Blizzard has no fucking idea what to do with the game anymore, they worked their ass out on the thousands animation for nothing if they cant implement them in a logical way.
Now we really know they didnt have a plan at all, they just worked hundreds of different skills in vain if you cant implement them in the game right, i don`t give a shit over quantity they can make millions of different skills, quality is over quantity.
Do you ever think before you post? Those "thousands of animations" - you realize that the rune skills will do the same thing as before as if the system never changed? All that is different is that the runes are no longer drops and are unlocked at different levels in the game. They also reduced storage because of it.
They had a grand vision of how the rune system would be, and then they found out it was not realistic. They made a firm decision, and now we have a working system. If people didn't follow this game every second, you'd never notice the difference.
Look, I know Blizzard isn't perfect and some of the game systems aren't perfect in beta 13, but you kids spew absolute garbage that makes no sense. They had a plan, it didn't work, so they changed it to make it work. That's what iterations of development is about, in any industry.
Blizzard has no fucking idea what to do with the game anymore, they worked their ass out on the thousands animation for nothing if they cant implement them in a logical way.
Now we really know they didnt have a plan at all, they just worked hundreds of different skills in vain if you cant implement them in the game right, i don`t give a shit over quantity they can make millions of different skills, quality is over quantity.
Do you ever think before you post? Those "thousands of animations" - you realize that the rune skills will do the same thing as before as if the system never changed? All that is different is that the runes are no longer drops and are unlocked at different levels in the game. They also reduced storage because of it.
They had a grand vision of how the rune system would be, and then they found out it was not realistic. They made a firm decision, and now we have a working system. If people didn't follow this game every second, you'd never notice the difference.
Look, I know Blizzard isn't perfect and some of the game systems aren't perfect in beta 13, but you kids spew absolute garbage that makes no sense. They had a plan, it didn't work, so they changed it to make it work. That's what iterations of development is about, in any industry.
Don't bother trying to reason with Crysto37 - this dude does nothing but bash Blizzard and complain about the game. First it was stat allocation, then it was the skill tree, now it's the changes to the rune system. This kid does nothing but bitch and can't be reasoned with.
The system is solid and it's logical. It's just a matter of whether or not you can accept it for the way it is now. The game is not perfect, but I accept it. Yes it's disappointing that we don't get every skill and every rune at lvl 30 so that we can use different runes to experiment with the high difficulties, but they made a decision on how to structure our gameplay.
The whole point is that they had a plan, knew it wasn't going to work, and worked their asses off to get us something that is usable and solid. We just have to accept it for the way it is. Or people can choose to not accept it, and be miserable that this isn't D2.
as in most games the higher the lvl the longer it takes to get a lvl up, as i believe they made lvl 60 as hard and as long to get as to get to lvl 99 in d2( and if i am not wrong most of the player base in d2 wasn't lvl 99 on the dot) - i don't consider my self a hardcore d2 player so my highest char which i lvled normal was about lvl 62 in d2, after years of not playing i went back to playing and used the rush/boss runs to lvl rly fast so around lvl 80-85 u started to get a lvl every 5 highest boss runs with another 7 players in game, and i needed every lvl even more runs till u r going crazy. so think about going through all that without having all ur skills available to u( and as orinrin said and i said on a different thread - ppl as causal as me most likely won't get all skills which imo is bad), and in d3 u would need to go through nm and hell for better xp to get to lvl 60(which isn't according to bliz "u will die - we promise" video a casual player difficulty).
now as i understand it in the old system there were all kind of runes and rune ranks available to drop and after u assign it to a skill it will "mark" that rune to it , so even after taking it out u can't put it in another skill( cuz it's already marked) - so it's not like every rune that drops have a skill already assign to it. now as i understand it rank 1-2 runes would have dropped very often at normal so at lvl 30-40 u would have already found a certain rune to every skill u have(even if it's a low rank 1) - so u would have still have all ur skills u wanted.
no argue in that it took too much inventory , but i believe u can make a rune only inventory so it won't take space in ur normal inventory.
sadly for the dead zone of lvls 30-60 , i don't have a creative idea how to solve that problem, but imho dead zone of lvls 30-60 < not have all ur skills while lvling.( u can still fill that dead zone with finding better items and better rune ranks)
as much as i liked the idea to find a better rune rank i will be fine as long as they lower the last rune skill i get to around lvl 40-50, not to say some1 post that the skill essence of burn of the monk is only at lvl 56 and if thats in release i will be heart broken :P.
anyway these r my thoughts - i believe bliz will do the right thing, and even if they won't change it that way - i will get use to that and still enjoy the game.
best regards,
It seems that everyone that enjoys this change only focuses on the previously broken system and doesn't understand that the new system has many drawbacks that could have been avoided with a more thought out system. This was a rushed change.
Most people will agree that it's better than the broken rune system before. However, most people against the new change realize that there are a million better ways to fix the problem besides to get rid of them.
Stop listening to the blizzard hype machine. It's PR speak. The previous system had too many runes. There are many solutions. You could just have x ranks of runes and x types of runes. Then you would only have to worry about around 30 runes instead of the gigantic number that blizzard BR threw out to scare people. Also, you could make them stackable and/or not located in your backpack but in the rune window. These are ideas that you can easily come up with in a couple of minutes. Imagine what you could come up with if more time was put into it.
With this change we lost:
1.) Rune Ranks
2.) Being able to use the rune you want while leveling
3.) Increasing your skill power once you reach max level
4.) the excitement of rune drops
5.) I'm a little worried about balance. This will greatly affect the balance of everything leveling up. I'm sure they're working on this but I have a feeling it'll be easier in normal/nightmare now.
we gained:
inventory space
something to gain after lvl 30
Personally, I'm pretty disappointed that we have to lose #1 and #3 due to this change. There's still hope that they add something in Inferno that can upgrade our "learned" runes but I would be surprised if they added that. Anyone that was looking forward to Inferno should be pretty disappointed with the new rune system.
Pretty much anyone with two brain cells to rub together saw that the old incarnation of the rune system wouldn't work. It would've been an inventory headache and a balancing nightmare (what rank runes do you balance inferno around? 7? What happens to everyone who doesn't have rank 7 runes? Do you balance around 4? What happens when people get all rank 7? Trivialize NE content?)
Nah, the new system is loads better. This incessant crying and whining will go away after the children get over their "Blizz just took my toys!" tantrum and they realize this systems pros outweigh the cons. Or they won't get over it. But who gives a shit if they don't. Their loss.
I think this iteration does solve the stash space issue. The only thing I would like to see changed is the ability to choose a rune skill of your choice. The only down fall I see in that is if I unlock the skill leap attack, I might go ahead and choose a rune skill for that immediately without ever using the base skill which I think is not a good idea. So my idea would be that rune skills wouldn't unlock for a particular skill until 4 or 5 levels after you have unlocked the base skill. So that would mean at lvl. 5 you would get to choose one skill rune for the skill you started the game with. Then at lvl 6. you could either unlock a 2nd skill rune for the skill you got at lvl. 1 or select a rune skill from the skill you got a lvl 2. This way you would get a taste of all skills in their base form. This would create build diversity through the entire leveling process and it would be hard to find 2 players using the same exact skill sets.
With this change we lost:
1.) Rune Ranks
2.) Being able to use the rune you want while leveling
3.) Increasing your skill power once you reach max level
4.) the excitement of rune drops
5.) I'm a little worried about balance. This will greatly affect the balance of everything leveling up. I'm sure they're working on this but I have a feeling it'll be easier in normal/nightmare now.
we gained:
inventory space
something to gain after lvl 30
Personally, I'm pretty disappointed that we have to lose #1 and #3 due to this change. There's still hope that they add something in Inferno that can upgrade our "learned" runes but I would be surprised if they added that. Anyone that was looking forward to Inferno should be pretty disappointed with the new rune system.
I think that is why rune skills are equivalent to rank 3 - 5 rune stones, I think they plan to add +modifiers or something to lvl them up at end game.
@Ruppgu - I look forward to the difficulties and gear rewards of Inferno, not for runes lol. You need to farm gear from Hell to even stand a chance in Inferno, but guess what? 1 more rank in runes will not overcome a gear disparity.
Yes we lost the things you mentioned, but it's good that we lost them. Even in D2, you got runes to drop, but they weren't ranked. If you needed a certain type, you cubed them to get what you needed. It's not like you had a Rank 4 Ber to drop but what you really wanted was a Rank 6. The old iteration of the rune system did not make sense.
I really don't understand how you gauge the entire difficulty of a game based on runes. If anything, getting all the rune types right away made it easier to get through those difficulties because you are going to use flavor of the month runes that require less thought to kill things. Now you only have what's available for that specific level you are at, and it's up to you to figure out how to get through those encounters.
I really don't understand how you gauge the entire difficulty of a game based on runes. If anything, getting all the rune types right away made it easier to get through those difficulties because you are going to use flavor of the month runes that require less thought to kill things. Now you only have what's available for that specific level you are at, and it's up to you to figure out how to get through those encounters.
I'm worried because if the runes are balanced to be rank 3-5 stones, there will be points in the game where you now have a rank 3-5 runed skill that you didn't before (because they don't drop yet). This will require massive rebalancing to these areas or else they will be too easy.
Another possible negative of the new system. Are the runes that unlock near 60 going to be balanced with the ones you receive at lvl 6? It would be a shame if the ones that are unlocked near lvl 60 are more powerful because then the rune choices at lvl 60 won't be very interesting. At the same time, I'm not sure what it will be like though, is this info released anywhere yet?
#1- Enough with the '4200 runes' argument, that system was never fully implemented; people against this new system advocated the old one: 5 rune types that fit all skills, 7 rune ranks per type, total 35 different runes.
5 runes per skill, 23 skills per class, 5 classes, not counting repeats. All in one universal stash. It was an inventory nightmare, whether you would like to admit it or not.
#2- A very high fact that you won't even try the build you wanted? Try again. In the old system, lower level runes were fairly common, so you would never want a crimson rune and not have it (for long). And don't tell me that your particular build absolutely needs level 7 runes to work, that's BS. The old system guaranteed that you'd have all varieties of runes fairly quickly, while still maintaining the desire to hunt for more powerful (but not essential) rune ranks.
Thank you for admitting what a balancing nightmare this would have been.
#3- So, it's okay to grind for gems, but not for runes? I don't follow you.
Gems combine to reduce from 3 to 1. Follow now?
#4- "Im really happy about the changes, and this way, it will give the people with a gaming attention span of a normal play through, more of a reason to play the higher difficulties." - and now we get to the heart of the matter.
Not all of us accept every bone Blizzard trow at us, pskfry your one of those fanboys who speak thru his ass, "so what" is your motto.
So what if we don`t have hard choices anymore, so what if is auto-levelling, so what if the game is dump down to a papamole state.
Yes not all of us obey blindly Blizzard, people have different opinions, live with it.
Actually, I played the beta, and I love the shit out of the game. Some of it isn't perfect but I don't go around bitching like a moron about systems that make sense. You are a complete fucking tool and I wish you would go away and never come back. You have not ever said a single positive thing on these boards.
I have criticized a lot about this game and I think that Blizzard could have found a better solution (this system, combined with an upgraded rune drop in higher difficulties would've made me very happy) but that's not what they chose to do and this system will work fine. The fact is the game is incredibly fun and addicting and that's what matters. The things you bitch and moan about nonstop simply don't matter to me. You act like they're the end of the world. Honestly, just go away.
5 runes per skill, 23 skills per class, 5 classes, not counting repeats. All in one universal stash. It was an inventory nightmare, whether you would like to admit it or not.
Are you seriously telling me you would have collected every rune of every level for every skill and class? Thats bullshit. You'd play around with them at the start and then quickly settle into your desired build and focus on those. Yeah, there might be a few anal retentive players having to collect them all, but thats not the majority of players.
Thank you for admitting what a balancing nightmare this would have been.
Please explain after reading above?
Gems combine to reduce from 3 to 1. Follow now?
Yep they do, but.... there's 4 types of gems, 14 levels requiring 3 of each level to combine up to the next. Do the math, Gems are a bigger issue then the proposed rune system listed above.
#4- "Im really happy about the changes, and this way, it will give the people with a gaming attention span of a normal play through, more of a reason to play the higher difficulties." - and now we get to the heart of the matter.
You say that like its a bad thing.
It is. The game is balanced for people with "an attention span of normal" to play till normal. The higher difficulties are for hardcore players. Also, what you aren't comprehending is with the old system, you could have your build and runes you wanted by level 30 (your "normal attention span") Now however, you CAN'T have your build till you reach 60 (well beyond your limited attention span)
That is why they do a beta to test things nothing is perfect and I don't know about Diablo beta ,but WoW beta has a feedback system ingame and you can post about almost anything even after you do a quest to.
Runes as they were looked like a huge goldsink and/or an inventory space liability. Now you can just adjust your build anytime for whatever boss you're facing and at no added cost if you want to experiment wtih a skill or even if you want to run an MF farming build.
Definately liking this change and just like they said, it will make levelling far more exciting since you're essentially getting a new "skill" to play with every lv.
Please stop saying this. Read the threads to see why people are saying it wasn't with their first implementation. Even if it was, there are other solutions to those problems then completely removing runes (which is what they did)
No, it doesn't make leveling more exciting. You just go "oh nice, i unlocked another rune i dont' want to use for this skill. Gotta way till 58 for my build!!"
Since none of us had the chance to play the full game by now, we can't really comment on that change. But by now I think it was a good chance because inventory space was really rare in diablo 2 and the idea of losing the slots for the runes by default really sounds bad. It is also a nice motivation to level your character.
Sure we can. The new system functions EXACTLY the same at level 13 as it will at level 59. See what i'm getting at?
So going into harder difficulties, being able to equip higher, level restricted gear, being able to craft higher level restricted gear, etc etc is not motivation enough for you? if the only reason you will level past 30 Normal is to see a shiny graphic saying you were handed a rune (you probably won't use) then you won't be around long.
This system is not a fix. It's a quick band aid solution. It's lazy and poorly implemented.
There basically ISN"T a rune system anymore. You simply have 25 major skills and you unlock variants as you level. End of story. No runes.
Their solution to the "runestone problem" was to remove runes period.
so that means the idea of having diffrent skills that you can modify whit the unlockable "runes" is LESS and wrong?
i agree whit op 100% i knew the system was faulty, i can even explain why ALLOT more in dept if its required... but lets give you an example!!
there is 5 characters
Lets say there is 25 skills on each character
each skill have 5 modifers (runes)
meaning (5*25)*5=625 POSSIBLE runes in the game.
there was RANKS in these runes... 7 ranks total... (not that you want of all ranks... so im not gonna count it)
aaaaand if you make a "new" monk after your already maxed monk, you need atleast 6 more runes
where are you gonna keep these?
your CHEST is shared whit all characters... so there is gear there and... runes? the chest can have 70 slots. each page
3 pages...
so you have 210 shared slots (maximum) + 60*10 inventory slots.
equaling 810 slots
if you wanna keep ALL runes, of 1 RANK, (not counting those 6 used on every character)
you will have a total of 565 slots of your 810 MAXIMUM POSSIBLE slots, for runes.
(this is if your 2 of same class use totally different runes, and none the exact same as the other one of the same class)
and yea some items also....
and you don't consider this old system "broken" ? ^^
-----------
the new system is alllllot cleaner, smoother, easier to understand for new players, and it helps when testing out and figuring out your build. ALSO it gives rewards all the way to lvl 60, a new reason to push your level to 60 (THAT rune sounds awesome! i want to try it out)
- i Sign this post "from the mind of a Gamedesigner"
Their solution as to which rune skills get unlocked at certain levels may not be the best, but people are just mad they can't have the skills that they plugged into the talent calculator right away to plow through Nightmare -> Inferno. I guess people who accept it for what it is must be terrible at chess and not self-entitled.
Do you ever think before you post? Those "thousands of animations" - you realize that the rune skills will do the same thing as before as if the system never changed? All that is different is that the runes are no longer drops and are unlocked at different levels in the game. They also reduced storage because of it.
They had a grand vision of how the rune system would be, and then they found out it was not realistic. They made a firm decision, and now we have a working system. If people didn't follow this game every second, you'd never notice the difference.
Look, I know Blizzard isn't perfect and some of the game systems aren't perfect in beta 13, but you kids spew absolute garbage that makes no sense. They had a plan, it didn't work, so they changed it to make it work. That's what iterations of development is about, in any industry.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
Don't bother trying to reason with Crysto37 - this dude does nothing but bash Blizzard and complain about the game. First it was stat allocation, then it was the skill tree, now it's the changes to the rune system. This kid does nothing but bitch and can't be reasoned with.
The whole point is that they had a plan, knew it wasn't going to work, and worked their asses off to get us something that is usable and solid. We just have to accept it for the way it is. Or people can choose to not accept it, and be miserable that this isn't D2.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
We are now given incentive to reach max level so we can use all our abilities augmentations via the skillrunes.
I'm guessing the higher lvl skillrunes will be more powerful to aid you in those higher difficulty levels.
now as i understand it in the old system there were all kind of runes and rune ranks available to drop and after u assign it to a skill it will "mark" that rune to it , so even after taking it out u can't put it in another skill( cuz it's already marked) - so it's not like every rune that drops have a skill already assign to it. now as i understand it rank 1-2 runes would have dropped very often at normal so at lvl 30-40 u would have already found a certain rune to every skill u have(even if it's a low rank 1) - so u would have still have all ur skills u wanted.
no argue in that it took too much inventory , but i believe u can make a rune only inventory so it won't take space in ur normal inventory.
sadly for the dead zone of lvls 30-60 , i don't have a creative idea how to solve that problem, but imho dead zone of lvls 30-60 < not have all ur skills while lvling.( u can still fill that dead zone with finding better items and better rune ranks)
as much as i liked the idea to find a better rune rank i will be fine as long as they lower the last rune skill i get to around lvl 40-50, not to say some1 post that the skill essence of burn of the monk is only at lvl 56 and if thats in release i will be heart broken :P.
anyway these r my thoughts - i believe bliz will do the right thing, and even if they won't change it that way - i will get use to that and still enjoy the game.
best regards,
Arrok
Most people will agree that it's better than the broken rune system before. However, most people against the new change realize that there are a million better ways to fix the problem besides to get rid of them.
Stop listening to the blizzard hype machine. It's PR speak. The previous system had too many runes. There are many solutions. You could just have x ranks of runes and x types of runes. Then you would only have to worry about around 30 runes instead of the gigantic number that blizzard BR threw out to scare people. Also, you could make them stackable and/or not located in your backpack but in the rune window. These are ideas that you can easily come up with in a couple of minutes. Imagine what you could come up with if more time was put into it.
With this change we lost:
1.) Rune Ranks
2.) Being able to use the rune you want while leveling
3.) Increasing your skill power once you reach max level
4.) the excitement of rune drops
5.) I'm a little worried about balance. This will greatly affect the balance of everything leveling up. I'm sure they're working on this but I have a feeling it'll be easier in normal/nightmare now.
we gained:
inventory space
something to gain after lvl 30
Personally, I'm pretty disappointed that we have to lose #1 and #3 due to this change. There's still hope that they add something in Inferno that can upgrade our "learned" runes but I would be surprised if they added that. Anyone that was looking forward to Inferno should be pretty disappointed with the new rune system.
Nah, the new system is loads better. This incessant crying and whining will go away after the children get over their "Blizz just took my toys!" tantrum and they realize this systems pros outweigh the cons. Or they won't get over it. But who gives a shit if they don't. Their loss.
I think that is why rune skills are equivalent to rank 3 - 5 rune stones, I think they plan to add +modifiers or something to lvl them up at end game.
Yes we lost the things you mentioned, but it's good that we lost them. Even in D2, you got runes to drop, but they weren't ranked. If you needed a certain type, you cubed them to get what you needed. It's not like you had a Rank 4 Ber to drop but what you really wanted was a Rank 6. The old iteration of the rune system did not make sense.
I really don't understand how you gauge the entire difficulty of a game based on runes. If anything, getting all the rune types right away made it easier to get through those difficulties because you are going to use flavor of the month runes that require less thought to kill things. Now you only have what's available for that specific level you are at, and it's up to you to figure out how to get through those encounters.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
I'm worried because if the runes are balanced to be rank 3-5 stones, there will be points in the game where you now have a rank 3-5 runed skill that you didn't before (because they don't drop yet). This will require massive rebalancing to these areas or else they will be too easy.
Another possible negative of the new system. Are the runes that unlock near 60 going to be balanced with the ones you receive at lvl 6? It would be a shame if the ones that are unlocked near lvl 60 are more powerful because then the rune choices at lvl 60 won't be very interesting. At the same time, I'm not sure what it will be like though, is this info released anywhere yet?
5 runes per skill, 23 skills per class, 5 classes, not counting repeats. All in one universal stash. It was an inventory nightmare, whether you would like to admit it or not.
Thank you for admitting what a balancing nightmare this would have been.
Gems combine to reduce from 3 to 1. Follow now?
You say that like its a bad thing.
Actually, I played the beta, and I love the shit out of the game. Some of it isn't perfect but I don't go around bitching like a moron about systems that make sense. You are a complete fucking tool and I wish you would go away and never come back. You have not ever said a single positive thing on these boards.
I have criticized a lot about this game and I think that Blizzard could have found a better solution (this system, combined with an upgraded rune drop in higher difficulties would've made me very happy) but that's not what they chose to do and this system will work fine. The fact is the game is incredibly fun and addicting and that's what matters. The things you bitch and moan about nonstop simply don't matter to me. You act like they're the end of the world. Honestly, just go away.
Are you seriously telling me you would have collected every rune of every level for every skill and class? Thats bullshit. You'd play around with them at the start and then quickly settle into your desired build and focus on those. Yeah, there might be a few anal retentive players having to collect them all, but thats not the majority of players.
Please explain after reading above?
Yep they do, but.... there's 4 types of gems, 14 levels requiring 3 of each level to combine up to the next. Do the math, Gems are a bigger issue then the proposed rune system listed above.
It is. The game is balanced for people with "an attention span of normal" to play till normal. The higher difficulties are for hardcore players. Also, what you aren't comprehending is with the old system, you could have your build and runes you wanted by level 30 (your "normal attention span") Now however, you CAN'T have your build till you reach 60 (well beyond your limited attention span)
Follow?
Please stop saying this. Read the threads to see why people are saying it wasn't with their first implementation. Even if it was, there are other solutions to those problems then completely removing runes (which is what they did)
No, it doesn't make leveling more exciting. You just go "oh nice, i unlocked another rune i dont' want to use for this skill. Gotta way till 58 for my build!!"
It burns me to see people all giddy with the changes because they don't have the ability to see beyond their nose. They must be poor chess players.
Sure we can. The new system functions EXACTLY the same at level 13 as it will at level 59. See what i'm getting at?
So going into harder difficulties, being able to equip higher, level restricted gear, being able to craft higher level restricted gear, etc etc is not motivation enough for you? if the only reason you will level past 30 Normal is to see a shiny graphic saying you were handed a rune (you probably won't use) then you won't be around long.
so that means the idea of having diffrent skills that you can modify whit the unlockable "runes" is LESS and wrong?
i agree whit op 100% i knew the system was faulty, i can even explain why ALLOT more in dept if its required... but lets give you an example!!
there is 5 characters
Lets say there is 25 skills on each character
each skill have 5 modifers (runes)
meaning (5*25)*5=625 POSSIBLE runes in the game.
there was RANKS in these runes... 7 ranks total... (not that you want of all ranks... so im not gonna count it)
aaaaand if you make a "new" monk after your already maxed monk, you need atleast 6 more runes
where are you gonna keep these?
your CHEST is shared whit all characters... so there is gear there and... runes? the chest can have 70 slots. each page
3 pages...
so you have 210 shared slots (maximum) + 60*10 inventory slots.
equaling 810 slots
if you wanna keep ALL runes, of 1 RANK, (not counting those 6 used on every character)
you will have a total of 565 slots of your 810 MAXIMUM POSSIBLE slots, for runes.
(this is if your 2 of same class use totally different runes, and none the exact same as the other one of the same class)
and yea some items also....
and you don't consider this old system "broken" ? ^^
-----------
the new system is alllllot cleaner, smoother, easier to understand for new players, and it helps when testing out and figuring out your build. ALSO it gives rewards all the way to lvl 60, a new reason to push your level to 60 (THAT rune sounds awesome! i want to try it out)
- i Sign this post "from the mind of a Gamedesigner"
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile