As most of us already know, one of the main reasons for Inferno difficulty to be equally scaled in level and difficulty across all acts is to provide players incentive to play through all stages of the game to achieve loot. In Diablo 2, there were obvious ways that were more efficient to get good loot, namely Mephisto, Pindleskin, and Baal runs. It's not too far fetched to think that bosses are going to drop the best loot in the game, no matter what, because they're the hardest things to kill. Risk should equal reward, right? If this is the case, and once I get the waypoints to all good bosses in Inferno mode, why should I even bother playing through the other dungeons and areas in the game?
Two words: Loot Goblins (Loot Bandits?). I've noticed in a few streams and videos that these little buggers appear inside dungeons in what is a seemingly random fashion. Once you start hitting them, they spew gold all over the floor, and if you manage to kill it before it runs away (not very hard to do, at least in normal difficulty it seems) it will drop quite a lot of useful loot. In the few times I saw these things go down, they dropped ~2 blue items, page of training, scroll of companion, and a few other white items.
What's up to speculation is if these things have the potential to drop the best loot in Inferno difficulty, like bosses can. If they can drop rare items, that is at least salvageable loot for crafting materials, which I'm sure you're going to want a lot of.
The main thing that's bringing boss runs to a halt is the inability to get to the boss so easily in D3. With Teleport once again belonging only to one class (for the time being...) and having major restrictions, including a cooldown, you're going to have to fight your way to wherever you're trying to go. That means you are forced to play the game normally.
lions and tigers and loot goblins oh my! lol that's awesome, havn't heard a thing on them yet, but i have to say that's a great way to get me to play through every nook n cranny =) I'm also pretty sure since blizzard said inferno is equal across all monsters, that these guys will be equal too =) sweet, i'm gonna hunt me some loot goblins
what Ardikus is trying to say is, it's going to end up the same thing as Diablo II. Most likely the last Act 4 waypoint will be popular, and doing runs of the last boss is what will be the outcome of this game. Why would someone go grinding mobs in Act II to have a chance at dropping rares, when theres a huge chance that killing the last boss in the game WILL drop it.
After people get strategies going, killing the last boss won't be too hard and will be farmed for items.
what Ardikus is trying to say is, it's going to end up the same thing as Diablo II. Most likely the last Act 4 waypoint will be popular, and doing runs of the last boss is what will be the outcome of this game. Why would someone go grinding mobs in Act II to have a chance at dropping rares, when theres a huge chance that killing the last boss in the game WILL drop it.
After people get strategies going, killing the last boss won't be too hard and will be farmed for items.
Yes this is very similar to what I'm trying to express in the first part of my post. There's one drawback to boss runs, however, which is that currently in the beta you have 100% chance to get a rare item on your first kill of Skeleton King, but every subsequent kill has a very low chance of dropping a rare.
Yes this is very similar to what I'm trying to express in the first part of my post. There's one drawback to boss runs, however, which is that currently in the beta you have 100% chance to get a rare item on your first kill of Skeleton King, but every subsequent kill has a very low chance of dropping a rare.
Exactly, people will quickly realize this when Diablo drops a couple blues for them on subsequent kills (just an example of loot, don't shoot me.)
My guess is , Inferno will work like a "raid" instance . Lets say Act1 has X loot table and that everything can drop item from that loot table but boss has alot more chance .
So if you want X loot you wil want to farm act 1 ETC .
As most of us already know, one of the main reasons for Inferno difficulty to be equally scaled in level and difficulty across all acts is to provide players incentive to play through all stages of the game to achieve loot. In Diablo 2, there were obvious ways that were more efficient to get good loot, namely Mephisto, Pindleskin, and Baal runs. It's not too far fetched to think that bosses are going to drop the best loot in the game, no matter what, because they're the hardest things to kill. Risk should equal reward, right? If this is the case, and once I get the waypoints to all good bosses in Inferno mode, why should I even bother playing through the other dungeons and areas in the game?
Two words: Loot Goblins (Loot Bandits?). I've noticed in a few streams and videos that these little buggers appear inside dungeons in what is a seemingly random fashion. Once you start hitting them, they spew gold all over the floor, and if you manage to kill it before it runs away (not very hard to do, at least in normal difficulty it seems) it will drop quite a lot of useful loot. In the few times I saw these things go down, they dropped ~2 blue items, page of training, scroll of companion, and a few other white items.
What's up to speculation is if these things have the potential to drop the best loot in Inferno difficulty, like bosses can. If they can drop rare items, that is at least salvageable loot for crafting materials, which I'm sure you're going to want a lot of.
The goblin or w/e it's name is already in the game so it will randomly spawn through out the game (thus encourage you to hunt every corner of the map) and this comes with the rare and unique bosses.
The runs are inevitable and people will discover what monster drops what often than the others. Discovering these stuff is part of diablo's game play.
edit: deleted my first sentence, after noticing the thread topic name.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
KingCobb, all monsters having the same loot table does not mean all monsters will drop the same amount of loot.
A loot table is your percent chance per roll to drop each item. So while I wouldn't be surprised if it inferno most mobs had very similar loot tables, the real difference is in what could be referred to as your 'treasure type'... which is the number of rolls the game gets to make when you kill x monster.
So say all monsters in Inferno have an equal % chance to drop x item - which has been mostly confirmed. Monster a will have 1 roll, while unique monster y will have 3 rolls, and ultra-boss q will have 15 rolls. So ultra-boss q will still give you an overall better chance despite having the same loot table.
Blizzard isn't going to make bosses in inferno have a chance to drop nothing like regular monsters, that'd just be silly. So they'll set a minimum number of items that are possible to drop, and then give x number of rolls with a chance to generate additional items....
but whether it'll be worth more to kill a boss depends on the time investment really.
How it will work, or at least how they want it to work, is like this.
if in one hour, you could do Four Boss X runs, or
Do one full Act X run. (which means only one boss kill instead of 4)
Both would end up with the same overall chance to drop an item. They want you to be able to choose what and where to play. They figure if its always equal, then you can pick what feels the most fun to you that do, and not what "works best"
This works out, as even though each mob has a very small chance to drop item X, the amount you kill in that one hour, will end up dropping the same amount of items as the three boss runs you missed out on by doing the act run instead of he boss run.
They also said "trasH" can drop the same items as bosses. they want to you clear everything. (or be able to at least)
Unlikely, example, this doesn't explain why Skeleton King drops a rare every kill (I've seen 4 videos, 4/4). Whereas normal mobs clearly don't. Similarly, other quest monsters and gold/rare mobs also don't have such a guaranteed drop.
They also said "trasH" can drop the same items as bosses. they want to you clear everything. (or be able to at least)
Unlikely, example, this doesn't explain why Skeleton King drops a rare every kill (I've seen 4 videos, 4/4). Whereas normal mobs clearly don't. Similarly, other quest monsters and gold/rare mobs also don't have such a guaranteed drop.
..... I dont know if serious...
we are talking about inferno [in which what I said was pretty much confirmed], not normal. (Also skeleton king does not drop a are every kill, only first kill)
They also said "trasH" can drop the same items as bosses. they want to you clear everything. (or be able to at least)
Unlikely, example, this doesn't explain why Skeleton King drops a rare every kill (I've seen 4 videos, 4/4). Whereas normal mobs clearly don't. Similarly, other quest monsters and gold/rare mobs also don't have such a guaranteed drop.
He said they drop the same items, not the same chance to drop, obviously a boss is going to have a slightly higher chance. The meaning of this is you can farm (presumably) X amount of non boss monsters for 1 hour, and get the same chance at loot as if you tried to farm 1 boss for an hour (however many times you can get to him / kill him). It gives you an option of 'I don't have time to run through a boss (because you won't be able to just tele to a boss in 30 secs now) so instead i'll spend the 10 minutes I have before work clearing fallen around act 1'.
One way to encourage full clear dungeon run is to only let bosses in Inferno difficulty to spawn once 3 sub bosses have been killed.
This allows the user to clear 90% of the dungeon as each sub bosses are spread around the map, could be east west south. And since bypassing mob is going to be extremely hard in inferno difficulty, we have no choice but to kill majority of them to avoid facing death.
repeat this for each other sides and then head towards main boss.
Even if you had a main tanker running through the mob, you still eventually have to clear all mobs since they will follow you till wherever you go. This is perfectly fine, which is called "mobbing" a great way to kill group of monsters using aoe.
But the incentive is there, if you want to get the best drop, then clear 3 sub bosses or however there many be.
Which sort of restricts the number of ppl killing the "main" boss drastically. hence reducing the number of epic lewt in game.
this system exists in many other rpg games already and works great to keep players engage in party, trying to work within a certain time.
(strategy can come in.. such as 2, 2 split trying to kill 2 sub boss at the same time or etc) This is more like an "instance". where you have to co-ordinate with your party how your going to get things done in the shortest amount of time. Perhaps 2 people can go west, 2 ppl go east and they can regroup and go south back to north.
I am sure getting to the main boss in inferno will be extremely difficult especially without spam teleportation and the ability of monsters being able to freeze you, stun you, root you and all this time,, they have much faster run speed than you so you can't out run them.
Have they stated that Skeleton King is intentionally designed in Diablo III to drop 1 rare on the first kill?
Here's my thought process... Yes, I know that he is currently dropping one rare item every FIRST KILL, but remember this is BETA. It is created for BETA purposes.
Example: perhaps they did this intentionally as an incentive for people to create and play through ALL of the classes to test them out to find bugs and also share them via stream instead of doing item runs on the same character all beta...
Two words: Loot Goblins (Loot Bandits?). I've noticed in a few streams and videos that these little buggers appear inside dungeons in what is a seemingly random fashion. Once you start hitting them, they spew gold all over the floor, and if you manage to kill it before it runs away (not very hard to do, at least in normal difficulty it seems) it will drop quite a lot of useful loot. In the few times I saw these things go down, they dropped ~2 blue items, page of training, scroll of companion, and a few other white items.
What's up to speculation is if these things have the potential to drop the best loot in Inferno difficulty, like bosses can. If they can drop rare items, that is at least salvageable loot for crafting materials, which I'm sure you're going to want a lot of.
After people get strategies going, killing the last boss won't be too hard and will be farmed for items.
Yes this is very similar to what I'm trying to express in the first part of my post. There's one drawback to boss runs, however, which is that currently in the beta you have 100% chance to get a rare item on your first kill of Skeleton King, but every subsequent kill has a very low chance of dropping a rare.
Exactly what came to my mind when I saw the Loot Goblins in the new beta videos
Exactly, people will quickly realize this when Diablo drops a couple blues for them on subsequent kills (just an example of loot, don't shoot me.)
So if you want X loot you wil want to farm act 1 ETC .
The goblin or w/e it's name is already in the game so it will randomly spawn through out the game (thus encourage you to hunt every corner of the map) and this comes with the rare and unique bosses.
The runs are inevitable and people will discover what monster drops what often than the others. Discovering these stuff is part of diablo's game play.
edit: deleted my first sentence, after noticing the thread topic name.
A loot table is your percent chance per roll to drop each item. So while I wouldn't be surprised if it inferno most mobs had very similar loot tables, the real difference is in what could be referred to as your 'treasure type'... which is the number of rolls the game gets to make when you kill x monster.
So say all monsters in Inferno have an equal % chance to drop x item - which has been mostly confirmed. Monster a will have 1 roll, while unique monster y will have 3 rolls, and ultra-boss q will have 15 rolls. So ultra-boss q will still give you an overall better chance despite having the same loot table.
Blizzard isn't going to make bosses in inferno have a chance to drop nothing like regular monsters, that'd just be silly. So they'll set a minimum number of items that are possible to drop, and then give x number of rolls with a chance to generate additional items....
but whether it'll be worth more to kill a boss depends on the time investment really.
if in one hour, you could do Four Boss X runs, or
Do one full Act X run. (which means only one boss kill instead of 4)
Both would end up with the same overall chance to drop an item. They want you to be able to choose what and where to play. They figure if its always equal, then you can pick what feels the most fun to you that do, and not what "works best"
This works out, as even though each mob has a very small chance to drop item X, the amount you kill in that one hour, will end up dropping the same amount of items as the three boss runs you missed out on by doing the act run instead of he boss run.
so in the end, same loot total.
Unlikely, example, this doesn't explain why Skeleton King drops a rare every kill (I've seen 4 videos, 4/4). Whereas normal mobs clearly don't. Similarly, other quest monsters and gold/rare mobs also don't have such a guaranteed drop.
..... I dont know if serious...
we are talking about inferno [in which what I said was pretty much confirmed], not normal. (Also skeleton king does not drop a are every kill, only first kill)
He said they drop the same items, not the same chance to drop, obviously a boss is going to have a slightly higher chance. The meaning of this is you can farm (presumably) X amount of non boss monsters for 1 hour, and get the same chance at loot as if you tried to farm 1 boss for an hour (however many times you can get to him / kill him). It gives you an option of 'I don't have time to run through a boss (because you won't be able to just tele to a boss in 30 secs now) so instead i'll spend the 10 minutes I have before work clearing fallen around act 1'.
This allows the user to clear 90% of the dungeon as each sub bosses are spread around the map, could be east west south. And since bypassing mob is going to be extremely hard in inferno difficulty, we have no choice but to kill majority of them to avoid facing death.
repeat this for each other sides and then head towards main boss.
Even if you had a main tanker running through the mob, you still eventually have to clear all mobs since they will follow you till wherever you go. This is perfectly fine, which is called "mobbing" a great way to kill group of monsters using aoe.
But the incentive is there, if you want to get the best drop, then clear 3 sub bosses or however there many be.
Which sort of restricts the number of ppl killing the "main" boss drastically. hence reducing the number of epic lewt in game.
this system exists in many other rpg games already and works great to keep players engage in party, trying to work within a certain time.
(strategy can come in.. such as 2, 2 split trying to kill 2 sub boss at the same time or etc) This is more like an "instance". where you have to co-ordinate with your party how your going to get things done in the shortest amount of time. Perhaps 2 people can go west, 2 ppl go east and they can regroup and go south back to north.
I am sure getting to the main boss in inferno will be extremely difficult especially without spam teleportation and the ability of monsters being able to freeze you, stun you, root you and all this time,, they have much faster run speed than you so you can't out run them.
Here's my thought process... Yes, I know that he is currently dropping one rare item every FIRST KILL, but remember this is BETA. It is created for BETA purposes.
Example: perhaps they did this intentionally as an incentive for people to create and play through ALL of the classes to test them out to find bugs and also share them via stream instead of doing item runs on the same character all beta...
We given the option to redo quests in beta, not sure if this will be carried onto release.