Everyone knows that in the Patch 2.0.1(2.0.2), every Legendaries/Set items that drop are now bound to your account and cannot trade it to anyone (just to the people that were in your game when the item dropped for 2 hours), but is it a good idea? I'm afraid that it is not a good idea at all. Mainly because Diablo has always been a trading game, like every ARPG games. Trading rare/magical items is still possible, but what's the point if the Legendaries are 'better' now? Might as well just remove the whole trading system instead. I think removing the Auction House was the only thing Blizzard should have done to prevent people to either just sit down on their butt and just click 'Buy Now' on items that were better than theirs, it just made the life easier for the lazies and also for the people who had plenty of bots. I've had tons of legendaries so far and most of them weren't just for me and many of my friends looked at the Clan log when they would log in and they would be like 'damn it would've been good for me' yup.. it would, sadly, I can't trade it to you. Talking about clan, what's the purpose of making a clan if we don't get anything out of it? Might as well be able to trade items between clan members, which would still prevent a lot of 3rd party trading websites to get something out of it and we would still be able to trade to our friends and whatnot. Yes, there will be people selling slots into their clans so they can sell the items their bot is getting, but what else can we do? Bot has always been a problem in every game and we can't just not allow trade for that specific reason, atleast, they got to work for it, they gotta do something, recruit people, being actually trusted. You couldn't get scammed in the Auction House, which was the reason why bots were living a dream. So after all that, should we be able to trade between clan members, or keep the Legendaries permanently under the title of ''Bound on Account''?
I wrote much more than I thought I would, my bad on this, but hope you get the point of the thread. I want your opinions guys ! And also other possible flaws of my suggested idea (which have been suggested quite a few times on Battle.Net official website, reddit and here as well).
I think the public reception of patch 2.0.1 speaks for itself - nobody misses trading. The reason why it's possible for loot to be like this is because of BoA. Otherwise a new auction house would emerge, just on a third party website somewhere.
Mainly because Diablo has always been a trading game, like every ARPG games.
No, it hasn't. Diablo I didn't even have a trade window. In Diablo II, you could trade, but plenty of people didn't. It was an aspect of the game, and may have been a lot of fun and very important to a portion of the player base, but it didn't change Diablo from an action RPG into a trading game.
Trading rare/magical items is still possible, but what's the point if the Legendaries are 'better' now? Might as well just remove the whole trading system instead.
Have you tried it? The ability to trade legendaries with people you played with is really nice. Thanks to Smart Loot, you're going to use most of the legendaries you find until you're farming at 60/70. When you get to that point, the trading possibilities are so limited that people will actually strike deals with you.
I think removing the Auction House was the only thing Blizzard should have done to prevent people to either just sit down on their butt and just click 'Buy Now' on items that were better than theirs, it just made the life easier for the lazies and also for the people who had plenty of bots.
Maybe. But I think that it would still have held them back from really being able to give players a good drop rate. If every player in the game is finding a legendary every hour or so, the market is still going to get flooded and players are still going to spend more time in the AH than in the game.
I've had tons of legendaries so far and most of them weren't just for me and many of my friends looked at the Clan log when they would log in and they would be like 'damn it would've been good for me' yup.. it would, sadly, I can't trade it to you. Talking about clan, what's the purpose of making a clan if we don't get anything out of it?
I love being able to check out what cool stuff my friends found while they were playing. It motivates me to get into the game and see what kind of cool stuff I'll find. Furthermore, clans give you a group of cool players to join up with the find and share items together. No, you can't have the items they found without you, but that's the whole point - you have to play the game yourself. You can, however, play with your clan mates and share items you find together, which is the whole point.
Might as well be able to trade items between clan members, which would still prevent a lot of 3rd party trading websites to get something out of it and we would still be able to trade to our friends and whatnot. Yes, there will be people selling slots into their clans so they can sell the items their bot is getting, but what else can we do? Bot has always been a problem in every game and we can't just not allow trade for that specific reason, atleast, they got to work for it, they gotta do something, recruit people, being actually trusted.
Bots aren't the only reason for BoA. As I said above, it's there to get you to actually play the game if you want cool items. Being able to trade with people you don't play with undermines that, because it gives you access to items without playing the game, even if they are in a clan with you.
Join a cool clan, get friendly with the members, roll with them, and share items you find together. That's the point of clans.
I still think their motivation for BoA is not "balance" but moreso "if we can't make profits on the RMAH then no one can." And, ultimately, I think that kind of decision-making is not good for any game. I simply don't believe that a studio as big as Blizzard and as well-known for being problem-solvers cannot figure out a way to allow trading without turning it into the complete fuck-fest that the AH was. To me that's like LeBron James saying "sorry guys, there was too much pressure in the NBA finals so I could only score 5 points." BITCH! YOU ARE LEBRON FUCKING JAMES.... WE EXPECT YOU TO RISE TO THE OCCASION NOT COWER LIKE A PUSSY!
I still hate it. But whatever.
I've raged enough over it and I'm kinda tired of the subject because it gets the people who think that ARPGs don't have a history in unbound loot to speak as if they're the moral majority or something. IE: discussing it makes me more angry than the actual change at this point.
daisychopper already said everything I wanted to say, especially regarding that "D3 is a trading" argument that comes up on a weekly basis. Thanks.
I think right now we can't really see how good BoA is because pre-2.0.1 gear is still key; I see many people (especially players with 300k+ DPS) still wearing 90% old gear and still roflstomping Torment 5+. This is gonna change in RoS: you need to find new gear, and you need to find it yourself, to proceed to higher Torment levels.
Now, initially I was an adversary of clan trading (rather than just group trading), but I changed my mind. Seeing how ridiculously many items drop "per minute" in an active clan like DFans, clan trading would just do the same that AH trading did: it would create an almost-perfect gear distribution system; nothing goes to waste and your personal progress is not based on what you find, but it's more like a "clan progress". I feel like I'm the only one who hasn't found Thunderfury yet, and I kind of really want it - but rather for transmog than anything else. But the longer the wait for me to get this item, the happier I will be to get it. Had someone given it to me during week 1, how can I really appreciate it's awesomeness?
Imho, BoA is a good thing, but we can't really see it just yet because 1) pre-2.0.1 gear oftentimes is still key and 2) we don't have the Mystic yet. Ask the question again in ~4 weeks or so and I'm sure many more people will agree that it's only a good thing.
@shaggy: I think in one of the playtests one of devs admitted that that was one of the huge reasons to have BoA (the dev literally said something like "we don't want 3rd party trading sites" or so). Nevertheless, the thread is not about "what is the motivation for BoA" but "is BoA a good thing". If the answer is "yes, it is a good thing" (and in my opinion it is), does it matter what the reason or Blizzard's decision-making process for that is?
I think the public reception of patch 2.0.1 speaks for itself - nobody misses trading. The reason why it's possible for loot to be like this is because of BoA. Otherwise a new auction house would emerge, just on a third party website somewhere.
Every ARPG games have a trading system, no exceptions, at all. You can farm for a thousand hours, and still not get the item you want because it's all about luck and if you have a bad luck, you trade a few good items you've gotten that is not necessary for you against that one specific item you've tried to get for hours and still didn't have it.
Mainly because Diablo has always been a trading game, like every ARPG games.
No, it hasn't. Diablo I didn't even have a trade window. In Diablo II, you could trade, but plenty of people didn't. It was an aspect of the game, and may have been a lot of fun and very important to a portion of the player base, but it didn't change Diablo from an action RPG into a trading game.
Diablo I was the first game of the series.. which is why it doesn't have everything that we wish it had. Diablo 2 had trading, and it was actually super effective. It worked. There were a lot of games ''Pul 4 Shako'' and those kind of things and they would have removed trading from there as well if it was broken and it is still in the game for more than 14 years. Trading is fine, Auction House is not. Every ARPG games you will play will have trading (PoE, Diablo, Dungeon Sieges, etc. - the list can go long). Why just allow trading at the first place if what we can trade is just useless? I am talking about rare/magical/white items. The rare items are the only one that can be good, but with the 'Smart Loot', a rare item you need is really easy to get it while the legendary you want for your specific build is not. It's always nice to know that you looted yourself X item, yes, it is but when you can't get an item for hours, things get boring and you just quit for a few hours because you're pissed you can't the item you are wanting for ages. What's the point of constantly farming if you can't get what you desire? Atleast, if you can get something that is good for another class, you can trade it to someone who has the item that YOU could use. Also, I am not saying clans are 100% useless, but they are for gameplay so might as well just put an option 'Once a friend identifies a legendary, it will be linked into the chat'. Clans are cool, yes, but what they actually bring new? Nothing. And they can actually use clan, to use a safer trading system than any games right now.
P.S.: I didn't quote the whole post since it would obviously be really long - but I've read everything. Also, sorry for the double post!
Every ARPG games you will play will have trading (PoE, Diablo, Dungeon Sieges, etc. - the list can go long).
There is no point in item binding for non-secure systems (I.E. lacking servers to store characters) because there are no real economies in such games. Legit trading never amounts to anything more than between friends or relatively small communities, and "black markets" never develop in the majority of ARPGs where you can train up anything you want instantly.
A. Increases the longevity of the game. You can't just buy the new set for your class, you have to play the game and farm for it.
B. Because you can't just buy what you want, blizzard can balance the drops a lot better. The removal of the AH and the implementation of BOA is what makes better drops like smart loot and tighter affix ranges possible. If we still had an AH and no boa, even the most causal players will be geared towards T6 in no time. Therefore the single player / group experience is enhanced.
C. Future competition. Right now the competition lies in who has the best gear / can farm the best. But I'll bet anything that ladders and possibly challenges will be put in. If there's an AH and no BoA, then some people will just buy the best gear and any sort of ladders and challenges would be dominated. I'd rather pick the choice of having farm time (actually playing the game), RNG and skill dominate ladders and the like, then someone shopping D2jsp.
@shaggy: I think in one of the playtests one of devs admitted that that was one of the huge reasons to have BoA (the dev literally said something like "we don't want 3rd party trading sites" or so). Nevertheless, the thread is not about "what is the motivation for BoA" but "is BoA a good thing". If the answer is "yes, it is a good thing" (and in my opinion it is), does it matter what the reason or Blizzard's decision-making process for that is?
Well, of course the motivation matters.
Like I said. Blizzard is the pinnacle of game development. I expect them to be able to solve problems and I don't view "no trading because we don't want 3rd party sites" to be a very innovative, creative, or reasonable solution.
There are so many benefits to BoA, of course, but to me it would have been so much better-implemented if it were the result of the mystic (and if there were more systems like that) so that players are actively choosing to remove items from circulation because they want to improve them. For instance, in addition to the mystic, why not have the ability for Covetus Shen to add sockets to items for a cost and make that also bind them (and remove sockets from rolls alltogether)?
Instead of broadly making green/orange loot BoA there should be more systems like enchanting that provide a very desireable service, require you to salvage other green/orange items (item sinks are GOOD) and permanently bind items.
I bet BoA would be infinitely more well-received if it were like that... because the players choose. Because the players have control.
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I wrote much more than I thought I would, my bad on this, but hope you get the point of the thread. I want your opinions guys ! And also other possible flaws of my suggested idea (which have been suggested quite a few times on Battle.Net official website, reddit and here as well).
No, it hasn't. Diablo I didn't even have a trade window. In Diablo II, you could trade, but plenty of people didn't. It was an aspect of the game, and may have been a lot of fun and very important to a portion of the player base, but it didn't change Diablo from an action RPG into a trading game.
Have you tried it? The ability to trade legendaries with people you played with is really nice. Thanks to Smart Loot, you're going to use most of the legendaries you find until you're farming at 60/70. When you get to that point, the trading possibilities are so limited that people will actually strike deals with you.
Maybe. But I think that it would still have held them back from really being able to give players a good drop rate. If every player in the game is finding a legendary every hour or so, the market is still going to get flooded and players are still going to spend more time in the AH than in the game.
I love being able to check out what cool stuff my friends found while they were playing. It motivates me to get into the game and see what kind of cool stuff I'll find. Furthermore, clans give you a group of cool players to join up with the find and share items together. No, you can't have the items they found without you, but that's the whole point - you have to play the game yourself. You can, however, play with your clan mates and share items you find together, which is the whole point.
Bots aren't the only reason for BoA. As I said above, it's there to get you to actually play the game if you want cool items. Being able to trade with people you don't play with undermines that, because it gives you access to items without playing the game, even if they are in a clan with you.
Join a cool clan, get friendly with the members, roll with them, and share items you find together. That's the point of clans.
I still hate it. But whatever.
I've raged enough over it and I'm kinda tired of the subject because it gets the people who think that ARPGs don't have a history in unbound loot to speak as if they're the moral majority or something. IE: discussing it makes me more angry than the actual change at this point.
I think right now we can't really see how good BoA is because pre-2.0.1 gear is still key; I see many people (especially players with 300k+ DPS) still wearing 90% old gear and still roflstomping Torment 5+. This is gonna change in RoS: you need to find new gear, and you need to find it yourself, to proceed to higher Torment levels.
Now, initially I was an adversary of clan trading (rather than just group trading), but I changed my mind. Seeing how ridiculously many items drop "per minute" in an active clan like DFans, clan trading would just do the same that AH trading did: it would create an almost-perfect gear distribution system; nothing goes to waste and your personal progress is not based on what you find, but it's more like a "clan progress". I feel like I'm the only one who hasn't found Thunderfury yet, and I kind of really want it - but rather for transmog than anything else. But the longer the wait for me to get this item, the happier I will be to get it. Had someone given it to me during week 1, how can I really appreciate it's awesomeness?
Imho, BoA is a good thing, but we can't really see it just yet because 1) pre-2.0.1 gear oftentimes is still key and 2) we don't have the Mystic yet. Ask the question again in ~4 weeks or so and I'm sure many more people will agree that it's only a good thing.
@shaggy: I think in one of the playtests one of devs admitted that that was one of the huge reasons to have BoA (the dev literally said something like "we don't want 3rd party trading sites" or so). Nevertheless, the thread is not about "what is the motivation for BoA" but "is BoA a good thing". If the answer is "yes, it is a good thing" (and in my opinion it is), does it matter what the reason or Blizzard's decision-making process for that is?
Diablo I was the first game of the series.. which is why it doesn't have everything that we wish it had. Diablo 2 had trading, and it was actually super effective. It worked. There were a lot of games ''Pul 4 Shako'' and those kind of things and they would have removed trading from there as well if it was broken and it is still in the game for more than 14 years. Trading is fine, Auction House is not. Every ARPG games you will play will have trading (PoE, Diablo, Dungeon Sieges, etc. - the list can go long). Why just allow trading at the first place if what we can trade is just useless? I am talking about rare/magical/white items. The rare items are the only one that can be good, but with the 'Smart Loot', a rare item you need is really easy to get it while the legendary you want for your specific build is not. It's always nice to know that you looted yourself X item, yes, it is but when you can't get an item for hours, things get boring and you just quit for a few hours because you're pissed you can't the item you are wanting for ages. What's the point of constantly farming if you can't get what you desire? Atleast, if you can get something that is good for another class, you can trade it to someone who has the item that YOU could use. Also, I am not saying clans are 100% useless, but they are for gameplay so might as well just put an option 'Once a friend identifies a legendary, it will be linked into the chat'. Clans are cool, yes, but what they actually bring new? Nothing. And they can actually use clan, to use a safer trading system than any games right now.
P.S.: I didn't quote the whole post since it would obviously be really long - but I've read everything. Also, sorry for the double post!
B. Because you can't just buy what you want, blizzard can balance the drops a lot better. The removal of the AH and the implementation of BOA is what makes better drops like smart loot and tighter affix ranges possible. If we still had an AH and no boa, even the most causal players will be geared towards T6 in no time. Therefore the single player / group experience is enhanced.
C. Future competition. Right now the competition lies in who has the best gear / can farm the best. But I'll bet anything that ladders and possibly challenges will be put in. If there's an AH and no BoA, then some people will just buy the best gear and any sort of ladders and challenges would be dominated. I'd rather pick the choice of having farm time (actually playing the game), RNG and skill dominate ladders and the like, then someone shopping D2jsp.
Like I said. Blizzard is the pinnacle of game development. I expect them to be able to solve problems and I don't view "no trading because we don't want 3rd party sites" to be a very innovative, creative, or reasonable solution.
There are so many benefits to BoA, of course, but to me it would have been so much better-implemented if it were the result of the mystic (and if there were more systems like that) so that players are actively choosing to remove items from circulation because they want to improve them. For instance, in addition to the mystic, why not have the ability for Covetus Shen to add sockets to items for a cost and make that also bind them (and remove sockets from rolls alltogether)?
Instead of broadly making green/orange loot BoA there should be more systems like enchanting that provide a very desireable service, require you to salvage other green/orange items (item sinks are GOOD) and permanently bind items.
I bet BoA would be infinitely more well-received if it were like that... because the players choose. Because the players have control.