With all the new Legendary's, skill buff's and class upgrades no one is talking about resist or armor upgrade, they are still part of the reason why so many will never see diablo in inferno, any plans to change or buff those two either via skill or equipment?
With all the new Legendary's, skill buff's and class upgrades no one is talking about resist or armor upgrade, they are still part of the reason why so many will never see diablo in inferno, any plans to change or buff those two either via skill or equipment?
Hmm I doubt there would be any revamping to this extent but the fact that damage output is increasing overall and elite monster health is decreasing makes for much easier times. You should be able to burn through things much easier.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
With all the new Legendary's, skill buff's and class upgrades no one is talking about resist or armor upgrade, they are still part of the reason why so many will never see diablo in inferno, any plans to change or buff those two either via skill or equipment?
Never is an impossibly strong word, and something that's beyond over-used. Given the current pricing trends for middle-of-the-pack gear (read: gear that will get you through most, if not all of Inferno playing intelligently), and the recent announcement that gear is going to get even easier to find than ever before, you can rest assured that there will be resist all and armor aplenty for those who would otherwise "never" get to see Inferno Diablo.
The lack of patience and gold management on the part of those who keep claiming things are "impossible" or "too expensive" is puzzling (not really).
As long as they tell us why some affixes feel like they're doing 3-4 times more damage (Molten, Arcane, FireChains, Desecrator) than before the patch, and tell us resistances are actually going to feel like they work for those again, I'm fine with it.
Right now, it feels like the only thing that can save you from those affixes is an insanely high LoH (or perma-diamond skin/ss). My Wiz had (last time I played her) 1k res all (1.2-1.3k with a Barb) and still couldn't tank 3-4 seconds of firechains even in Act 2. It felt kinda broken.
As long as they tell us why some affixes feel like they're doing 3-4 times more damage (Molten, Arcane, FireChains, Desecrator) than before the patch, and tell us resistances are actually going to feel like they work for those again, I'm fine with it.
Right now, it feels like the only thing that can save you from those affixes is an insanely high LoH (or perma-diamond skin/ss). My Wiz had (last time I played her) 1k res all (1.2-1.3k with a Barb) and still couldn't tank 3-4 seconds of firechains even in Act 2. It felt kinda broken.
I think Arcane is supposed to be an OMFG thing, but I've definitely felt their damage drop to something managable as my gear improved. The other three, though, still cause way too many moments when I just melt from 100% to dead in 1.5 seconds. If I see any off the CC affixes combined with Molten/Desecrator/FireChains, I know I'm in for 5+ minutes of annoying kiting.
I think Arcane is supposed to be an OMFG thing, but I've definitely felt their damage drop to something managable as my gear improved. The other three, though, still cause way too many moments when I just melt from 100% to dead in 1.5 seconds. If I see any off the CC affixes combined with Molten/Desecrator/FireChains, I know I'm in for 5+ minutes of annoying kiting.
Yeah, I put arcane there wrongly.
Arcane is manageable, as long as you don't move in the same direction of the beam (and take 50 hits in a row), and if they add internal cooldowns it will become even more manageable (so that one is fine).
Plague and Electrified are also pretty manageable with resists and are only a real danger to some builds. I actually think those could use a buff (like Plague placing a Dot or reducing your damage, and Electrified having an "overload" ability that makes it shoot out 3 times as many bolts :P)
But those other 3 (Molten, Desecrator, Firechains) feel really weird right now.
Also arcane hurts less the further u are from the centre. Fire chains is F'd up damage-wise tho, and Molten is retarded on fast mobs that won't sit still infront of u like reavers.
Easiest counter for fire chains? Get your back to a corner, then they can't surround you.
As long as they tell us why some affixes feel like they're doing 3-4 times more damage (Molten, Arcane, FireChains, Desecrator) than before the patch, and tell us resistances are actually going to feel like they work for those again, I'm fine with it.
Right now, it feels like the only thing that can save you from those affixes is an insanely high LoH (or perma-diamond skin/ss). My Wiz had (last time I played her) 1k res all (1.2-1.3k with a Barb) and still couldn't tank 3-4 seconds of firechains even in Act 2. It felt kinda broken.
Some things just aren't meant to be tanked with good gear alone. Especially by ranged classes.
Also arcane hurts less the further u are from the centre. Fire chains is F'd up damage-wise tho, and Molten is retarded on fast mobs that won't sit still infront of u like reavers.
Believe it or not the major issue I have with Arcane is... being vortexed right on top of the center point of the sentry. Unless I'm stupidly fast on Spirit Walk that's usually time to run back and try again. It's one of the few things in the game that truly frustrates me to the point of saying rude things to my monitor!
Also arcane hurts less the further u are from the centre. Fire chains is F'd up damage-wise tho, and Molten is retarded on fast mobs that won't sit still infront of u like reavers.
Believe it or not the major issue I have with Arcane is... being vortexed right on top of the center point of the sentry. Unless I'm stupidly fast on Spirit Walk that's usually time to run back and try again. It's one of the few things in the game that truly frustrates me to the point of saying rude things to my monitor!
Vortexed, knocked back and feared on top of arcane beam. Those are annoying. Arcane beam itself is easy to avoid, so high damage is really nothing when it doesnt even hit you. But its kind of stupid when a champ pack of fallens hit you and your life regen is greater than their damage and you just chill out there, and suddenly one knocks you back and theres a bright arcane beam where you land and you think "hey, I just move 2 steps away from the center so I dont die", but then you realize that knockback have slowed you down and arcane burns your health away. Obviously this is a very rare case but still. That feels so wrong, and unbalanced.
Also ranged monsters that run away and have molten affix. I mean its not that hard, but it frustrates me when I have to find a non-molten path and when I finally reach monster and hit it few times, it flees again...
I'm going to be an elitist for a second and say that many of those deaths from being CC'd into effects are player problems, not poor design. In fact, quite the opposite: intelligent AI is great design.
I will concede that Molten and Fire Chains seem to do way too much damage - even at 1100 AR I get melted sometimes. Other skills though? It really is a "play better" situation in my opinion.
If you're being knocked back on top of an arcane beam, it's because you weren't being situationally aware enough to sidestep a yard or two to prevent that. Abilities like knockback are entirely predictable in their trajectory, and as such, it is a player's responsibility to account for that during an encounter.
Same with Vortex: while there are certainly times an annoying pull can get you killed, more often than not it's because players aren't using the environment to their advantage; walls, doorways, tables, barrels, corners, etc all can inhibit a vortex effect and increase your time to live.
Inferno is supposed to be hard. Perhaps it was tuned a little too hard with regards to total damage, but there still needs to be things that are a risk of dying to, or the content would be completely trivial. Learning how to control those mechanics to a reasonable degree is part of the game, and part of the feeling of success when you get it right.
I'm going to be an elitist for a second and say that many of those deaths from being CC'd into effects are player problems, not poor design. In fact, quite the opposite: intelligent AI is great design.
I will concede that Molten and Fire Chains seem to do way too much damage - even at 1100 AR I get melted sometimes. Other skills though? It really is a "play better" situation in my opinion.
If you're being knocked back on top of an arcane beam, it's because you weren't being situationally aware enough to sidestep a yard or two to prevent that. Abilities like knockback are entirely predictable in their trajectory, and as such, it is a player's responsibility to account for that during an encounter.
Same with Vortex: while there are certainly times an annoying pull can get you killed, more often than not it's because players aren't using the environment to their advantage; walls, doorways, tables, barrels, corners, etc all can inhibit a vortex effect and increase your time to live.
Inferno is supposed to be hard. Perhaps it was tuned a little too hard with regards to total damage, but there still needs to be things that are a risk of dying to, or the content would be completely trivial. Learning how to control those mechanics to a reasonable degree is part of the game, and part of the feeling of success when you get it right.
Not being an elitist, just stating an opinion. A opinion I happen to share. +1
I'm going to be an elitist for a second and say that many of those deaths from being CC'd into effects are player problems, not poor design. In fact, quite the opposite: intelligent AI is great design.
I will concede that Molten and Fire Chains seem to do way too much damage - even at 1100 AR I get melted sometimes. Other skills though? It really is a "play better" situation in my opinion.
If you're being knocked back on top of an arcane beam, it's because you weren't being situationally aware enough to sidestep a yard or two to prevent that. Abilities like knockback are entirely predictable in their trajectory, and as such, it is a player's responsibility to account for that during an encounter.
Same with Vortex: while there are certainly times an annoying pull can get you killed, more often than not it's because players aren't using the environment to their advantage; walls, doorways, tables, barrels, corners, etc all can inhibit a vortex effect and increase your time to live.
Inferno is supposed to be hard. Perhaps it was tuned a little too hard with regards to total damage, but there still needs to be things that are a risk of dying to, or the content would be completely trivial. Learning how to control those mechanics to a reasonable degree is part of the game, and part of the feeling of success when you get it right.
Not being an elitist, just stating an opinion. A opinion I happen to share. +1
As an aside I forgot to mention: the slow after knockback. That needs to go (they had to fix a similar issue in WoW concerning Warriors using charge with a snare/slow on them, and it taking 27 years to get to the end spot); it drives me mad to no end to not only lose my position after a KB, but to have to matrix my way back into another one without being killed in the 3 seconds it takes to recover.
I'm going to be an elitist for a second and say that many of those deaths from being CC'd into effects are player problems, not poor design. In fact, quite the opposite: intelligent AI is great design.
I will concede that Molten and Fire Chains seem to do way too much damage - even at 1100 AR I get melted sometimes. Other skills though? It really is a "play better" situation in my opinion.
If you're being knocked back on top of an arcane beam, it's because you weren't being situationally aware enough to sidestep a yard or two to prevent that. Abilities like knockback are entirely predictable in their trajectory, and as such, it is a player's responsibility to account for that during an encounter.
Same with Vortex: while there are certainly times an annoying pull can get you killed, more often than not it's because players aren't using the environment to their advantage; walls, doorways, tables, barrels, corners, etc all can inhibit a vortex effect and increase your time to live.
Inferno is supposed to be hard. Perhaps it was tuned a little too hard with regards to total damage, but there still needs to be things that are a risk of dying to, or the content would be completely trivial. Learning how to control those mechanics to a reasonable degree is part of the game, and part of the feeling of success when you get it right.
I totally agree in some parts. Many of the deaths happens because of lack of skill. I rarely die in act 3 and when I do it´s usually because I´m bored and play over-aggressively and ignoring signs of danger.
I do like that there is a challenge, but not way it is now. Right now, only thing that usually kills me is arcane or sometimes random combo of nighmarish, molten, illusionist. etc. But i´m going to focus on arcane. it´s just unbalanced right now. Arcane hits about 15 times as hard as elites themselves. After a while it is easy to predict when youre in danger. But I dont think it´s the intent of arcane beam that it kills almost instantly regardless of resists/armor. You can learn to avoid it but I would argue that game would be better if arcane beam would do half the damage, but they would spin slightly faster.
That's an interesting change to Arcane. I would tend to agree it does too much damage, but as you said, is much more predictable as far as avoidance is concerned, and as such, perhaps warrants higher damage than some other affixes. I believe this to be the case, but that idea isn't mutually exclusive from the idea that all of those damage affixes are perhaps too high.
I don't recall Arcane being specifically mentioned in the overview blog, but I don't doubt it's probably up for review along with Molten and Fire Chains; they've made it clear not everything is being detailed in the blogs, so my hope is this just didn't make the cut, but will appear in the patch notes.
As someone who is finally geared enough to farm Act 3 efficiently (working on getting MF soon, woohoo!), I definitely know the struggle to get there, and what it takes to overcome it (not just finding a few great items to sell for a nice wad of cash, but having that innate knowledge of markets and statistic valuation, to make selling those items for true value much easier). With that in mind, I'm all for some tuning to get more people into the end content of Inferno. I don't want to go back to mindless killing of D2 (even though I enjoyed the hell out of it then), but I also feel everyone should have a chance to see everything in a reasonable amount of time - even if it does take them longer than others.
There's something going on with fire damage and resist. Even with 1k resist on my monk I die in less than 1 second crossing those fire barriers in Act 3 depths. Silly since you can completely ignore them in early acts or difficulties depending on your armor and resist(and you can even stand in them while killing elites!!). Seems to be the same case with molten and fire chains.
I don't recall Arcane being specifically mentioned in the overview blog, but I don't doubt it's probably up for review along with Molten and Fire Chains; they've made it clear not everything is being detailed in the blogs, so my hope is this just didn't make the cut, but will appear in the patch notes.
My point with Arcane + Vortex was not that Arcane is too hard. Arcane generally is a laughable affix. The issue for me is that getting Jailed in the beam... ok who cares? Laugh at it. Getting Vortexed on the epicenter? No laughing, you're dead.
I don't think it's very valid to say that the only foolproof way around this is to use geography to hard counter Vortex. My problem is a very niche problem - it typically doesn't happen with melee mobs for example because as you move they move away from the Sentries too. It tends to happen mostly with ranged mobs who like to plop Sentries down right underneath themselves, then stand there.
Then again, you may be right in calling me out insofar that it may be more of an issue with the AI of ranged mobs in general - I find that even after the AI change ranged mobs are still a royal pain in the ass. So maybe that's more of the cause of my frustration with Arcane + Vortex because I know I certainly have not experienced it with any melee mob.
I don't recall Arcane being specifically mentioned in the overview blog, but I don't doubt it's probably up for review along with Molten and Fire Chains; they've made it clear not everything is being detailed in the blogs, so my hope is this just didn't make the cut, but will appear in the patch notes.
My point with Arcane + Vortex was not that Arcane is too hard. Arcane generally is a laughable affix. The issue for me is that getting Jailed in the beam... ok who cares? Laugh at it. Getting Vortexed on the epicenter? No laughing, you're dead.
I don't think it's very valid to say that the only foolproof way around this is to use geography to hard counter Vortex. My problem is a very niche problem - it typically doesn't happen with melee mobs for example because as you move they move away from the Sentries too. It tends to happen mostly with ranged mobs who like to plop Sentries down right underneath themselves, then stand there.
Then again, you may be right in calling me out insofar that it may be more of an issue with the AI of ranged mobs in general - I find that even after the AI change ranged mobs are still a royal pain in the ass. So maybe that's more of the cause of my frustration with Arcane + Vortex because I know I certainly have not experienced it with any melee mob.
Oh I know the issue - it happens to me periodically as well. Ranged mobs are a finnicky bunch, and some types (those fucking quill shooting bastards) are a much bigger pain in the ass than others with their flee and kite you to death AI.
I believe we're both agreeing on the same idea that Arcane needs to be tuned down slightly. However, I think it should still be a bit of an "oh shit!" moment if you get yanked on top of one, but there should definitely be a chance that you can get out and recover (say losing half your life rather than 75-100% in a single second).
All these issues could be fixed in the next patch if they implement something as simple as an internal cooldown on monster skills.
Then again, these "oh SHIT" moments are what makes fighting elites so random and fun for me, seeing a Vortex Arcane makes me think preemptively "crap, can't use Serenity/Gloom until I absolutely need to!", and that's really cool, specially when their other 2 affixes (Extra Health FireChains) might already make the fight pretty tough in the first place.
There's something going on with fire damage and resist. Even with 1k resist on my monk I die in less than 1 second crossing those fire barriers in Act 3 depths. Silly since you can completely ignore them in early acts or difficulties depending on your armor and resist(and you can even stand in them while killing elites!!). Seems to be the same case with molten and fire chains.
Pretty sure those fire grates are just intentional 1-2 shots, like the uber-attacks from some mobs.
I can kill everything in my MF gear in inferno, in act 2 I have to swap MF to DPS on some groups, I go in act full AR/DPS gear and I die on normal mobs, if there is an elite pack I just kiss my ass goodbye.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hmm I doubt there would be any revamping to this extent but the fact that damage output is increasing overall and elite monster health is decreasing makes for much easier times. You should be able to burn through things much easier.
Never is an impossibly strong word, and something that's beyond over-used. Given the current pricing trends for middle-of-the-pack gear (read: gear that will get you through most, if not all of Inferno playing intelligently), and the recent announcement that gear is going to get even easier to find than ever before, you can rest assured that there will be resist all and armor aplenty for those who would otherwise "never" get to see Inferno Diablo.
The lack of patience and gold management on the part of those who keep claiming things are "impossible" or "too expensive" is puzzling (not really).
Right now, it feels like the only thing that can save you from those affixes is an insanely high LoH (or perma-diamond skin/ss). My Wiz had (last time I played her) 1k res all (1.2-1.3k with a Barb) and still couldn't tank 3-4 seconds of firechains even in Act 2. It felt kinda broken.
I think Arcane is supposed to be an OMFG thing, but I've definitely felt their damage drop to something managable as my gear improved. The other three, though, still cause way too many moments when I just melt from 100% to dead in 1.5 seconds. If I see any off the CC affixes combined with Molten/Desecrator/FireChains, I know I'm in for 5+ minutes of annoying kiting.
Arcane is manageable, as long as you don't move in the same direction of the beam (and take 50 hits in a row), and if they add internal cooldowns it will become even more manageable (so that one is fine).
Plague and Electrified are also pretty manageable with resists and are only a real danger to some builds. I actually think those could use a buff (like Plague placing a Dot or reducing your damage, and Electrified having an "overload" ability that makes it shoot out 3 times as many bolts :P)
But those other 3 (Molten, Desecrator, Firechains) feel really weird right now.
Easiest counter for fire chains? Get your back to a corner, then they can't surround you.
Believe it or not the major issue I have with Arcane is... being vortexed right on top of the center point of the sentry. Unless I'm stupidly fast on Spirit Walk that's usually time to run back and try again. It's one of the few things in the game that truly frustrates me to the point of saying rude things to my monitor!
I'm going to be an elitist for a second and say that many of those deaths from being CC'd into effects are player problems, not poor design. In fact, quite the opposite: intelligent AI is great design.
I will concede that Molten and Fire Chains seem to do way too much damage - even at 1100 AR I get melted sometimes. Other skills though? It really is a "play better" situation in my opinion.
If you're being knocked back on top of an arcane beam, it's because you weren't being situationally aware enough to sidestep a yard or two to prevent that. Abilities like knockback are entirely predictable in their trajectory, and as such, it is a player's responsibility to account for that during an encounter.
Same with Vortex: while there are certainly times an annoying pull can get you killed, more often than not it's because players aren't using the environment to their advantage; walls, doorways, tables, barrels, corners, etc all can inhibit a vortex effect and increase your time to live.
Inferno is supposed to be hard. Perhaps it was tuned a little too hard with regards to total damage, but there still needs to be things that are a risk of dying to, or the content would be completely trivial. Learning how to control those mechanics to a reasonable degree is part of the game, and part of the feeling of success when you get it right.
As an aside I forgot to mention: the slow after knockback. That needs to go (they had to fix a similar issue in WoW concerning Warriors using charge with a snare/slow on them, and it taking 27 years to get to the end spot); it drives me mad to no end to not only lose my position after a KB, but to have to matrix my way back into another one without being killed in the 3 seconds it takes to recover.
That's an interesting change to Arcane. I would tend to agree it does too much damage, but as you said, is much more predictable as far as avoidance is concerned, and as such, perhaps warrants higher damage than some other affixes. I believe this to be the case, but that idea isn't mutually exclusive from the idea that all of those damage affixes are perhaps too high.
I don't recall Arcane being specifically mentioned in the overview blog, but I don't doubt it's probably up for review along with Molten and Fire Chains; they've made it clear not everything is being detailed in the blogs, so my hope is this just didn't make the cut, but will appear in the patch notes.
As someone who is finally geared enough to farm Act 3 efficiently (working on getting MF soon, woohoo!), I definitely know the struggle to get there, and what it takes to overcome it (not just finding a few great items to sell for a nice wad of cash, but having that innate knowledge of markets and statistic valuation, to make selling those items for true value much easier). With that in mind, I'm all for some tuning to get more people into the end content of Inferno. I don't want to go back to mindless killing of D2 (even though I enjoyed the hell out of it then), but I also feel everyone should have a chance to see everything in a reasonable amount of time - even if it does take them longer than others.
My point with Arcane + Vortex was not that Arcane is too hard. Arcane generally is a laughable affix. The issue for me is that getting Jailed in the beam... ok who cares? Laugh at it. Getting Vortexed on the epicenter? No laughing, you're dead.
I don't think it's very valid to say that the only foolproof way around this is to use geography to hard counter Vortex. My problem is a very niche problem - it typically doesn't happen with melee mobs for example because as you move they move away from the Sentries too. It tends to happen mostly with ranged mobs who like to plop Sentries down right underneath themselves, then stand there.
Then again, you may be right in calling me out insofar that it may be more of an issue with the AI of ranged mobs in general - I find that even after the AI change ranged mobs are still a royal pain in the ass. So maybe that's more of the cause of my frustration with Arcane + Vortex because I know I certainly have not experienced it with any melee mob.
Oh I know the issue - it happens to me periodically as well. Ranged mobs are a finnicky bunch, and some types (those fucking quill shooting bastards) are a much bigger pain in the ass than others with their flee and kite you to death AI.
I believe we're both agreeing on the same idea that Arcane needs to be tuned down slightly. However, I think it should still be a bit of an "oh shit!" moment if you get yanked on top of one, but there should definitely be a chance that you can get out and recover (say losing half your life rather than 75-100% in a single second).
Then again, these "oh SHIT" moments are what makes fighting elites so random and fun for me, seeing a Vortex Arcane makes me think preemptively "crap, can't use Serenity/Gloom until I absolutely need to!", and that's really cool, specially when their other 2 affixes (Extra Health FireChains) might already make the fight pretty tough in the first place.
Pretty sure those fire grates are just intentional 1-2 shots, like the uber-attacks from some mobs.