Are you seriously telling me you would have collected every rune of every level for every skill and class? Thats bullshit. You'd play around with them at the start and then quickly settle into your desired build and focus on those. Yeah, there might be a few anal retentive players having to collect them all, but thats not the majority of players.
WoW statistics disagree with you. Entirely. You may not do it. I may not do it. But a surprisingly large amount of people would, and it was definitely a legitimate concern for Blizzard. Trying to handwave it away simply because you don't like something is not an argument.
Yep they do, but.... there's 4 types of gems, 14 levels requiring 3 of each level to combine up to the next. Do the math, Gems are a bigger issue then the proposed rune system listed above.
You do the math. Because evidently you don't understand the basics of it. You put 3 in, you get 1 out. That is a reducing system. Do you still honestly need help with this?
It is. The game is balanced for people with "an attention span of normal" to play till normal. The higher difficulties are for hardcore players. Also, what you aren't comprehending is with the old system, you could have your build and runes you wanted by level 30 (your "normal attention span") Now however, you CAN'T have your build till you reach 60 (well beyond your limited attention span)
No. It isn't. The game is not being balanced for people with a short attention span. It's being balanced to accommodate everyone. You falsely try to correlate consideration for other players/playstyles as resulting in a game which is being made easier for you - how? You don't know that. You don't have any proof that inferno will be anything short of as balls-difficult as all the developers and the panel at blizzcon said it would be. You don't have any proof that normal through hell won't be exactly as challenging as Blizzard wants it to be. You also don't have ANY proof that these changes result in an easier game. If you actually HAVE some evidence to the contrary, present it then. I'll wait.
Yes, with the old system you could have your entire build laid out by 30. You could also have huge itemization issues, balancing issues, and the pain in the ass that would be managing this entire inventory of runes. That's why they're gone, and they're not coming back, no matter how much you would like to refer to the 1 good aspect the old system brought.
You also like to pretend that this system is catering towards the ADD'ers who will never make it to 60; how? When this system actively encourages you to get to 60 to finalize your build? And why are you upset then? You plan on playing to 60, don't you?
But i cant give my full comments based on what i read as i dont have access to the game right now.
As what i read and interpret, having the runestones at different levels is good for me. At least now i dont need to hurt for the runestones.
And if i didnt interpret blizzard intention of diablo 3 gameplay experience, they want the player to keep going for boss or dungeons raids and collect the equipments instead of trying to level different characters builds for different boss or dungeons.
I can spend more time in playing boss/dungeons raids instead of trying to farm the various levels and types of runestones.
Also if i never remembered wrongly, i read in a post in the blizzard forum that leveling in diablo 3 is fast. So why worry about leveling? Focus more on what skill sets, armour sets you will like to use and be familar with . That's why i think blizzard change the runestones system so we can have more fun in fighting boss and exploring dungeons, instead of building up various character builds for different instances.
Thus i feel it's a good change from what i read, until i have a chance to try it out in game myself.
I honestly think its a good change, gives them more time to focus on gear and gives players back the option to make their character however they want, once they hit 60 and not farming to customize your character. All the people crying about the game isn't fully experience til 60.... WTF did you expect? I never seen people bitch about "not being able to experience the full game pre max lv" that is new to me. Those people will cry about anything and everything.
My only issue now, is if they plain to make money off of the RMAH their better be a ton of different armor sets and weapons.
I think a lot of the real crying comes from people that planned on doing nightmare to get rank 6 and bragging about it. Seems like blizzard is getting rid of all the brag items and just wants people to have fun. No competition just enjoy the game for once, let finishing the hard difficult on hardcore mode achievement be your bragging thing. Other than that fuck you and enjoy the game. And honestly I like this approach
But i cant give my full comments based on what i read as i dont have access to the game right now.
As what i read and interpret, having the runestones at different levels is good for me. At least now i dont need to hurt for the runestones.
And if i didnt interpret blizzard intention of diablo 3 gameplay experience, they want the player to keep going for boss or dungeons raids and collect the equipments instead of trying to level different characters builds for different boss or dungeons.
I can spend more time in playing boss/dungeons raids instead of trying to farm the various levels and types of runestones.
Also if i never remembered wrongly, i read in a post in the blizzard forum that leveling in diablo 3 is fast. So why worry about leveling? Focus more on what skill sets, armour sets you will like to use and be familar with . That's why i think blizzard change the runestones system so we can have more fun in fighting boss and exploring dungeons, instead of building up various character builds for different instances.
Thus i feel it's a good change from what i read, until i have a chance to try it out in game myself.
Umm, the entire game post 60 is farming and hunting for items. How is having to find OPTIONAL level 6 or 7 ranked runes ANY different then any other piece of gear?
Should blizzard unlock armor and weapons for you as you level to 60 so you don't have to hunt for them too so you can play your build?? Should they automatically unlock level 14 gems when you ding 60 so you don't have to farm the ridiculous amount of gems you will need to combine up to level 14 (with a majority of people never seeing a level 14)?? What are you going to do at end game then?
I have to say i do like the new rune system, because the gap between 30-60 would be rediculously boring to level up. The rune system in its current form fixes this issue as well as the inventory management issue. But i have to agree that it was a "easy way out" of the problems, but i think it was actually a nice way out despite being as simple as it is.
You do the math. Because evidently you don't understand the basics of it. You put 3 in, you get 1 out. That is a reducing system. Do you still honestly need help with this?
It takes: --> 1,594,323 lvl 1 Chipped gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _.177,147 lvl 3 Regular gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _._59,049 lvl 4 Flawless gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _._19,683 lvl 5 Perfect gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
Currently only a max of level 5 drop. Thats a lot of gems and inventory space....
I am not in beta but reading about the two systems I think this new one sounds better. Now those complaining that now you have to hit 60 to get all your abilities and such will be gimp while leveling. How do you know that there was not any runes in hell or inferno only levels. If there was then you would not have all ruins until you farmed those at level 60 anyways. Also maybe they will add a patch 2 months after release doing something new with the runes item they had to give us some more loot to find.
You do the math. Because evidently you don't understand the basics of it. You put 3 in, you get 1 out. That is a reducing system. Do you still honestly need help with this?
It takes: --> 1,594,323 lvl 1 Chipped gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _.177,147 lvl 3 Regular gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _._59,049 lvl 4 Flawless gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star --> _._19,683 lvl 5 Perfect gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
Currently only a max of level 5 drop. Thats a lot of gems and inventory space....
Simple fix, Rune Pouch... just another hotkey that opens up a separate inventory.
But I told you so... I told you exactly why the runestone system would not work, and I was called a noob and flamed to no end.
Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
I've had no chance to try the beta live, since I (among many others) haven't had any luck with bnet opt-in or in any of the many competitions.. But what I've followed (closely) the beta development and gameplay videos up to the latest 'Patch 13' ones, this runesystem definately "feels" immediately right. My guess is that there will still be some tuning into it, but not any major changes anymore. And I personally don't see this as 'a quick fix', I see it as a great improvement.
#4- "Im really happy about the changes, and this way, it will give the people with a gaming attention span of a normal play through, more of a reason to play the higher difficulties." - and now we get to the heart of the matter.
You say that like its a bad thing.
It is. The game is balanced for people with "an attention span of normal" to play till normal. The higher difficulties are for hardcore players. Also, what you aren't comprehending is with the old system, you could have your build and runes you wanted by level 30 (your "normal attention span") Now however, you CAN'T have your build till you reach 60 (well beyond your limited attention span)
Follow?
I think you missed the point. The game now has a reason for Everyone to reach max level. You have a sustainable advancement. One of the issues with Diablo 2 for me was that after I beat it on Normal, why play harder levels? Sure the gear got better but what would I see that is so different?
Now I have a reason to level up, I get to see new alterations of my different abilities. My range of how I construct my characters becomes greater. The game becomes more dynamic as I level now. Before after level 30 it was not about growth as a character just as a gear number.
This sort of brings back the Stat points but in a different and much more potent fashion. You pick something and it has a visual effect with some satisfying powerful tweaks to your play style. To me it is more of a Stat point, but one you can move around and is far more fun to experiment with.
EngageQuadLaser, you're clearly a troll, so I'm not going to reply to your posts, even though I had some things I wanted to say.
Another thing people are forgetting is the impact this will have on replayability. Every single time you level a Barb, the same skills will unlock at the same levels, and the same runes will unlock at the same levels. Yeah....real fun and replayable.
Maka, seriously, I must have some respect since you never factored me as a troll... sigh.
Ok he has a point, and I personally agree with him, I also find it very logical. As for your feelings to re-playability, I call that hardcore more. I mean I'm going to level one of everything and then try and level on of everything in hardcore mode. Really it is not a game which just has one way to play.
Now if you want to level 10 barbs then more power to you, and yes I'm making an extreme of your argument, but the point is that you are looking at it narrowly. In games with simply play styles, like brawlers, you can play and choose the different ways to level up. I can level up multiple barbs with multiple specs, and see how it plays out. This is a very different way of playing then just switching it up at the end.
To you it may be all the same, all options are gone since you can explore them at the end. I will make a WoW analogy here, I know slight but still I think it is apt. I love paladins, to death and back been playing them since launch. I've leveled a new one at least every xpac, because of how different they are. I've leveled them, Ret, Prot, and Holy. Always enjoying the nuances of the class specs every time. I think that is fun, so for me, this could work still.
But I told you so... I told you exactly why the runestone system would not work, and I was called a noob and flamed to no end.
Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
The new rune system works great in the beta, and it will work even better when the game launches, some will always hate a system, peole are acting like they have tried the old rune system and are raging cause it was replaced sometime into the life of a game, truth of the matter is, no here tried the old system, if the testers and Dev's came to a conclusion that it didn't work, well.... then it didn't work.
But I told you so... I told you exactly why the runestone system would not work, and I was called a noob and flamed to no end.
Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
This system is not a fix. It's a quick band aid solution. It's lazy and poorly implemented.
There basically ISN"T a rune system anymore. You simply have 25 major skills and you unlock variants as you level. End of story. No runes.
Their solution to the "runestone problem" was to remove runes period.
The heart of the system is still there, though. What made it good in the first place and had everyone excited when it was debuted. Every skill has multiple iterations! That's the cool, exciting part.
Secondly, this is the first time I've become attached to a change, I love the changes they've made and really hope they don't make another one. So I guess I'm in the boat you were previously, and hoping mine doesn't get shipwrecked. I do think this system is the best yet though, although it is in need of some polish but it's blown out of proportion how much work it needs.
classes having basically 100 sepparate skills to use 6 at any time and 3 out of 18 passives sounds like more then enough variables to me to keep the fun alive for years. i just wish we could choose which rune we unlocked per level. then the system would be perfect.
with all this QQing on the main forum i for see another big change to the system within 3 weeks
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I was skeptic at first when I read the change, but after some thought I didn't think it too bad not getting all varieties right away.
Is it really so bad to keep unlocking new ways of fighting, in my experience thats half the fun.
But that's all it should be. Half the fun, not all of it. So what if we just have all the runes unlocked by the time you reach a lvl somewhere between halfway and the end of nightmare. That way, nobody has a fuss about not having their entire build for hell and we all get to go through those evolution stages where you discover(or rediscover after a year of D3) slightly longer then the original way.
I also support all suggestions that opt for choice. Where we chose the runes we get(the game still tells us for what skill I presume).
This is also great for hardcore players, when we find a favorite build and die we wont have to spend countless hours getting our build back, its enough hard work getting items, but having to rely on luck to get whats needed for a build is a bit silly to be honest
This is also great for hardcore players, when we find a favorite build and die we wont have to spend countless hours getting our build back, its enough hard work getting items, but having to rely on luck to get whats needed for a build is a bit silly to be honest
I think your logic is flawed. In the old system you could get your build no problem.
I was just hard to get it to max power. Which is the same as finding your equipment.
But no matter what your luck was, you were sure to have all the runes you needed.(to get the desired effect, not damage :P)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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WoW statistics disagree with you. Entirely. You may not do it. I may not do it. But a surprisingly large amount of people would, and it was definitely a legitimate concern for Blizzard. Trying to handwave it away simply because you don't like something is not an argument.
When balancing inferno, what rank of rune do you balance it around?
You do the math. Because evidently you don't understand the basics of it. You put 3 in, you get 1 out. That is a reducing system. Do you still honestly need help with this?
No. It isn't. The game is not being balanced for people with a short attention span. It's being balanced to accommodate everyone. You falsely try to correlate consideration for other players/playstyles as resulting in a game which is being made easier for you - how? You don't know that. You don't have any proof that inferno will be anything short of as balls-difficult as all the developers and the panel at blizzcon said it would be. You don't have any proof that normal through hell won't be exactly as challenging as Blizzard wants it to be. You also don't have ANY proof that these changes result in an easier game. If you actually HAVE some evidence to the contrary, present it then. I'll wait.
Yes, with the old system you could have your entire build laid out by 30. You could also have huge itemization issues, balancing issues, and the pain in the ass that would be managing this entire inventory of runes. That's why they're gone, and they're not coming back, no matter how much you would like to refer to the 1 good aspect the old system brought.
You also like to pretend that this system is catering towards the ADD'ers who will never make it to 60; how? When this system actively encourages you to get to 60 to finalize your build? And why are you upset then? You plan on playing to 60, don't you?
Do you have any actual arguments to present?
But i cant give my full comments based on what i read as i dont have access to the game right now.
As what i read and interpret, having the runestones at different levels is good for me. At least now i dont need to hurt for the runestones.
And if i didnt interpret blizzard intention of diablo 3 gameplay experience, they want the player to keep going for boss or dungeons raids and collect the equipments instead of trying to level different characters builds for different boss or dungeons.
I can spend more time in playing boss/dungeons raids instead of trying to farm the various levels and types of runestones.
Also if i never remembered wrongly, i read in a post in the blizzard forum that leveling in diablo 3 is fast. So why worry about leveling? Focus more on what skill sets, armour sets you will like to use and be familar with . That's why i think blizzard change the runestones system so we can have more fun in fighting boss and exploring dungeons, instead of building up various character builds for different instances.
Thus i feel it's a good change from what i read, until i have a chance to try it out in game myself.
My only issue now, is if they plain to make money off of the RMAH their better be a ton of different armor sets and weapons.
I think a lot of the real crying comes from people that planned on doing nightmare to get rank 6 and bragging about it. Seems like blizzard is getting rid of all the brag items and just wants people to have fun. No competition just enjoy the game for once, let finishing the hard difficult on hardcore mode achievement be your bragging thing. Other than that fuck you and enjoy the game. And honestly I like this approach
Umm, the entire game post 60 is farming and hunting for items. How is having to find OPTIONAL level 6 or 7 ranked runes ANY different then any other piece of gear?
Should blizzard unlock armor and weapons for you as you level to 60 so you don't have to hunt for them too so you can play your build?? Should they automatically unlock level 14 gems when you ding 60 so you don't have to farm the ridiculous amount of gems you will need to combine up to level 14 (with a majority of people never seeing a level 14)?? What are you going to do at end game then?
See where I'm going with this?
It takes:
--> 1,594,323 lvl 1 Chipped gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
--> _.177,147 lvl 3 Regular gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
--> _._59,049 lvl 4 Flawless gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
--> _._19,683 lvl 5 Perfect gems to make one lvl 14 Radiant Star
Currently only a max of level 5 drop. Thats a lot of gems and inventory space....
Simple fix, Rune Pouch... just another hotkey that opens up a separate inventory.
Improvement over what?
I think you missed the point. The game now has a reason for Everyone to reach max level. You have a sustainable advancement. One of the issues with Diablo 2 for me was that after I beat it on Normal, why play harder levels? Sure the gear got better but what would I see that is so different?
Now I have a reason to level up, I get to see new alterations of my different abilities. My range of how I construct my characters becomes greater. The game becomes more dynamic as I level now. Before after level 30 it was not about growth as a character just as a gear number.
This sort of brings back the Stat points but in a different and much more potent fashion. You pick something and it has a visual effect with some satisfying powerful tweaks to your play style. To me it is more of a Stat point, but one you can move around and is far more fun to experiment with.
Maka, seriously, I must have some respect since you never factored me as a troll... sigh.
Ok he has a point, and I personally agree with him, I also find it very logical. As for your feelings to re-playability, I call that hardcore more. I mean I'm going to level one of everything and then try and level on of everything in hardcore mode. Really it is not a game which just has one way to play.
Now if you want to level 10 barbs then more power to you, and yes I'm making an extreme of your argument, but the point is that you are looking at it narrowly. In games with simply play styles, like brawlers, you can play and choose the different ways to level up. I can level up multiple barbs with multiple specs, and see how it plays out. This is a very different way of playing then just switching it up at the end.
To you it may be all the same, all options are gone since you can explore them at the end. I will make a WoW analogy here, I know slight but still I think it is apt. I love paladins, to death and back been playing them since launch. I've leveled a new one at least every xpac, because of how different they are. I've leveled them, Ret, Prot, and Holy. Always enjoying the nuances of the class specs every time. I think that is fun, so for me, this could work still.
The heart of the system is still there, though. What made it good in the first place and had everyone excited when it was debuted. Every skill has multiple iterations! That's the cool, exciting part.
Secondly, this is the first time I've become attached to a change, I love the changes they've made and really hope they don't make another one. So I guess I'm in the boat you were previously, and hoping mine doesn't get shipwrecked. I do think this system is the best yet though, although it is in need of some polish but it's blown out of proportion how much work it needs.
with all this QQing on the main forum i for see another big change to the system within 3 weeks
Is it really so bad to keep unlocking new ways of fighting, in my experience thats half the fun.
But that's all it should be. Half the fun, not all of it. So what if we just have all the runes unlocked by the time you reach a lvl somewhere between halfway and the end of nightmare. That way, nobody has a fuss about not having their entire build for hell and we all get to go through those evolution stages where you discover(or rediscover after a year of D3) slightly longer then the original way.
I also support all suggestions that opt for choice. Where we chose the runes we get(the game still tells us for what skill I presume).
I think your logic is flawed. In the old system you could get your build no problem.
I was just hard to get it to max power. Which is the same as finding your equipment.
But no matter what your luck was, you were sure to have all the runes you needed.(to get the desired effect, not damage :P)