And it is your "ego" that is saying that no matter what you do, you want to never be punished for making a mistake in a video game, ever.
That you should just zip through without dying, and if you do die, it shouldn't really matter.
That there should be no way for you to screw up.
It is a very entitled mindset you have, I am not sure you really want to play a game so much as watch a movie unfold before you at the pace of your mouse-clicks.
In games there are rules, and you can lose, you can make mistakes.
Excuse me but I am not entitled. I fully expect to get my behind handled to me in Hell mode and definitely in Inferno. I like challenging games as much as anyone else.
VIABLE BUILDS does not been god mode. It means with the right equipment and gameplay experience you can complete the game even if you have to die a few times or a lot of times, changing your tactics and approach.
I expect the enemies and their AI to be challenging, not some ridiculous trumped up restrictions designed to penalize people for their playstyle and feed some egos. You expect to find this awesome build that will deal with every single situation and triumph over everyone else, like the hammerdin did in D2. Let's discuss this God Build that you intend to unearth, talk about entitled.
Additionally, you brought up the concept of a DM. Do you think a DM's job is to cause a total party kill (TPK)? If so that explains a lot. A DM's job is to create memorable stories for both himself and his players. That does not mean TPK's are ruled out, if a level 1 party sees an Ancient Red Great Wyrm attacking villages and wants to be heroic and rush into battle, then I think TPK is completely justified. But that's not memorable for anyone except the DM who expects at least one party death per combat. In fact its the hallmark of a lazy, inexperienced and unimaginative DM. Which is just how I feel about putting artificial restrictions on skills in D3.
I would like to see him play a Rogue-like or the "old" Wizardry games, then he'll know what hard really is, which unless you play a hardcore char, Diablo doesn't even come close to the difficulty of actual hard games to begin with.
I did play Wizardry and the Bard's Tale series, and I enjoyed them very much. There is progressing is such games and I love RPG's. I completed all the Bard Tales and the early Wizardry (1-3), but didn't care for the later titles.
I do not however like Rogue-like gameplay. I find it very dumb to play a game that if you die you start back at level 0 with no items. But Rogue-like games delight in causing surprise and spike damage all so some folks can bellow out I reached level 100 on my 985th playthrough. Again EGO. the gameplay usually isn't fun and the whole game is built around killing the player (more so than diablo).
PS. I do intend to do hardcode, will I reach lvl 60 on a character? Maybe. But I see absolutely no point in doing inferno on hardcode. I would prefer to login on my character occasionally and have something to show for my hundreds of hours of play rather than just a tombstone.
They could've easily balanced skill trees, and point use if they made each skill only require 1 point(It's only when skills can be upgraded through puting more points into it, that it becomes hard to balance skills, in the skill trees. If only equipment/stats can make skills more powerful, there's no problem).
And by this statement, you don't get it. All the class skills in D3 are in 1 skill tree instead of creating 3 separate skill trees with lots of filler abilities. Go check the previous incarnations of the class skills. They essentially cherry picked all the skills people would naturally grvitate towards and removed the ones people were not so hot on and made some of those passives.
They have instead opted at great time & expense to introduce runes into the game for build creation, even giving every single rune skill a different animation and you're referring back to skill trees?
I doubt you have played the early Wizardry games, based on the reason you say you don't like rogue-likes, because if a char dies more then 2-3 times in the entire game, there's an insanely high chance they will perma die(get deleted from the game, forcing you to make a brand new char).
No you don't get it, "there Isn't a skill tree at all" , a skill tree implies choices must be made. By the time a char hits lv 60 in D3, they have every possible skill. There are many console RPGs, that have more customization then D3, to give you an idea how badly this game is lacking on the char creation side of things.
You still don't get it, all they had to do, was not purposely add useless skills in the first place, and it would've been fine.
The rune system is a cop-out, and you know it. They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Also before you spout some stupid crap about how many options these 4 runes per skill would give, we would have trillions more, if we had skill trees(properly balanced), and the ability to allocate stats.
Oh to make matters worse, those numbnuts seem to think we shouldn't even beable to choose what rune we put into X skill(they are actually entertaining the idea, that you can't tell what X rune is, until "after" It's bound to a skill).
It's the differance between a Great game, and just a Good game. D3 would've almost certainly been godly if it had all 3 systems in place(stat allocation, skill trees, and the rune system, but allow us to choose what skill to socket x rune in), but alas, D3 only has the rune system(hopefully we'll atleast beable to choose what skill we put X rune into, but I lost alot of faith in the developers for even suggesting this no good aspect unnatuned rune system. How could they even suggest such a horrendously designed system).
I doubt you have played the early Wizardry games, based on the reason you say you don't like rogue-likes, because if a char dies more then 2-3 times in the entire game, there's an insanely high chance they will perma die(get deleted from the game, forcing you to make a brand new char).
No you don't get it, "there Isn't a skill tree at all" , a skill tree implies choices must be made. By the time a char hits lv 60 in D3, they have every possible skill. There are many console RPGs, that have more customization then D3, to give you an idea how badly this game is lacking on the char creation side of things.
You still don't get it, all they had to do, was not purposely add useless skills in the first place, and it would've been fine.
The rune system is a cop-out, and you know it. They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Also before you spout some stupid crap about how many options these 4 runes per skill would give, we would have trillions more, if we had skill trees(properly balanced), and the ability to allocate stats.
Oh to make matters worse, those numbnuts seem to think we shouldn't even beable to choose what rune we put into X skill(they are actually entertaining the idea, that you can't tell what X rune is, until "after" It's bound to a skill).
Doubt all you want if it makes you feel better.
From a game design perspective its pretty hard to design 3 skill trees with no useless skills, and where the lower level skills are not tossed aside once you get access to higher level skills. Please name me one game that does this well, I'll happily try it out. D2 got away with synergies, and if IRC synergies did not ship with the original D2.
I find it appaling that you think one of the best introductions to the game is a cop-out. We (well I am at least) are always on the look out for new things, additions good or bad to the old formula to keep things fresh.
You basically want D2 with better graphics and resolution, more or less the same skills probably retooled and the ability to allocate stats which will probably all go to life if you reach hell mode. You know what? That's fine. I know that I would have been satisfied with such a game, and that is exactly what many other developers would have done. But Blizzard is not afraid of changing what they feel does not work, I love the new rune system, its something no one has tried before and since I haven't even tried it out I'm more than willing to embrace it. Will I be singing the same tune after my infinite run in Hell/inferno mode, perhaps, perhaps not. It is a new system, and needs time to prove itself. you're basing all this hate on a system you haven't even played. Theory and reality are very different, and I presume you know this because i'm assuming you're at least in your mid 30's given that you played rpg's like Wizardy. If you think you know exactly how this system will work out both in the short and long term without even playing the game.... I can only call you an very immature and childish middle age person.
I won't say that there are trillions of builds. We all know at least 1/2 of them will be useless. But if you cannot agree that there are at least double the amount of viable builds compared with D2, then we have absolutely nothing to talk about. We are on such different wavelengths its not even worth talking.
I cannot defend the unattuned rune situation because... I'm a little conflicted. I like it in concept, the thrill of finding your first rune and ... shit its not the one I wanted. I need to play around with it before I can commit one way of another. I know it will be frustrating at higher levels, but I think the AH will sort that out. And I understand that it is an artifical method of extending the game which I'm not too thrilled with BUT if it allows Blizzard to generate revenue (via AH) and release a constant stream of patchs (once every 2-3 months?) before the expansion, I'm ok with it. I really don't want a D2 patch system where we had to wait literally years for any patches or even information on patches.
Originally I thought you should be restricted to how often you could change it, by having a small cooldown. But when I thought about it I realize it doesn't really matter. I (like many others) will probably have a favorite setup of skills with just one or two skills being changed every now and then, and I will make that setup work for close to everything rather than go through the hassle of swapping between skills in the midst of combat. I'd bet the same goes for my friends whom I will be playing with.
I guess the only problem with having no restrictions is that people will probably end up macro'ing shit so they can pretty much use any spell they want whenever they want, very easily.
So maybe a short cooldown wouldn't be that bad. And by short I mean everything between 30sec to 2min.
I feel the exact same way. Its way too much hassle to constantly switch skills all the time. I'll tend to stick with a set of skills and change only if any 'build' sounds potentially more fun.
I've not given much thought to macro'ing. I don't do it so I don't usually consider it. I think I'm ok with it as long as its not botting. If you actually play the game and macro stuff, well... does it really affect me? I need more thought into this but off hand I don't see a downside to my enjoyment of the game.
I doubt you have played the early Wizardry games, based on the reason you say you don't like rogue-likes, because if a char dies more then 2-3 times in the entire game, there's an insanely high chance they will perma die(get deleted from the game, forcing you to make a brand new char).
No you don't get it, "there Isn't a skill tree at all" , a skill tree implies choices must be made. By the time a char hits lv 60 in D3, they have every possible skill. There are many console RPGs, that have more customization then D3, to give you an idea how badly this game is lacking on the char creation side of things.
You still don't get it, all they had to do, was not purposely add useless skills in the first place, and it would've been fine.
The rune system is a cop-out, and you know it. They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Also before you spout some stupid crap about how many options these 4 runes per skill would give, we would have trillions more, if we had skill trees(properly balanced), and the ability to allocate stats.
Oh to make matters worse, those numbnuts seem to think we shouldn't even beable to choose what rune we put into X skill(they are actually entertaining the idea, that you can't tell what X rune is, until "after" It's bound to a skill).
Doubt all you want if it makes you feel better.
From a game design perspective its pretty hard to design 3 skill trees with no useless skills, and where the lower level skills are not tossed aside once you get access to higher level skills. Please name me one game that does this well, I'll happily try it out. D2 got away with synergies, and if IRC synergies did not ship with the original D2.
I find it appaling that you think one of the best introductions to the game is a cop-out. We (well I am at least) are always on the look out for new things, additions good or bad to the old formula to keep things fresh.
You basically want D2 with better graphics and resolution, more or less the same skills probably retooled and the ability to allocate stats which will probably all go to life if you reach hell mode. You know what? That's fine. I know that I would have been satisfied with such a game, and that is exactly what many other developers would have done. But Blizzard is not afraid of changing what they feel does not work, I love the new rune system, its something no one has tried before and since I haven't even tried it out I'm more than willing to embrace it. Will I be singing the same tune after my infinite run in Hell/inferno mode, perhaps, perhaps not. It is a new system, and needs time to prove itself. you're basing all this hate on a system you haven't even played. Theory and reality are very different, and I presume you know this because i'm assuming you're at least in your mid 30's given that you played rpg's like Wizardy. If you think you know exactly how this system will work out both in the short and long term without even playing the game.... I can only call you an very immature and childish middle age person.
I won't say that there are trillions of builds. We all know at least 1/2 of them will be useless. But if you cannot agree that there are at least double the amount of viable builds compared with D2, then we have absolutely nothing to talk about. We are on such different wavelengths its not even worth talking.
I cannot defend the unattuned rune situation because... I'm a little conflicted. I like it in concept, the thrill of finding your first rune and ... shit its not the one I wanted. I need to play around with it before I can commit one way of another. I know it will be frustrating at higher levels, but I think the AH will sort that out. And I understand that it is an artifical method of extending the game which I'm not too thrilled with BUT if it allows Blizzard to generate revenue (via AH) and release a constant stream of patchs (once every 2-3 months?) before the expansion, I'm ok with it. I really don't want a D2 patch system where we had to wait literally years for any patches or even information on patches.
It is a cop-out when they remove multiple other equally good systems(D3 has lost more then it has gained).
No, where are you pulling this **** from, I want improved versions of D2's main systems, with the good D3 systems as well(aka the rune system, just not the latest version of it, the crating systems, random dungeon, bosses, quests, even, ext), and ofcourse bigger maps(I really hope maps get much more exapansive after act1).
My post was pretty damn clear, and I didn't even once mentioned graphics(which I don't give a **** about, graphics Isn't a gameplay aspect anyway), so you really need to start reading what people write, if you want to debate stuff.
No It's actually fairly easy, this current system(even though It's not a skill tree, because It's still alot of skills, just useful in different ways) proves atleast that much. It's when skills have multiple lv that require throwing point into them, while other skills can't be upgraded as high as these the other skills.
I never said D2 didn't have issues, but you shouldn't throw out core systems just because the implimentation of said systems were sloppy in past games), you should improve on them, and even tweak the system its self, but not completely remove major gameplay features from the game.
They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Indeed. Stat allocation wasn't a very good game mechanic in D2, but only because the trade-offs between each stat weren't really meaningful (how many times have you read "enough STR/DEX for gear, 0 ENR, rest in VIT"?). They actually fixed the problem in D3 with 4 stats that are all meaningful and could provide character differentiation and interesting trade-offs, but then also decided to switch to static stat allocations. (They could have even gone with a hybrid approach with something like limiting us to putting only 2-3 points into any given stat per level to encourage more balance without removing all customization).
The current freely-swappable skill system is just another example of removing customization options from the game (this is the same sort of "simplification"/"dumbing-down" that is driving people away from WoW). Gear also seems a lot more homogenized in D3 compared to what it was in D2. In D2 specific items and stats were an integral part of most builds, but in D3 rare items will be the most powerful items in the game (so no real way to plan out a gear setup) and most of the stats seem applicable to any playstyle a given class might choose.
Runes are currently the only thing that really allows character customization. Without them, every Wizard in D3 would have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses as every other Wizard.
I won't say that there are trillions of builds. We all know at least 1/2 of them will be useless. But if you cannot agree that there are at least double the amount of viable builds compared with D2, then we have absolutely nothing to talk about. We are on such different wavelengths its not even worth talking.
Since a "build" currently is really just the runes you have socketed in each skill then I guess technically there are something like 5^20+ "builds" with nearly all of them probably being "viable". This is certainly way more than the number of viable builds in D2. However, the more important question is: how many of these rune combinations actually make the class feel different to play?
As Zoltar said, D3 would be amazing with stat, skill, rune, and gear customization. With just runes it will still be fun. Patches/expansions will likely add things like runewords and the talisman and other things we might not have even thought of yet. But that doesn't mean that the game would be even better if you had to make a meaningful decision when choosing skills, or could customize your stats now that they could actually matter.
I can't wait to play D3 no matter how it ships, but I would love the game to be even better than it currently is.
Ah, the old "new is automatically good" argument. Hadn't seen it in a while...thank God.
I never said new is automatically good. But trying out new things is good. Even if it fails its something learnt. It is a major reason why Japanese game development is on the decline. Cos everyone uses the same old formula, no change no experimentation. But then again that seems to be what you're implying, you hate change, any change.
Remind me to send you this Nigerian Prince idea I saw a while ago. Since you haven't tried it, I hope you embrace it.
What the heck is your problem? So just because you don't like the rune system eveyone has to hate it? Only your opinion counts? I do like the new rune system. I like that a spell like magic missile can now have different flavors, to be multiple missiles, to be a single large damage missile, to act like guided arrow.
Now THAT is a boatload of horse manure if I ever saw one. Over the years I've seen plenty of games that had regular enough updates without a ridiculous thing like what we're seeing with the AH.
Finally, the only statement you made with any merit. Specific examples if you please, try keeping the games in the same general games catagory if possible. The developer of Titan's Quest did exactly as you have mentioned, where are they now? Oh yes they went out of business.
The level of support/patch/content we got from Diablo 2 after release was terible. I'm not just talking about mere patches. I would like to see contant new items added, or new whatever added. Perhaps even rework systems that don't work once its been tested. Perhaps that's too optimistic, perhaps I am viewing it like an MMO in terms of wanting contant new content for the game. [For the record. I am strongly against Diablo as an MMO and especially of monthly payments].
As Zoltar said, D3 would be amazing with stat, skill, rune, and gear customization. With just runes it will still be fun. Patches/expansions will likely add things like runewords and the talisman and other things we might not have even thought of yet. But that doesn't mean that the game would be even better if you had to make a meaningful decision when choosing skills, or could customize your stats now that they could actually matter.
I can't wait to play D3 no matter how it ships, but I would love the game to be even better than it currently is.
Thank you chippydip for posting as someone actually interested in discussion. The maka's of world seem only intent on making snide remarks.
I do actually agree with stat distribution. I play way too much RPG to not want/miss it. But the D2 implementation was terrible and I've not heard of another method that will work, especially if we want items to add to that stat. Neutral on skill points addition, again it would need to be totally reworked, but anything that allows synergies as in D2 is a complete fail in my book.
Eg. All equipment left behind, or loss of XP etc. I'm sorry but if that is your stance, I find that my impressions of your need to "pay a price" is completely based of your ego.
And it is your "ego" that is saying that no matter what you do, you want to never be punished for making a mistake in a video game, ever.
That you should just zip through without dying, and if you do die, it shouldn't really matter.
That there should be no way for you to screw up.
It is a very entitled mindset you have, I am not sure you really want to play a game so much as watch a movie unfold before you at the pace of your mouse-clicks.
In games there are rules, and you can lose, you can make mistakes.
You want invincibility mode, probably because games were too hard for you growing up and your elder brother put the cheats in for ya.
Well I am your older brother, I am the dungeon master, and I have to tell you that you need rules and the possibility of failure to make a game interesting.
We already have people in the beta complaining about the difficulty of some mobs because they explode when they die, and if you don't move away in time you will die as well.
This isn't Dora the Explorer for the PC, it is Diablo 3.
You should be fallible.
You should read my "Diablo Item Realization" thread, because you obviously have that prevalent socially backward mindset. Although this time its dealing with specs, and skill swapping rather than items.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
It is a cop-out when they remove multiple other equally good systems(D3 has lost more then it has gained).
No, where are you pulling this **** from, I want improved versions of D2's main systems, with the good D3 systems as well(aka the rune system, just not the latest version of it, the crating systems, random dungeon, bosses, quests, even, ext), and ofcourse bigger maps(I really hope maps get much more exapansive after act1).
Now it makes sense.
Now we are getting to the heart of the matter, you are all butthurt, and dont like the new systems.
You seem to want Diablo2 the second coming, rather than Diablo 3.
So now you want to ensure everyone is as miserable as you with the new system.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I've seen this thread a million times and have not responded. However - I'm in a bad mood, so sorry for those who read my reponse now.
I voted no. Its fine. There is NO NEED to penalize/punish/make another ridiculous step that we have to go through to play the game.
This system gives you ENORMOUS freedom to play this game to the fullest. Its like a waiter walking up to you and saying "welcome to the Every Food in the World Restaruant - what may I get you to eat?" and your lame ass response of "Wait a minute - I think that's unfair and unbalanced, I'm bothered by having every choice at my finger tips - it just doesn't feel like eating at a restaurant unless I can be limited by three or four crappy choices. I want my eating experience to be vague and boring."
Don't be stupid - enjoy the game they are giving you. Whenever the F&*% it comes out.
I doubt you have played the early Wizardry games, based on the reason you say you don't like rogue-likes, because if a char dies more then 2-3 times in the entire game, there's an insanely high chance they will perma die(get deleted from the game, forcing you to make a brand new char).
No you don't get it, "there Isn't a skill tree at all" , a skill tree implies choices must be made. By the time a char hits lv 60 in D3, they have every possible skill. There are many console RPGs, that have more customization then D3, to give you an idea how badly this game is lacking on the char creation side of things.
You still don't get it, all they had to do, was not purposely add useless skills in the first place, and it would've been fine.
The rune system is a cop-out, and you know it. They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Also before you spout some stupid crap about how many options these 4 runes per skill would give, we would have trillions more, if we had skill trees(properly balanced), and the ability to allocate stats.
Oh to make matters worse, those numbnuts seem to think we shouldn't even beable to choose what rune we put into X skill(they are actually entertaining the idea, that you can't tell what X rune is, until "after" It's bound to a skill).
Doubt all you want if it makes you feel better.
From a game design perspective its pretty hard to design 3 skill trees with no useless skills, and where the lower level skills are not tossed aside once you get access to higher level skills. Please name me one game that does this well, I'll happily try it out. D2 got away with synergies, and if IRC synergies did not ship with the original D2.
I find it appaling that you think one of the best introductions to the game is a cop-out. We (well I am at least) are always on the look out for new things, additions good or bad to the old formula to keep things fresh.
You basically want D2 with better graphics and resolution, more or less the same skills probably retooled and the ability to allocate stats which will probably all go to life if you reach hell mode. You know what? That's fine. I know that I would have been satisfied with such a game, and that is exactly what many other developers would have done. But Blizzard is not afraid of changing what they feel does not work, I love the new rune system, its something no one has tried before and since I haven't even tried it out I'm more than willing to embrace it. Will I be singing the same tune after my infinite run in Hell/inferno mode, perhaps, perhaps not. It is a new system, and needs time to prove itself. you're basing all this hate on a system you haven't even played. Theory and reality are very different, and I presume you know this because i'm assuming you're at least in your mid 30's given that you played rpg's like Wizardy. If you think you know exactly how this system will work out both in the short and long term without even playing the game.... I can only call you an very immature and childish middle age person.
I won't say that there are trillions of builds. We all know at least 1/2 of them will be useless. But if you cannot agree that there are at least double the amount of viable builds compared with D2, then we have absolutely nothing to talk about. We are on such different wavelengths its not even worth talking.
I cannot defend the unattuned rune situation because... I'm a little conflicted. I like it in concept, the thrill of finding your first rune and ... shit its not the one I wanted. I need to play around with it before I can commit one way of another. I know it will be frustrating at higher levels, but I think the AH will sort that out. And I understand that it is an artifical method of extending the game which I'm not too thrilled with BUT if it allows Blizzard to generate revenue (via AH) and release a constant stream of patchs (once every 2-3 months?) before the expansion, I'm ok with it. I really don't want a D2 patch system where we had to wait literally years for any patches or even information on patches.
It is a cop-out when they remove multiple other equally good systems(D3 has lost more then it has gained).
No, where are you pulling this **** from, I want improved versions of D2's main systems, with the good D3 systems as well(aka the rune system, just not the latest version of it, the crating systems, random dungeon, bosses, quests, even, ext), and ofcourse bigger maps(I really hope maps get much more exapansive after act1).
Now it makes sense.
Now we are getting to the heart of the matter, you are all butthurt and dont like the new systems.
You want Diablo2 the second coming, rather than Diablo 3.
So you want to ensure, everyone is as miserable as you with the new system.
Don't over think it, Diablo is about improving on the older systems, while adding some new systems(lol that's the whole ******* idea behind having a series/making sequels).
If they want to start fresh(which at this point, the only thing left in common with D2, is the item drop system, and some char/story ref), then they should make a completely different game, and don't name it Diablo 3.
When all is said and done, this game will play like a Diablo clone(a very differen't Diablo clone), and not feel anything like an actual Diablo game.
hell they even changed a very standard potion system, to this wierd(this system Isn't specifically bad by any means, but It's not good either, as it does subtract "a little" from certain aspects) keep the action going blood orb system, which further puts it apart from what people would think of when you say Diablo.
Yea, sorry but It's pretty clear this Isn't a Diablo game(no stat allocation, no skill tree, some wierd blood orb system instead of a potion system, being told that towns are basically meaningless now, exc), but a odd Diablo clone, that just happens to be called Diablo3.
Don't get me wrong I like Diablo clones, and in no way am I saying this "will" (well it might if they put the broken version of the rune system in, damnit, we have a right to identify items before using it)be a bad game(I'm looking foward to it like the rest here), but you're kidden your self to think this deserves to be called a Diablo game(every diablo type system but the item drop system, has been removed from the game for crying out loud).
PS. Incase for some reason you don't know(lol new to gaming perhaps), in any case, customization is a good thing.
Don't over think it, Diablo is about improving on the older systems, while adding some new systems(lol that's the whole ******* idea behind having a series/making sequels).
If they want to start fresh(which at this point, the only thing left in common with D2, is the item drop system, and some char/story ref), then they should make a completely different game, and don't name it Diablo 3.
When all is said and done, this game will play like a Diablo clone(a very differen't Diablo clone), and not feel anything like an actual Diablo game.
hell they even changed a very standard potion system, to this wierd(this system Isn't specifically bad by any means, but It's not good either, as it does subtract "a little" from certain aspects) keep the action going blood orb system, which further puts it apart from what people would think of when you say Diablo.
Yea, sorry but It's pretty clear this Isn't a Diablo game(no stat allocation, no skill tree, some wierd blood orb system instead of a potion system, being told that towns are basically meaningless now, exc), but a odd Diablo clone, that just happens to be called Diablo3.
Don't get me wrong I like Diablo clones, and in no way am I saying this "will" (well it might if they put the broken version of the rune system in, damnit, we have a right to identify items before using it)be a bad game(I'm looking foward to it like the rest here), but you're kidden your self to think this deserves to be called a Diablo game(every diablo type system but the item drop system, has been removed from the game for crying out loud).
PS. Incase for some reason you don't know it(lol new to gaming perhaps), in any case, customization is a good thing.
First off, Zoltor, please please please edit your quotes so its not so darn long. (Sorry pet peeve).
Well... this is another whole tangent that I hope not to go down but... the essense of the game is diablo. However, if you look at a few of the more popular franchises...
Ultima 1-8
There was story continuitiy among all the games but in terms of actual gameplay and mechanics, quite different especially from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7. But there is no doubt it was ultima. (I refuse to admit U9 as part of the ultima series. In my parallel universe it never existed).
Elderscrolls Series.
If you look at the evolution of the series, the first few elderscrolls has almost nothing in common with the current generation of elderscrolls. And while Morrorwind/Oblivion/Skyrim are all open world RPG's, they also rebuilt engines and while still an open world RPG are quite different in mechanics, and even in atmosphere.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and there is no wrong or right answer to this. I can only speak for myself when I say that Diablo 3 is THE MOST diablo like game/clone that I have ever had the pleasure to watch (Sadly not in the beta...yet).
No other ARPG has even come close to matching D3 in feeling like Diablo, and it has been a long time (probably since Dragon Age Origins) was released that I've felt this level of excietment for a game.
No other ARPG has even come close to matching D3 in feeling like Diablo, and it has been a long time (probably since Dragon Age Origins) was released that I've felt this level of excietment for a game.
Yup, I agree. Blizzard is so good because they don't just make Diablo 2 clones, they push the envelop and change the genre standards. Other franchises, can only follow in the coat tails of Blizzard Entertainment and create clones of their games.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
To emyln: Hey don't look at me, you brought it up with that dumb statement" what you want is D2, not D3" or something along those lines. You are very wrong about one thing, I dare you to play Fate, and tell me that Isn't very much like diablo(even with extra feature, It's more Diablo-like then Diablo 3 will ever be).
Lol yea and look how crappy those games ended up becoming, I don't think we should follow other companies poor examples.
For example: If Blizzard continues along this line of thought, the next Diablo game "will" be like FF 13
I'm sorry, but I feel there is more to a Diablo game then hacking monsters, and having Dark music, setting/mood.
You know? I've heard about Fate but never picked it up. I also enjoyed the Mythos beta which is where Fate's developer ended up creating. Too bad it was never released.
I might just do that! Hehehe after all I'm looking for an ARPG game to suck me in while waiting for D3. If you know where I could purchase it online let me know, the only place I think it can be bought now is amazon.
You should read my "Diablo Item Realization" thread, because you obviously have that prevalent socially backward mindset. Although this time its dealing with specs, and skill swapping rather than items.
Because progress = less customization, no rules, baby's first vidya game?
Don't let junior make a half-orc mage, force him to be a gnome, he will be happier that way pew pew pew.
What? Halfway through the dungeon he wants to be a barbarian now? Well let him be a barbarian, yAAAAArrr!
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There is no way that Diablo 3 is going to leave the gates with players having access to all their classes' spells, so I am not sure why people are even suggesting that it was the intention of the designers that players would swap out spells to progress through content.
They wanted players to be able to experiment, not exploit.
I think a gold cost, with or without a visit to town, fixes the problem - pay to play.
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I think Monk mantras need to be fixed, either they need to stack even when they are the same mantra, or they need to all be one spell (with perhaps the runes changing which aura you have).
Making players go through the UI interface to swap out skills is not a good solution for a problem that shouldn't have been created in the first place.
Exactly, I don't know where people are pulling the "it was meant to be played this way"(It not only is clear that you aren't meant to have access to all your skills on the fly, otherwise you wouldn't have been limited to only 6 active skills, but they also downright specifically said you aren't meant to have access to all your skills as well).
You know? I've heard about Fate but never picked it up. I also enjoyed the Mythos beta which is where Fate's developer ended up creating. Too bad it was never released.
I might just do that! Hehehe after all I'm looking for an ARPG game to suck me in while waiting for D3. If you know where I could purchase it online let me know, the only place I think it can be bought now is amazon.
Yea, go to Amazon.com, they will will have it in stock. It only costs 20$, and if you buy the latest expansion (aka Fate: The Traitor Soul) it comes with the first two parts for free as well.
Note: There is an insane amount of content(itemwise, and questwise as well), and replay, well you could play forever if you wanted to, as the dungeon has over 2million floors(no joke).
The only real problem is, It's single player only(not even local multiplayer), but It's still awesome. It's the closest you can get to Diablo, without being Diablo.
You should read my "Diablo Item Realization" thread, because you obviously have that prevalent socially backward mindset. Although this time its dealing with specs, and skill swapping rather than items.
Because progress = less customization, no rules, baby's first vidya game?
Don't let junior make a half-orc mage, force him to be a gnome, he will be happier that way pew pew pew.
What? Halfway through the dungeon he wants to be a barbarian now? Well let him be a barbarian, yAAAAArrr!
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There is no way that Diablo 3 is going to leave the gates with players having access to all their classes' spells, so I am not sure why people are even suggesting that it was the intention of the designers that players would swap out spells to progress through content.
They wanted players to be able to experiment, not exploit.
I think a gold cost, with or without a visit to town, fixes the problem - pay to play.
Are you high?
Because nothing you said made any sense at all. You clearly are not living on the planet Earth.
Less Customization?!?
A Few Billion builds >>>>> A couple Cookie cutter builds.
I promise you D3 will allow players to switch skills, and the worst case scenario is we will always have to goto town.(not likely either btw)
Changing skills is an exploit lol.
Changing tactics is what any logical person does, especially in a situation where it appears you would lose.
If we go by your logic, we should pick the dumbest person in the armed forces and make him a general.
Exactly, I don't know where people are pulling the "it was meant to be played this way"(It not only is clear that you aren't meant to have access to all your skills on the fly, otherwise you wouldn't have been limited to only 6 active skills, but they also downright specifically said you aren't meant to have access to all your skills as well)
Half orc mages suddenly become barbarians or some BS.
You mean that actually made sense to you?
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Half orc mages suddenly become barbarians or some BS.
You mean that actually made sense to you?
Sorry if it was a bit too geekspeak,
But (AD&D) Halforcs have a lower intellect, so they can't cast spells as well as other playable races.
So in games like World of Warcraft, to keep people from making a Halforc Mage, they make starting stats not really important, so it doesn't matter what race you are, you can excel at any of the classes your race has available to choose from.
So Blizzard striped the ability of someone playing a tough stupid mage, because there is an offset chance that someone who doesn't know any better would make one and think it sucks, and anyone smart would go online and figure it out by reading a guide, and just not make one anyway.
Moving onto Diablo 3
You have a mage in the party, but halfway through they decide they don't want to be a mage anymore, so they swap out glass cannon and their abilities so they can change from being a high dps / low defense ranged class, to being a rough-and-tumble melee like class that stands in the fray of the monsters and can take a beating.
These are the sorts of things you don't expect in an RPG, because in an RPG character development is supposed to mean something.
You are supposed to make a choice, and it is the choices that you make that determine your character.
Having a fault, or a limitation, is a good thing.
Having to decide how to divide up your stat points in Fallout is a good thing.
Yep completely agree, I think Blizzard as well as some gamers, forgot that such game were suppose to be RPGs. Blizzard is acting like Diablo is only about the action, with the occassional item drop, while some fans seem to think It's just a good stress releaver, which is more or less the same thing sigh(aka me bash monster, me pickup shiny thing, and literally nothing past that. I really love shinies myself, but there a little bit more then that, when it comes to RPGs).
Hm I don't know how to break it to people, but Diablo is "suppose" to resemble something like a RPG, and RP(aka Role Playing), implies that char development is a major aspect of such, just saying.
There is no way that Diablo 3 is going to leave the gates with players having access to all their classes' spells, so I am not sure why people are even suggesting that it was the intention of the designers that players would swap out spells to progress through content.
The current design is clearly not what was originally intended when they implemented this system, but I'm not sure I share your optimism that they will definitely decide to tweak the system in some way before launch.
Lots of people don't seem to want to have to pick a spec for their characters and just want to stick with the current system. I think if given only the option of the current system or a short cooldown or just having to go to town (basically no detriment other than a small amount of time) then I'd rather they just leave it how it is now. We don't need it to feel like swapping skills frequently is an intended mechanic that has been made more difficult for no apparent reason.
But I think they really should at least make a solid decision on if they want people to have easy access to all their skills or if they want the 6 skill slot limit to actually mean something. If its the former, then they should add support for additional hot-keys so you can use what you want without having to mess with skill swaps at all. If they want the latter, then they need to make skill swapping "difficult" enough that its not profitable to switch to a different setup when you need a special utility build or get to a boss, but not so difficult that you can't switch things up when you want to try out a new build for a few games or to match your skills to the party members you get matched with.
Less Customization?!?
A Few Billion builds >>>>> A couple Cookie cutter builds.
If rune selection is the only mechanic for "builds" then we certainly will have a huge number of them, with almost all of them being viable choices, but how many of those builds are really different from the rest? How many of those choices will alter the way you play that class? And if this many options would be good, wouldn't even more be better if you actually had to choose just 6 skills as well?
People who don't want to think about skill selection still aren't going to think about it if they can swap skills on the fly vs if they have to pick 6 and stick with it. They will either just pick their 6 favorite skills from leveling, or they will lookup the cookie cutter builds online and go with whatever set of skills and runes that somebody told them was the best setup.
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I doubt you have played the early Wizardry games, based on the reason you say you don't like rogue-likes, because if a char dies more then 2-3 times in the entire game, there's an insanely high chance they will perma die(get deleted from the game, forcing you to make a brand new char).
No you don't get it, "there Isn't a skill tree at all" , a skill tree implies choices must be made. By the time a char hits lv 60 in D3, they have every possible skill. There are many console RPGs, that have more customization then D3, to give you an idea how badly this game is lacking on the char creation side of things.
You still don't get it, all they had to do, was not purposely add useless skills in the first place, and it would've been fine.
The rune system is a cop-out, and you know it. They removed every ounce of customizeation from the game(lol they even simplified the stats, WTF do they think Diablo players are only 5 years old), they had to add something, otherwise what's the point of playing the game.
Also before you spout some stupid crap about how many options these 4 runes per skill would give, we would have trillions more, if we had skill trees(properly balanced), and the ability to allocate stats.
Oh to make matters worse, those numbnuts seem to think we shouldn't even beable to choose what rune we put into X skill(they are actually entertaining the idea, that you can't tell what X rune is, until "after" It's bound to a skill).
It's the differance between a Great game, and just a Good game. D3 would've almost certainly been godly if it had all 3 systems in place(stat allocation, skill trees, and the rune system, but allow us to choose what skill to socket x rune in), but alas, D3 only has the rune system(hopefully we'll atleast beable to choose what skill we put X rune into, but I lost alot of faith in the developers for even suggesting this no good aspect unnatuned rune system. How could they even suggest such a horrendously designed system).
Doubt all you want if it makes you feel better.
From a game design perspective its pretty hard to design 3 skill trees with no useless skills, and where the lower level skills are not tossed aside once you get access to higher level skills. Please name me one game that does this well, I'll happily try it out. D2 got away with synergies, and if IRC synergies did not ship with the original D2.
I find it appaling that you think one of the best introductions to the game is a cop-out. We (well I am at least) are always on the look out for new things, additions good or bad to the old formula to keep things fresh.
You basically want D2 with better graphics and resolution, more or less the same skills probably retooled and the ability to allocate stats which will probably all go to life if you reach hell mode. You know what? That's fine. I know that I would have been satisfied with such a game, and that is exactly what many other developers would have done. But Blizzard is not afraid of changing what they feel does not work, I love the new rune system, its something no one has tried before and since I haven't even tried it out I'm more than willing to embrace it. Will I be singing the same tune after my infinite run in Hell/inferno mode, perhaps, perhaps not. It is a new system, and needs time to prove itself. you're basing all this hate on a system you haven't even played. Theory and reality are very different, and I presume you know this because i'm assuming you're at least in your mid 30's given that you played rpg's like Wizardy. If you think you know exactly how this system will work out both in the short and long term without even playing the game.... I can only call you an very immature and childish middle age person.
I won't say that there are trillions of builds. We all know at least 1/2 of them will be useless. But if you cannot agree that there are at least double the amount of viable builds compared with D2, then we have absolutely nothing to talk about. We are on such different wavelengths its not even worth talking.
I cannot defend the unattuned rune situation because... I'm a little conflicted. I like it in concept, the thrill of finding your first rune and ... shit its not the one I wanted. I need to play around with it before I can commit one way of another. I know it will be frustrating at higher levels, but I think the AH will sort that out. And I understand that it is an artifical method of extending the game which I'm not too thrilled with BUT if it allows Blizzard to generate revenue (via AH) and release a constant stream of patchs (once every 2-3 months?) before the expansion, I'm ok with it. I really don't want a D2 patch system where we had to wait literally years for any patches or even information on patches.
I've not given much thought to macro'ing. I don't do it so I don't usually consider it. I think I'm ok with it as long as its not botting. If you actually play the game and macro stuff, well... does it really affect me? I need more thought into this but off hand I don't see a downside to my enjoyment of the game.
It is a cop-out when they remove multiple other equally good systems(D3 has lost more then it has gained).
No, where are you pulling this **** from, I want improved versions of D2's main systems, with the good D3 systems as well(aka the rune system, just not the latest version of it, the crating systems, random dungeon, bosses, quests, even, ext), and ofcourse bigger maps(I really hope maps get much more exapansive after act1).
My post was pretty damn clear, and I didn't even once mentioned graphics(which I don't give a **** about, graphics Isn't a gameplay aspect anyway), so you really need to start reading what people write, if you want to debate stuff.
No It's actually fairly easy, this current system(even though It's not a skill tree, because It's still alot of skills, just useful in different ways) proves atleast that much. It's when skills have multiple lv that require throwing point into them, while other skills can't be upgraded as high as these the other skills.
I never said D2 didn't have issues, but you shouldn't throw out core systems just because the implimentation of said systems were sloppy in past games), you should improve on them, and even tweak the system its self, but not completely remove major gameplay features from the game.
Indeed. Stat allocation wasn't a very good game mechanic in D2, but only because the trade-offs between each stat weren't really meaningful (how many times have you read "enough STR/DEX for gear, 0 ENR, rest in VIT"?). They actually fixed the problem in D3 with 4 stats that are all meaningful and could provide character differentiation and interesting trade-offs, but then also decided to switch to static stat allocations. (They could have even gone with a hybrid approach with something like limiting us to putting only 2-3 points into any given stat per level to encourage more balance without removing all customization).
The current freely-swappable skill system is just another example of removing customization options from the game (this is the same sort of "simplification"/"dumbing-down" that is driving people away from WoW). Gear also seems a lot more homogenized in D3 compared to what it was in D2. In D2 specific items and stats were an integral part of most builds, but in D3 rare items will be the most powerful items in the game (so no real way to plan out a gear setup) and most of the stats seem applicable to any playstyle a given class might choose.
Runes are currently the only thing that really allows character customization. Without them, every Wizard in D3 would have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses as every other Wizard.
Since a "build" currently is really just the runes you have socketed in each skill then I guess technically there are something like 5^20+ "builds" with nearly all of them probably being "viable". This is certainly way more than the number of viable builds in D2. However, the more important question is: how many of these rune combinations actually make the class feel different to play?
As Zoltar said, D3 would be amazing with stat, skill, rune, and gear customization. With just runes it will still be fun. Patches/expansions will likely add things like runewords and the talisman and other things we might not have even thought of yet. But that doesn't mean that the game would be even better if you had to make a meaningful decision when choosing skills, or could customize your stats now that they could actually matter.
I can't wait to play D3 no matter how it ships, but I would love the game to be even better than it currently is.
What the heck is your problem? So just because you don't like the rune system eveyone has to hate it? Only your opinion counts? I do like the new rune system. I like that a spell like magic missile can now have different flavors, to be multiple missiles, to be a single large damage missile, to act like guided arrow.
Finally, the only statement you made with any merit. Specific examples if you please, try keeping the games in the same general games catagory if possible. The developer of Titan's Quest did exactly as you have mentioned, where are they now? Oh yes they went out of business.
The level of support/patch/content we got from Diablo 2 after release was terible. I'm not just talking about mere patches. I would like to see contant new items added, or new whatever added. Perhaps even rework systems that don't work once its been tested. Perhaps that's too optimistic, perhaps I am viewing it like an MMO in terms of wanting contant new content for the game. [For the record. I am strongly against Diablo as an MMO and especially of monthly payments].
Thank you chippydip for posting as someone actually interested in discussion. The maka's of world seem only intent on making snide remarks.
I do actually agree with stat distribution. I play way too much RPG to not want/miss it. But the D2 implementation was terrible and I've not heard of another method that will work, especially if we want items to add to that stat. Neutral on skill points addition, again it would need to be totally reworked, but anything that allows synergies as in D2 is a complete fail in my book.
You should read my "Diablo Item Realization" thread, because you obviously have that prevalent socially backward mindset. Although this time its dealing with specs, and skill swapping rather than items.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Now it makes sense.
Now we are getting to the heart of the matter, you are all butthurt, and dont like the new systems.
You seem to want Diablo2 the second coming, rather than Diablo 3.
So now you want to ensure everyone is as miserable as you with the new system.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I voted no. Its fine. There is NO NEED to penalize/punish/make another ridiculous step that we have to go through to play the game.
This system gives you ENORMOUS freedom to play this game to the fullest. Its like a waiter walking up to you and saying "welcome to the Every Food in the World Restaruant - what may I get you to eat?" and your lame ass response of "Wait a minute - I think that's unfair and unbalanced, I'm bothered by having every choice at my finger tips - it just doesn't feel like eating at a restaurant unless I can be limited by three or four crappy choices. I want my eating experience to be vague and boring."
Don't be stupid - enjoy the game they are giving you. Whenever the F&*% it comes out.
edit: angry typos pacified
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Don't over think it, Diablo is about improving on the older systems, while adding some new systems(lol that's the whole ******* idea behind having a series/making sequels).
If they want to start fresh(which at this point, the only thing left in common with D2, is the item drop system, and some char/story ref), then they should make a completely different game, and don't name it Diablo 3.
When all is said and done, this game will play like a Diablo clone(a very differen't Diablo clone), and not feel anything like an actual Diablo game.
hell they even changed a very standard potion system, to this wierd(this system Isn't specifically bad by any means, but It's not good either, as it does subtract "a little" from certain aspects) keep the action going blood orb system, which further puts it apart from what people would think of when you say Diablo.
Yea, sorry but It's pretty clear this Isn't a Diablo game(no stat allocation, no skill tree, some wierd blood orb system instead of a potion system, being told that towns are basically meaningless now, exc), but a odd Diablo clone, that just happens to be called Diablo3.
Don't get me wrong I like Diablo clones, and in no way am I saying this "will" (well it might if they put the broken version of the rune system in, damnit, we have a right to identify items before using it)be a bad game(I'm looking foward to it like the rest here), but you're kidden your self to think this deserves to be called a Diablo game(every diablo type system but the item drop system, has been removed from the game for crying out loud).
PS. Incase for some reason you don't know(lol new to gaming perhaps), in any case, customization is a good thing.
First off, Zoltor, please please please edit your quotes so its not so darn long. (Sorry pet peeve).
Well... this is another whole tangent that I hope not to go down but... the essense of the game is diablo. However, if you look at a few of the more popular franchises...
Ultima 1-8
There was story continuitiy among all the games but in terms of actual gameplay and mechanics, quite different especially from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7. But there is no doubt it was ultima. (I refuse to admit U9 as part of the ultima series. In my parallel universe it never existed).
Elderscrolls Series.
If you look at the evolution of the series, the first few elderscrolls has almost nothing in common with the current generation of elderscrolls. And while Morrorwind/Oblivion/Skyrim are all open world RPG's, they also rebuilt engines and while still an open world RPG are quite different in mechanics, and even in atmosphere.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and there is no wrong or right answer to this. I can only speak for myself when I say that Diablo 3 is THE MOST diablo like game/clone that I have ever had the pleasure to watch (Sadly not in the beta...yet).
No other ARPG has even come close to matching D3 in feeling like Diablo, and it has been a long time (probably since Dragon Age Origins) was released that I've felt this level of excietment for a game.
Yup, I agree. Blizzard is so good because they don't just make Diablo 2 clones, they push the envelop and change the genre standards. Other franchises, can only follow in the coat tails of Blizzard Entertainment and create clones of their games.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Lol yea and look how crappy those games ended up becoming, I don't think we should follow other companies poor examples.
For example: If Blizzard continues along this line of thought, the next Diablo game "will" be like FF 13
I'm sorry, but I feel there is more to a Diablo game then hacking monsters, and having Dark music, setting/mood.
I might just do that! Hehehe after all I'm looking for an ARPG game to suck me in while waiting for D3. If you know where I could purchase it online let me know, the only place I think it can be bought now is amazon.
Exactly, I don't know where people are pulling the "it was meant to be played this way"(It not only is clear that you aren't meant to have access to all your skills on the fly, otherwise you wouldn't have been limited to only 6 active skills, but they also downright specifically said you aren't meant to have access to all your skills as well).
Yea, go to Amazon.com, they will will have it in stock. It only costs 20$, and if you buy the latest expansion (aka Fate: The Traitor Soul) it comes with the first two parts for free as well.
Note: There is an insane amount of content(itemwise, and questwise as well), and replay, well you could play forever if you wanted to, as the dungeon has over 2million floors(no joke).
The only real problem is, It's single player only(not even local multiplayer), but It's still awesome. It's the closest you can get to Diablo, without being Diablo.
Are you high?
Because nothing you said made any sense at all. You clearly are not living on the planet Earth.
Less Customization?!?
A Few Billion builds >>>>> A couple Cookie cutter builds.
I promise you D3 will allow players to switch skills, and the worst case scenario is we will always have to goto town.(not likely either btw)
Changing skills is an exploit lol.
Changing tactics is what any logical person does, especially in a situation where it appears you would lose.
If we go by your logic, we should pick the dumbest person in the armed forces and make him a general.
Half orc mages suddenly become barbarians or some BS.
You mean that actually made sense to you?
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yep completely agree, I think Blizzard as well as some gamers, forgot that such game were suppose to be RPGs. Blizzard is acting like Diablo is only about the action, with the occassional item drop, while some fans seem to think It's just a good stress releaver, which is more or less the same thing sigh(aka me bash monster, me pickup shiny thing, and literally nothing past that. I really love shinies myself, but there a little bit more then that, when it comes to RPGs).
Hm I don't know how to break it to people, but Diablo is "suppose" to resemble something like a RPG, and RP(aka Role Playing), implies that char development is a major aspect of such, just saying.
The current design is clearly not what was originally intended when they implemented this system, but I'm not sure I share your optimism that they will definitely decide to tweak the system in some way before launch.
Lots of people don't seem to want to have to pick a spec for their characters and just want to stick with the current system. I think if given only the option of the current system or a short cooldown or just having to go to town (basically no detriment other than a small amount of time) then I'd rather they just leave it how it is now. We don't need it to feel like swapping skills frequently is an intended mechanic that has been made more difficult for no apparent reason.
But I think they really should at least make a solid decision on if they want people to have easy access to all their skills or if they want the 6 skill slot limit to actually mean something. If its the former, then they should add support for additional hot-keys so you can use what you want without having to mess with skill swaps at all. If they want the latter, then they need to make skill swapping "difficult" enough that its not profitable to switch to a different setup when you need a special utility build or get to a boss, but not so difficult that you can't switch things up when you want to try out a new build for a few games or to match your skills to the party members you get matched with.
If rune selection is the only mechanic for "builds" then we certainly will have a huge number of them, with almost all of them being viable choices, but how many of those builds are really different from the rest? How many of those choices will alter the way you play that class? And if this many options would be good, wouldn't even more be better if you actually had to choose just 6 skills as well?
People who don't want to think about skill selection still aren't going to think about it if they can swap skills on the fly vs if they have to pick 6 and stick with it. They will either just pick their 6 favorite skills from leveling, or they will lookup the cookie cutter builds online and go with whatever set of skills and runes that somebody told them was the best setup.