Ok, ok. Now. Use your brains for a second.
The whole cinematics shows a vision of a girl on a throne room, with a big big empty throne. Then bad guy comes in, and states that he wants to be most powerful demon.
Empty Demon Throne. Demon who wants to be king of demons. Empty Demon Throne. He wants to be in it.
See it now?
If you dont understad that 123 logic, then I give up -.-
The whole idea of the empty throne allegory it's orchestrated to make us understand that there's NO ONE sitting in there.
Well we just have to wait and see, ill still bet you that you are wrong
Oh yeah, I'm with you on that, I'm probably wrong in a lot of stuff. But which one do you mean, the lesser evils stuff, or Azmodan wanting to sit on the big empty Throne?
My 2cents:
I think in the cinematics panel vid when the blizz guy refer to the "lesser evils" sitting on the thrones, it might not really refer to Andariel, Durial, Belial and Azmodan. It doesn't make sense. Why would Azmodan be in his true form and not Belial? (Belial being the only other lesser evil not killed by the hero). And isn't Belial at that moment in Caldeum with his viper minions and shit? Might be wrong.
It only makes sense that that room is Azomdan's (or current ruler of hell - in this case Azmodan) "Throne Room" with his 6 generals (in this case 6 generals, not necessarily representing the 7 deadly sins, cause Azmodan is said to be the embodiment of all 7 sins). OR it could just be 6 guardians who guards the Throne room...
In the vid there are 6 generals sitting on their mini thrones, we just see 3 of them (left of big throne), thus only 3 concept art pics.
I'm watching this video over and over, and you know what, I think you're right!
This sequence is shouting to my face that Azmodan IS the owner of the Great Throne. He's just not there because he went to the toilet.
And the seven generals of Azmodan are actually six. Weird decision by the cinematics team. And they dont look at all like representations of the seven sins. Weird indeed.
And I wonder why did they chose to make the seven, oh sorry, six (in fact, three) generals old, ancient and almost primordial creatures... almost if they where something grater and far more imporatant than just some lousy mid bosses.
Yeah, you're right, my fault, I totally misread the signs.
1- That's beacause the generals have nothing to do with the thrones
2- Since when does Azmodan rules over hell?
3- That's beacause they are NOT the generals!
4- No, look at it, there is not another throne, they are Not the generals!
Yeah Calavera because you work for Blizzard and you know it all right??
I think it is quite interesting that they say that Azmodan have 7 generals, then show a cinematic with 7 thrones with some demons on there, and on the end you decide that this things are not related and we all have to believe you.
Until Blizzard comes out to say that those are not the generals, or one of us play the full game and check it out, they can even be Santa Claus... I don't see why can't they be the generals or why can't exist a 7th throne!!
Have you seen the entire room? For all I know you were even discussing they where only 3 guys when in the storyboard I can see 6...
About Azmodan... All the Dfans know that the Prime Evils were kicked out of Hell during the revolution and the Lesser Evils stayed there ruling. Besides that, that can be Azmodan throne instead of Hell throne. We have no idea of where this chamber is...
You should be discussing what that is, instead of try to make us all think like you do. None of us have any proof of what they are. So they can easily be the generals or something else!!
I dont need to be at blizzard to realize that there are only seven thrones.
There are also seven lords of hell/greater evils.
No one talked about any generals at the cinematic panel.
Instead, they stated and confirmed that the three guys who turn to Leah are lesser evils.
And if both, Azmodan and Belial, kicked the prime evils out of hell, how the did Azmodan turned into the ruler of hell? Is there something about Belial being casted out of hell that I do not know? Please, enlight me.
Now, IF they've spent countless hours working on a cinematic, to make understand that the throne was Belial's, they would have putted him sitting in it. It would have been clear and extremely obvious that it was his throne, his room, and his generals. Non of that appears in the cinematic. IN FACT, he says that he desires to become the prime evil once and for all. The symbol of ascension to maximum control of hell, is the Throne. To be the ascension prime evilness, is the ascension to the Throne. They can't make it any more clearer.
Big throne, above all the rest. Is empty. Azmodan tells he plans to become ruler of hell. He plans to sit atop the highest throne of hell.
Then, why the hell would his generals be occupying the rest of the thrones, if he's not in command? In fact, why the hell would his generals look like creppy, old, pertified, smokey and dormant lords?
Some interesting ideas in this topic. I'd just like to throw a few observations of my own out there. Not really sure who is on the thrones, but I think it is safe to say that all 6 "lesser" thrones are occupied.
We know that the 3 chairs on our left are occupied as seen in this picture.
Now if you look closely at this picture you can see the "crown" on the head of the first figure on the left as well as see similar shapes on the 2 figures on the right. This picture includes the third figure on the right, and you can see it has a similar "crown" to the first figure on the left.
As to who they are (or represent), I'd just be grasping at straws. But, if I had to guess, I think it represents the other defeated lords of hell (7 chairs total for the 7 evils of the burning hells). I'd speculate the video takes place between the 2nd and 3rd acts (you would have defeated Belial, leaving only Azmodan left) hence the reason all the occupants of the chairs look so skeletal (and the reason Azmodan references all the others being fooled by a trap).
I think the video itself is more sybolism and representation and as a "dream/vision" doesn't nessisarily depict 100% reality.
EDIT: Don't forget we are only seeing a portion of the video!
EDIT2: Sorry for the horribly quality, my work computer is a cheap PoS xD
I find it most likely that it is Azmodan's throne room, not Hell's. I just can't see Meph and Baal getting the same type throne as the Lesser Evils. The distinction is made between Prime and Lesser, not Diablo and The Rest.
I also don't see why Diablo lore would need to copy the seven deadly sins from Earth's lore. I've always seen the Evils (Anguish,Pain,Lies,Sin,Hatred,Destruction,Terror) as the Diablo lore equivalent of the list of sins... though more like the seven deadly punishments.
If you guys are so picky about this. Think about this:
Azmodans ass, how can it fit in that throne? He is surrounded by his own crab legs, is kinda hard to sit in that chair.
Just say'n!
Haha see your point. But what about Baal, Mephisto, Duriel? They also have body structures not able to sit on a throne. In fact Diablo, has a tail that will be in the way. Also Andarial, she's probably the most body-on-throne-able-d. I think the throne in the vid is just a symbol of being king/queen.
If you guys are so picky about this. Think about this:
Azmodans ass, how can it fit in that throne? He is surrounded by his own crab legs, is kinda hard to sit in that chair.
Just say'n!
Haha see your point. But what about Baal, Mephisto, Duriel? They also have body structures not able to sit on a throne. In fact Diablo, has a tail that will be in the way. Also Andarial, she's probably the most body-on-throne-able-d. I think the throne in the vid is just a symbol of being king/queen.
-or-
Diablos true form was more humanoid like Baal and Mephisto. All three was "weak" and had other vesseles and never got around to be FULLY complete / powerful. But Azmodan is living in Hell and should be 100% strong and 100% true in form. Get me?
Three prime evils, dark exile, human vessels, weaker forms, not true forms.
Edit: and andarial and duriel was prince and a maid (?) they sat on the floor the whole time, playing "Go fish" with a deck of cards.
Edit 2: Diablo had no tail in Diablo 1. King leorics son: very weak, Dark Wanderer: Okey, Next: Stronger.
I dont need to be at blizzard to realize that there are only seven thrones.
There are also seven lords of hell/greater evils.
No one talked about any generals at the cinematic panel.
Instead, they stated and confirmed that the three guys who turn to Leah are lesser evils.
And if both, Azmodan and Belial, kicked the prime evils out of hell, how the did Azmodan turned into the ruler of hell? Is there something about Belial being casted out of hell that I do not know? Please, enlight me.
Now, IF they've spent countless hours working on a cinematic, to make understand that the throne was Belial's, they would have putted him sitting in it. It would have been clear and extremely obvious that it was his throne, his room, and his generals. Non of that appears in the cinematic. IN FACT, he says that he desires to become the prime evil once and for all. The symbol of ascension to maximum control of hell, is the Throne. To be the ascension prime evilness, is the ascension to the Throne. They can't make it any more clearer.
Big throne, above all the rest. Is empty. Azmodan tells he plans to become ruler of hell. He plans to sit atop the highest throne of hell.
Then, why the hell would his generals be occupying the rest of the thrones, if he's not in command? In fact, why the hell would his generals look like creppy, old, pertified, smokey and dormant lords?
It says Azmodan beat Belial in the civil war. There's another page that says he won the civil war and ruled Hell for 300 years. I have to dig deeper to find that link, but I'll post it up here when I get home from work. It doesn't explain much as far as the thrones go, but at least it lets you know what went down between Azmodan and Belial as far as the war over Hell goes.
Okay I'm throwing in my thoughts here. I'm going to try and pull from facts and from the lore panel to make the most realistic thought possible.
Known:
3 Prime Evils:
-Mephisto (killed in D2)
-Baal (killed in D2 LoD, right befoe the destruction of the Worldstone)
-Diablo (currently in the Abyss, but we know he will be returning)
Lesser Evils:
-Andariel (Killed in D2)
-Duriel (killed in D2)
-Azmodan (Alive and planning invasion)
-Belial (Alive and in the city of Caldeum, twisting it around)
From Cinematic:
- Six thrones (that we can see) with one major in middle
-The six thrones are occupied.
-NOTE: They said parts were edited and left out for spoiler reasons, so we don't know all information.
From Lore Panel:
-Azmodan is launching the invasion from Arreat Creater (was answered in Q&A). Place where Worldstone disappeared, where reality is weakest currently.
-Told that Azmodan has 7 "lieutenants" each one representing each sin. Evidence is the renaming/bringing back of "Mistress of Pain" to "Maiden of Lust".
-The Maiden of Lust was the one of two we would run into, the other wasn't mentioned.
-Belial is in the city of Caldeum screwing around with it; as foward step in weakening it so Azmodan has an easier time with the invasion or something else we don't know yet.
OKAY, here I go stringing things together:
-With the invasion on the way, starting from Arreat Creater, we only see 6 Thrones. It could be that there are seven and we don't see all, OR the fact when the base was created there, the unknown 7th "lieutenant" went rouge and is trying to stop Azmodan, Help Summon/release Diablo, or something else completely.
-Beliel is speculated to be the ACT II bose, with Azmodan being ACT III bose, leading to Diablo being ACT IV bose.
That's it as far as this thread is consernd, BUT one thing was said in the lore panel that was simple but very profound, which is:
"With the death of Azmodan, there will be NO more Lords of Hell..."
All the Prime and lessers will be gone one way or another, so a great power vacuum will be left by the end of the game (if we can assume we just kill off all prime/lesser evils). What will happen? The way the Diablo Universe came to be is the great, ever struggle between Good and Evil, with Sanctuary only further complicating the manner, but there has always been a balance maintained. I really can't see heaven running in and taking advantage and destroying all of hell. That would leave a pretty weird set of circumstances after the fact. Whats the point of the angels now? Whats the point of heaven? Will a new evil, by necessary, be created in heaven to become the new "hell" to prevent the all of existence from collapsing?
It was answered that something from heaven, and inevitable from hell, could not become the other. Was stated in the Lore panel Q&A, so I don't think a pure take over of hell will happen. Something else will come to take its place.
(Expansion talk)
Thinking into the future, in a sort of bringing the universe full circle in a way, I think somehow Lilith will reemerge to over take the armies of hell, and kill any who oppose her. Also to use the destruction of the worldstone to try once again to form a Nephalem army along with a demon army to wipe out Heaven and reign over all of creation herself alone.
-Beliel is speculated to be the ACT II bose, with Azmodan being ACT III bose, leading to Diablo being ACT IV bose.
I think everything strings together in your post pretty well except for this part, which is a commonly held belief, but I don't think it's going to turn out correct.
I think they've pushed the Angel lore too much to just ignore it all game long and bring it in as an expansion, or just as an aside in one of the acts. Keep in mind the Heaven/Angels in Diablo lore is not like our version of Heaven in common religions. Almost all of the Angels see Humanity as a threat, a weapon that could fall into demonic hands, and/or as "part demon" and should therefore be destroyed.
We still have the fallen star we see in Act I, which could have fallen from Heaven, or could have fallen from the beyond (think banished Sin War Trilogy villains).
There's also the scriptures in the lore talking about the heavens shall break open and flames shall fall upon Sanctuary... (paraphrasing), I think it's a pretty strong indication that Angels are bringing war upon Humanity.
So... my point is I could see Beliel/Azmodan in Act II, Member(s) of the Angiris Council (or Inarius) in Act III, and Diablo as Act IV endboss, and then bring back Lillith and/or Inarius, and other members of the Angiris Council for expansions.
That's it as far as this thread is consernd, BUT one thing was said in the lore panel that was simple but very profound, which is:
"With the death of Azmodan, there will be NO more Lords of Hell..."
All the Prime and lessers will be gone one way or another, so a great power vacuum will be left by the end of the game (if we can assume we just kill off all prime/lesser evils). What will happen? The way the Diablo Universe came to be is the great, ever struggle between Good and Evil, with Sanctuary only further complicating the manner, but there has always been a balance maintained. I really can't see heaven running in and taking advantage and destroying all of hell. That would leave a pretty weird set of circumstances after the fact. Whats the point of the angels now? Whats the point of heaven? Will a new evil, by necessary, be created in heaven to become the new "hell" to prevent the all of existence from collapsing?
So technically.
Heaven got some angels.
Sanctuary got some guys.
Hell got ... 1.. Diablo.
If there is a balance here... and if Diablo is the ONLY ONE to have the HELL balance.. Then Diablo is one mean mofo with 100% power without sharing it, since the balance give each 33,33333% (100 + 100 + 100 %)
This should mean that all angels -or- all humans could kill Diablo ONLY if they get together.
Unless, as mentioned, Humans in Diablo Universe are not bound to the LAWS of BALANCE. Kinda like Neo in The Matrix.
Balance you say, I say this shit is getting real if they play it like that!
Some cool posts here. Just some thoughts/question:
What would happen if an angel slammed a soulstone into his forehead? Could be pretty cool.
Can anyone tell me why Diablo has the fortitude to keep coming back after he's killed, but the other prime evils are considered deadsies for good? Is there some sort of lore reason, or is just convenience/writing?
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The whole cinematics shows a vision of a girl on a throne room, with a big big empty throne. Then bad guy comes in, and states that he wants to be most powerful demon.
Empty Demon Throne. Demon who wants to be king of demons. Empty Demon Throne. He wants to be in it.
See it now?
If you dont understad that 123 logic, then I give up -.-
The whole idea of the empty throne allegory it's orchestrated to make us understand that there's NO ONE sitting in there.
Oh yeah, I'm with you on that, I'm probably wrong in a lot of stuff. But which one do you mean, the lesser evils stuff, or Azmodan wanting to sit on the big empty Throne?
I think in the cinematics panel vid when the blizz guy refer to the "lesser evils" sitting on the thrones, it might not really refer to Andariel, Durial, Belial and Azmodan. It doesn't make sense. Why would Azmodan be in his true form and not Belial? (Belial being the only other lesser evil not killed by the hero). And isn't Belial at that moment in Caldeum with his viper minions and shit? Might be wrong.
It only makes sense that that room is Azomdan's (or current ruler of hell - in this case Azmodan) "Throne Room" with his 6 generals (in this case 6 generals, not necessarily representing the 7 deadly sins, cause Azmodan is said to be the embodiment of all 7 sins). OR it could just be 6 guardians who guards the Throne room...
In the vid there are 6 generals sitting on their mini thrones, we just see 3 of them (left of big throne), thus only 3 concept art pics.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
This sequence is shouting to my face that Azmodan IS the owner of the Great Throne. He's just not there because he went to the toilet.
And the seven generals of Azmodan are actually six. Weird decision by the cinematics team. And they dont look at all like representations of the seven sins. Weird indeed.
And I wonder why did they chose to make the seven, oh sorry, six (in fact, three) generals old, ancient and almost primordial creatures... almost if they where something grater and far more imporatant than just some lousy mid bosses.
Yeah, you're right, my fault, I totally misread the signs.
2- Since when does Azmodan rules over hell?
3- That's beacause they are NOT the generals!
4- No, look at it, there is not another throne, they are Not the generals!
I dont need to be at blizzard to realize that there are only seven thrones.
There are also seven lords of hell/greater evils.
No one talked about any generals at the cinematic panel.
Instead, they stated and confirmed that the three guys who turn to Leah are lesser evils.
And if both, Azmodan and Belial, kicked the prime evils out of hell, how the did Azmodan turned into the ruler of hell? Is there something about Belial being casted out of hell that I do not know? Please, enlight me.
Now, IF they've spent countless hours working on a cinematic, to make understand that the throne was Belial's, they would have putted him sitting in it. It would have been clear and extremely obvious that it was his throne, his room, and his generals. Non of that appears in the cinematic. IN FACT, he says that he desires to become the prime evil once and for all. The symbol of ascension to maximum control of hell, is the Throne. To be the ascension prime evilness, is the ascension to the Throne. They can't make it any more clearer.
Big throne, above all the rest. Is empty. Azmodan tells he plans to become ruler of hell. He plans to sit atop the highest throne of hell.
Then, why the hell would his generals be occupying the rest of the thrones, if he's not in command? In fact, why the hell would his generals look like creppy, old, pertified, smokey and dormant lords?
We know that the 3 chairs on our left are occupied as seen in this picture.
Now if you look closely at this picture you can see the "crown" on the head of the first figure on the left as well as see similar shapes on the 2 figures on the right. This picture includes the third figure on the right, and you can see it has a similar "crown" to the first figure on the left.
As to who they are (or represent), I'd just be grasping at straws. But, if I had to guess, I think it represents the other defeated lords of hell (7 chairs total for the 7 evils of the burning hells). I'd speculate the video takes place between the 2nd and 3rd acts (you would have defeated Belial, leaving only Azmodan left) hence the reason all the occupants of the chairs look so skeletal (and the reason Azmodan references all the others being fooled by a trap).
I think the video itself is more sybolism and representation and as a "dream/vision" doesn't nessisarily depict 100% reality.
EDIT: Don't forget we are only seeing a portion of the video!
EDIT2: Sorry for the horribly quality, my work computer is a cheap PoS xD
It's very important to check the concept art. With it, we can try to understand the general idea of the piece.
I also don't see why Diablo lore would need to copy the seven deadly sins from Earth's lore. I've always seen the Evils (Anguish,Pain,Lies,Sin,Hatred,Destruction,Terror) as the Diablo lore equivalent of the list of sins... though more like the seven deadly punishments.
Azmodans ass, how can it fit in that throne? He is surrounded by his own crab legs, is kinda hard to sit in that chair.
Just say'n!
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
-or-
Diablos true form was more humanoid like Baal and Mephisto. All three was "weak" and had other vesseles and never got around to be FULLY complete / powerful. But Azmodan is living in Hell and should be 100% strong and 100% true in form. Get me?
Three prime evils, dark exile, human vessels, weaker forms, not true forms.
Edit: and andarial and duriel was prince and a maid (?) they sat on the floor the whole time, playing "Go fish" with a deck of cards.
Edit 2: Diablo had no tail in Diablo 1. King leorics son: very weak, Dark Wanderer: Okey, Next: Stronger.
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
If you read here: http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Azmodan
It says Azmodan beat Belial in the civil war. There's another page that says he won the civil war and ruled Hell for 300 years. I have to dig deeper to find that link, but I'll post it up here when I get home from work. It doesn't explain much as far as the thrones go, but at least it lets you know what went down between Azmodan and Belial as far as the war over Hell goes.
Known:
3 Prime Evils:
-Mephisto (killed in D2)
-Baal (killed in D2 LoD, right befoe the destruction of the Worldstone)
-Diablo (currently in the Abyss, but we know he will be returning)
Lesser Evils:
-Andariel (Killed in D2)
-Duriel (killed in D2)
-Azmodan (Alive and planning invasion)
-Belial (Alive and in the city of Caldeum, twisting it around)
From Cinematic:
- Six thrones (that we can see) with one major in middle
-The six thrones are occupied.
-NOTE: They said parts were edited and left out for spoiler reasons, so we don't know all information.
From Lore Panel:
-Azmodan is launching the invasion from Arreat Creater (was answered in Q&A). Place where Worldstone disappeared, where reality is weakest currently.
-Told that Azmodan has 7 "lieutenants" each one representing each sin. Evidence is the renaming/bringing back of "Mistress of Pain" to "Maiden of Lust".
-The Maiden of Lust was the one of two we would run into, the other wasn't mentioned.
-Belial is in the city of Caldeum screwing around with it; as foward step in weakening it so Azmodan has an easier time with the invasion or something else we don't know yet.
OKAY, here I go stringing things together:
-With the invasion on the way, starting from Arreat Creater, we only see 6 Thrones. It could be that there are seven and we don't see all, OR the fact when the base was created there, the unknown 7th "lieutenant" went rouge and is trying to stop Azmodan, Help Summon/release Diablo, or something else completely.
-Beliel is speculated to be the ACT II bose, with Azmodan being ACT III bose, leading to Diablo being ACT IV bose.
That's it as far as this thread is consernd, BUT one thing was said in the lore panel that was simple but very profound, which is:
"With the death of Azmodan, there will be NO more Lords of Hell..."
All the Prime and lessers will be gone one way or another, so a great power vacuum will be left by the end of the game (if we can assume we just kill off all prime/lesser evils). What will happen? The way the Diablo Universe came to be is the great, ever struggle between Good and Evil, with Sanctuary only further complicating the manner, but there has always been a balance maintained. I really can't see heaven running in and taking advantage and destroying all of hell. That would leave a pretty weird set of circumstances after the fact. Whats the point of the angels now? Whats the point of heaven? Will a new evil, by necessary, be created in heaven to become the new "hell" to prevent the all of existence from collapsing?
It was answered that something from heaven, and inevitable from hell, could not become the other. Was stated in the Lore panel Q&A, so I don't think a pure take over of hell will happen. Something else will come to take its place.
(Expansion talk)
Thinking into the future, in a sort of bringing the universe full circle in a way, I think somehow Lilith will reemerge to over take the armies of hell, and kill any who oppose her. Also to use the destruction of the worldstone to try once again to form a Nephalem army along with a demon army to wipe out Heaven and reign over all of creation herself alone.
A thought...
I think everything strings together in your post pretty well except for this part, which is a commonly held belief, but I don't think it's going to turn out correct.
I think they've pushed the Angel lore too much to just ignore it all game long and bring it in as an expansion, or just as an aside in one of the acts. Keep in mind the Heaven/Angels in Diablo lore is not like our version of Heaven in common religions. Almost all of the Angels see Humanity as a threat, a weapon that could fall into demonic hands, and/or as "part demon" and should therefore be destroyed.
We still have the fallen star we see in Act I, which could have fallen from Heaven, or could have fallen from the beyond (think banished Sin War Trilogy villains).
There's also the scriptures in the lore talking about the heavens shall break open and flames shall fall upon Sanctuary... (paraphrasing), I think it's a pretty strong indication that Angels are bringing war upon Humanity.
So... my point is I could see Beliel/Azmodan in Act II, Member(s) of the Angiris Council (or Inarius) in Act III, and Diablo as Act IV endboss, and then bring back Lillith and/or Inarius, and other members of the Angiris Council for expansions.
So technically.
Heaven got some angels.
Sanctuary got some guys.
Hell got ... 1.. Diablo.
If there is a balance here... and if Diablo is the ONLY ONE to have the HELL balance.. Then Diablo is one mean mofo with 100% power without sharing it, since the balance give each 33,33333% (100 + 100 + 100 %)
This should mean that all angels -or- all humans could kill Diablo ONLY if they get together.
Unless, as mentioned, Humans in Diablo Universe are not bound to the LAWS of BALANCE. Kinda like Neo in The Matrix.
Balance you say, I say this shit is getting real if they play it like that!
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
seventh throne gone...?
maybe just an angle, but it's a thought
What would happen if an angel slammed a soulstone into his forehead? Could be pretty cool.
Can anyone tell me why Diablo has the fortitude to keep coming back after he's killed, but the other prime evils are considered deadsies for good? Is there some sort of lore reason, or is just convenience/writing?