Its been my experience that on t 6 group play if you EVER get a level with anarchs/exarchs/archers/executioners its best to just leave the game then try to clear 1 pack for literately 40 minutes. I had a game with 2 anarch elite packs just the other day, we were working on this pack for over an hour and every time i ressed "as a witch doctor jade harvester build" i would literally be 1 shotted before i could even apply my dots. I am paragon 500 and have 500k hp with zombie dogs which is 40% damage reduction + talents. please voice your concerns people so blizzard will maybe do something about this and fix it. Group play on t6 is unbearable with this level in the game and takes upwards of 4 hours to clear 1 level if you can get lucky enough to clear it all.
You mean you ran into a challenge and you want it "fixed"?
The game needs extreme challenges to give people something to aim for. Sorry your efficiency took a hit, but this game shouldn't be adjusted with efficiency in mind.
a challenge would be a pack that you can eventually kill with the best gear, sometimes and most of the time this level is impossible to clear. so yeah call me crazy but i want a challenge that is at least doable in t 6 group play without a unity.
you guys arent listening to what im saying your just disagreeing because thats always what people do on forums. this level is usally a very dense area. therofore theres severel elite packs at once, sometimes up to 3 or 4 elite packs at once with exuctioners that 1 shot you and anarchs that charge you and also 1 shot you and theres poison nova, ice, lasers, and lightning orbs then its litertly unclearable with the best gear in the game and whatever charcter builds you choose. end of story. i was in a game last night and i play with all top geared friends. we all have over 500-600k hp with high toughness and were getting 1 shotted before we can do damage. is that a challenge or an impossible mission? i think both. Not to mention if your in a group you dont have unity, yeah what might be a challenge is actually an impossible task with unity..its gamebreaking. im talking strictly grouplay t 6.
which is less experience and legendaries. and why should we have to? we can all solo anything on t 6 except group play with 4 or 5 anarch/excutioner elite packs. so what your saying is its okay that group play is impossible in some scenarios on t 6? thats completly fine that people have to remake the game and waste there keystones/shards/time again and again meanwhile soloing t 6 is a joke? i think most people that group play in t 6 would agree, nerf unity or nerf these sets of mobs so t 6 is actually doable in all scenarios. or better yet! just separate the mobs more so that it doesn't become impossible.
you guys arent listening to what im saying your just disagreeing because thats always what people do on forums. this level is usally a very dense area. therofore theres severel elite packs at once, sometimes up to 3 or 4 elite packs at once with exuctioners that 1 shot you and anarchs that charge you and also 1 shot you and theres poison nova, ice, lasers, and lightning orbs then its litertly unclearable with the best gear in the game and whatever charcter builds you choose. end of story. i was in a game last night and i play with all top geared friends. we all have over 500-600k hp with high toughness and were getting 1 shotted before we can do damage. is that a challenge or an impossible mission? i think both. Not to mention if your in a group you dont have unity, yeah what might be a challenge is actually an impossible task with unity..its gamebreaking. im talking strictly grouplay t 6.
When I get 1 shotted.....my character dies and I lose all my gear.
I keep the Torment level in a challenging, yet doable range....typically T2-T3. When I'm geared to a point where T3 doesn't present an appreciable challenge, I'll raise it to T4.
When they fire up tiered rifts, you're in for a shock on T6. If you think what T6 rifts offer you now is a bitch....just wait. It'll get worse.
If you are getting one shotted then you are not geared for that difficulty. Tone it done or change some gear and skills around. T6 should never be a cake walk and should always have a challenge even from the trash mobs. Farming should be done at the lower torments.
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thats the problem. t 6 should be a challnge on single player, but its not, its turned into a grind for gear and exp just like lower level torments. hell i can solo t 6 with ease over and over. but without unity, not so easy, and adding multiple elite packs at once without unity. not going to happen, however, if your wearing a unityyyyyy, very doable. my complaint isnt just about the anarch level being to crowded with elite mobs to the point where its unclearable, its also about unity. why should i be forced to solo t 6 when i have friends that play the game as well? so essentially what it comes down to is, you get less expeirence with friends because you cant do the higher torments efficiently even with the best gear. when i say efficently i mean not running into huge packs that are literately unkillable. Also its not that i get 1 shotted, its i cant get my dogs out for 40% damage reduction before i die when theres 4 blue elite packs running around 2-3 shotting people very quickly.
PS: the experience bonus for being in a group is very little compared to the expeirence bonus for playing at a higher torment
We have the best in slot on almost every piece on all 4 toons. and yes we do rifts in 6-8 minutes as well, sometimes way less. is it more exp? no...not even close, you get 10% extra exp for each character near you, thats 30%. torment 5 is 1150% torment 6 is 1600%. so no..if you hafta play on torment 5 because you keep running in these annoying 3 - 5 elite packs at once and they are excutioner/anarchs....then no....no its not more exp in a group. not even CLOSE. and when you get unlucky and have to remake the game 2 out of 10 games because theres 20 elite mobs running around with ice, lightning orbs, lasers, poison nova and illusionists..i think i made my point.
We have the best in slot on almost every piece on all 4 toons. and yes we do rifts in 6-8 minutes as well, sometimes way less. is it more exp? no...not even close, you get 10% extra exp for each character near you, thats 30%. torment 5 is 1150% torment 6 is 1600%. so no..if you hafta play on torment 5 because you keep running in these annoying 3 - 5 elite packs at once and they are excutioner/anarchs....then no....no its not more exp in a group. not even CLOSE. and when you get unlucky and have to remake the game 2 out of 10 games because theres 20 elite mobs running around with ice, lightning orbs, lasers, poison nova and illusionists..i think i made my point.
I have NEVER remade a game because the packs are to dense. As a matter of fact, I embrace such experiences.
You need to realize that different players seek different experiences from Diablo. For you to ask for the hard stuff to get nerfed is an affront to many players.
You are cowering. A fact you must come to terms with. A softcore, soft-belly player....cowering. Please, do continue embarrassing yourself so.
im not saying that this happens all the time. but yes in some cases there is to many elite packs stacked on top of each other at once, and if that werent hard enough theres mobs that are literally homing "anarchs"...which was my initial complaint. forums have turned into a place to shun and disagree i understand that. "the skys blue...no its red damnit!" but there are people out there that are experiencing this even if its not you. ive literately been in games where there is hundreds of mobs and elites covering your whole screen and if you try to kill it usually you die before you can do a decent amount of damage. Would i like them to nerf mobs that have a homing affect that you cant dodge? yes, what fun is dying before you have a chance to kill anything. also different classes have a different amount of survival. on my barbarian i can leap in and out of elite packs and be fine, on my witch doctor i die before i can do much. just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. in fact there are some classes that specialize in killing large packs like that. however i play with 2 witch doctors "jade harvestor, a wizard, and a demon hunter. We dont have the same survival as other classes therefore we do get stuck on t 6 packs that are cramed with elites + other mobs. does that mean we should have to remake our characters after getting close to the best gear in the game to classes that can survive better? well id hope thats not the case but as of right now it truely is.
The game needs extreme challenges to give people something to aim for.
I think those "extreme" challenges shouldn't result from randomly-generated monster combinations, though.
I zoned into an Act 5 graveyard map this afternoon and IMMEDIATELY had four rare packs aggro'd on me. That's an "extreme" challenge, but it's also complete bullshit like that which keeps me from ever bothering with HC. What the hell fun is there if I'm so afraid of stupid shit like that creeping up that I purposely play on lower difficulties? Why should such massive variance exist in the first place? Is the game actually better because you can get screwed over by something like that? I don't think so.
What I'm saying is that tiered rifts and such are better challenges because you, generally, can opt-in to them. It's not particularly fun to go from packs of zombies which can't hurt you if they try to packs of Corrupted Angels that charge your face into the ground from off-screen. What is the point of a DIFFICULTY SLIDER if T3 Corrupted Angels are more difficult than T4 zombies? The whole idea of selectable difficulties implies that T2 is across-the-board harder than T1, etc. Otherwise what's the point?
I think you hit the 'nail on its head' when you said that the core issue is: how much variance within the same difficulty setting should the game have?
The OP says the variance is too big for his liking and hurts group play and others say: it's fine just deal with it.
Personally I lean towards the OP: My preference for end game play like rifts would be that they should not vary in difficulty (per setting) to the extend they do now.
I don't have a problem with T6 being hard and only doable with mostly BIS items in many slots and suitably tailored specs and stat allocations. I have a problem if it is unpredictable if you can do it or not based on the RNG that generates the rift you are about to enter. Clearly some variance is fine and uniformity becomes boring. What is the correct balance between predictability and variability? There isn't one. Each of us will have a different view on what challenges the game should present so his or her enjoyment of the game is maximized.
The game needs extreme challenges to give people something to aim for.
I think those "extreme" challenges shouldn't result from randomly-generated monster combinations, though.
Predictability is an open door to monotony.
When selecting our difficulty slider, one should bear in mind these worst-case scenarios. I don't see such disparity in pack types as being so threatening. Why not? Because I'm ready for it. I have to be or I lose my 4 piece Akkhan, Thundfury and SoJ...permanently. If I get in trouble, Iron Skin, Bottomless potion of the tower.... switch to homing pads (stored in bag) and I'm out. Gives me time to rethink, though I only had to utilize this once when my smoke alarm went off inexplicably during group play.
Let's take stock of the absurdity of the OP's complaints. He's complaining about the difficulty of the games most daunting difficulty setting. Inherently backward, is it not? If the most difficult setting doesn't step up with variation in pack types, monster type power/ability, than I ask you....what's the point? It is this variation toward a sudden uptempo in difficulty within the same game that checks you, as a player.
When y'all set difficulty, do so with these Anarchs etc in mind (worst case scenario). I do, and haven't lost a character to legit death for a very long time, despite playing on respectable difficulties.
Let's be respectful of the fact that different players want different things from their Diablo. Some don't want a sudden spike in difficulty that stresses their char too much....many others do. If such things are that much of a concern, turn the difficulty down. Those whom want to have that pinnacle of difficulty shouldn't have such taken from them because others wanted max XP on T6 (something the OP stated was his reason for having such a setting in the first place).
I had a t6 rift on my WD like this solo... was super annoying due to the amount of knockback and getting charged from off-screen, but it was doable. If you play WD just need to be quick hitting spirit walk when getting charged. Even 2 or 3 packs of exarchs charging at once is survivable if you are paying attention. Also I did this on a pet doctor and those mobs destroy pets, involves a lot of re-position and awareness.
Let's take stock of the absurdity of the OP's complaints. He's complaining about the difficulty of the games most daunting difficulty setting.
I don't think that's actually what he's complaining about.
I think, in a roundabout manner, he's complaining about the massive difference in difficulty between a skeleton (or a lacuni, or a boggit) and the monsters he mentioned. There is a difference and attempting to mis-categorize what he's saying doesn't really help a discussion, it just fosters an argument.
The "pinnacle of difficulty" should be determined by placing the game on T6... not by a small subset of monsters that are significantly harder than everything else. Besides, as others have mentioned, you can't really have TIERED RIFTS if the general monster difficulty isn't similar across-the-board. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? When you get to that new tier you haven't conquered yet.... and then you find the hardest monster types in the game... and your friend has boggits and skeletons... that's not really a fair point of competition.
some ppl forget that diablo is not only gears & skills/spells but also ur skill in handling the mouse, moving the character, choosing the best time to atk & defend, and the most important is learn every monster characteristic and how to counter them.. t6 is best suited for players that aim not only to have all BiS gear and best build but also to hone their skills in playing the character, which usually overlook in PvE but is one of important aspect in PvP
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The game needs extreme challenges to give people something to aim for. Sorry your efficiency took a hit, but this game shouldn't be adjusted with efficiency in mind.
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If I was designing the game no one would be able to do T1 yet.
I keep the Torment level in a challenging, yet doable range....typically T2-T3. When I'm geared to a point where T3 doesn't present an appreciable challenge, I'll raise it to T4.
When they fire up tiered rifts, you're in for a shock on T6. If you think what T6 rifts offer you now is a bitch....just wait. It'll get worse.
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If you are getting one shotted then you are not geared for that difficulty. Tone it done or change some gear and skills around. T6 should never be a cake walk and should always have a challenge even from the trash mobs. Farming should be done at the lower torments.
PS: the experience bonus for being in a group is very little compared to the expeirence bonus for playing at a higher torment
You need to realize that different players seek different experiences from Diablo. For you to ask for the hard stuff to get nerfed is an affront to many players.
You are cowering. A fact you must come to terms with. A softcore, soft-belly player....cowering. Please, do continue embarrassing yourself so.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I zoned into an Act 5 graveyard map this afternoon and IMMEDIATELY had four rare packs aggro'd on me. That's an "extreme" challenge, but it's also complete bullshit like that which keeps me from ever bothering with HC. What the hell fun is there if I'm so afraid of stupid shit like that creeping up that I purposely play on lower difficulties? Why should such massive variance exist in the first place? Is the game actually better because you can get screwed over by something like that? I don't think so.
What I'm saying is that tiered rifts and such are better challenges because you, generally, can opt-in to them. It's not particularly fun to go from packs of zombies which can't hurt you if they try to packs of Corrupted Angels that charge your face into the ground from off-screen. What is the point of a DIFFICULTY SLIDER if T3 Corrupted Angels are more difficult than T4 zombies? The whole idea of selectable difficulties implies that T2 is across-the-board harder than T1, etc. Otherwise what's the point?
I think you hit the 'nail on its head' when you said that the core issue is: how much variance within the same difficulty setting should the game have?
The OP says the variance is too big for his liking and hurts group play and others say: it's fine just deal with it.
Personally I lean towards the OP: My preference for end game play like rifts would be that they should not vary in difficulty (per setting) to the extend they do now.
I don't have a problem with T6 being hard and only doable with mostly BIS items in many slots and suitably tailored specs and stat allocations. I have a problem if it is unpredictable if you can do it or not based on the RNG that generates the rift you are about to enter. Clearly some variance is fine and uniformity becomes boring. What is the correct balance between predictability and variability? There isn't one. Each of us will have a different view on what challenges the game should present so his or her enjoyment of the game is maximized.
When selecting our difficulty slider, one should bear in mind these worst-case scenarios. I don't see such disparity in pack types as being so threatening. Why not? Because I'm ready for it. I have to be or I lose my 4 piece Akkhan, Thundfury and SoJ...permanently. If I get in trouble, Iron Skin, Bottomless potion of the tower.... switch to homing pads (stored in bag) and I'm out. Gives me time to rethink, though I only had to utilize this once when my smoke alarm went off inexplicably during group play.
Let's take stock of the absurdity of the OP's complaints. He's complaining about the difficulty of the games most daunting difficulty setting. Inherently backward, is it not? If the most difficult setting doesn't step up with variation in pack types, monster type power/ability, than I ask you....what's the point? It is this variation toward a sudden uptempo in difficulty within the same game that checks you, as a player.
When y'all set difficulty, do so with these Anarchs etc in mind (worst case scenario). I do, and haven't lost a character to legit death for a very long time, despite playing on respectable difficulties.
Let's be respectful of the fact that different players want different things from their Diablo. Some don't want a sudden spike in difficulty that stresses their char too much....many others do. If such things are that much of a concern, turn the difficulty down. Those whom want to have that pinnacle of difficulty shouldn't have such taken from them because others wanted max XP on T6 (something the OP stated was his reason for having such a setting in the first place).
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I think, in a roundabout manner, he's complaining about the massive difference in difficulty between a skeleton (or a lacuni, or a boggit) and the monsters he mentioned. There is a difference and attempting to mis-categorize what he's saying doesn't really help a discussion, it just fosters an argument.
The "pinnacle of difficulty" should be determined by placing the game on T6... not by a small subset of monsters that are significantly harder than everything else. Besides, as others have mentioned, you can't really have TIERED RIFTS if the general monster difficulty isn't similar across-the-board. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? When you get to that new tier you haven't conquered yet.... and then you find the hardest monster types in the game... and your friend has boggits and skeletons... that's not really a fair point of competition.