I've had crappy weapons for alternates roll sockets time and time again after only a couple rolls. I've spent about 25 Forgotten Souls trying to get a socket on a 2-hander that I found for my Crusader, and another 10 today trying to get a socket on a Serpent Sparker for my Wiz. Didn't get it on either.
So newsflash: RNG is RNG. More at 11.
Or if you wanna actually discuss whether there's some influence or bad coding there, we're gonna need some real and extensive data (either from datamining or long term data gathering), not random blabbing.
Thats all this guy does on the forums is spout random nonsense -.- getting tired of seeing his posts on the front page
If Blizzard wants me to test and gather data samples they can give me a testing account with unlimited mats and gold. Due to the mats and gold required no one is going to be a able to make a good enough to sample size to satisfy the "RNG is RNG" crowd that is basically taking over the thread. You're using more words, but that is essentially what you are saying. Also as in my above anecdote, bugs don't always affect everyone.
Except that you're already using enchanting, along with pretty much everyone else here. If you jot down your results, and a bunch of other people jot down their results, it's easy get to a useful sample size pretty damn quickly. On top of that, you can also identify outliers with increasing confidence, which turn could point to an actual bug. OTOH, if you don't record your actual results, and just make forum posts about your bad luck, it's impossible to tell if there's an actual problem, and what it might be, and all we're left with is the self same kvetching about RNG that's been going on since the first time anyone ever gambled.
I was shocked and disappointed when I found out that "enchanting" is really just WoW's version of reforging...and even then it's not even that.
I want to take stat A and convert it to stat B. No rng BS.
The mystic in her current form, is a huge let down, and is absolutely worthless.
By using the expression "absolutely worthless" you're deeming her as useful for nothing. Like nothing at all. Like not even in a single situation, ever.
So I guess all the 11 pieces of gear that I'm using, were not made more powerful and fitting to my build by enchanting, since that's not possible if she's worthless (in absolute terms). I think I'm also going to throw away the 5-6 items that I have stored in my stash that could be amazing if one of their stats is rerolled into something else. Because you know, enchanting is worthless and I can't get anything out of it.
So yeah, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Specially not because we just want things handed to us instead of actually putting some effort into getting it.
I was shocked and disappointed when I found out that "enchanting" is really just WoW's version of reforging...and even then it's not even that.
I want to take stat A and convert it to stat B. No rng BS.
The mystic in her current form, is a huge let down, and is absolutely worthless.
It's the exact opposite of worthless as it can actually make non-optimal items used for something other than salvaging, and just requires sufficient gold to take advantage of. Some amount of RNG should be expected in a game like this, and in the end the only thing it costs you is gold.
I was shocked and disappointed when I found out that "enchanting" is really just WoW's version of reforging...and even then it's not even that.
I want to take stat A and convert it to stat B. No rng BS.
The mystic in her current form, is a huge let down, and is absolutely worthless.
By using the expression "absolutely worthless" you're deeming her as useful for nothing. Like nothing at all. Like not even in a single situation, ever.
So I guess all the 11 pieces of gear that I'm using, were not made more powerful and fitting to my build by enchanting, since that's not possible if she's worthless (in absolute terms). I think I'm also going to throw away the 5-6 items that I have stored in my stash that could be amazing if one of their stats is rerolled into something else. Because you know, enchanting is worthless and I can't get anything out of it.
So yeah, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Specially not because we just want things handed to us instead of actually putting some effort into getting it.
To me yes, worthless. I've burned through almost 5 million gold, and mats playing with her, and never did get the desired stats.
It comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. The Mystic's current cost, is not worth the benefit she provides. I have no aspirations to ever play the game beyond T2 or T3, so I'm not going to grind gold for hours to squeeze a little bit more dps out of my character. That was why I quit the game before patch 2.0, because, to me, the game was just grinding gold, and buying upgrades on the AH since no usable gear ever dropped.
And I will say again, since you couldn't pick up on it earlier, this is obviously how I feel in regards to me and my play style. My views are not necessarily shared (obviously) with others.
As for the typical childish teenage comeback of you "just want things handed to you" line..I would have no problems paying a set price of say 500,000 gold for one "enchant" if it meant there were no RNG. If you are unaware, it takes time and work to get that 500k gold, FYI.
The original loot system just pulled a set of affixes randomly from a list where each affix had an equal probability of occurring. The current "smart" loot system just weights certain affixes (ex: primary stat, vitality) heavier than others. The mystic appears to use the same "smart" selection mechanism, so if you're attempting to reroll away from one of the higher weight affixes then it'll occur in the list at a higher frequency.
In other words, "random" does not imply uniform, and the "smart" system was made smart by skewing the distribution away from uniform. The end result is a more painful rerolling process.
It's not random, and I've seen it show the same thing over and over again sometimes showing the same thing as the only choice but with different stats and both those choices are the one you're trying to change.
As for the typical childish teenage comeback of you "just want things handed to you" line..I would have no problems paying a set price of say 500,000 gold for one "enchant" if it meant there were no RNG. If you are unaware, it takes time and work to get that 500k gold, FYI.
You're right... it takes about 5 minutes to get that gold via setting the difficulty to torment 6 and running through a couple of places in the Cemetary in act 1. You don't even have to kill anything.
The fact of the matter is that enchanting hasn't proven useful for you YET. For me? I've improved probably every single piece of gear I'm wearing and most of them were done within 1-2 enchants. You know what that tells me? It's not worthless. In fact, it's not worthless for you, either. You're just raging because you tried a few times and didn't get what you wanted. Boo hoo.
I was shocked and disappointed when I found out that "enchanting" is really just WoW's version of reforging...and even then it's not even that.
I want to take stat A and convert it to stat B. No rng BS.
The mystic in her current form, is a huge let down, and is absolutely worthless.
By using the expression "absolutely worthless" you're deeming her as useful for nothing. Like nothing at all. Like not even in a single situation, ever.
So I guess all the 11 pieces of gear that I'm using, were not made more powerful and fitting to my build by enchanting, since that's not possible if she's worthless (in absolute terms). I think I'm also going to throw away the 5-6 items that I have stored in my stash that could be amazing if one of their stats is rerolled into something else. Because you know, enchanting is worthless and I can't get anything out of it.
So yeah, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Specially not because we just want things handed to us instead of actually putting some effort into getting it.
To me yes, worthless. I've burned through almost 5 million gold, and mats playing with her, and never did get the desired stats.
It comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. The Mystic's current cost, is not worth the benefit she provides "so far for me".
I only removed the remainder of your post to make this part stand out more as I think this is the bigger issue rather than the actual RNG of the Mystic. As others have and will say, RNG is RNG, and spending 5 million gold and not getting anything out of it sucks, but you're certainly in the minority if that's the case. I've easily spend double that on leveling characters alone and find it more than worth it for the socket or damage % that I prefer for the way I play. So yes, so far it's worthless for you, but that's due to bad RNG and your decision to not be fully optimized.
Just to add, there's nothing wrong with you deciding to play in this manner and not use the Mystic because it's not as beneficial to you. However it is wrong to completely disregard enchanting as a whole based on your personal play style and decisions alone.
How exactly is it impossible to gather? The person you're complaining about listed his own experiences which, correct me if I am wrong, qualifies as gathering information.
The quickest way to get a large chunk of the playerbase to stop paying attention to the things you say is to accuse them (or others) of showing unwarranted favoritism towards Blizzard. In other words, you just ruined any point you were hoping to make. Good job.
I feel that it should not be able to give you two versions (exact or slightly different numbers) of the same affix. For example, 2 hatred generation affixes should not result on an enchant. There should be an option of your current and two different new affixes. If I am rolling for a socket and keep getting the hatred generation and cost reduction as my new options, over and over again, then I am fine with that.
I am at 800k+ on my windforce, rolling for a socket. I am about to give up and just start working on another bow I have that is a 2% or so decrease in damage, just so I can attempt for a socket for a lot cheaper.
ITT, people complain that a random process doesn't give them what they want when they expect it without knowing exactly how long it took or if their expectations are reasonable.
I feel that it should not be able to give you two versions (exact or slightly different numbers) of the same affix. For example, 2 hatred generation affixes should not result on an enchant. There should be an option of your current and two different new affixes. If I am rolling for a socket and keep getting the hatred generation and cost reduction as my new options, over and over again, then I am fine with that.
I am at 800k+ on my windforce, rolling for a socket. I am about to give up and just start working on another bow I have that is a 2% or so decrease in damage, just so I can attempt for a socket for a lot cheaper.
OTOH, imagine if you were looking for CHD and rolled it twice... you now get to pick the highest value Having said that, double-rolling is a crappy user experience, and trivial to eliminate... I'd like to see Blizzard getting rid of it, and the socket situation is a whole other thing which contributes to the problem... but this thread is too toxic to have a rational discussion about improving enchanting.
I feel that it should not be able to give you two versions (exact or slightly different numbers) of the same affix. For example, 2 hatred generation affixes should not result on an enchant. There should be an option of your current and two different new affixes. If I am rolling for a socket and keep getting the hatred generation and cost reduction as my new options, over and over again, then I am fine with that.
I am at 800k+ on my windforce, rolling for a socket. I am about to give up and just start working on another bow I have that is a 2% or so decrease in damage, just so I can attempt for a socket for a lot cheaper.
OTOH, imagine if you were looking for CHD and rolled it twice... you now get to pick the highest value Having said that, double-rolling is a crappy user experience, and trivial to eliminate... I'd like to see Blizzard getting rid of it, and the socket situation is a whole other thing which contributes to the problem... but this thread is too toxic to have a rational discussion about improving enchanting.
I like toast.
I agree and I have had that happened, but I would give up that chance for more "random" choices that are not just different values.
5 million gold and mats without getting any desireable stats? Or not getting the specific, the exact affix that you wanted rolled at max (aka 100% crit dmg)?
Because if it's the first, that doesn't sound legit, at all. And udging from how many on the clan are using enchanted gear, I'm sure every other player here doesn't share that kind of perspective.
And sorry if I don't believe that claim. It's only becauseI've personally seen the Mystic mechanics at work with least 100 million gold and probably 60+ hours (with beta and live RoS). It simply doesn't sound true at all.
Your post made it sound like a couple million gold and a few enchanting tries are "too much" for you. Too expensive. The Mystic cost is perfectly in line with how much power she provides. I can easily say my character is 50% more powerful than she should be because of the Mystic (DPS and Toughness-wise). I've actually used a dozen+ items that would have been garbage because of the Mystic. So yeah, your second post pretty much confirms that you want things handed more easily, either through much lowered costs or through the removal of RNG (which again, lowers the cost for getting what you want). Again, an opinion I do not share.
I think it's perfectly possible that the different affixes do not all have equal likelihood of rolling.
But if you're going to throw a tantrum, pre-emptively insult people, and not only fail to provide any recorded numbers of stat roll frequencies but actively refuse to even consider doing so because it's not your job, then I'm going to assume that the latter of these two possibilities is more likely to be correct:
Different affixes do not all have equal likelihood of rolling
To whoever that claims the RNG is broken, please do a statistical test. First, clarify your hypothesis. Maybe you think that certain affixes roll more than others (which may well be true), or that the same affix but different rolls are more likely to occur? State your hypothesis here in this forum, make the appropriate calculations to determine the number of test needed for your confidence interval (the number of test normally shouldn't need to be too large, no more than a couple dozens usually, though it has been a while since I took a stats course), then test it after telling us what you are going to test. Just complaining on the forums do not offer any proof. More importantly, it gives Blizzard no information on how to fix it, and no information on how to abuse it. (ex. If primary stat rolls are much more likely, then you probably want to start off enchanting something with other desirable stats like CC and CHD but missing primary stat, then one with primary but no CC or CHD)
Also, even if all events are not weighted equally (which very well may be true, looking at say D2's affix frequency tables), it does not mean that "RNG is RNG" is false. Winning the lottery is random, even if it is very far from uniformly random.
A quote I read from reddit a few days ago: “There is a correct amount of people complaining on the forums for a game to be properly random”
P.S. Enchant is a god send at lower levels, when you are fresh out of lvl 70. You weren't so picky about stats, and you were happy with a trifecta, any trifecta. It helps you gear up for T1 that much faster.
Can we please limit this guys amount of posts per week? He just picks basic stuff and complains about it all the time, I've seen 5 of his topics on the main page before. To answer your problem here..... You are complaining that you keep rolling +Experience instead of a useful stat. No one has pointed this out (remarkably) but you should study the system before you complain about it. If you are rolling monster experience then you are trying to reroll a secondary stat, which doesn't have many great option. Please stop posting.
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I want to take stat A and convert it to stat B. No rng BS.
The mystic in her current form, is a huge let down, and is absolutely worthless.
So I guess all the 11 pieces of gear that I'm using, were not made more powerful and fitting to my build by enchanting, since that's not possible if she's worthless (in absolute terms). I think I'm also going to throw away the 5-6 items that I have stored in my stash that could be amazing if one of their stats is rerolled into something else. Because you know, enchanting is worthless and I can't get anything out of it.
So yeah, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Specially not because we just want things handed to us instead of actually putting some effort into getting it.
To me yes, worthless. I've burned through almost 5 million gold, and mats playing with her, and never did get the desired stats.
It comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. The Mystic's current cost, is not worth the benefit she provides. I have no aspirations to ever play the game beyond T2 or T3, so I'm not going to grind gold for hours to squeeze a little bit more dps out of my character. That was why I quit the game before patch 2.0, because, to me, the game was just grinding gold, and buying upgrades on the AH since no usable gear ever dropped.
And I will say again, since you couldn't pick up on it earlier, this is obviously how I feel in regards to me and my play style. My views are not necessarily shared (obviously) with others.
As for the typical childish teenage comeback of you "just want things handed to you" line..I would have no problems paying a set price of say 500,000 gold for one "enchant" if it meant there were no RNG. If you are unaware, it takes time and work to get that 500k gold, FYI.
In other words, "random" does not imply uniform, and the "smart" system was made smart by skewing the distribution away from uniform. The end result is a more painful rerolling process.
It's not random, and I've seen it show the same thing over and over again sometimes showing the same thing as the only choice but with different stats and both those choices are the one you're trying to change.
Just feels bugged or broken the way it works.
The fact of the matter is that enchanting hasn't proven useful for you YET. For me? I've improved probably every single piece of gear I'm wearing and most of them were done within 1-2 enchants. You know what that tells me? It's not worthless. In fact, it's not worthless for you, either. You're just raging because you tried a few times and didn't get what you wanted. Boo hoo.
Just to add, there's nothing wrong with you deciding to play in this manner and not use the Mystic because it's not as beneficial to you. However it is wrong to completely disregard enchanting as a whole based on your personal play style and decisions alone.
The quickest way to get a large chunk of the playerbase to stop paying attention to the things you say is to accuse them (or others) of showing unwarranted favoritism towards Blizzard. In other words, you just ruined any point you were hoping to make. Good job.
I am at 800k+ on my windforce, rolling for a socket. I am about to give up and just start working on another bow I have that is a 2% or so decrease in damage, just so I can attempt for a socket for a lot cheaper.
I like toast.
I prefer bagels.
Because if it's the first, that doesn't sound legit, at all. And udging from how many on the clan are using enchanted gear, I'm sure every other player here doesn't share that kind of perspective.
And sorry if I don't believe that claim. It's only becauseI've personally seen the Mystic mechanics at work with least 100 million gold and probably 60+ hours (with beta and live RoS). It simply doesn't sound true at all.
Your post made it sound like a couple million gold and a few enchanting tries are "too much" for you. Too expensive. The Mystic cost is perfectly in line with how much power she provides. I can easily say my character is 50% more powerful than she should be because of the Mystic (DPS and Toughness-wise). I've actually used a dozen+ items that would have been garbage because of the Mystic. So yeah, your second post pretty much confirms that you want things handed more easily, either through much lowered costs or through the removal of RNG (which again, lowers the cost for getting what you want). Again, an opinion I do not share.
You want to see quantum mechanics at play? watch me fling sugar-mix onto a piece of hot buttered bread....
But if you're going to throw a tantrum, pre-emptively insult people, and not only fail to provide any recorded numbers of stat roll frequencies but actively refuse to even consider doing so because it's not your job, then I'm going to assume that the latter of these two possibilities is more likely to be correct:
To whoever that claims the RNG is broken, please do a statistical test. First, clarify your hypothesis. Maybe you think that certain affixes roll more than others (which may well be true), or that the same affix but different rolls are more likely to occur? State your hypothesis here in this forum, make the appropriate calculations to determine the number of test needed for your confidence interval (the number of test normally shouldn't need to be too large, no more than a couple dozens usually, though it has been a while since I took a stats course), then test it after telling us what you are going to test. Just complaining on the forums do not offer any proof. More importantly, it gives Blizzard no information on how to fix it, and no information on how to abuse it. (ex. If primary stat rolls are much more likely, then you probably want to start off enchanting something with other desirable stats like CC and CHD but missing primary stat, then one with primary but no CC or CHD)
Also, even if all events are not weighted equally (which very well may be true, looking at say D2's affix frequency tables), it does not mean that "RNG is RNG" is false. Winning the lottery is random, even if it is very far from uniformly random.
A quote I read from reddit a few days ago: “There is a correct amount of people complaining on the forums for a game to be properly random”
P.S. Enchant is a god send at lower levels, when you are fresh out of lvl 70. You weren't so picky about stats, and you were happy with a trifecta, any trifecta. It helps you gear up for T1 that much faster.