I posted on the Diablo 3 forum, without much success. I figured I might post it here as well.
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Back in Diablo 1, some optional quests were given by NPC or through certain events.
-For example, when walking towards the entrance of the Cathedral, you could see a mortally wounded man on the floor. He would beg you to kill the Butcher to avenge the death of town-folks.
-Upon creating a new game, there was a possibility that the fountain behind Cain was contaminated. Cain would ask you to find the source and cleanse their water supply.
-Upon exploring the gruesome underground, you could come across a rather epic quest for the Valor Armor (not sure of the name).
-You could be given the quest to put the Mad King to rest (well... until he reawakens again).
Those quests weren't just "Trigger and complete it within the next 5 minutes. You had to dedicate some time. The rewards were good, at least, for the first time. The Butcher's cleaver... The Unique Ring. The Valor armor or Crown...
Back in Diablo 1, we had Random events and we had NPCs giving us random quests.
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Now, in Diablo 3, we have Random events and random dungeons. While the Random events and dungeons could use extra work to make them more appealing, NPCs desperately need to give us optional quests. Those quests need to require investment. We don't necessairely need to walk far away, but it need to take some time to complete it.
Here's some example of side quest that could be interesting, IMO.
Covetous Shen's Gem
While in Act 3, Covetous Shen has a chance to give you this quest. He informs you that there's a valuable Gem somewhere beneath the snow in the Battlefield area. An additional dungeon is unlocked (can only be unlocked after speaking to him) upon talking to him. It is a multi-tier dungeon with a random event and a purple mini-boss at the end of the dungeon. After defeating the boss, he MAY drop a higher quality gem (he is guaranteed to drop at least 1 gem. He may drop multiple gems as well).
This quest is a nice homage, IMO, to the Countess in Diablo 2.
Haedrig Eamon's Enchanted Hammer
While in Act 2, Haedrig Eamon has a chance to give you this quest. He informs you that his Enchanted Hammer was lost many years ago when he met his now deceased wife. Rumor has it that demons are now using it to forge weapons. He informs you that the Hammer must be retrieved at once.
A new zone in the Oasis is now unlocked. Somewhere in the Oasis lies the Fallen Smith. The Fallen has claimed the Hammer as his own and is using it to forge deadly weapons for his minions. There's even rumors that this Fallen is slowly trying to take Rakanishu's throne. You will face stronger version of Fallen monsters in that area. The Fallen Smith is a Fast, Strong and resilient foe. Upon defeating the Fallen Smith, he will drop the Enchanted Hammer. Return it to Haedrig Eamon and he shall grant you a "Free" crafting item... but you will still need to bring him the required materials.
This quest is a nice homage to the Smith in D2 and Charsi. It also serves as an additional homage to Rakanishu.
From all the datamined info, I think you'll be pretty pleased with 'bounties'. It seems you'll be able to open up a over-world map, and click 5 sections (each act). In there, you can then find !'s, which mark the spot for bounties. I originally wasn't sure if they were just going to be 'kill this guy' or not, but it seems now bounties will have many objectives. Clever Blizzard, finding a cooler name for 'quests' =D
But by taking into account all the strings for different objectives datamined awhile ago, it seems there will be 100+ type objectives.
Tie that in with trying to find hidden objects to turn in for cards, to then turn in for loot (or however the last part works) for the Devil's Hand, and not to mention the crazy amount of other stuff (gheed's machine for gambling, ect) and I think we're going to have a ton of shit to do in RoS. Can't wait!!!
Ha...Bleu, I was going to mention that I just re-read about "Gheed's Machine," when I was looking for elemental effects backup, but then you went ahead and said it, nicely done, :-)
OP, in regard to your mention of NPCs giving side-quests...I don't care where I get the side-quests from, I just want MORE in my quest log than just the one major thing at the top...go here, go there, do this, do that. Yes, I've heard people say over and over that D3 isn't an MMO, and people think it shouldn't have MMO aspects, but one thing I like in most MMOs is having an absolute laundry list of places to go, people to talk to, things to kill...I can look at my packed quest log and go, "all right, where to start..."
In D3, without a laundry list of tasks, I have the freedom to go where I want, but the downside is that I feel my traipsing around out in the wilderness is a bit aimless beyond monster slaying, XP grinding, and item farming. Which, to me, are all fun tasks, but...
If they put in more formal or traditional side-quest type content, I could actually be DOING things while I slay monsters, XP grind, and farm for loot, :-)
Your two side-quest examples being homages to D2...I mean no disrespect here, but one thing I hated about D2 were the incredible lack of side-quests.
Yes, if one wanted, they could skip the Countess, but no one did, due to the rune drops. One can skip giving Alkor the Golden Bird of Ku Y'leh, but it's likely not many did, due to the bonus it gave to resistances or stats. Some of the quests were either too important or rewarding to skip, or "why bother" quests...
Not to mention that Acts 1, 2, 3 and 5 all had six quest "boxes" in the quest log. And one of those boxes was always the Act end boss. So it's not like you could get random quest spawns, like in D1. I liked that system, in fact, I feel like the random events in D3 kinda mirror that a bit. I could start a new character in D1, I don't know if I'll get the Butcher...I don't know if I'll get the Poisoned Water Supply...I don't know if I'll get the Black Mushroom...or Arkaine's Valor (they should remake that in D3...in Loot 2.0, that'd be epic)...or the Halls of the Blind...or the Chamber of Bone...none of those were definite.
But in D2, all the quests appeared in every character's game, and there weren't that many. So I'm a big fan of D3's existing random events. True, they could be harder, and absolutely more rewarding beyond an NV stack and a little XP.
I do agree that it'd be fun to have side-quests, but like Bleu pointed out...Adventure Mode seems to have a lot of side-things to get done and partake in, so...even if the Story Mode doesn't get side-quest type stuff to do, Adventure Mode sure will
Those two ideas where just ones that randomly popped into my head.
Diablo 2 didn't really have random events to be honest. It was more about map randomization than anything else. If I enter the cow level, "am I going to spawn inside the Cow Kind's lair, next to a large pack or will I be safe?".
I like Diablo 3's randomization (random events and optional dungeon) over Diablo 2's (random generated map and monsters). I like Diablo 1's random events over Diablo 3's because they usually required some investment.
Now, as for MMOs... I don't really play MMOs but most of their side-quest are just time sink >_> "Kill X monsters or collect Y materials". I want more side quests, but I don't want to have uninspiring side quests.
Now, as for MMOs... I don't really play MMOs but most of their side-quest are just time sink >_> "Kill X monsters or collect Y materials". I want more side quests, but I don't want to have uninspiring side quests.
That I can agree with 1000%.
I haven't really played many MMOs, but most of them I have played, like you said, the quests are usually the same...they're either fetch quests or kill this or that...go here, go there. In fact, even the story quests usually manifest the same way, so I rarely read all the text necessary for the story, I usually just get impatient and want to head out and do it, so I read the synopsis and skip the talking. At least in MMOs. Well...if this is the case, then maybe you won't be so into Bounties or the Devil's Hand or Gheed's Machine. But I do agree, some quality formal side-quests would be nice.
In regard to this, I think part of the downside of random "events" in D3, while I like them a lot, is that they start and end kinda fast, ya know? You're out wandering, you see some familiar art, and you go, "oh look, it's Tomb of Khan Dakab" or "oh look, it's Blaze of Glory". But they begin before you have time to really process them, and they typically end really fast, and it's just over and done with. Onto the next thing.
I'd love to see a side-quest or event put something on my quest log, and it requires me to actually go to a few different places, talk to a variety of different people, kill a few monsters...all in one. Like you said...investment!
In my experience while playing TL2, finding the NPCs that give you sidequests, are part of the sidequests themselves. If I could just find the quests in a static NPC in a town for example, I'm sure it wouldn't be the same.
In my experience while playing TL2, finding the NPCs that give you sidequests, are part of the sidequests themselves. If I could just find the quests in a static NPC in a town for example, I'm sure it wouldn't be the same.
I was just going to point out that TL2, generally, has a really good "side-quest" model. The only criticisim I'd have is that there aren't enough, so you tend to do the same ones over and over and over again. Then again, I'm not really sure that D3 players would enjoy them because they tend to involve you running around a good bit and that KILLS EFFICIENCY.
This is a personal opinion, but I think that all of this efficiency thing we have in D3, it's a side effect of a dull history/quest system. If you offer the players a great quest experience (not saying that TL2 has one, but it's at least better than what we have in D3) IMO, the fun will reign over the efficiency.
This is a personal opinion, but I think that all of this efficiency thing we have in D3, it's a side effect of a dull history/quest system. If you offer the players a great quest experience (not saying that TL2 has one, but it's at least better than what we have in D3) IMO, the fun will reign over the efficiency.
The "efficiency" comes from our new information age internet culture. People want to be like Kripp. They want to be #1. They want to emulate Alkaizer. I find that I enjoy D3 a LOT more when I'm *not* playing like that. The moment I start worring about XP/hr and all that happy horseshit it really detracts from the experience.
But when every build is measured against whether it can clear MP10 well, how much XP/hr it can pull, how many demonic essences/hr it can farm.... that's going to be what people focus on... even though I fully agree that efficiency as a sole focus is extraordinarily tedious. I'm not a professional gamer and I don't find that fun (in any game).
I understand, but ultimately, you will play the game for fun, if the quest system is tedious and boring, you need to find the fun in somewhere else, here is when the efficiency comes into play.
If you offer the players a great experience, efficiency aside, there would be a choice.
Diablo 1's quest system is still my favorite: randomly selected quests, many of which are initiated by talking to NPCs. I loved rolling new characters and wondering which quests I would get.
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Back in Diablo 1, some optional quests were given by NPC or through certain events.
-For example, when walking towards the entrance of the Cathedral, you could see a mortally wounded man on the floor. He would beg you to kill the Butcher to avenge the death of town-folks.
-Upon creating a new game, there was a possibility that the fountain behind Cain was contaminated. Cain would ask you to find the source and cleanse their water supply.
-Upon exploring the gruesome underground, you could come across a rather epic quest for the Valor Armor (not sure of the name).
-You could be given the quest to put the Mad King to rest (well... until he reawakens again).
Those quests weren't just "Trigger and complete it within the next 5 minutes. You had to dedicate some time. The rewards were good, at least, for the first time. The Butcher's cleaver... The Unique Ring. The Valor armor or Crown...
Back in Diablo 1, we had Random events and we had NPCs giving us random quests.
---
Now, in Diablo 3, we have Random events and random dungeons. While the Random events and dungeons could use extra work to make them more appealing, NPCs desperately need to give us optional quests. Those quests need to require investment. We don't necessairely need to walk far away, but it need to take some time to complete it.
Here's some example of side quest that could be interesting, IMO.
Covetous Shen's Gem
While in Act 3, Covetous Shen has a chance to give you this quest. He informs you that there's a valuable Gem somewhere beneath the snow in the Battlefield area. An additional dungeon is unlocked (can only be unlocked after speaking to him) upon talking to him. It is a multi-tier dungeon with a random event and a purple mini-boss at the end of the dungeon. After defeating the boss, he MAY drop a higher quality gem (he is guaranteed to drop at least 1 gem. He may drop multiple gems as well).
This quest is a nice homage, IMO, to the Countess in Diablo 2.
Haedrig Eamon's Enchanted Hammer
While in Act 2, Haedrig Eamon has a chance to give you this quest. He informs you that his Enchanted Hammer was lost many years ago when he met his now deceased wife. Rumor has it that demons are now using it to forge weapons. He informs you that the Hammer must be retrieved at once.
A new zone in the Oasis is now unlocked. Somewhere in the Oasis lies the Fallen Smith. The Fallen has claimed the Hammer as his own and is using it to forge deadly weapons for his minions. There's even rumors that this Fallen is slowly trying to take Rakanishu's throne. You will face stronger version of Fallen monsters in that area. The Fallen Smith is a Fast, Strong and resilient foe. Upon defeating the Fallen Smith, he will drop the Enchanted Hammer. Return it to Haedrig Eamon and he shall grant you a "Free" crafting item... but you will still need to bring him the required materials.
This quest is a nice homage to the Smith in D2 and Charsi. It also serves as an additional homage to Rakanishu.
But by taking into account all the strings for different objectives datamined awhile ago, it seems there will be 100+ type objectives.
Tie that in with trying to find hidden objects to turn in for cards, to then turn in for loot (or however the last part works) for the Devil's Hand, and not to mention the crazy amount of other stuff (gheed's machine for gambling, ect) and I think we're going to have a ton of shit to do in RoS. Can't wait!!!
OP, in regard to your mention of NPCs giving side-quests...I don't care where I get the side-quests from, I just want MORE in my quest log than just the one major thing at the top...go here, go there, do this, do that. Yes, I've heard people say over and over that D3 isn't an MMO, and people think it shouldn't have MMO aspects, but one thing I like in most MMOs is having an absolute laundry list of places to go, people to talk to, things to kill...I can look at my packed quest log and go, "all right, where to start..."
In D3, without a laundry list of tasks, I have the freedom to go where I want, but the downside is that I feel my traipsing around out in the wilderness is a bit aimless beyond monster slaying, XP grinding, and item farming. Which, to me, are all fun tasks, but...
If they put in more formal or traditional side-quest type content, I could actually be DOING things while I slay monsters, XP grind, and farm for loot, :-)
Your two side-quest examples being homages to D2...I mean no disrespect here, but one thing I hated about D2 were the incredible lack of side-quests.
Yes, if one wanted, they could skip the Countess, but no one did, due to the rune drops. One can skip giving Alkor the Golden Bird of Ku Y'leh, but it's likely not many did, due to the bonus it gave to resistances or stats. Some of the quests were either too important or rewarding to skip, or "why bother" quests...
Not to mention that Acts 1, 2, 3 and 5 all had six quest "boxes" in the quest log. And one of those boxes was always the Act end boss. So it's not like you could get random quest spawns, like in D1. I liked that system, in fact, I feel like the random events in D3 kinda mirror that a bit. I could start a new character in D1, I don't know if I'll get the Butcher...I don't know if I'll get the Poisoned Water Supply...I don't know if I'll get the Black Mushroom...or Arkaine's Valor (they should remake that in D3...in Loot 2.0, that'd be epic)...or the Halls of the Blind...or the Chamber of Bone...none of those were definite.
But in D2, all the quests appeared in every character's game, and there weren't that many. So I'm a big fan of D3's existing random events. True, they could be harder, and absolutely more rewarding beyond an NV stack and a little XP.
I do agree that it'd be fun to have side-quests, but like Bleu pointed out...Adventure Mode seems to have a lot of side-things to get done and partake in, so...even if the Story Mode doesn't get side-quest type stuff to do, Adventure Mode sure will
Diablo 2 didn't really have random events to be honest. It was more about map randomization than anything else. If I enter the cow level, "am I going to spawn inside the Cow Kind's lair, next to a large pack or will I be safe?".
I like Diablo 3's randomization (random events and optional dungeon) over Diablo 2's (random generated map and monsters). I like Diablo 1's random events over Diablo 3's because they usually required some investment.
Now, as for MMOs... I don't really play MMOs but most of their side-quest are just time sink >_> "Kill X monsters or collect Y materials". I want more side quests, but I don't want to have uninspiring side quests.
That I can agree with 1000%.
I haven't really played many MMOs, but most of them I have played, like you said, the quests are usually the same...they're either fetch quests or kill this or that...go here, go there. In fact, even the story quests usually manifest the same way, so I rarely read all the text necessary for the story, I usually just get impatient and want to head out and do it, so I read the synopsis and skip the talking. At least in MMOs. Well...if this is the case, then maybe you won't be so into Bounties or the Devil's Hand or Gheed's Machine. But I do agree, some quality formal side-quests would be nice.
In regard to this, I think part of the downside of random "events" in D3, while I like them a lot, is that they start and end kinda fast, ya know? You're out wandering, you see some familiar art, and you go, "oh look, it's Tomb of Khan Dakab" or "oh look, it's Blaze of Glory". But they begin before you have time to really process them, and they typically end really fast, and it's just over and done with. Onto the next thing.
I'd love to see a side-quest or event put something on my quest log, and it requires me to actually go to a few different places, talk to a variety of different people, kill a few monsters...all in one. Like you said...investment!
I was just going to point out that TL2, generally, has a really good "side-quest" model. The only criticisim I'd have is that there aren't enough, so you tend to do the same ones over and over and over again. Then again, I'm not really sure that D3 players would enjoy them because they tend to involve you running around a good bit and that KILLS EFFICIENCY.
The "efficiency" comes from our new information age internet culture. People want to be like Kripp. They want to be #1. They want to emulate Alkaizer. I find that I enjoy D3 a LOT more when I'm *not* playing like that. The moment I start worring about XP/hr and all that happy horseshit it really detracts from the experience.
But when every build is measured against whether it can clear MP10 well, how much XP/hr it can pull, how many demonic essences/hr it can farm.... that's going to be what people focus on... even though I fully agree that efficiency as a sole focus is extraordinarily tedious. I'm not a professional gamer and I don't find that fun (in any game).
If you offer the players a great experience, efficiency aside, there would be a choice.