Let me guess, you're an action house warrior or play on a difficulty that provides you no challenge whatsover? The thumping your chest you are trying to do really isn't impressing anyone though.
Let me guess, you're an action house warrior or play on a difficulty that provides you no challenge whatsover? The thumping your chest you are trying to do really isn't impressing anyone though.
Oh good, you've decided to call me names and make baseless assumptions about me. And here I was worried we were in danger of having a discussion.
Anyway, the difficulty I choose to play on isn't really relevant; I do try to pick one that's challenging, but that's a subjective call so I can't really compare notes with you. If I had to try, I'd say I won't play on any difficulty where I can kill monsters in 2 hits or less. It just isn't much fun that way.
For what it's worth, I'm about 50/50 on the bonus chest. The biggest factor seems to be my loadout; if I'm not using a build that stacks a lot of AoE skills, I usually only get to wave 2 or 3.
So are you going to respond at all to the possibility that your skill/gear setup may be to blame for your lack of success so far?
I think the best bet would be adding a global cooldown on the cursed chest so you can only activate them say about every 15 minutes or so. The event is cool and is fun but if overdone it gets quite boring. This fix would make it still possible for those who just come along it in regular play and it limits the farming aspect of it.
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On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
Let me guess, you're an action house warrior or play on a difficulty that provides you no challenge whatsover? The thumping your chest you are trying to do really isn't impressing anyone though.
So are you going to respond at all to the possibility that your skill/gear setup may be to blame for your lack of success so far?
Looks like that's a resounding "no." I thought you did a great job of staying patient and trying your best to actually explain the argument/situation at hand, Daisy, so thanks. I also want to say that I think the cursed chests are a nice challenge, but I've been able to clear the 2-3 that I've found so far (albeit on Torment I), so like the way they are currently tuned.
i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
I think the best bet would be adding a global cooldown on the cursed chest so you can only activate them say about every 15 minutes or so. The event is cool and is fun but if overdone it gets quite boring. This fix would make it still possible for those who just come along it in regular play and it limits the farming aspect of it.
Yeah because forcing people to play thier game only in the way that you want them to play it is totally the right answer.
It'll be interesting to see if Blizzard takes any action against the streamers who are openly participating in the chest farming exploit. It's one thing to try it out on your own time, but streaming it live to thousands of viewers or posting it to a youtube channel is, well, stupid imo.
So because people E.G Myself thought it was just a quick way of leveling with the tradeoff being very boring who spent 5+ hours doing it without knowing it's an exploit (When you think of the amount of exp paragon 800 has, it doesn't seem that faster). We should have that work removed?
Yup. You can not honestly say that as you cavorted around doing this exploit that some where deep inside you weren't saying...."we're cheesing the system."
It's one thing on the PTR/Beta with the Nemesis bracer exploit, but that too, was an EXPLOIT!
Let me guess, you're an action house warrior or play on a difficulty that provides you no challenge whatsover? The thumping your chest you are trying to do really isn't impressing anyone though.
No, in reality it's more about your build than anything else.
My WD has a harder time doing the chests/shrines without using something like Acid Rain, whereas my Wizard has a fairly easy time using Sleet Storm, most Arcane Orb runes, and most Meteor runes. In order to kill 100 monsters or 5 waves in the timeframe, you have to have a fairly-solid AoE ability with good AoE size.
I can farm Torment 1 pretty easily and the chests/shrines are pretty easy too..... unless I do something like use Zombie Bears, in which case I rarely get the bonus chest. They, really, are a prime target for build-swapping to something more appropriate to such high AoE damage requirements. There's nothing preventing anyone from clearing out the area, changing skills around, completing the event, swapping back and then moving along.
Quote from ArosRS»
So because people E.G Myself thought it was just a quick way of leveling with the tradeoff being very boring who spent 5+ hours doing it without knowing it's an exploit (When you think of the amount of exp paragon 800 has, it doesn't seem that faster). We should have that work removed?
You actually expect anyone to believe that you HONESTLY thought that getting more than 1 billion XP/hr at level 60 seemed reasonable to you?
Part of exploiting is the innate knowledge that you are bending/breaking the rules of the game. There is no way that someone who organized 4-player "chest runs" was ignorant of the completely out-of-bounds XP rates they were generating.
While the game is not competitive, there is no reason that anyone who used that to get XP should be allowed to keep it. None. If I were Blizzard I'd just ban everyone who did it. It's clear that no one learned from the RMAH gold dupe that, when they find something that far beyond the general rules of the game that they should report it and not beat it to death. The only way to get people to learn is to get more and more draconian.
Maybe you would learn if not only were you to receive a ban but have ALL your paragon XP reset? How much will it take?
From my experience, i had a lot of fun doing the "Chest" events, due to the nature of the event, but "farming" it becomes tiresome quite fast, although dynamic events like this is always welcome, having them spawn SET places is the issue.
If let's say it had random spawn locations instead of the same spawn location, but still gave the same reward, it would be a challenge to hunt them down, instead of just constantly creating games KNOWING where it is located.
Me and some friends (About 400k Toughness and 150k dps) and a tank (3 wiz 1 monk), tank with about 1.5 mill toughness, were able to beat, and get about 130-150 kills on Torment 6 difficulty (Netting 100mill XP in 3-5 min, about 1200-2000mill XP/Hour), although our gear is nowhere near what should be possible. But with teamwork, and coordination of abilities we managed to be able to farm it on Torment 6.
I hope they will implement something similar to what i suggested above, so that the event will still exist, still give a nice chunk of XP to when you complete it, BUT it should be rare, and non-farm able by having RANDOM spawn location, instead of set spawn locations with random % appearance.
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"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
- Mario Andretti
Because he (she?) choose to play at the level he is comfortable with (He also said he doesn't like to faceroll so accusing him doing faceroll? Really?), which seems to be the level in which he can both clear regular content and the chests. The OP also has this choice. If he thinks one part of the game is beyond his level at the moment, he can always reduce difficulty in game to complete that part.
Also, we don't know which skills the OP uses for the chests. A change in this part might help a lot.
I always respec a couple skills and I can complete it on the more challenging difficulties. I put on Improved Archon and Chain Reaction and it gets the job done.
Not like I'm asking for a method here, but exactly how are people "exploiting" Cursed Chests? Obviously, without Adventure Mode, I can't jump around the game too much, but when I go to an Act now...I start on the last quest so I can bounce around the Act as I feel like, and yeah, I tend to start with areas I know tend to spawn a Cursed Chest. Sometimes I get them, sometimes I don't. And I suppose it does sorta guide where I go to battle, but I wouldn't say it feels like an exploit, even though it has gotten me a decent amount of XP, but then again, so have events like Triage, Crazy Climber, Blaze of Glory, and Blood Ties, and I don't think those are getting nerfed/inspiring bans.
In my opinion, the only thing they should do about Cursed Chests is maybe change the XP reward based on performance: If you start/activate the event, you get a small XP reward for participation. If you survive til the end, but don't get the extra chest, you get a moderate XP reward. The biggest XP reward is for successfully meeting the requirement and winning the extra chest.
That would prevent people from taking advantage of just FINDING Cursed Chests and cashing in on big XP when they didn't actually push themselves farther along and didn't get strong enough to complete them.
The monsters in the "Kill 100 monsters" ones themselves give extremely high amounts of exp and spawn a lot of enemies. This was easily exploited for the Cursed Chest in A1 HoA 3. You just get the checkpoint for the entrance, check for the chest, rinse and repeat with a group. Each person would make their own game and the person that found it would invite the others. Grab a Monk with Cyclone Strike to suck all of the enemies in, and voila. Some of the people I'm in clan with gained more than 20 levels last night, just within a few hours time. And my low paragon friend went from 1 to 50.
I don't understand the negative connotations many ascribe to the concept of an "exploit" in a non-competitive game, especially once the trading is out of the picture. It is counterintuitive to me. And this one certainly will not lead to a ban of any sort, regardless of how you interpret the vague blue posts, because it does not relate in a direct manner to RMAH transactions and do not involve a bug, but simply "clever" use of game mechanics. I haven't done it because my friends are patiently waiting for RoS, but I would have if I had been invited to a chest-farming-party, at least until I got bored an hour later.
I do agree that this should be "nerfed", because it is consistent with the game's design philosophy: The point of diablo 3 seems to be to fascilitate a grinding experience, and the longer the experience, the better the (late) game (paradoxical, I know, but we all know it to be the truth and moreover, it is why they are now removing AH). It's quite obious from the developers point of view that they want people to use a wide range of the game mechanics to avoid boredom and, therefore, complaints. We all want to use the best method, but we don't want for there not to even have to be a method (i.e., in the logical absolute, for us to be lvl 70 paragon level 2000 the minute we join and not have to play the game).
To those who claim that this method is only slightly better because there aren't always chests next to the WP, you have misunderstood the nature of the method: 4 players try to find it in their own, individual games, but as soon as 1 person finds it, the other three join his game. We did this at one point to farm treasure goblins, back in 2012. It wasn't particularly effective back then, but it is now.
While it is an exploit, it is only exploiting the fact that it is a 4 player game, and not some sort of sinister hole in the programming. Similar in this respect to how we farmed demonic essences in the beginning with WDs BBVoodoo (people leaving the game and joining again once the TR monk finds elites, in order to reset their cooldowns). Again, fun for a -very- short while because of the intrinsic joy of high efficiency, but monotonous and eventually detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.
Basically when you are doing this alone and finding it to be only slightly better than normal farming, you need to multiply this result by 4, initially, and then add the general MP bonus. It will then be apparent how it is wildly effective and should be nerfed (but not punished).
I don't understand the negative connotations many ascribe to the concept of an "exploit" in a non-competitive game, especially once the trading is out of the picture. It is counterintuitive to me.
I'll try to explain it to you:
We are all playing the same game. I don't care if someone reaches paragon 800 next week. However, these people also happen to be some that Blizzard listens to (not exclusively, but they get heard just like all the "casual" gamers for sure). Now, if someone reaches paragon 800 next week, or has virtually every item in the game, you're correct that in a non-competitive game like D3 it doesn't affect others. However, at some point Blizzard addresses the concerns raised by these people (who are probably a few thousand), and it ultimately creates a backlash for the other people playing (who happen to be a few million people). And sometimes, this makes the game worse for the others. Example? Because a few thousand people went absolutely crazy on the auction house, the game was totally out of balance; subsequently, the drop rates had to be lowered, ultimately forcing everyone to use the auction house (this was confirmed by a bluepost at the time).
If any kind of exploit does not have a negative impact on the game, I don't care; but as soon as an exploit is being abused by a selected few, the result is not rolled back (as the ~100 paragon levels acquired by others), and the impact might potentially harm everyone's game experience (i.e., leveling might become slower for everyone as a result of that action), it is affecting everyone.
If any kind of exploit does not have a negative impact on the game, I don't care; but as soon as an exploit is being abused by a selected few, the result is not rolled back (as the ~100 paragon levels acquired by others), and the impact might potentially harm everyone's game experience (i.e., leveling might become slower for everyone as a result of that action), it is affecting everyone.
This is a fair point and I understand the concern. Whether or not the accounts should be rolled back is uninteresting to me, as it is a trivial sanction compared to bans. But so is the benefit of the exploit we are talking about here, chest farming, and the effects of an eventual backlash on general balancing should be, I would estimate, negligible. Of course, who knows. Your example is much more drastic, and relates to the AH which obviously made this, at least in part, more of a competitive game and a sensitive ecosystem. Right now, it is more comparable to the console version, where it is totally irrelevant if anyone else has exploited (always possible there due to the save-game-trade-load-game system, for all games of this type).
Whether or not the accounts should be rolled back is uninteresting to me, as it is a trivial sanction compared to bans. But so is the benefit of the exploit we are talking about here, chest farming, and the effects of an eventual backlash on general balancing should be, I would estimate, negligible. Of course, who knows.
Sorry to barge in, but I think this is a really interesting discussion.
I think a big part of the problem is the ultra-social gaming world we live in today; I fundamentally agree that a negligible exploit is, well, negligible, but that's so much more rare than it was in the past because today that shit gets downright *broadcast* the second it's discovered, and becomes widespread. It's much harder to say "live and let live" because there was a time when exploits would be relatively unknown and for the most part, people would just play the game.
As Bagstone points out, you get a couple of really influential members of the community who make a living playing the game, and a big chunk of the community follows in their footsteps. As an old man in terms of gaming culture, I'm shocked at how often I see streamers cited as some kind of authority on how the game should be played. I understand the mentality, but it's just way too pervasive.
And then those people turn around and pan the game for being broken. I used to watch Kripparian's videos and think to myself, "Well of course you have these complaints, you've played the game for several thousand hours. You need to go outside." But then you see other players with the same complaints, and they're like paragon 30. It's just toxic.
daisychopper: the point is that if you are geared/specced well enough to complete the event solo in a given difficulty, why would you even play that difficulty and not the next one since the rest of the content is obviously going to be beyond faceroll? Now I still don't know if that's even true (I don't even think all classes have an option to spec optimally for this) but I'm just trying to make you see the point of the OP which you are completely missing.
I assure you, I understand the OP's point completely.
You're approaching the problem as if it's binary - i.e., you're either good enough to get the bonus chest all the time (and the rest of the content is too easy) or never good enough to get the bonus chest (but the rest of the content is challenging) - and that's not the reality.
You can play on challenging content, fail to get the bonus chest most of the time (which is where it seems the OP is), rise in power over time until you can get it all the time, and then sure, you might decide to move on to the next difficulty and you'll be back to failing to get the bonus chest most of the time.
But that doesn't mean the bonus chest needs to be tuned down; it just means you have to keep working until you can handle it. That's called progression. It's the entire point of the game. Hence my response:
And once you rise to said challenge, you are obviously wasting time in that difficulty and should move on to the next. Isn't the point of the difficulty system to be able to determine how much challenge you want? What is the point of only a single element not being equally challenging as the rest?
I can assure you that if you can get 100 kills as a barbarian you should not be in that difficulty, hence defeating the point of being able to do it.
Oh good, you've decided to call me names and make baseless assumptions about me. And here I was worried we were in danger of having a discussion.
Anyway, the difficulty I choose to play on isn't really relevant; I do try to pick one that's challenging, but that's a subjective call so I can't really compare notes with you. If I had to try, I'd say I won't play on any difficulty where I can kill monsters in 2 hits or less. It just isn't much fun that way.
For what it's worth, I'm about 50/50 on the bonus chest. The biggest factor seems to be my loadout; if I'm not using a build that stacks a lot of AoE skills, I usually only get to wave 2 or 3.
So are you going to respond at all to the possibility that your skill/gear setup may be to blame for your lack of success so far?
I'd say revert the experience for those that did more than 30 chests a day.
Ha. Bagstone.
It's one thing on the PTR/Beta with the Nemesis bracer exploit, but that too, was an EXPLOIT!
My WD has a harder time doing the chests/shrines without using something like Acid Rain, whereas my Wizard has a fairly easy time using Sleet Storm, most Arcane Orb runes, and most Meteor runes. In order to kill 100 monsters or 5 waves in the timeframe, you have to have a fairly-solid AoE ability with good AoE size.
I can farm Torment 1 pretty easily and the chests/shrines are pretty easy too..... unless I do something like use Zombie Bears, in which case I rarely get the bonus chest. They, really, are a prime target for build-swapping to something more appropriate to such high AoE damage requirements. There's nothing preventing anyone from clearing out the area, changing skills around, completing the event, swapping back and then moving along.
You actually expect anyone to believe that you HONESTLY thought that getting more than 1 billion XP/hr at level 60 seemed reasonable to you?
Part of exploiting is the innate knowledge that you are bending/breaking the rules of the game. There is no way that someone who organized 4-player "chest runs" was ignorant of the completely out-of-bounds XP rates they were generating.
While the game is not competitive, there is no reason that anyone who used that to get XP should be allowed to keep it. None. If I were Blizzard I'd just ban everyone who did it. It's clear that no one learned from the RMAH gold dupe that, when they find something that far beyond the general rules of the game that they should report it and not beat it to death. The only way to get people to learn is to get more and more draconian.
Maybe you would learn if not only were you to receive a ban but have ALL your paragon XP reset? How much will it take?
If let's say it had random spawn locations instead of the same spawn location, but still gave the same reward, it would be a challenge to hunt them down, instead of just constantly creating games KNOWING where it is located.
Me and some friends (About 400k Toughness and 150k dps) and a tank (3 wiz 1 monk), tank with about 1.5 mill toughness, were able to beat, and get about 130-150 kills on Torment 6 difficulty (Netting 100mill XP in 3-5 min, about 1200-2000mill XP/Hour), although our gear is nowhere near what should be possible. But with teamwork, and coordination of abilities we managed to be able to farm it on Torment 6.
I hope they will implement something similar to what i suggested above, so that the event will still exist, still give a nice chunk of XP to when you complete it, BUT it should be rare, and non-farm able by having RANDOM spawn location, instead of set spawn locations with random % appearance.
- Mario Andretti
Also, we don't know which skills the OP uses for the chests. A change in this part might help a lot.
I think they're fine as is.
The monsters in the "Kill 100 monsters" ones themselves give extremely high amounts of exp and spawn a lot of enemies. This was easily exploited for the Cursed Chest in A1 HoA 3. You just get the checkpoint for the entrance, check for the chest, rinse and repeat with a group. Each person would make their own game and the person that found it would invite the others. Grab a Monk with Cyclone Strike to suck all of the enemies in, and voila. Some of the people I'm in clan with gained more than 20 levels last night, just within a few hours time. And my low paragon friend went from 1 to 50.
Funny thing is all the tears over Blizzard removing an AMAZINGLY OBVIOUS exploit.
I do agree that this should be "nerfed", because it is consistent with the game's design philosophy: The point of diablo 3 seems to be to fascilitate a grinding experience, and the longer the experience, the better the (late) game (paradoxical, I know, but we all know it to be the truth and moreover, it is why they are now removing AH). It's quite obious from the developers point of view that they want people to use a wide range of the game mechanics to avoid boredom and, therefore, complaints. We all want to use the best method, but we don't want for there not to even have to be a method (i.e., in the logical absolute, for us to be lvl 70 paragon level 2000 the minute we join and not have to play the game).
To those who claim that this method is only slightly better because there aren't always chests next to the WP, you have misunderstood the nature of the method: 4 players try to find it in their own, individual games, but as soon as 1 person finds it, the other three join his game. We did this at one point to farm treasure goblins, back in 2012. It wasn't particularly effective back then, but it is now.
While it is an exploit, it is only exploiting the fact that it is a 4 player game, and not some sort of sinister hole in the programming. Similar in this respect to how we farmed demonic essences in the beginning with WDs BBVoodoo (people leaving the game and joining again once the TR monk finds elites, in order to reset their cooldowns). Again, fun for a -very- short while because of the intrinsic joy of high efficiency, but monotonous and eventually detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.
Basically when you are doing this alone and finding it to be only slightly better than normal farming, you need to multiply this result by 4, initially, and then add the general MP bonus. It will then be apparent how it is wildly effective and should be nerfed (but not punished).
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/
We are all playing the same game. I don't care if someone reaches paragon 800 next week. However, these people also happen to be some that Blizzard listens to (not exclusively, but they get heard just like all the "casual" gamers for sure). Now, if someone reaches paragon 800 next week, or has virtually every item in the game, you're correct that in a non-competitive game like D3 it doesn't affect others. However, at some point Blizzard addresses the concerns raised by these people (who are probably a few thousand), and it ultimately creates a backlash for the other people playing (who happen to be a few million people). And sometimes, this makes the game worse for the others. Example? Because a few thousand people went absolutely crazy on the auction house, the game was totally out of balance; subsequently, the drop rates had to be lowered, ultimately forcing everyone to use the auction house (this was confirmed by a bluepost at the time).
If any kind of exploit does not have a negative impact on the game, I don't care; but as soon as an exploit is being abused by a selected few, the result is not rolled back (as the ~100 paragon levels acquired by others), and the impact might potentially harm everyone's game experience (i.e., leveling might become slower for everyone as a result of that action), it is affecting everyone.
Generally, I suppose I agree with you.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/
Sorry to barge in, but I think this is a really interesting discussion.
I think a big part of the problem is the ultra-social gaming world we live in today; I fundamentally agree that a negligible exploit is, well, negligible, but that's so much more rare than it was in the past because today that shit gets downright *broadcast* the second it's discovered, and becomes widespread. It's much harder to say "live and let live" because there was a time when exploits would be relatively unknown and for the most part, people would just play the game.
As Bagstone points out, you get a couple of really influential members of the community who make a living playing the game, and a big chunk of the community follows in their footsteps. As an old man in terms of gaming culture, I'm shocked at how often I see streamers cited as some kind of authority on how the game should be played. I understand the mentality, but it's just way too pervasive.
And then those people turn around and pan the game for being broken. I used to watch Kripparian's videos and think to myself, "Well of course you have these complaints, you've played the game for several thousand hours. You need to go outside." But then you see other players with the same complaints, and they're like paragon 30. It's just toxic.
I assure you, I understand the OP's point completely.
You're approaching the problem as if it's binary - i.e., you're either good enough to get the bonus chest all the time (and the rest of the content is too easy) or never good enough to get the bonus chest (but the rest of the content is challenging) - and that's not the reality.
You can play on challenging content, fail to get the bonus chest most of the time (which is where it seems the OP is), rise in power over time until you can get it all the time, and then sure, you might decide to move on to the next difficulty and you'll be back to failing to get the bonus chest most of the time.
But that doesn't mean the bonus chest needs to be tuned down; it just means you have to keep working until you can handle it. That's called progression. It's the entire point of the game. Hence my response:
I can assure you that if you can get 100 kills as a barbarian you should not be in that difficulty, hence defeating the point of being able to do it.