Sure that might be your opinion of diablo 2, i gave you mine and the reasons why diablo 2 lasted way longer then d3 did for me.
i'm done with d3, there is nothing left to do for me so, for this moment i quit the game. Diablo 2 however kept me going on playing for 6 years and for me those are the points that make the difference.
You can either agree or disagree with it. Just giving my statement and the fact i don't agree with the starter of this topic
So you gave D2 six years because of the "endgame?"
Sure that might be your opinion of diablo 2, i gave you mine and the reasons why diablo 2 lasted way longer then d3 did for me.
i'm done with d3, there is nothing left to do for me so, for this moment i quit the game. Diablo 2 however kept me going on playing for 6 years and for me those are the points that make the difference.
You can either agree or disagree with it. Just giving my statement and the fact i don't agree with the starter of this topic
So you gave D2 six years because of the "endgame?"
I have no words.
This is what I don't get from D3 apologists. Yes, what you call a pathetic or barely an endgame, Baal runs / leveling to 99 etc... was an endgame, that we and 90% of the people on this forum, enjoyed for years after release.
D3 has no endgame, confirmed by Blizz and ANYONE WHOS KILLED I.Diablo.
And thats why D3 sucks, no end game. There is only leveling, I reached Inferno on my 3rd toon at level 55, in a few days of non-hardcore play, around 3-4 hrs per session, then ground out Izrual to unlock Inferno, then killed I.Diablo in a couple of hours.
That's a pathetic level of difficulty when that is the entire game, infact I'd compare it to the various asian wow clones over the years.
Biggest thing for me is the uselessness of MF, in D2, you put in the work for a MF toon, and used it to kit your other toons, but the RNG is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RNG in D3 that even when you have MF cap ( im 2% off non-WD toon), there's no payoff, speaking from personal experience, probabilty says you will get luckier over time, but 0.1% of a decent item with a decent roll, without missing a stat or slot, to 0.11% is still shit.
This is what I don't get from D3 apologists. Yes, what you call a pathetic or barely an endgame, Baal runs / leveling to 99 etc... was an endgame, that we and 90% of the people on this forum, enjoyed for years after release.
And by that same token, so is farming inferno in any act. The practice was to accrue better gear over time and it has not fundamentally changed.
That's a pathetic level of difficulty when that is the entire game, infact I'd compare it to the various asian wow clones over the years.
Actually diablo 2 had a fairly pathetic difficulty level, by comparison to A3 right now, you were entirely safe in A4 hell except for iron maiden on melee classes.
Biggest thing for me is the uselessness of MF, in D2, you put in the work for a MF toon, and used it to kit your other toons, but the RNG is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RNG in D3 that even when you have MF cap ( im 2% off non-WD toon), there's no payoff, speaking from personal experience, probabilty says you will get luckier over time, but 0.1% of a decent item with a decent roll, without missing a stat or slot, to 0.11% is still shit.
Over-blown bed-wetting hyperbole doesn't help your argument. RNG was and is still RNG. The only difference is that unqiues and sets in D3 are -currently- lacking and thus the stats of rares are hyper-important. If you would like to know how the MF system really works, there's a great thread in the theory-craft forum.
i would bet my life, that if the game stays the same. It's dead within a year. Less then 100k players for sure
Diablo III has sold 10 million copies.
Keep dreaming.
Yeah and the people that bought a 12 months subscribtion to WoW will leave d3 and play WoW.
From the 10 million that bought a copy i guess their average players drops with atleast 30% since release. to bad i can't find any statistics released by blizzard them self. But it's just a fact a lot of people dropped the game waiting for a better end-game or pvp.
Oh my, oh gosh, oh dear!
You mean people will temporarily leave a non-subscription game and go back to the subscription game by the same company? Blizzard must be simply devastated. Certainly nobody comes back to any other game after major content patches either. I mean, population spikes in D2 were completely arbitrary, right?
Are you actually suggesting that the MF-system works the same in D3 as it did in D2? Did you ever play D2? I'm not saying that MF is badly designed in it's current state in D3, but it certainly worked differently in D2. In D2, uniques/set items dropped with a very high frequency compared to how often legendarys drop in D3.
The drop rates may not be the same, and you may have an argument about the drop rates on items, but that's a whole different topic and really not pertinent to someone throwing a shitfit based on made-up numbers about how MF works for him.
MF works exactly the same in D3 as it does in D2. This was confirmed by a blue weeks and weeks ago and really isn't up for debate.
lol if you keep playing diablo 3 for a year in the condition it is right now. You must be really bored out of your mind and i would suggest going outside for a change, meet some living creatures that are not sticking behind a computer.
Now that you've resorted to personal insults and assumptions about my life I'll just ignore you entirely.
But i bet it took you way way longer to "complete" d2 with a fully geared lvl 99 character ( best would be all classes lvl 99 geared by 1 MF character)
It took a lot more time to complete Diablo 2, that does not say much though, as I started playing Diablo 2 when I was ten years old. I still played Diablo 3 for 300 hours, so they did something right. But at some point I just did not have anything to do. Even the achievements are boring, and that's from a player with 9500+ achievement points on one character who stopped before 3.2.
Are you actually suggesting that the MF-system works the same in D3 as it did in D2? Did you ever play D2? I'm not saying that MF is badly designed in it's current state in D3, but it certainly worked differently in D2. In D2, uniques/set items dropped with a very high frequency compared to how often legendarys drop in D3.
I mentioned the thread where the current MF system is explained. Drop rate of uniques vs. effectiveness of legendaries and the status quo were mentioned too. Clearly I was not suggesting the two calculated mf in the same way.
And also, how is "farming any act" as an end-game in any way comparable to what D2 had? Leveling to 99 was not something you did in a short amount of time, and it had nothing to do with the item hunt. On top of that, hunting for item-upgrades in diablo 3 has been rendered completely redundant because of the AH. You're not farming items in diablo 3, you're farming gold. There's a huge difference. And with the ladder system, and pvp, I'm amazed at how you can centralize diablo 2 endgame to an item hunt that is comparable to what D3 endgame is. End game in D2 was huge compared to what it is in D3 right now. I mean, I played D2 for years. I quit diablo 3 after a couple of months.
And how was grinding the chaos sanctuary any different than farming act1-3 now? Did you literally just stick around for 99 and that was it? Clearly it didn't take 6 years for people to hit 99, but lots of players claim that this was a huge deal. The obvious and operative point was that item grind is an item grind. Pathetic attempts to re-characterize D2 as anything but an item grind are hopelessly rose-tinted nostalgia fits that will not allow for a shred of introspection.
The feeling of end times was so much great in LoD. The ending to D3 felt really flat to me. And the High Heavens could not have been more predictable looking. And you see tons of these angels and there's really nothing special about them. Like we get only the slightest glimpses of angels throughout the Diablo games and now we find out they're like a dime a dozen and they all apparently look identical to one another.
it's not that diablo 3 is a bad game, it's that it's not amazing, it's above average sure but not amazing and for a blizzard product above average just doesn't cut it. Blizzard was promising years of enjoyment to the same level that Diablo 2 gave us (10 years later and I still play that) but a month after release I can't seem to find a reason to play it, theres nothing to aim for everything is done. Gaining more gear doesn't mean becoming a giant glowing god with poison and fire flying everywhere it means 10 more dex which is lets face it very boring.
Was the game fun, and did I spend more hours on it than I would on average game? You bet ya, I put like 200 hrs into that while most games i've cleared within 10hrs never to be picked up a gain.
Is it the game Blizzard promised us with never-lasting content, an inferno thatd take months to clear, loads of customization, lots of great unique gear, a mad rush of fighting armies of demons with fun abilities, engaging and difficult events etc. ? Not even close, yes the game was good but it isn't what we had been promised and that leaves me very disapointed.
The feeling of end times was so much great in LoD. The ending to D3 felt really flat to me. And the High Heavens could not have been more predictable looking. And you see tons of these angels and there's really nothing special about them. Like we get only the slightest glimpses of angels throughout the Diablo games and now we find out they're like a dime a dozen and they all apparently look identical to one another.
Is it the game Blizzard promised us with never-lasting content, an inferno thatd take months to clear, loads of customization, lots of great unique gear, a mad rush of fighting armies of demons with fun abilities, engaging and difficult events etc. ? Not even close, yes the game was good but it isn't what we had been promised and that leaves me very disapointed.
Well spoken. It really isn't D3 Blizzard was a bad game. It's that it could've or should've easily been a much better game. I remember statements from Jay Wilson before the game's release, retracting from a previous statement on how people had unrealistic expectations of the game. He'd later go on to reaffirm people that hey, we're Blizzard and of course you should have great expectations from this game.
I do think they had good intentions though. I think even that in their quest for perfection they got really bogged down in the details and then had to make up for lost time by making compromises and blanket solutions to what some would consider rather glaring problems.
What stands out for me particularly, has often been the lack of weapons animations for skills. Especially for the Monk. And whenever I'd complain about it people would say, "But you have no idea how hard it is to create 3D animations for all those weapons." And then I thought....well, the animations for basic attack are all already in place. Couldn't they just stack the skill's visual effect on top of the already animated effect of swinging the weapon? I'll take even that compared to me sheathing my weapon very quickly just to do a skill when I'm running around otherwise holding these weapons in my hand. And even if not all that, then can't I at least say, "But this is Blizzard. They wanted us to believe in these things they could do." And they did plenty to pump life in their hype machine ever since the announcement from legitimate updates to arbitrary tidbits of information and constant messages regarding revisions to the game. All just to keep the updates coming and keeping people excited about the game.
Diablo went from, play as long as want, whenever you want, to WoW style 1-3hr runs or choose to be an average geared player.
That sucks. You could pindle or meph while you waited to leave for the bus, but now, you either put in WoW-raid like time, or you won't get drops.
Then what did you suggest? You clearly stated that the _ONLY_ difference is that sets/legendaries in D3 is lacking in terms of usefulness, as a response to an argument that was made concerning the actual drop rates for sets/legendaries compared to D2. Are you confused?
The only impactful difference between D3 and D2 is the quality of uniques and sets, yes. I do not think the lower drop rate is nearly as harmful to the game as the fact a grandfather sword can't compete with a blue and could possibly roll int or no stats at all. These are issues, issues that blizzard has said they are addressing.
The grind is the same, I never stated anything else. What seems REALLY hard for you to comprehend though, is that the item hunt in itself does NOT represent the end game of D2. End game in D2 comprise actual goals to the item hunt(ladder, PVP, etc which you're still disregarding), combined with leveling characters(which was interesting in D2, because of the inability to respec).
PvP is on the way and they told us it would not be out with release. Ladder obviously wouldn't have a shred of impact on the game since level 60 is easily attainable, perhaps in hardcore mode. I'm glad you liked leveling up dozens of characters instead of having the option to swap skills at will, but I think that's really sad self-deception and nostalgia out of control. The models of each game are the same, you kill monsters, you search for nice items, and you keep doing so even after you've defeated every boss in every difficulty. If you can't come up with anything but "oh the drop rates suck this time around," to argue that point, you've got a pretty flimsy argument.
D3 end game is mindlessly farming items with no goal while having every single item you could ever want easily accessible via the AH. How can you possibly fail to see the difference here?
Assuming you had an endless supply of gold or the willingness to spend cash in the RMAH, you're right, but for most of us neither of those is the case. You must earn that gold by being an intelligent salesman or you can find the items yourself. It is the same process we all used in D2 except the third party sites are replaced by the RMAH and the hideously time-consuming process of using trade chat and trade games were replaced by the GAH.
If you think the AH functionally detracted from the game, you're obviously just too biased on principal to make a rational argument. Neither you, nor anyone else, need use the RMAH, but yes you are expected to trade via the GAH if you want to gear up one character at an appreciable pace. If that ruins the game for you, feel free to boot up D2 and see how many various boss runs it takes you to find a full set of gear for any class.
Diablo went from, play as long as want, whenever you want, to WoW style 1-3hr runs or choose to be an average geared player.
That sucks. You could pindle or meph while you waited to leave for the bus, but now, you either put in WoW-raid like time, or you won't get drops.
Yeah, how dare blizzard encourage you to farm things other than bosses? I hate garunteed rare drops without having MF gear too. It makes the act of defeating elite packs feel rewarding when all I really want is to make games over and over with the sight of nothing but a single waypoint and the ensuing boss.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go finish my paint-chip dinner.
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So you gave D2 six years because of the "endgame?"
I have no words.
This is what I don't get from D3 apologists. Yes, what you call a pathetic or barely an endgame, Baal runs / leveling to 99 etc... was an endgame, that we and 90% of the people on this forum, enjoyed for years after release.
D3 has no endgame, confirmed by Blizz and ANYONE WHOS KILLED I.Diablo.
And thats why D3 sucks, no end game. There is only leveling, I reached Inferno on my 3rd toon at level 55, in a few days of non-hardcore play, around 3-4 hrs per session, then ground out Izrual to unlock Inferno, then killed I.Diablo in a couple of hours.
That's a pathetic level of difficulty when that is the entire game, infact I'd compare it to the various asian wow clones over the years.
Biggest thing for me is the uselessness of MF, in D2, you put in the work for a MF toon, and used it to kit your other toons, but the RNG is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RNG in D3 that even when you have MF cap ( im 2% off non-WD toon), there's no payoff, speaking from personal experience, probabilty says you will get luckier over time, but 0.1% of a decent item with a decent roll, without missing a stat or slot, to 0.11% is still shit.
Diablo III has sold 10 million copies.
Keep dreaming.
And by that same token, so is farming inferno in any act. The practice was to accrue better gear over time and it has not fundamentally changed.
Completely arbitrary to assign final boss runs as an optimal endgame and a sure sign you didn't play Diablo 2 very long.
Actually diablo 2 had a fairly pathetic difficulty level, by comparison to A3 right now, you were entirely safe in A4 hell except for iron maiden on melee classes.
Over-blown bed-wetting hyperbole doesn't help your argument. RNG was and is still RNG. The only difference is that unqiues and sets in D3 are -currently- lacking and thus the stats of rares are hyper-important. If you would like to know how the MF system really works, there's a great thread in the theory-craft forum.
Oh my, oh gosh, oh dear!
You mean people will temporarily leave a non-subscription game and go back to the subscription game by the same company? Blizzard must be simply devastated. Certainly nobody comes back to any other game after major content patches either. I mean, population spikes in D2 were completely arbitrary, right?
The drop rates may not be the same, and you may have an argument about the drop rates on items, but that's a whole different topic and really not pertinent to someone throwing a shitfit based on made-up numbers about how MF works for him.
MF works exactly the same in D3 as it does in D2. This was confirmed by a blue weeks and weeks ago and really isn't up for debate.
Now that you've resorted to personal insults and assumptions about my life I'll just ignore you entirely.
It took a lot more time to complete Diablo 2, that does not say much though, as I started playing Diablo 2 when I was ten years old. I still played Diablo 3 for 300 hours, so they did something right. But at some point I just did not have anything to do. Even the achievements are boring, and that's from a player with 9500+ achievement points on one character who stopped before 3.2.
If you really think Diablo3 in its current state is a good game...
Then you haven't played a "Good Game" yet.... sorry Bro!
I mentioned the thread where the current MF system is explained. Drop rate of uniques vs. effectiveness of legendaries and the status quo were mentioned too. Clearly I was not suggesting the two calculated mf in the same way.
And how was grinding the chaos sanctuary any different than farming act1-3 now? Did you literally just stick around for 99 and that was it? Clearly it didn't take 6 years for people to hit 99, but lots of players claim that this was a huge deal. The obvious and operative point was that item grind is an item grind. Pathetic attempts to re-characterize D2 as anything but an item grind are hopelessly rose-tinted nostalgia fits that will not allow for a shred of introspection.
D2's story had a lot more intrigue.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Was the game fun, and did I spend more hours on it than I would on average game? You bet ya, I put like 200 hrs into that while most games i've cleared within 10hrs never to be picked up a gain.
Is it the game Blizzard promised us with never-lasting content, an inferno thatd take months to clear, loads of customization, lots of great unique gear, a mad rush of fighting armies of demons with fun abilities, engaging and difficult events etc. ? Not even close, yes the game was good but it isn't what we had been promised and that leaves me very disapointed.
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Wise ElderI really like the feel of the first 3 acts, act 1 in particular. But Act 4....no. I hate it. It looks like shit. It feels like shit. It plays like shit. No dungeons.....it's really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really bad.
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I do think they had good intentions though. I think even that in their quest for perfection they got really bogged down in the details and then had to make up for lost time by making compromises and blanket solutions to what some would consider rather glaring problems.
What stands out for me particularly, has often been the lack of weapons animations for skills. Especially for the Monk. And whenever I'd complain about it people would say, "But you have no idea how hard it is to create 3D animations for all those weapons." And then I thought....well, the animations for basic attack are all already in place. Couldn't they just stack the skill's visual effect on top of the already animated effect of swinging the weapon? I'll take even that compared to me sheathing my weapon very quickly just to do a skill when I'm running around otherwise holding these weapons in my hand. And even if not all that, then can't I at least say, "But this is Blizzard. They wanted us to believe in these things they could do." And they did plenty to pump life in their hype machine ever since the announcement from legitimate updates to arbitrary tidbits of information and constant messages regarding revisions to the game. All just to keep the updates coming and keeping people excited about the game.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Diablo went from, play as long as want, whenever you want, to WoW style 1-3hr runs or choose to be an average geared player.
That sucks. You could pindle or meph while you waited to leave for the bus, but now, you either put in WoW-raid like time, or you won't get drops.
The only impactful difference between D3 and D2 is the quality of uniques and sets, yes. I do not think the lower drop rate is nearly as harmful to the game as the fact a grandfather sword can't compete with a blue and could possibly roll int or no stats at all. These are issues, issues that blizzard has said they are addressing.
PvP is on the way and they told us it would not be out with release. Ladder obviously wouldn't have a shred of impact on the game since level 60 is easily attainable, perhaps in hardcore mode. I'm glad you liked leveling up dozens of characters instead of having the option to swap skills at will, but I think that's really sad self-deception and nostalgia out of control. The models of each game are the same, you kill monsters, you search for nice items, and you keep doing so even after you've defeated every boss in every difficulty. If you can't come up with anything but "oh the drop rates suck this time around," to argue that point, you've got a pretty flimsy argument.
Assuming you had an endless supply of gold or the willingness to spend cash in the RMAH, you're right, but for most of us neither of those is the case. You must earn that gold by being an intelligent salesman or you can find the items yourself. It is the same process we all used in D2 except the third party sites are replaced by the RMAH and the hideously time-consuming process of using trade chat and trade games were replaced by the GAH.
If you think the AH functionally detracted from the game, you're obviously just too biased on principal to make a rational argument. Neither you, nor anyone else, need use the RMAH, but yes you are expected to trade via the GAH if you want to gear up one character at an appreciable pace. If that ruins the game for you, feel free to boot up D2 and see how many various boss runs it takes you to find a full set of gear for any class.
Yeah, how dare blizzard encourage you to farm things other than bosses? I hate garunteed rare drops without having MF gear too. It makes the act of defeating elite packs feel rewarding when all I really want is to make games over and over with the sight of nothing but a single waypoint and the ensuing boss.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go finish my paint-chip dinner.