Should we be stocking up on gems now? Without the auction house, personal trading will become the way of the future. Without an auction house, why will people need incredibly large sums of gold (Billions). Instant access to gems and trading materials will plummet immediately. People will always need gems, its just a fact.
However, here's my train of thought. Currently, the highest level of gem that drops is flawless square. It takes hundreds of flawless squares to make a single form of the highest tradeable gem (the radiant stars). To farm a single radiant star on your own could take days to weeks depending on your luck. Should those with billions of gold start investing in gems now? Will they become our standard trade currency? I believe they will.
In diablo 2, our standard for trading currency was Perfect skulls, and then in Lord of Destruction our trading currency was converted into high runes, if you remember correctly. That is because these are a commodity that every player wants and needs to reach the highest levels of gaming in this environment, and they are difficult and time consuming to farm, thus its value.
Im currently considering buying 20-30+ Of each of the radiant star gems. I wont need my gold next year to buy items on the auction house and i cant immagine NPC prices being in the millions. Should we buy now, or will there be drawbacks?
What are the chances of some other commodity style item being added to the game? Will gems of a higher quality than flawless square start being put on the drop tables, will marquis gems maintain their bind on account status? What are the odds of gem upgrading being reduced, to make it a more feasible task for players to get a top level gem without investing hundreds of hours.
These are my questions, and i think these are very important questions for the future of wealth in diablo 3.
I may be out-of-date, but I believe you can make gems through the jeweler for roughly the same price that they sell on the AH. The AH gems just allow you to skip that step.
Sooooo, you COULD blow all your gold on gems now, or wait and see if the jeweler is getting any improvements in the xpack.
I think its still hard to predict what the standard currency will be because of the lack of information about the new item upgrade systems. And since the price of RS gems is unlikely to rise substantially due to the fixed crafting cost, but could drop if, for instance higher grades of gems will drop in RoS, there's no reason to invest in them now as opposed to waiting until more information is available (after blizzcon).
That's my current read on the economy anyway, but you won't multiply your wealth by playing it safe, so if you're willing to take the risk on your hunch, might as well.
There could be a lot of things that Blizzard could decide to do for loot 2.0/RoS
- Radiant Star Gems could now drop at lvl 70 and new tiers of gems will be made (plus crafting cost for marquise might be reduced..)
- They dilute everyone's Gold in their stash by a %... reset the economy almost ...
- introduce a new currency - similar to demonic essences type of commodity drops - where to buy enhancements/make new gem upgrades/blacksmith crafting we need to find and use this new currency. So having 100 Billion gold might be semi-worthless apart from repairing/ buying potions and few other things in game here and there.
I think its still hard to predict what the standard currency will be because of the lack of information about the new item upgrade systems. And since the price of RS gems is unlikely to rise substantially due to the fixed crafting cost, but could drop if, for instance higher grades of gems will drop in RoS, there's no reason to invest in them now as opposed to waiting until more information is available (after blizzcon).
That's my current read on the economy anyway, but you won't multiply your wealth by playing it safe, so if you're willing to take the risk on your hunch, might as well.
With the price of AH gems being close to cost for gems from the jeweler and the real possibility that RoS will drop a higher level gem from monsters.... I wouldn't speculate in gem futures.
If they increase the price of making gems in RoS, then it might be profitable. But, if they decrease or stay the same, it wouldn't be a good idea to stockpile.
Stockpiling gold, however, might be worth the risk. If more meaningful gold sinks come out via enchanting and other systems, then gold might have more value going forward into the expansion.
I think most ppl will start playing ladder, and maybe not really care about noneladder some time, so imo theres no point in saving anything :).. only you gear so you can play your chars :P.
Unless there are some awesome casual player catering items ladder-only, like low-level runewords in D2, I won't play ladder.
I HATE losing all my achievements and character progression just because some Wizard of Oz decides to push the magic button. It goes against my definition of RPG. Hopefully I can stay away from ladder and gear up my character for years.
They will most likely increase the gem drop quality by quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped star and or reduced the amount of gems needed to upgrade to the highest level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn’t...
I don't know if stock piling gems right now is worth it. They just jumped in price from 21m to 37m. Though they are starting to drop. I think once they bottom out again it will be worth buying them.
However, I do believe the ONLY safe bet is gems.(Aside from FG) Gold can not be the #1 currency any longer and investing in crafting mats now can really backfire. With gems while they may lose value, they are going to lose a lot less value than any of your other alternatives.
If they introduce new crafting mats, then all of the current mats become worthless. If not then you're barely worse off than you were had you bought gems. The only thing that would change this, is if crafting materials become upgradable.
In the end I would be surprised if people were going to sit on much more than 2B going into the expac. There's just way too much risk to be sitting on 100B + when the next day comes and it's worth next to nothing. Keep in mind this day will NOT be RoS release. It will be during the beta or Blizzcon when more info is known about the crafting systems, gold drop rate, etc.
However, I do believe the ONLY safe bet is gems.(Aside from FG) Gold can not be the #1 currency any longer and investing in crafting mats now can really backfire. With gems while they may lose value, they are going to lose a lot less value than any of your other alternatives.
What makes you say that? Why can't gold be the #1 currency any longer?
And why should gems be safer than gold? Have you ever played WoW - any kind of socketable became absolutely useless in the next expansion, and I could totally see ~3 new levels of gems in RoS and a much higher tier drop, making all gems drop in price by an insane amount and making the gem crafting experience much better than it is now.
All this is like playing stocks at NYSE. The safe harbor could be gold, gems, materials, rare items.... but if you want to be 100% sure to not lose anything just cash out and buy some gold once RoS hits (illegal, though, but the only 100% safe way [98% if you're European ;-)]).
What makes you say that? Why can't gold be the #1 currency any longer?
And why should gems be safer than gold? Have you ever played WoW - any kind of socketable became absolutely useless in the next expansion, and I could totally see ~3 new levels of gems in RoS and a much higher tier drop, making all gems drop in price by an insane amount and making the gem crafting experience much better than it is now.
All this is like playing stocks at NYSE. The safe harbor could be gold, gems, materials, rare items.... but if you want to be 100% sure to not lose anything just cash out and buy some gold once RoS hits (illegal, though, but the only 100% safe way [98% if you're European ;-)]).
Gold isn't going to buy you your perfect item from me anymore. Because I won't be able to buy my perfect item for gold. Since the limiting factor in crafting/enchanting and getting the best gem is the materials. The costs on the console for crafting has been reduced a lot.
If I go into the expansion with only 2B Gold, I wont need to worry about gold @ the current costs for over 25k crafts. Do you really think I'm going to take even 1B in gold then vs 750k in crafting mats then... I don't even think you would take the gold over the crafting mats.
So you might be thinking "oh well we will have to level up the mystic" well that's not a gold sink, they have to make it accessible to joe shmoe so it's not going to cost billions to max out. Then once it's done you'll need MATS to make use of it, in fact I remember mats being the limiting factor in leveling up the artisans on day 1.
There's nothing you can say that would take away the usefulness of gems as much as I can say that would take away the usefulness of gold or current crafting mats. So I stand by my opinion that gems are the only safe bet in game because you'll be able to upgrade them.
If you understood the market, you'd realize the biggest risk is in gold and crafting mats but so is the most gain. While gems are likely to decrease in value they will be useful, you can't say the same for gold in large quantities or crafting mats.
Btw the only safe method is to sell your excess off for FG. With the AH gone jsp will be the primary forum used for trading. Which in turn will increase the value of FG. You won't be able to buy the best items on 3rd party sites because you won't be able to dupe. Besides 3rd party sites get a lot of their "godly" items from jsp to begin with.
Gold isn't going to buy you your perfect item from me anymore. Because the limiting factor in crafting/enchanting and getting the best gem is the materials. The costs on the console for crafting has been reduced a lot.
If I go into the expansion with only 2B Gold, I wont need to worry about gold @ the current costs for over 25k crafts. Do you really think I'm going to take even 1B in gold then vs 750k in crafting mats then... I don't even think you would take the gold over the crafting mats.
What about additional gold sinks? Mystic for example.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Gold isn't going to buy you your perfect item from me anymore. Because the limiting factor in crafting/enchanting and getting the best gem is the materials. The costs on the console for crafting has been reduced a lot.
If I go into the expansion with only 2B Gold, I wont need to worry about gold @ the current costs for over 25k crafts. Do you really think I'm going to take even 1B in gold then vs 750k in crafting mats then... I don't even think you would take the gold over the crafting mats.
What about additional gold sinks? Mystic for example.
Gems have always been a way to counter inflation. Just that alone lets me think yes, it is a good idea to stock up on gems now.
and what if the basic dropped gems in the expansion are the radiant stars?
Then you'll have a lot of radiant stars? It's still better than gold being worthless and current mats becoming the new hell mats. It's also the least likely thing to happen.
I had considered crafting mats but basically came to the same conclusion - potentially they have a high upside but I figure there are at least several scenarios that would devastate their carry over value:
a) Their is an entirely new tier of materials for items ilvl 63-70 They greatly decrease the amount needed for each craft
c) They increase the amount of materials you get from one salvage
d) They add a new drop only BoA item to all high level crafts (essences)
I've never had 150M gold - so by most standards I am stupidly poor but given my play time compared to a casual player I know I have still had at least 10x as much gold move through my account. Current crafting for me is gold limited, while the insanely rich are essence limited - ,materials in either case are a minor complication. I'm guessing they will maintain the essence limiting factor to crafting (you have to play a lot to craft a lot).
None of those situations points to a surge in the value of materials.
I'd say that expect to have a new tier of Essence, Rare Material, and Legendary Material with some way to convert older materials into the newer ones, so if you want to gamble on that and get a new head start on the next tier of crafting then invest in some.
Gems I'm a little iffy on, like others I expect there will be a higher tier dropped @70.
I'd say that expect to have a new tier of Essence, Rare Material, and Legendary Material with some way to convert older materials into the newer ones, so if you want to gamble on that and get a new head start on the next tier of crafting then invest in some.
Gems I'm a little iffy on, like others I expect there will be a higher tier dropped @70.
So you're banking on potentially being able to upgrade mats but disregard being to upgrade gems? Because right now we know you can upgrade gems. The system would have to be reversed for it to be useless. With mats the system would have to change in your favor, though it 's possible. It's less likely that they would reverse being able to upgrade gems, since that would undermine the entire artisan.
Just to reiterate, you think -
Gems are risky because new ones will come out. Yet you can't upgrade them?
Current mats can be upgraded into new mats.
If Blizzard adds 670978435097345079 gems it's to reset the economy. If they do that, you can bet it's happening to everything else. There's no reason for them to create more than 1 more tier of gem, common, uncommon, rare, or legendary material. Unless they are trying to reset the economy as I said.
I'd say that expect to have a new tier of Essence, Rare Material, and Legendary Material with some way to convert older materials into the newer ones, so if you want to gamble on that and get a new head start on the next tier of crafting then invest in some.
Gems I'm a little iffy on, like others I expect there will be a higher tier dropped @70.
So you're banking on potentially being able to upgrade mats but disregard being to upgrade gems? Because right now we know you can upgrade gems. The system would have to be reversed for it to be useless. With mats the system would have to change in your favor, though it 's possible. It's less likely that they would reverse being able to upgrade gems, since that would undermine the entire artisan.
Just to reiterate, you think -
Gems are risky because new ones will come out. Yet you can't upgrade them?
Current mats can be upgraded into new mats.
If Blizzard adds 670978435097345079 gems it's to reset the economy. If they do that, you can bet it's happening to everything else. There's no reason for them to create more than 1 more tier of gem, common, uncommon, rare, or legendary material. Unless they are trying to reset the economy as I said.
If they don't introduce a new tier of crafting materials I'm ahead by having a bunch to craft with, if they do add a way to convert up considering they have for all current tiers of materials (10:1 ratio) then I have a hoard of old materials I can make useful. Since they're also reducing the amount of loot that drops I think having some on had to possibly use isn't a bad way to prepare.
Gems I'm iffy on because I'm banking on a higher drop rate / higher quality gem dropping. These will further dilute your crafting materials. On that note what are gems / tomes considered as item-wise? Magical or Rare?
We already know they're going to have one new crafting material from white items and one new type of gem (Diamond). Blizzard also has a history of adding a new tier of materials in expansions.
However, here's my train of thought. Currently, the highest level of gem that drops is flawless square. It takes hundreds of flawless squares to make a single form of the highest tradeable gem (the radiant stars). To farm a single radiant star on your own could take days to weeks depending on your luck. Should those with billions of gold start investing in gems now? Will they become our standard trade currency? I believe they will.
In diablo 2, our standard for trading currency was Perfect skulls, and then in Lord of Destruction our trading currency was converted into high runes, if you remember correctly. That is because these are a commodity that every player wants and needs to reach the highest levels of gaming in this environment, and they are difficult and time consuming to farm, thus its value.
Im currently considering buying 20-30+ Of each of the radiant star gems. I wont need my gold next year to buy items on the auction house and i cant immagine NPC prices being in the millions. Should we buy now, or will there be drawbacks?
What are the chances of some other commodity style item being added to the game? Will gems of a higher quality than flawless square start being put on the drop tables, will marquis gems maintain their bind on account status? What are the odds of gem upgrading being reduced, to make it a more feasible task for players to get a top level gem without investing hundreds of hours.
These are my questions, and i think these are very important questions for the future of wealth in diablo 3.
Sooooo, you COULD blow all your gold on gems now, or wait and see if the jeweler is getting any improvements in the xpack.
That's my current read on the economy anyway, but you won't multiply your wealth by playing it safe, so if you're willing to take the risk on your hunch, might as well.
- Radiant Star Gems could now drop at lvl 70 and new tiers of gems will be made (plus crafting cost for marquise might be reduced..)
- They dilute everyone's Gold in their stash by a %... reset the economy almost ...
- introduce a new currency - similar to demonic essences type of commodity drops - where to buy enhancements/make new gem upgrades/blacksmith crafting we need to find and use this new currency. So having 100 Billion gold might be semi-worthless apart from repairing/ buying potions and few other things in game here and there.
With the price of AH gems being close to cost for gems from the jeweler and the real possibility that RoS will drop a higher level gem from monsters.... I wouldn't speculate in gem futures.
If they increase the price of making gems in RoS, then it might be profitable. But, if they decrease or stay the same, it wouldn't be a good idea to stockpile.
Stockpiling gold, however, might be worth the risk. If more meaningful gold sinks come out via enchanting and other systems, then gold might have more value going forward into the expansion.
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ModeratorUnless there are some awesome casual player catering items ladder-only, like low-level runewords in D2, I won't play ladder.
I HATE losing all my achievements and character progression just because some Wizard of Oz decides to push the magic button. It goes against my definition of RPG. Hopefully I can stay away from ladder and gear up my character for years.
However, I do believe the ONLY safe bet is gems.(Aside from FG) Gold can not be the #1 currency any longer and investing in crafting mats now can really backfire. With gems while they may lose value, they are going to lose a lot less value than any of your other alternatives.
If they introduce new crafting mats, then all of the current mats become worthless. If not then you're barely worse off than you were had you bought gems. The only thing that would change this, is if crafting materials become upgradable.
In the end I would be surprised if people were going to sit on much more than 2B going into the expac. There's just way too much risk to be sitting on 100B + when the next day comes and it's worth next to nothing. Keep in mind this day will NOT be RoS release. It will be during the beta or Blizzcon when more info is known about the crafting systems, gold drop rate, etc.
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ModeratorWhat makes you say that? Why can't gold be the #1 currency any longer?
And why should gems be safer than gold? Have you ever played WoW - any kind of socketable became absolutely useless in the next expansion, and I could totally see ~3 new levels of gems in RoS and a much higher tier drop, making all gems drop in price by an insane amount and making the gem crafting experience much better than it is now.
All this is like playing stocks at NYSE. The safe harbor could be gold, gems, materials, rare items.... but if you want to be 100% sure to not lose anything just cash out and buy some gold once RoS hits (illegal, though, but the only 100% safe way [98% if you're European ;-)]).
Gold isn't going to buy you your perfect item from me anymore. Because I won't be able to buy my perfect item for gold. Since the limiting factor in crafting/enchanting and getting the best gem is the materials. The costs on the console for crafting has been reduced a lot.
If I go into the expansion with only 2B Gold, I wont need to worry about gold @ the current costs for over 25k crafts. Do you really think I'm going to take even 1B in gold then vs 750k in crafting mats then... I don't even think you would take the gold over the crafting mats.
So you might be thinking "oh well we will have to level up the mystic" well that's not a gold sink, they have to make it accessible to joe shmoe so it's not going to cost billions to max out. Then once it's done you'll need MATS to make use of it, in fact I remember mats being the limiting factor in leveling up the artisans on day 1.
There's nothing you can say that would take away the usefulness of gems as much as I can say that would take away the usefulness of gold or current crafting mats. So I stand by my opinion that gems are the only safe bet in game because you'll be able to upgrade them.
If you understood the market, you'd realize the biggest risk is in gold and crafting mats but so is the most gain. While gems are likely to decrease in value they will be useful, you can't say the same for gold in large quantities or crafting mats.
Btw the only safe method is to sell your excess off for FG. With the AH gone jsp will be the primary forum used for trading. Which in turn will increase the value of FG. You won't be able to buy the best items on 3rd party sites because you won't be able to dupe. Besides 3rd party sites get a lot of their "godly" items from jsp to begin with.
What about additional gold sinks? Mystic for example.
I was still editing the post but addressed that
Then you'll have a lot of radiant stars? It's still better than gold being worthless and current mats becoming the new hell mats. It's also the least likely thing to happen.
a) Their is an entirely new tier of materials for items ilvl 63-70
c) They increase the amount of materials you get from one salvage
d) They add a new drop only BoA item to all high level crafts (essences)
I've never had 150M gold - so by most standards I am stupidly poor but given my play time compared to a casual player I know I have still had at least 10x as much gold move through my account. Current crafting for me is gold limited, while the insanely rich are essence limited - ,materials in either case are a minor complication. I'm guessing they will maintain the essence limiting factor to crafting (you have to play a lot to craft a lot).
None of those situations points to a surge in the value of materials.
Gems I'm a little iffy on, like others I expect there will be a higher tier dropped @70.
So you're banking on potentially being able to upgrade mats but disregard being to upgrade gems? Because right now we know you can upgrade gems. The system would have to be reversed for it to be useless. With mats the system would have to change in your favor, though it 's possible. It's less likely that they would reverse being able to upgrade gems, since that would undermine the entire artisan.
Just to reiterate, you think -
Gems are risky because new ones will come out. Yet you can't upgrade them?
Current mats can be upgraded into new mats.
If Blizzard adds 670978435097345079 gems it's to reset the economy. If they do that, you can bet it's happening to everything else. There's no reason for them to create more than 1 more tier of gem, common, uncommon, rare, or legendary material. Unless they are trying to reset the economy as I said.
If they don't introduce a new tier of crafting materials I'm ahead by having a bunch to craft with, if they do add a way to convert up considering they have for all current tiers of materials (10:1 ratio) then I have a hoard of old materials I can make useful. Since they're also reducing the amount of loot that drops I think having some on had to possibly use isn't a bad way to prepare.
Gems I'm iffy on because I'm banking on a higher drop rate / higher quality gem dropping. These will further dilute your crafting materials. On that note what are gems / tomes considered as item-wise? Magical or Rare?
We already know they're going to have one new crafting material from white items and one new type of gem (Diamond). Blizzard also has a history of adding a new tier of materials in expansions.
This made me lol a lot.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
This made me lol a lot.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477