Let's take it easy with the quote pyramids. I've edited a few posts to make things easier on the eyes (lemme know if you notice a mistake in your post).
2) Most players feel some change must be made. Adding the 'Yes' votes with the 'No, but changes must be made' as well as the 14% that voted against one of the AH's individually, an overwhelming majority has some issue with the AH's.
There's kind of a problem with that, though.
Some people want the change to be that you can post as many items as they want - that's outright stupid, no hardware can handle that kind of crap. Some people want changes to the "bidding" system, so people can't "snipe" items. The current system is as close to a fair system as a bidding system can be. Don't want to be sniped? Just bid the highest amount you're willing to pay for the item. The ones complaining they got "sniped" are probably the ones who thought they were gonna get a Witching Hour for 3k gold and make 5 million gold instantly. Some people want just the comparison tooltip (and voted for that), or other minor/slight changes. Some people want no RMAH. Some people want more lasting auctions.
It's just wrong to put these all together and say "all these people think there's something seriously wrong with the AHs", when that's simply not true.
That is the reason I personally didn't choose that poll option (even though I'd like some changes), because I knew it would be severely misinterpreted.
I had hoped, maybe in err, that people would take option #5 (No, but some changes should be made) as meaning they like the idea and presence of the AH's, they support their existence in-game, but they feel changes need to be made because, due to any number of factors, the AH's influence the game negatively.
It didn't occur to me that people may choose option #5 because they feel some UI changes need to be made. Or perhaps they're unhappy with the bidding system as is.
Option #5 was meant for players to voice their support of the AH's while conceding that some critical functionality of the AH's needs to be changed.
Anyone whom choose #5 for a benign reason like UI or bidding issues should delete their vote and recast it in the appropriate spot.
Thanks to all for the overwhelming response and participation in this poll. I feel it helps players find a common ground when they get a better, more clear, idea of where other players stand on this issue.
Since seeing this thread and realising others have been thinking the same as me, I decided to go to the official forums to see what the opinion was there. I'm quite amazed how many players want the AH removed, or for there to at least be an option to have it turned off.
Sadly, the official forums, are a very extreme example of the "vocal minority." Many blues across many games have been forthright about the fact that very few of the players actually use the forums and, generally, it's the people who are disgruntled over those who are content.
Hell, until this poll, one might have concluded that DiabloFans users wanted the Auction Houses removed too. There was a lot of people who portrayed what turns out to be a minority opinion as the will of the majority... even around here. It's even worse on the official forums. People have given up on them, except for "good topics" for that exact reason.
I can all but guarantee that if you polled all 3ish million people who are playing D3 at this point that you're going to see 70%+ of people who want the AHs to remain, whether it's in their current fashion or with some changes. What you have to do is realize that the people who make the noise are doing so because they know they get under people's skin.
I remember not even 4 weeks into D3 people were claiming that the population was under 100k. The official forums were screaming that the game was terrible, that it was dead, etc. We all knew that was bullshit. We know the idea that the majority of the players wanting the AH removed is.... simply untrue.
Even most self-found people I know don't care about the AH. They just want a way for self-found to feel a bit more rewarding than it currently does. Every single one of my friends I've talked to about the subject has told me, more or less, that if I like the AH more power to me and that the AH just doesn't effect them - their concern is with getting changes that make self-found rewarding and enjoyable, not with stamping out other peoples fun.
That's why you see a lot of people simply asking for a "self-found checkbox" - it's one of the most logical middlegrounds on the subject.
Both AH's should stay but need better tool tip's for item comparsion and Normal AH needs cap's put in place on Amour/weapon prices like the RMAH. At the moment the gold farmers/duppers own the top range items (7+ items are exatly the same).
I had hoped, maybe in err, that people would take option #5 (No, but some changes should be made) as meaning they like the idea and presence of the AH's, they support their existence in-game, but they feel changes need to be made because, due to any number of factors, the AH's influence the game negatively.
It didn't occur to me that people may choose option #5 because they feel some UI changes need to be made. Or perhaps they're unhappy with the bidding system as is.
Option #5 was meant for players to voice their support of the AH's while conceding that some critical functionality of the AH's needs to be changed.
Anyone whom choose #5 for a benign reason like UI or bidding issues should delete their vote and recast it in the appropriate spot.
The current results could already reflect that stance (and people might have voted with that in mind).
I was just pointing out a possibility (based on the variety of feedback and suggestions that I've read both here and the official forums); and advising against making conclusions, specially considering how many players blame the AHs without fully understanding their effects on the game (and just following dumb doctrines like "everyone who has top-notch gear used the RMAH" or "I can't find good gear because of the RMAH").
I think they should be removed - I also mainly think the only people lobbying to keep them around are those who consider themselves to be wealthy; losing something like an auction house might upset them because they would be losing acquired currency or otherwise valuable objects.
Or those that just want a comfortable way to look for new items ?
Instead of the GAH or RMAH a Trade House would be ideal. You can list your items, maybe some keywords for what you want in a trade that people can search.
Sorry, but that is just idiotic. The only thing a currency ( gold ) does is to make the life of traders easier. You realy think the currency is the fault of the system ? Why would everything be much better when you have to memorise the values of every item and then piece together some trades with gems and runes and little shit getting added and removed to get the value of the trade correctly ? Gold is so much easier than a trading system. People started realising that in the time of the ancient romans! Why would we go back to a money-less system ? Are you out of your mind ?
Without getting too technical, it is a well known issue of currency and economics where a closed system like our gold system leads to perpetual inflation, which is not good. Secondly, it is also well known that bartering style economies are well studied and extremely reliable. The game is very simple, the mechanics that drive items to be good are very transparent. That being said, it would be very easy to identify a quality item compared to a turd. For example, the best items in slot typically include any of the combination of bonus to average damage or % to damage, critical hit chance, critical hit damage, and attack speed, why? because everyone can use those stats, and they are the single largest damage modifiers in the game. The Trade House I've described would be very similar to the search functionality of the Auction house. You can still search whatever item features you wish (I still think they need to add a few item qualities that are currently not searchable for the particular legendary item they are on) By entering the same exact stats you search with now, the same exact items pop up, you have an ability to bid items for trade - with a limitation that you can only link up an item that you own. I think it would be cool if Blizzard incorporated the ability to give a temporary "clone" of the item, so you could try it out for a few hours but not commit to the trade. It would obviously be account bound and have a specific expiration period. Provided you liked what you were offered you can go in and accept the deal, or perhaps message back and say you want something included, maybe a little gold or some other item. I think a trade house has a much clearer use than you might have thought.
How will all you derps trade items if they remove the AH?
You keep forgetting Diablo 2, where we had to make our own AH's out of the game with stupid forum auctions and stuff. It was WAY WORSE. You had to "play" the forums more than you played the game. You realy want that back ?
If you dont wanna buy items, play selffound. Leave the AH for all the others who like a easy way of trading.
This nonsence realy has to stop. The AH is not the root of the problem. Stop dreaming.
How will all you derps trade items if they remove the AH?
You keep forgetting Diablo 2, where we had to make our own AH's out of the game with stupid forum auctions and stuff. It was WAY WORSE. You had to "play" the forums more than you played the game. You realy want that back ?
If you dont wanna buy items, play selffound. Leave the AH for all the others who like a easy way of trading.
This nonsence realy has to stop. The AH is not the root of the problem. Stop dreaming.
No. Diablo 2 was very playable and enjoyable without trading with others on forums etc.
The issue with Diablo 3 (or one of many), and the AHs, is that it is not really enjoyable to play without the AH. And that is not positive.
Yes, trading was annoying in Diablo 2, but it isn't much of a problem that trading is annoying and difficult to facilitate, if trading isn't very beneficial or interesting in the first place.
Then most people can just ignore trading and play the game instead, while the ones who want to trade, would unfortunately have to go trough more annoying steps to do so. The benefits of a better game far outweighs the benefits of easier trading for tradeaholics though.
In a perfect world you could certainly accomplish to make both a good game and good trading options, but I'm not sure it's doable in ours.
If this can be done, by all means, keep GAH (RMAH should kinda die no matter what, since that one is just silly). But the big question is, how?
Understanding democracy and public opinion isn't one of your strengths, right? Look at the poll again, only about 1/3 of voters want the RMAH to be removed. Maybe YOU think it's silly and YOU think it should die, but majority of players disagrees with you.
What does democracy and public opinion has to do with just about anything?
It doesn't matter if 95% thought 'something about something', if they are wrong*...
Hell, often people really prefer something else than they say they do, they just don't know yet, because the other options aren't as clear and readily available to them - as what they already have.
It is not exactly a surprise that people prefer the existing in general. We are conservative by nature.
*Now who is going to say who is wrong and who isn't? No one are. Again, its beside the point what the majority think, or what is right and wrong. Blizzard should do what they feel are best for their game.
I unsurprisingly hope they do what I like, you hope they do what you like, but one thing is for sure, it would be sad if they just did whatever the majority wanted.
@Shadout: Okay, I agree that people just vote for what they *want*, but not necessarily for what they *need*.
I also agree that the human mind in general tends to be conservative (well, some of us at least). Which ties nicely back to your post... using D2 as argument for why "no AH" would be better.
However, you can't turn back time - we're not in 2000 anymore where 90% of people play offline. Furthermore, players have seen the AH by now, if you take it back they'll search for other ways (i.e., third party sites and other sources of scam). Another thing about the human brain: once tainted there's no way back.
Removal of AH is not an option, period. If you want proper arguments and don't respect majority's opinion in this thread, go read the developer journals, blueposts, and "ask the devs". It was stated often enough that Blizzard regrets how the AH changed the game, but you can't make this damage undone.
Here is a much bigger, fairer (tho they who aren't active any longer are much fewer that looks into the forums) poll, where removal is leading big, followed by charachter option http://diablo.incgam...3-auction-house
You gotta be kidding me.
1) That poll seems to have been created by a five year old. Worst phrasing of poll options I've ever seen, leading as hell.
2) No sign-up required, everyone can vote as often as they want. If any sane human mind would give a damn about this stupid poll, one could easily turn it around and exploit it.
3) This poll was brought up earlier; still, I can't express how bad I feel about this. It's clearly an idea stolen from this website, and they don't give the OP who created the poll here any credit. One of the most disgusting things on the Internet is that people go and steal others' intellectual property. (Btw, this does not only happen in forums but even in the renowned press nowadays.)
Okay, I agree that people just vote for what they *want*, but not necessarily for what they *need*.
I also agree that the human mind in general tends to be conservative (well, some of us at least). Which ties nicely back to your post... using D2 as argument for why "no AH" would be better.
However, you can't turn back time - we're not in 2000 anymore where 90% of people play offline. Furthermore, players have seen the AH by now, if you take it back they'll search for other ways (i.e., third party sites and other sources of scam). Another thing about the human brain: once tainted there's no way back.
Removal of AH is not an option, period. If you want proper arguments and don't respect majority's opinion in this thread, go read the developer journals, blueposts, and "ask the devs". It was stated often enough that Blizzard regrets how the AH changed the game, but you can't make this damage undone.
I can respect peoples opinions just fine, even if I don't think that means the majority are necessarily right
I don't think I used D2 as a proof that "no AH" is better. Simply that Diablo 2 wasn't bad even though it had bad trading.
I think there are quite a few things D3 does better than D2, but the joy of finding items are very much not one of them in my opinion.
Comparisons between games are not really interesting though. Something being better in one game than another, doesn't necessarily mean that it's good in either, which more often than not makes comparison arguments meaningless.
I'm well aware removing AH probably isn't an option Blizzard will ever use. Nonetheless, I think it would be one of the easier good options. Not the best option as I said earlier, since the best option obviously would be to have good gameplay when it comes to item hunting, and good trading at the same time. But I really do believe that these two concepts are at odds with each other.
I very much agree that if you took AH away now, people would flock to third parties. Which is one of the reasons I don't think removing AHs is a perfect option. Just better than some of the alternatives.
Which sadly, in my opinion, works as an argument for introducing more Bind on pickup itemization to Diablo 3. I say "sadly", because Bind on pickup in itself is not very fun or nice to have - and in theory most games would be better without it - but at the same time it's a very effective (and arguably too effective) way to restrict trading and add value to finding your gear in the game.
Bind-on-pickup (or technically on account) is probably the only viable alternative I can see to removing AH (or limiting AH to a degree where it might as well be removed), but in some way, introducing a lot of BoP/BOA is the same as removing AH, just through an indirect method.
So I guess my argument isn't so much that AH has to be removed/severely limited, but that trading has to be Pretty much same thing though.
There we go That sounds much more well-reasoned than the previous "RMAH is silly and it needs to die" :-)
Yeah, the AH is the real "damage", not (just) the RMAH. It makes trading "too easy". And yeah, removal won't work, and yeah, BoA is - until now - the only working solution that Blizzard has found to counter it. Though I don't think BoA should be the only solution, and Blizzard thinks so too.
I think it would be nice if items acquired through the AH would be "untradable" for one week. Would at least make flipping harder and reduce the amount of spontaneous purchasing. Also, some delay for using the buyout button. However, the problem with all these options is that it just draws people away to third party sites - and Blizzard can't do little to avoid third party trading.
I do think RMAH is silly and should die! Not because of how it might affect the game - I do not think RMAH affects the game differently from how GAH affects it.
I'm just very fundamentally against any concept of mixing real money with games under any circumstances.
So, while it doesn't harm Diablo 3 much directly (other than the ways GAH already does), I very much believe stuff like RMAH hurts gaming in the long run.
P.S. Just to clarify, I don't think BoA could be a single solution to the "item hunting" gameplay either. Nor would removing AH. Clearly there is not one single solution that could fix everything. It will require lots and lots of different changes for various aspect of the game.
I think a trading cooldown on items to combat flipping would be welcome too. It would not in any way affect "item hunting" in-game though. More of a solution specifically for improving trading itself.
Better droprates on their own will change nearly nothing in this regard. It would only drive prices down on AH, leaving us with the same benefits of using AH over finding your own items as now.
Improving drop QUALITY not QUANTITY is a nice fix for gameplay. Prices will going down but players could play without AH, and only top players/elitists will use AH. And with more affixes combinations not only trifectas AH will be nice too.
Yeah. I meant drop quality as well.
Higher drop quality = increase of droprates for high quality items. Same thing. The result is more quality items that can be placed on AH => Lower prices on said items.
Unfortunately I doubt that just because it becomes easier to find useful items in-game that people will stop using AH. What matters to people is how much easier it is to use AH than to play the game. Which will be unchanged.
That doesn't mean item droprates shouldn't increase, it just isn't enough on its own. Very far from it even.
Sigh... this has been mentioned before *in this thread*.
Better drops will just shift the entire economy, but they will not solve any problems.
An example: 8 months ago every single Witching Hour was worth a fortune. 4 months ago a WH was available for about 50-100m. Now you get a WH almost for free.
What changes is just the price tag for a specific range of affixes. Right now an EF can roll 700-1300 DPS, and it's worth 1m to 10b (or so). if you change the EF to roll 1100-1300 DPS, the 1100 EF will be worth 1m, but nothing will change; players will still strive for gear that is better, and pay 100m for 1200 DPS. And the price tag for top items will go up as long as there is no effective gold sink (see highest item purchase last summer 1.5b, highest item purchase November 14b, and you see where it's headed).
Please, someone with a degree in economics or so explain this or just link to the Wikipedia page. Improving item quality across the board does not change anything except the affix range players are looking for.
But AH haters and selfound players dont care AH prices no? with more quality items drops, this players will be happy. Economy always go down, only new items patches and expansions and start again.
Self-found players are such a minority (and now I'm being a hypocrite for implying minorities don't matter... but that isn't my point).
The game should be improved for "everyone". Not literally of course, that would be impossible, but it has to be a goal when changes are made, that they try to improve the overall game. Which it wouldn't be, to try and make the game better just for people who place artificial rules upon themselves.
A few points though:
Economy doesn't always go down. Flawed economies go down. More or less every single game economy ever is flawed, since it's close to impossible to make a working economy in a game, for various reasons. Such as 1) time being the only limited resource in gaming, a very stark difference to the real world economy, 2) virtually no barriers to entry into the market (which liberal economists coincidently would consider to be a good thing, but it clearly drives prices down due to higher competition), and 3) maybe most important very weak "item sinks" - just imagine if everything in the real world economy lasted forever.
The solution?
1) Either make a good economy in your game... which is pretty damn hard. Star Wars Galaxies, an otherwise mediocre game, is probably the one that has come closest. Unsurprisingly it had two distinct features of limited resources and many items breaking down over time. Also it was an MMO and thus not very comparable at all to Diablo.
2) Don't make a game where the economy matters...
And another point.
Agreeing with Bagstone, that increasing item quality only increases peoples desire for even higher quality items. 1300 dps will be the new 1100 dps. Just like 800 dps was the new 500 dps early on in the game.
However, there is one minor aspect, beside the ever-increasing desire for higher item quality. It is probably worth to separate "items you need" from "items you want".
- The game (monsters, MP levels etc) are not getting more difficult together with better droprates. So the items required for doing various stuff in the game will remain unchanged. The only difference here will be that the price on AH to get those items will get lower on "items you need". People, especially newer players of course, will continue go to AH for these, as they will be even cheaper now. Doesn't matter they are easier to find in-game too. People will generally take the easier route. And you most certainly can't blame them for that behavior. It is not the players job to limit themselves by imposing self-found rules and similar. A good game is designed to take care of that.
- As for "items you want", their price will remain mostly unchanged in average. The lower tiers will go down in price over time, due to the customer needs being filled slowly over time, whereas the higher tiers of items will go up in price due to the inflation. That happens no matter what the droprates are. Better quality droprates only increase peoples desires.
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Wise ElderI had hoped, maybe in err, that people would take option #5 (No, but some changes should be made) as meaning they like the idea and presence of the AH's, they support their existence in-game, but they feel changes need to be made because, due to any number of factors, the AH's influence the game negatively.
It didn't occur to me that people may choose option #5 because they feel some UI changes need to be made. Or perhaps they're unhappy with the bidding system as is.
Option #5 was meant for players to voice their support of the AH's while conceding that some critical functionality of the AH's needs to be changed.
Anyone whom choose #5 for a benign reason like UI or bidding issues should delete their vote and recast it in the appropriate spot.
Thanks to all for the overwhelming response and participation in this poll. I feel it helps players find a common ground when they get a better, more clear, idea of where other players stand on this issue.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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Sadly, the official forums, are a very extreme example of the "vocal minority." Many blues across many games have been forthright about the fact that very few of the players actually use the forums and, generally, it's the people who are disgruntled over those who are content.
Hell, until this poll, one might have concluded that DiabloFans users wanted the Auction Houses removed too. There was a lot of people who portrayed what turns out to be a minority opinion as the will of the majority... even around here. It's even worse on the official forums. People have given up on them, except for "good topics" for that exact reason.
I can all but guarantee that if you polled all 3ish million people who are playing D3 at this point that you're going to see 70%+ of people who want the AHs to remain, whether it's in their current fashion or with some changes. What you have to do is realize that the people who make the noise are doing so because they know they get under people's skin.
I remember not even 4 weeks into D3 people were claiming that the population was under 100k. The official forums were screaming that the game was terrible, that it was dead, etc. We all knew that was bullshit. We know the idea that the majority of the players wanting the AH removed is.... simply untrue.
Even most self-found people I know don't care about the AH. They just want a way for self-found to feel a bit more rewarding than it currently does. Every single one of my friends I've talked to about the subject has told me, more or less, that if I like the AH more power to me and that the AH just doesn't effect them - their concern is with getting changes that make self-found rewarding and enjoyable, not with stamping out other peoples fun.
That's why you see a lot of people simply asking for a "self-found checkbox" - it's one of the most logical middlegrounds on the subject.
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Wise ElderI was just pointing out a possibility (based on the variety of feedback and suggestions that I've read both here and the official forums); and advising against making conclusions, specially considering how many players blame the AHs without fully understanding their effects on the game (and just following dumb doctrines like "everyone who has top-notch gear used the RMAH" or "I can't find good gear because of the RMAH").
Without getting too technical, it is a well known issue of currency and economics where a closed system like our gold system leads to perpetual inflation, which is not good. Secondly, it is also well known that bartering style economies are well studied and extremely reliable. The game is very simple, the mechanics that drive items to be good are very transparent. That being said, it would be very easy to identify a quality item compared to a turd. For example, the best items in slot typically include any of the combination of bonus to average damage or % to damage, critical hit chance, critical hit damage, and attack speed, why? because everyone can use those stats, and they are the single largest damage modifiers in the game. The Trade House I've described would be very similar to the search functionality of the Auction house. You can still search whatever item features you wish (I still think they need to add a few item qualities that are currently not searchable for the particular legendary item they are on) By entering the same exact stats you search with now, the same exact items pop up, you have an ability to bid items for trade - with a limitation that you can only link up an item that you own. I think it would be cool if Blizzard incorporated the ability to give a temporary "clone" of the item, so you could try it out for a few hours but not commit to the trade. It would obviously be account bound and have a specific expiration period. Provided you liked what you were offered you can go in and accept the deal, or perhaps message back and say you want something included, maybe a little gold or some other item. I think a trade house has a much clearer use than you might have thought.
You keep forgetting Diablo 2, where we had to make our own AH's out of the game with stupid forum auctions and stuff. It was WAY WORSE. You had to "play" the forums more than you played the game. You realy want that back ?
If you dont wanna buy items, play selffound. Leave the AH for all the others who like a easy way of trading.
This nonsence realy has to stop. The AH is not the root of the problem. Stop dreaming.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
The issue with Diablo 3 (or one of many), and the AHs, is that it is not really enjoyable to play without the AH. And that is not positive.
Yes, trading was annoying in Diablo 2, but it isn't much of a problem that trading is annoying and difficult to facilitate, if trading isn't very beneficial or interesting in the first place.
Then most people can just ignore trading and play the game instead, while the ones who want to trade, would unfortunately have to go trough more annoying steps to do so. The benefits of a better game far outweighs the benefits of easier trading for tradeaholics though.
In a perfect world you could certainly accomplish to make both a good game and good trading options, but I'm not sure it's doable in ours.
How do you make a game where people are playing the game to find the items they want to use, while at the same time having free trading?
If this can be done, by all means, keep GAH (RMAH should kinda die no matter what, since that one is just silly). But the big question is, how?
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ModeratorUnderstanding democracy and public opinion isn't one of your strengths, right? Look at the poll again, only about 1/3 of voters want the RMAH to be removed. Maybe YOU think it's silly and YOU think it should die, but majority of players disagrees with you.
It doesn't matter if 95% thought 'something about something', if they are wrong*...
Hell, often people really prefer something else than they say they do, they just don't know yet, because the other options aren't as clear and readily available to them - as what they already have.
It is not exactly a surprise that people prefer the existing in general. We are conservative by nature.
*Now who is going to say who is wrong and who isn't? No one are. Again, its beside the point what the majority think, or what is right and wrong. Blizzard should do what they feel are best for their game.
I unsurprisingly hope they do what I like, you hope they do what you like, but one thing is for sure, it would be sad if they just did whatever the majority wanted.
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ModeratorI also agree that the human mind in general tends to be conservative (well, some of us at least). Which ties nicely back to your post... using D2 as argument for why "no AH" would be better.
However, you can't turn back time - we're not in 2000 anymore where 90% of people play offline. Furthermore, players have seen the AH by now, if you take it back they'll search for other ways (i.e., third party sites and other sources of scam). Another thing about the human brain: once tainted there's no way back.
Removal of AH is not an option, period. If you want proper arguments and don't respect majority's opinion in this thread, go read the developer journals, blueposts, and "ask the devs". It was stated often enough that Blizzard regrets how the AH changed the game, but you can't make this damage undone.
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ModeratorYou gotta be kidding me.
1) That poll seems to have been created by a five year old. Worst phrasing of poll options I've ever seen, leading as hell.
2) No sign-up required, everyone can vote as often as they want. If any sane human mind would give a damn about this stupid poll, one could easily turn it around and exploit it.
3) This poll was brought up earlier; still, I can't express how bad I feel about this. It's clearly an idea stolen from this website, and they don't give the OP who created the poll here any credit. One of the most disgusting things on the Internet is that people go and steal others' intellectual property. (Btw, this does not only happen in forums but even in the renowned press nowadays.)
I can respect peoples opinions just fine, even if I don't think that means the majority are necessarily right
I don't think I used D2 as a proof that "no AH" is better. Simply that Diablo 2 wasn't bad even though it had bad trading.
I think there are quite a few things D3 does better than D2, but the joy of finding items are very much not one of them in my opinion.
Comparisons between games are not really interesting though. Something being better in one game than another, doesn't necessarily mean that it's good in either, which more often than not makes comparison arguments meaningless.
I'm well aware removing AH probably isn't an option Blizzard will ever use. Nonetheless, I think it would be one of the easier good options. Not the best option as I said earlier, since the best option obviously would be to have good gameplay when it comes to item hunting, and good trading at the same time. But I really do believe that these two concepts are at odds with each other.
I very much agree that if you took AH away now, people would flock to third parties. Which is one of the reasons I don't think removing AHs is a perfect option. Just better than some of the alternatives.
Which sadly, in my opinion, works as an argument for introducing more Bind on pickup itemization to Diablo 3. I say "sadly", because Bind on pickup in itself is not very fun or nice to have - and in theory most games would be better without it - but at the same time it's a very effective (and arguably too effective) way to restrict trading and add value to finding your gear in the game.
Bind-on-pickup (or technically on account) is probably the only viable alternative I can see to removing AH (or limiting AH to a degree where it might as well be removed), but in some way, introducing a lot of BoP/BOA is the same as removing AH, just through an indirect method.
So I guess my argument isn't so much that AH has to be removed/severely limited, but that trading has to be
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ModeratorYeah, the AH is the real "damage", not (just) the RMAH. It makes trading "too easy". And yeah, removal won't work, and yeah, BoA is - until now - the only working solution that Blizzard has found to counter it. Though I don't think BoA should be the only solution, and Blizzard thinks so too.
I think it would be nice if items acquired through the AH would be "untradable" for one week. Would at least make flipping harder and reduce the amount of spontaneous purchasing. Also, some delay for using the buyout button. However, the problem with all these options is that it just draws people away to third party sites - and Blizzard can't do little to avoid third party trading.
I'm just very fundamentally against any concept of mixing real money with games under any circumstances.
So, while it doesn't harm Diablo 3 much directly (other than the ways GAH already does), I very much believe stuff like RMAH hurts gaming in the long run.
P.S. Just to clarify, I don't think BoA could be a single solution to the "item hunting" gameplay either. Nor would removing AH. Clearly there is not one single solution that could fix everything. It will require lots and lots of different changes for various aspect of the game.
I think a trading cooldown on items to combat flipping would be welcome too. It would not in any way affect "item hunting" in-game though. More of a solution specifically for improving trading itself.
Higher drop quality = increase of droprates for high quality items. Same thing. The result is more quality items that can be placed on AH => Lower prices on said items.
Unfortunately I doubt that just because it becomes easier to find useful items in-game that people will stop using AH. What matters to people is how much easier it is to use AH than to play the game. Which will be unchanged.
That doesn't mean item droprates shouldn't increase, it just isn't enough on its own. Very far from it even.
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ModeratorBetter drops will just shift the entire economy, but they will not solve any problems.
An example: 8 months ago every single Witching Hour was worth a fortune. 4 months ago a WH was available for about 50-100m. Now you get a WH almost for free.
What changes is just the price tag for a specific range of affixes. Right now an EF can roll 700-1300 DPS, and it's worth 1m to 10b (or so). if you change the EF to roll 1100-1300 DPS, the 1100 EF will be worth 1m, but nothing will change; players will still strive for gear that is better, and pay 100m for 1200 DPS. And the price tag for top items will go up as long as there is no effective gold sink (see highest item purchase last summer 1.5b, highest item purchase November 14b, and you see where it's headed).
Please, someone with a degree in economics or so explain this or just link to the Wikipedia page. Improving item quality across the board does not change anything except the affix range players are looking for.
Self-found players are such a minority (and now I'm being a hypocrite for implying minorities don't matter... but that isn't my point).
The game should be improved for "everyone". Not literally of course, that would be impossible, but it has to be a goal when changes are made, that they try to improve the overall game. Which it wouldn't be, to try and make the game better just for people who place artificial rules upon themselves.
A few points though:
Economy doesn't always go down. Flawed economies go down. More or less every single game economy ever is flawed, since it's close to impossible to make a working economy in a game, for various reasons. Such as 1) time being the only limited resource in gaming, a very stark difference to the real world economy, 2) virtually no barriers to entry into the market (which liberal economists coincidently would consider to be a good thing, but it clearly drives prices down due to higher competition), and 3) maybe most important very weak "item sinks" - just imagine if everything in the real world economy lasted forever.
The solution?
1) Either make a good economy in your game... which is pretty damn hard. Star Wars Galaxies, an otherwise mediocre game, is probably the one that has come closest. Unsurprisingly it had two distinct features of limited resources and many items breaking down over time. Also it was an MMO and thus not very comparable at all to Diablo.
2) Don't make a game where the economy matters...
And another point.
Agreeing with Bagstone, that increasing item quality only increases peoples desire for even higher quality items. 1300 dps will be the new 1100 dps. Just like 800 dps was the new 500 dps early on in the game.
However, there is one minor aspect, beside the ever-increasing desire for higher item quality. It is probably worth to separate "items you need" from "items you want".
- The game (monsters, MP levels etc) are not getting more difficult together with better droprates. So the items required for doing various stuff in the game will remain unchanged. The only difference here will be that the price on AH to get those items will get lower on "items you need". People, especially newer players of course, will continue go to AH for these, as they will be even cheaper now. Doesn't matter they are easier to find in-game too. People will generally take the easier route. And you most certainly can't blame them for that behavior. It is not the players job to limit themselves by imposing self-found rules and similar. A good game is designed to take care of that.
- As for "items you want", their price will remain mostly unchanged in average. The lower tiers will go down in price over time, due to the customer needs being filled slowly over time, whereas the higher tiers of items will go up in price due to the inflation. That happens no matter what the droprates are. Better quality droprates only increase peoples desires.