^Yeah but you cant compare to live. On live if you have a high paragon mp10 character capable of efficiently farming, the drop rate was pretty ridiculous. When paragoning I frequently netted 6-8 legs an hour. But the catch was 99.9% of these were utter trash. In RoS if you do get a leg chances are much much higher it will be useful, due to narrow ranges, and the mystic. So the drop rate should be lowered. I do think its still a tad bit too low now but they're on the right track.
Came here to say this. +1
This is just a problem of prespective. as people are comparing the amounts of legendarys agains each other and not the quality.
In live right now even if one could find 12-16 legendarys every 2 hours. only 1 of them would be remotely good. While in RoS you cut out the 11-15 other legendarys and only show you the decent to good legendary.
Now even if you get a "crappy" legendary you will be able to salvage it and make another of your legendarys better by using the "crappy" one. and this model is way better then the now live one. as pretty much the only ones gaining 12-16 legendarys every 2 hours are thoes that are efficently farming MP9-10 and those are not a a large portion of the player base.
infact most are probably farming MP1-6 with at most 150% magic find, now compare this to Mp10 farming with 600%+ MF. and also a higher kill rate.
the large portion of the player base will find more useful legendarys.
But due to the nature of enchanting stuff, i think that the drop rate for legendarys is a bit to low still. a good number is possibly one every 45-75 minutes. And this is probably what most players play in a session.
Now the most hardcore players will due to efficiency and gear be able to get legendarys more then twice as fast as a regular player. and its pretty hard to tune a good amount for both player bases.
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I didn't bother reading all this. But when he said "Let me ask you this. What amount of time do you personally think it should take to get a legendary?" This is just a stupid answer.
It's not about how long it should take to find a legendary, it should matter how long it will take to get the legendary items you WANT. It's BoA, if they want to make legendary items rare, then they're screwing all players. Cause we have to find them our selves, or someone in group. It wouldn't be normal to play 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, 12 months a year to get the gear you want, and still not having the best or great piece of that specific items. And considering there´s TONS of legendary items that can drop, including plans, and after watching streams of people playing beta, I personally think the drop rate is too low. They should've just kept it how it is now at live, just with loot 2.0. Just because there's no AH, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to trade items. Sure there will be scammers, but hey theres scammers everywhere, even irl, you can't avoid having scammers around, you can minimize the risk of getting scammed to close if not never getting scammed.
We don't always have to find upgrades our selves, but it helps. But limiting it to only allow ourselves to find what we need, is kinda too much. I've already got the pre-ordered game, but I'm not sure if it will turn out to be good. I'm kinda having second thoughts now, starting to wish I didn't get it.
It's not about how long it should take to find a legendary, it should matter how long it will take to get the legendary items you WANT. [...]
They should've just kept it how it is now at live, just with loot 2.0.
So... keeping it like it is on live now, what are you referring to?
The amount of legendaries? That would mean that within a couple of weeks you would've found almost every single legendary out there, and thanks to reforging probably many of them close to BiS.
Or the amount of legendary items you WANT? That would mean zero, because thanks to the AH the majority of people has never found an upgrade or sidegrade themselves, and especially a legendary "you want" you will only get from the AH.
Removing the AH is not one of their main selling points of the expansion. You don't even need to buy the expansion for it to be removed.
Fair enough. But i assure you that had it still been in the game(and therefore the itemization would have been shit) people wouldn't be half as hyped for RoS as they are now. Not to mention that they are removing it just before the expansion hits when they could have taken it out way before. So my point still stands.
I see where they are trying to go with the blood shards. Basically using it as a currency like they did for Bonus Rolls in WoW. Only difference is that there it actually helped make up for bad RNG where as here it's actually adding to bad RNG. Not to mention D3 isn't an MMO and shouldn't really be treated like one by adding unnecessary grinds for gambling currency.
Again, i have no problems with gambling (loved the D2X model). I just don't like it being forced down my throat. And yes it is being forced or else it wouldn't be a factor in the drop rate on mobs. They crammed the AH into the game by screwing up the itemization in D3 and now they are doing the same thing with gambling by splitting the % of drop rates between the mobs and the shard vendor. gg Blizz.
How is this "timer" working? If I play for 2 hours I should get a legendary. But what if I only (can) play for 1 hour? Is the timer reset or can I just play another hour later to get the legendary?
How is this "timer" working? If I play for 2 hours I should get a legendary. But what if I only (can) play for 1 hour? Is the timer reset or can I just play another hour later to get the legendary?
They can't expect anyone to play for 10+ hours straight, obviously the timer doesn't just reset when you log out, disconnect, or take a break. If you want a blue post answer to this, you'd have to ask on the official forums rather than here, but somebody already asked this question anyways. But like I said, he's talking about 18+ hours streaks, those are impossible for most sane humans without taking a break.
@Bleu Slimjimm makes a very good point on the official forums:
" (...) playing solo on normal should be the base, everything after should be a bonus, whether its higher tier of gear, more gear, more affixes, higher affix range, w/e."
I agree with this part. A legendary once in a while (like 60-90 mins) is fine for a regular playthrough (though that can be accomplished by first kill legendaries) or as a starting point for the actual farming. However I want to progress into finding more than that. How else would I measure my progress if not by this? I don't expect as many legendaries as on D2 Mephisto, though there's nothing wrong with such a rate IF it is as limited as Meph was (no high end loot table). But given that out of 5 legendaries, I tend to get 3 Spirit Stones, a Staff and one possibly useful item, I don't want to spend 5 hours on that, even though I can make use out of the 4 crappy ones come RoS.
You are all babies, I can tell that most of you have grown up in the 'modern' era of gaming where everything is spoon-fed to you. The drop rates of legendaries have to be low because otherwise the game will have very low longevitiy. It's not supposed to be a single player game, if that was the case then I would agree that the dorp rates should be higher. This isn't the case how ever, this game is ment to be played for several hundered hours and still be rewarding and enjoyable. But don't worry kids, the baby brigade usually wins in the end so you will probably get your precious legendaries in droves.
I want the game to last several hundred hours of course. I played D3 for over 1500 hours. But I don't want it to take couple hundred thousand hours to get what you want. I wouldn't mind low drop chances, as long as the items are tradeable, not BoA crap. What if I want that specific legendary weapon for my crusader? Or those specific shoulders? I may never get them, cause of the low drop chance, unless I get lucky, or play 12 hours a day all day of the year. Yeah I can't do that. I don't wanna be left out cause I can only play 2-3 hours a day, and maybe not all days of the weeks. And I have other classes you know.. Diablo isn't just a game to play one class, it's a game where you should be able to play all of them, without restrictions, like super low drop chance.
How is this "timer" working? If I play for 2 hours I should get a legendary. But what if I only (can) play for 1 hour? Is the timer reset or can I just play another hour later to get the legendary?
They can't expect anyone to play for 10+ hours straight, obviously the timer doesn't just reset when you log out, disconnect, or take a break. If you want a blue post answer to this, you'd have to ask on the official forums rather than here, but somebody already asked this question anyways. But like I said, he's talking about 18+ hours streaks, those are impossible for most sane humans without taking a break.
I find it funny how they say "18+ hours" I personally think if you play an hour without a legendary there's something wrong. Considering the amount of legendary items in RoS, the possibilities to not have a guaranteed roll of what you really want. I think 1 legendary an hour is even too little. I mean on live I've found 1 mempo in 1500 hours. And the drop chance isnt low. Combine the drop chance on beta, and the amount of legendaries, finding a mempo like on live, it wouldn't take 1500 hours, it would take probably if lucky 15000 hours.
Considering the amount of legendary items in RoS, the possibilities to not have a guaranteed roll of what you really want. I think 1 legendary an hour is even too little. I mean on live I've found 1 mempo in 1500 hours. And the drop chance isnt low. Combine the drop chance on beta, and the amount of legendaries, finding a mempo like on live, it wouldn't take 1500 hours, it would take probably if lucky 15000 hours.
Sigh...
1) If you want to get one legendary per hour, and you play 1500 hours, it would mean that you'd find every legendary item about six (!) times. Roughly averaged. Think about it.
2) If you didn't find a Mempo in 1500 hours it's called RNG. Sorry about that. Be aware that random means random, if the legendary drops were equally distributed across all slots, it wouldn't be random. There are people who haven't found a Mempo, there are people who have found multiple. We can't all be lucky.
3) If you're desperately craving for a legendary drop, there's nothing you can do in D3V. Your streak of bad luck can be super long, no mechanism to counter that. In RoS you've got the timer that takes care of that.
4) If you're desperately craving for a specific drop, i.e., a Mempo, that's exactly what the gambling is made for. You farm some blood shards and buy some helms.
5) Stop. Comparing. Live. With. Beta. Yes, one out of 30 Mempos was crap, because there was only one good affix. In RoS, there are still legendaries that will be no upgrade for your character, but especially the "powerful legendaries" are almost certain to have at least some value. And one thing that people keep forgetting is REFORGING. Got a legendary that looks nice but has a bad roll? Reforge. (Also note that legendary reforging materials might drop from rifts in the future or something like that, so it's not all about salvaging legendaries anymoer.)
4) If you're desperately craving for a specific drop, i.e., a Mempo, that's exactly what the gambling is made for. You farm some blood shards and buy some helms.
You missed the "unless you don't buy RoS, then you be screwed".
Yes, we're talking about RoS in this thread. Let's make a different topic if we want to discuss the state of D3V after the release of RoS; otherwise things will get mixed up and arguments become even unclearer than they already are.
my 10th 100-para-char is on the way... so calc. about 2200+ h PLAYTIME... well... you may think now: wow... this guy must have a ton of usefull legs in his stash... erm... no... not really... the most i found was later in the ah sold for about 1 million... compensate the rapair costs...
1 item for 1 bill (5% crit mempo) .. thats it
so calculate only with my playtime... there are many other players out there with significant more playtime. do the math with 2 legs per hour - its about to be realistic...
4400 legs - 1 useable
Wait, you complain about only winning the lottery once? Scoring a 5% crit Mempo is about as good as it gets. Yes, it could've rolled 6% and yes, a select few rare weapons had a higher gold-value, but if you consider lesser items than this Mempo useless, you're playing the wrong game.
Quote from Bagstone»1) If you want to get one legendary per hour, and you play 1500 hours, it would mean that you'd find every legendary item about six (!) times. Roughly averaged. Think about it.
True, but then factor that unless you start in Torment, those hours spent in Master/Expert aren't yielding the GOOD legendaries.
Then factor when you do get to Torment those GOOD legendaries have a lower drop chance than the regular legendaries.
So in 1500 hours you very well may have 5+ Strongarm Bracers, but you also very well may not have a Grandfather, Windforce, etc.
And this is ultimately the problem and the disconnect. By the time you've made it to Torment you don't give a rat's ass if you've found five, ten, or two hundred Strongarm Bracers. At this point those items are being used as fodder to enchant and re-enchant your gear so that you can up the difficulty and nothing more.
So, frankly, saying that after 1500 hours people have found "six of each legendary" is hugely misleading because you're ignoring the fact that the legendaries they need to go past Torment 1 are the ones that weren't dropping in Master and below, and they're also the ones that have a decidedly lower drop rate than the ones they've found so many of.
They are, essentially, the Isenheart's Breastplate of D3. Did anyone actually care that Isenheart's Breastplate seemed to have a 50% chance to drop? Not at all.
One legendary per two hours sounds like too much to me.
Sounds like too little to most other people. Everyone also seems to ignore the announcement of the hidden "safety net" that grants you a legendary drop in less than 8 hours of play of you were unlucky. If you are asking for this rule to apply equally for all legendaries including the most powerful ones, then you are just asking for things to be handed to you on a platter.
Oh well. it's never going to be a game for everyone.
Second and more importantly. I'm in the process of working up another hotfix for the beta that will do 2 things.
1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don't want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.
2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn't been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren't exactly where we want them right now and it's very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be.
At least they heard us about wanting more drops from monsters and less drops from gambling. Doubled drop rates should then put us roughly around 1 legendary per hour. That actually sounds somewhat reasonable given the variety of legendaries, etc.
Hey folks I'm back with some clarifications and some news that should please everyone.
First the clarification, the timer system that works behind the scenes is meant to be exactly that, behind the scenes. No you can't afk the system, there are a lot of moving pieces to it and we talked about it extensively before we implemented it to guarantee its not exploitable. At it's heart Diablo is a game about slaughtering demons and getting random cool rewards. The system that is in place should never be experienced by 99% of the population, it's there for the 1% who just get really bad random rolls for an excessively long period of time. If we want you to get a legendary every 2 hours, the system basically says "ok it's been like double/triple that period of time, just help the guy out!"
Second and more importantly. I'm in the process of working up another hotfix for the beta that will do 2 things.
1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don't want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.
2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn't been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren't exactly where we want them right now and it's very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be.
Second and more importantly. I'm in the process of working up another hotfix for the beta that will do 2 things.
1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don't want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.
2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn't been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren't exactly where we want them right now and it's very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be.
At least they heard us about wanting more drops from monsters and less drops from gambling. Doubled drop rates should then put us roughly around 1 legendary per hour. That actually sounds somewhat reasonable given the variety of legendaries, etc.
And with that in mind, what do you guys think? Should I close this thread (since the matter is pretty much completely changed now) and have us focus on the "new feedback"?
Instead of letting people read this "hot thread" and think it's up to date info? Forum feedback? =P
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So... keeping it like it is on live now, what are you referring to?
The amount of legendaries? That would mean that within a couple of weeks you would've found almost every single legendary out there, and thanks to reforging probably many of them close to BiS.
Or the amount of legendary items you WANT? That would mean zero, because thanks to the AH the majority of people has never found an upgrade or sidegrade themselves, and especially a legendary "you want" you will only get from the AH.
They can't expect anyone to play for 10+ hours straight, obviously the timer doesn't just reset when you log out, disconnect, or take a break. If you want a blue post answer to this, you'd have to ask on the official forums rather than here, but somebody already asked this question anyways. But like I said, he's talking about 18+ hours streaks, those are impossible for most sane humans without taking a break.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Sigh...
1) If you want to get one legendary per hour, and you play 1500 hours, it would mean that you'd find every legendary item about six (!) times. Roughly averaged. Think about it.
2) If you didn't find a Mempo in 1500 hours it's called RNG. Sorry about that. Be aware that random means random, if the legendary drops were equally distributed across all slots, it wouldn't be random. There are people who haven't found a Mempo, there are people who have found multiple. We can't all be lucky.
3) If you're desperately craving for a legendary drop, there's nothing you can do in D3V. Your streak of bad luck can be super long, no mechanism to counter that. In RoS you've got the timer that takes care of that.
4) If you're desperately craving for a specific drop, i.e., a Mempo, that's exactly what the gambling is made for. You farm some blood shards and buy some helms.
5) Stop. Comparing. Live. With. Beta. Yes, one out of 30 Mempos was crap, because there was only one good affix. In RoS, there are still legendaries that will be no upgrade for your character, but especially the "powerful legendaries" are almost certain to have at least some value. And one thing that people keep forgetting is REFORGING. Got a legendary that looks nice but has a bad roll? Reforge. (Also note that legendary reforging materials might drop from rifts in the future or something like that, so it's not all about salvaging legendaries anymoer.)
You missed the "unless you don't buy RoS, then you be screwed".
Yes, we're talking about RoS in this thread. Let's make a different topic if we want to discuss the state of D3V after the release of RoS; otherwise things will get mixed up and arguments become even unclearer than they already are.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
True, but then factor that unless you start in Torment, those hours spent in Master/Expert aren't yielding the GOOD legendaries.
Then factor when you do get to Torment those GOOD legendaries have a lower drop chance than the regular legendaries.
So in 1500 hours you very well may have 5+ Strongarm Bracers, but you also very well may not have a Grandfather, Windforce, etc.
And this is ultimately the problem and the disconnect. By the time you've made it to Torment you don't give a rat's ass if you've found five, ten, or two hundred Strongarm Bracers. At this point those items are being used as fodder to enchant and re-enchant your gear so that you can up the difficulty and nothing more.
So, frankly, saying that after 1500 hours people have found "six of each legendary" is hugely misleading because you're ignoring the fact that the legendaries they need to go past Torment 1 are the ones that weren't dropping in Master and below, and they're also the ones that have a decidedly lower drop rate than the ones they've found so many of.
They are, essentially, the Isenheart's Breastplate of D3. Did anyone actually care that Isenheart's Breastplate seemed to have a 50% chance to drop? Not at all.
One legendary per two hours sounds like too much to me.
Sounds like too little to most other people. Everyone also seems to ignore the announcement of the hidden "safety net" that grants you a legendary drop in less than 8 hours of play of you were unlucky. If you are asking for this rule to apply equally for all legendaries including the most powerful ones, then you are just asking for things to be handed to you on a platter.
Oh well. it's never going to be a game for everyone.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11307900907?page=23#451
Of note:
At least they heard us about wanting more drops from monsters and less drops from gambling. Doubled drop rates should then put us roughly around 1 legendary per hour. That actually sounds somewhat reasonable given the variety of legendaries, etc.
And with that in mind, what do you guys think? Should I close this thread (since the matter is pretty much completely changed now) and have us focus on the "new feedback"?
Instead of letting people read this "hot thread" and think it's up to date info? Forum feedback? =P