because RNG is RNG and some people will be unlucky like shit. Some noobs will get the best items in one week. I know people who played hundreds (even thousands) of hours without getting that one extremely rare item (wow for an example) and that really sucks. I don't see how this new tier is any different.
TL:DR: I expect the devs to add upgrades in a more interesting manner like upgrading systems that are tied in with GR for an example and not just increase the stats on items and make them a bit rarer.
why do you ask these things? It's been like this since ever, no retroactive changes for orange legendaries.
I have a sash of knives without the new legendary affix which sucks btw. I'd prefer the increased ~50% damage for FOK over it anyday.
Besides, I don't think they would touch any of the viable or mostly used orange legendaries so there really isn't much difference if you had to farm the improved ones after patch. (l.e. crudest boots, depth of diggers)
also, not like you'd automatically get ancient versions :/
I agree that I wish D3 had the more complex systems in place for manipulating gear. As an old school PC gamer, I have an appreciation for the minutia of having to research itemization charts etc. I have an appreciation for extra steps needed in order to upgrade. But players these days, it's no wonder things have been simplified. Look at how many players @Bnet are throwing a fit about RnG layers.
Imagine if you needed all those steps that made Ethereal items applicable for use/upgrade for Ancients? You'd have Bnet exploding with complaints about the extra "layers of RnG".
The thing is; When I read your post I can't get a bead on you. I can't tell if you want layers of RnG, or if you hate them? Myself, I like it. I want RnG to stay healthy in D3 and provide us with variation. I want items to feel "special" and when granted a great roll on an ultra-rare item, I want something I can be proud of, something that stands out. RnG drives this factor. IT is the feast and famine that makes Diablo games appeal to me.
span>The ammount of time and effort you needed to invest into getting an - Etheral superior berserker axe 6 socketed with Vex hel el eld zod eth (pulled it out of my head, not sure if accurate) is crazy and felt insanely rewarding.
I honestly don't think anyone ever ever ever did that. Legit, no mods, no hack, no bot, no dupes, no trades, I cannot fathom that this was ever accomplished. If you were stranded on a desert Island for 14 years with a laptop and a copy of D2, perhaps. Probably not though.
And how do you guys feel about this Ancients Legendary? Can't really put my head around making a stronger version of an existing weapon, an calling it awesome.
And how do you guys feel about this Ancients Legendary BS?
Like the idea. As long as they stay incredibly rare, it should be nothing but a positive. I know it's shocking, but many players are overreacting to something that hasn't even entered the PTR iteration process yet. Let's all just take a deep breath and see how things go.
Really? I mean, best thing they could do, is to create new items so we could have more builds and use skills that are not viable today. New interactions and such. Gversions of items is nothing but a lazy solution to keep farming, but staying the same.
My thinking at least is: New Barb set to use Rend/WW, and Skull Grasp (WW being a fan favorite and on every players wish list since the killing of Perma Wrath Barb) - Awesome
Up to 30% stronger Maximus or Furnace (If you are lucky enough to get more than one in your life time), with RNG on top of RNG, uninspired solution.
Really? I mean, best thing they could do, is to create new items so we could have more builds and use skills that are not viable today. New interactions and such. Gversions of items is nothing but a lazy solution to keep farming, but staying the same.
My thinking at least is: New Barb set to use Rend/WW, and Skull Grasp (WW being a fan favorite and on every players wish list since the killing of Perma Wrath Barb) - Awesome
Up to 30% stronger Maximus or Furnace (If you are lucky enough to get more than one in your life time), with RNG on top of RNG, uninspired solution.
Why do you think it's a great thing?
Because it separates legendaries into two tiers. Because the proposed droprate isn't so low that you'll not be finding ancient items. Because an ancient (insert weapon here) will be able to compete with non-ancient Furnace, and will be common enough that you won't be hosed at trying to get into higher GRifts based on luck.
And of course they're also slowly but surely adding interesting legendary effects to all the items that don't have one. So really we're getting best of both worlds.
You say you want something to feel special, to be proud of, and yet it was something you got lucky and ended up with....those feelings to me are attributed to something I pursued deliberately and worked towards with a plan in mind and a visible goal. RNG doesn't impart that on me. I just feel "lucky".
That said, I do like the Ancient announcement , I can see it's a step forward for the GRifts, and a necessary step due to time and financial constraints on a nonsubscription based game. I get it, but special?
I am not saying that i want all of those layers of RNG in D3. I'm saying that the devs shouldn't act as if they are introducing something special, they jsut add one layer and call it a day. I think it's half-assed. I want them to add complex systems of upgrades etc.
Really? I mean, best thing they could do, is to create new items so we could have more builds and use skills that are not viable today. New interactions and such. Gversions of items is nothing but a lazy solution to keep farming, but staying the same.
My thinking at least is: New Barb set to use Rend/WW, and Skull Grasp (WW being a fan favorite and on every players wish list since the killing of Perma Wrath Barb) - Awesome
Up to 30% stronger Maximus or Furnace (If you are lucky enough to get more than one in your life time), with RNG on top of RNG, uninspired solution.
Why do you think it's a great thing?
As for your "more builds and use use skills that are not viable today": There will never be more builds. There will be different builds. Once there is a new build (using items or skills not viable today), the other builds will not be used anymore because not viable (Example? Show me 1 wizard that had all sets and was seriously playing firebird in 2.0, everyone was archon. Now show me 1 wizard with all sets available that is still going archon in 2.1 after firebird set buff. Yes, new build, non viable skills being used, but still only 1 build and new non viable skill: archon).
Why do I think it is great? In 2.0, I managed to gear up a character with BIS items, playing another char and gambling on the wanted char, in 10-20 hours (I might have been lucky, but did it with barb, sader and wiz). In 2.1, I had the full DH set the second day of season, and completed all 3 monk sets after 30 hours playtime on my monk (not powerlevelled!). Since I'm not for competition (leaderboard) but like the grind for perfect items, the game is almost done for me. Any upgrade I find when I have the right item, is so small, it does not motivate me to play. Having hundreds/thousands of hours on a char to have around 1000 more mainstat that someone that played 20 hours (low vs high roll is about 80-90 difference, on 13 items, nobody has perfect low rolls on everything) is sad.
Adding a new tier, with better rolls and low drop chance, give the option to complete your set quick (with the "normal" items) so you have a working build, while rewarding the people that really grind for the best items.
It's the RNG on top of RNG (as you call it) that makes it attracktive for me. It might be a bit uninspired, it will not fix any problems (but as I said, nothing will fix the 1 build problem, you can even say that super rare items add more played builds into the game, because you have to play something until you get that super rare item), but it is a step to promote farming and another form of end game.
You say you want something to feel special, to be proud of, and yet it was something you got lucky and ended up with....those feelings to me are attributed to something I pursued deliberately and worked towards with a plan in mind and a visible goal. RNG doesn't impart that on me. I just feel "lucky".
YES. Yes, yes and hell yes.
To which I counter; As opposed to what? I traded for this? My rich buddy gave this to me? I bought this with my credit card?
Yeah, I earned this. I started with a few potions, a crappy sword, a crappy shield, I walked down that road to old Tristram after some great time, I killed a motherfucker and took THIS from it.
If no pride is garnered from luck, then from what exactly would an item in Diablo be garnered with pride? Luck is the byproduct of effort.
A BRAND NEW FEATURE THAT MAKES THE GAME BETTER AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT?
WHATS NEW?
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At least people are politely discussing why they don't like it. The only one looking ridiculous here is you with all those caps so gtfo.
You are right about the caps, but I don't completely agree with the "discussing" part. Some do, but most things that I read is that people dislike the RNG, and even more a (hidden) complaint they don't have the gear they want now, and it will become even harder.
There are 2 ways to give items: either RNG drops, or at some fixed "points" (Even those points would be RNG in most cases. Certain amount of xp? Not all mobs are same amount of XP, some are harder to kill, ... Trade for something else that drops, basically "buy" it with a new currency? When will it drop? Only way to not make that random is to do it at a fixed place and time...).
So people are complaining about RNG in an RNG based game, that is made to grind for the perfect items (and now sadly has leaderboards, resulting in people having an argument why they "need" all those best items, but that part is not the core of the game).
I am not saying that i want all of those layers of RNG in D3. I'm saying that the devs shouldn't act as if they are introducing something special, they jsut add one layer and call it a day. I think it's half-assed. I want them to add complex systems of upgrades etc.
This would be awesome, and would necessitate cash...there are constrictions here I'm sure, and no, we aren't privy t them but some capitalistic common sense should be applied when trying to see all points of view.
Why has this not been brought up yet? They even have about the same disparity in regard to chance to spawn.
It's actually uncanny, and bizarre that the devs may have unwittingly given us an equivalent tier to Ethereal.
BTW; I'm psyched for the emergence of the Ancient tier, and the devs would be committing a HUGE fuck-up if they did anything to lesson the rarity of this item tier from what they've already proposed.
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@Ruksak: Wyatt cheng compared the rarity of ancients to the relation between exceptional and elite tiers in d2 which imo is a total bullshit thing to say. Elite items in d2 were a lot rarer than 10% of all unique drops... I don't understand why you think anyone should have brought this up to be honest... There's a rarirty tier that is similar to something in d2 ok, but in d2 Etheral didn't mean an automatically awesome item... Remember you had to actually have the high runes for a runeword that made a weapon indestructable to be able to make anything out of that item (botd comes to mind obviously). But even then, you had to have the exact amount of sockets needed so if the item already rolled socketed and not 6 soc or w/e it's total garbage. Other pieces like etheral armors for runewords or etheral uniques were useful only on mercenaries which is a nice mechanic i guess but always seemed unintentional by the devs and somehow kept in game when they realized that it's actually cool (Mercenaries in d2 didn't suffer durability loss) - Etheral Andariel's visage comes to mind.
In D3, an ancient item is automatically a better item. In d2 you had several layers of rng + things that the player needs to do i.e socket + get runes... In D3, the first ancient weapon you will find will DESTROY every other previous weapon you had no matter what legendary affixes it has or what rolls it previously had... a 1 handed ancient monster hunter is possibly better than a freaking perfect furnace (probably an exxageration but you know what i mean).
I liked that in d2 you could invest in an item. You could upgrade a unique armor for an example (gore riders, vipermagi, etc..) and socket it and invest a good rune on it. The best memorable example is a soc'd up'd 35 all res vipermagi with an UM rune which resulted in an armor for your wiz with over 800 defense and 50 all res (obviously fcr, 1 to all skils, etc...). That's the kind of stuff i like to have in d3, not an automatic roflstomp of all your previous items just because you found the new "falvor of the patch"...
The only upside i can see from this ancient items tier is that it will actually make underused crappy weapons useable. Again, the example of the monster hunter; It will probably be the best 1h item you can put your hands on, at least for a while untill you find the good items in their ancient version. An ancient warmonger (underused crappy 2h sword) will be better than a perfect furnace for an example which can be good because people will start running with "new" items all of a sudden but it will only take a while untill everyone who plays enough has an ancient furnace. Well you know, not everyone but a lot of people.
I'm personally not really concerned because i know that i will get lucky with the drops. I just wish that they could introduce a system of upgrades that required the player to invest his time into a certain item and not something 100% rng reliant. I don't understand why players praise this... If you wanted somethign that truly appleis to people who play a lot and "deserve" an upgrade, then you should be more in favor of an expensive recipe like i mentioned in one of my previous posts. A recipe which costs materials that take you a month to farm for an example.
Ethereal items would've had no use without a Zod, a rune that was shown to have such small odds, that it was calculated you would need approx 38,376,412 drops
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-misc-forums/diablo-legacy-forums/diablo-ii/72812-the-probability-of-finding-a-zod-rune
These types of odds encompassed many of the commonly used items in D2, only typically available to the player through trade. Only available through trade due to the saturation of the market in duped material/items.
Blizzard North never intended you to have most of what you had. And that's with trading in mind. The addition of the Ancient tier is a fantastic step forward, and a simultaneous step back to the roots of Diablo 2. We should welcome this new tier with open arms, and encourage them to continue this sort of continued thinking by the devs.
I agree. That's why I said he was wrong, and I'm shocked nobody is drawing this correlation between the increased % on ethereal rolls to that of the Ancient tier. Even the drop rate differential is almost exactly the same.
Check this out. Ethereal occurs on about 5% of all weapons and armor. (D2) http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Ethereal
Embrace your new, no-zod Ethereal's, Diablofans. They have arrived, and not even the devs realize it yet.
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Ethereal items would've had no use without a Zod, a rune that was shown to have such small odds, that it was calculated you would need approx 38,376,412 drops
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-misc-forums/diablo-legacy-forums/diablo-ii/72812-the-probability-of-finding-a-zod-rune
These types of odds encompassed many of the commonly used items in D2, only typically available to the player through trade. Only available through trade due to the saturation of the market in duped material/items.
Blizzard North never intended you to have most of what you had. And that's with trading in mind. The addition of the Ancient tier is a fantastic step forward, and a simultaneous step back to the roots of Diablo 2. We should welcome this new tier with open arms, and encourage them to continue this sort of continued thinking by the devs.
I agree. That's why I said he was wrong, and I'm shocked nobody is drawing this correlation between the increased % on ethereal rolls to that of the Ancient tier. Even the drop rate differential is almost exactly the same.
Check this out. Ethereal occurs on about 5% of all weapons and armor. (D2) http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Ethereal
Embrace your new, no-zod Ethereal's, Diablofans. They have arrived.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
No etheral item was ever useful by itself even if you zod it. It had to have a certain ammount of sockets for certain rw's used by you (only ones that used zod) or used by your mercenary (which could be kept ehteral i.e infinity eth cv). Also add another layer of rng because you wanted those items to roll as superior with 15% ed (defense or damage respectively).
So in d2 you had to have:
1. An etheral item drop.
2. It had to have a certain ammount of sockets or 0 sockets so you can use the quest which gave you max socs on white items which limited your rw choice.
3. It was 15% better if you could find a superior version of it.
4. You had to actually find the runes.
All of those layers of rng trump the 5-10% Wyatt was talking about. Sure in d2 you had a bot ridden economy which made all of those items easily accesible but did the dev develop in the intention of catering towards this type of economy? I doubt it. Let's say that you are playing single player legit self found. The ammount of time and effort you needed to invest into getting an - Etheral superior berserker axe 6 socketed with Vex hel el eld zod eth (pulled it out of my head, not sure if accurate) is crazy and felt insanely rewarding.
In D3 it's just 1 layer of rng after the specific legendary item roll which is not interesting at all. I compare it to the ilvl 63 thing because that's what it will eventually turn into. Every piece of gear that is not ancient will be garbage in comparison.
My point is that it's not an interesting system at all. Jsut more rng for the lucky people to be happy about. I don't like the initial snowball effect that it will create when some person from a decent clan gets a crazy ancient weapon on day one and suddenly his clan is able to clear like 5 levels of GR higher than everybody else (just throwing a numebr here) which will lead them to more xp and loot gained - snowball effect.
Again, i would really like it to be some sort of a system that you have to work through and upgrade your gear with. Something that is tied to GR clears immediately comes to mind. Like balancing it somehow to make it so every GR level previously uncleared by you will give you a recipe that you can use once on some item along with having a high cost of materials or something along those lines.
I don't think that ancient items will really "reward players who play the most" because RNG is RNG and some people will be unlucky like shit. Some noobs will get the best items in one week. I know people who played hundreds (even thousands) of hours without getting that one extremely rare item (wow for an example) and that really sucks. I don't see how this new tier is any different.
TL:DR: I expect the devs to add upgrades in a more interesting manner like upgrading systems that are tied in with GR for an example and not just increase the stats on items and make them a bit rarer.
I have a sash of knives without the new legendary affix which sucks btw. I'd prefer the increased ~50% damage for FOK over it anyday.
Besides, I don't think they would touch any of the viable or mostly used orange legendaries so there really isn't much difference if you had to farm the improved ones after patch. (l.e. crudest boots, depth of diggers)
also, not like you'd automatically get ancient versions :/
I agree that I wish D3 had the more complex systems in place for manipulating gear. As an old school PC gamer, I have an appreciation for the minutia of having to research itemization charts etc. I have an appreciation for extra steps needed in order to upgrade. But players these days, it's no wonder things have been simplified. Look at how many players @Bnet are throwing a fit about RnG layers.
Imagine if you needed all those steps that made Ethereal items applicable for use/upgrade for Ancients? You'd have Bnet exploding with complaints about the extra "layers of RnG".
The thing is; When I read your post I can't get a bead on you. I can't tell if you want layers of RnG, or if you hate them? Myself, I like it. I want RnG to stay healthy in D3 and provide us with variation. I want items to feel "special" and when granted a great roll on an ultra-rare item, I want something I can be proud of, something that stands out. RnG drives this factor. IT is the feast and famine that makes Diablo games appeal to me.
I honestly don't think anyone ever ever ever did that. Legit, no mods, no hack, no bot, no dupes, no trades, I cannot fathom that this was ever accomplished. If you were stranded on a desert Island for 14 years with a laptop and a copy of D2, perhaps. Probably not though.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
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Why is it BS? It's one of the best things they can do.
My thinking at least is: New Barb set to use Rend/WW, and Skull Grasp (WW being a fan favorite and on every players wish list since the killing of Perma Wrath Barb) - Awesome
Up to 30% stronger Maximus or Furnace (If you are lucky enough to get more than one in your life time), with RNG on top of RNG, uninspired solution.
Why do you think it's a great thing?
And of course they're also slowly but surely adding interesting legendary effects to all the items that don't have one. So really we're getting best of both worlds.
You say you want something to feel special, to be proud of, and yet it was something you got lucky and ended up with....those feelings to me are attributed to something I pursued deliberately and worked towards with a plan in mind and a visible goal. RNG doesn't impart that on me. I just feel "lucky".
That said, I do like the Ancient announcement , I can see it's a step forward for the GRifts, and a necessary step due to time and financial constraints on a nonsubscription based game. I get it, but special?
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
WHATS NEW?
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As for your "more builds and use use skills that are not viable today": There will never be more builds. There will be different builds. Once there is a new build (using items or skills not viable today), the other builds will not be used anymore because not viable (Example? Show me 1 wizard that had all sets and was seriously playing firebird in 2.0, everyone was archon. Now show me 1 wizard with all sets available that is still going archon in 2.1 after firebird set buff. Yes, new build, non viable skills being used, but still only 1 build and new non viable skill: archon).
Why do I think it is great? In 2.0, I managed to gear up a character with BIS items, playing another char and gambling on the wanted char, in 10-20 hours (I might have been lucky, but did it with barb, sader and wiz). In 2.1, I had the full DH set the second day of season, and completed all 3 monk sets after 30 hours playtime on my monk (not powerlevelled!). Since I'm not for competition (leaderboard) but like the grind for perfect items, the game is almost done for me. Any upgrade I find when I have the right item, is so small, it does not motivate me to play. Having hundreds/thousands of hours on a char to have around 1000 more mainstat that someone that played 20 hours (low vs high roll is about 80-90 difference, on 13 items, nobody has perfect low rolls on everything) is sad.
Adding a new tier, with better rolls and low drop chance, give the option to complete your set quick (with the "normal" items) so you have a working build, while rewarding the people that really grind for the best items.
It's the RNG on top of RNG (as you call it) that makes it attracktive for me. It might be a bit uninspired, it will not fix any problems (but as I said, nothing will fix the 1 build problem, you can even say that super rare items add more played builds into the game, because you have to play something until you get that super rare item), but it is a step to promote farming and another form of end game.
To which I counter; As opposed to what? I traded for this? My rich buddy gave this to me? I bought this with my credit card?
Yeah, I earned this. I started with a few potions, a crappy sword, a crappy shield, I walked down that road to old Tristram after some great time, I killed a motherfucker and took THIS from it.
If no pride is garnered from luck, then from what exactly would an item in Diablo be garnered with pride? Luck is the byproduct of effort.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You are right about the caps, but I don't completely agree with the "discussing" part. Some do, but most things that I read is that people dislike the RNG, and even more a (hidden) complaint they don't have the gear they want now, and it will become even harder.
There are 2 ways to give items: either RNG drops, or at some fixed "points" (Even those points would be RNG in most cases. Certain amount of xp? Not all mobs are same amount of XP, some are harder to kill, ... Trade for something else that drops, basically "buy" it with a new currency? When will it drop? Only way to not make that random is to do it at a fixed place and time...).
So people are complaining about RNG in an RNG based game, that is made to grind for the perfect items (and now sadly has leaderboards, resulting in people having an argument why they "need" all those best items, but that part is not the core of the game).
This would be awesome, and would necessitate cash...there are constrictions here I'm sure, and no, we aren't privy t them but some capitalistic common sense should be applied when trying to see all points of view.
And to be fair, you said "want". I get it.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?