Blizzard said they won't official support mods, but will not mind if people make them for offline single player. Most likely you will need to have a seperate install of the game for the mod though. The whole battle.net thing is deeply embedded throughout the whole game. It will be hard to make a mod that still allows you to play vanilla multiplayer over battle.net (not to mention risky with the way Warden detects hacks).
Zero benefits? It's fun to play with others in the same room as you. There's no need to type to communicate. More than likely, these are your friends or people you know, so it's easier to converse and do other things, like go out before/after, order food, etc.Think of why it is more fun for two(or more) people to share beers over the same television set watching football than it is to watch in their own homes, alone.
I do see your point, but Jackzor beat me to the answer I would have given
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Who hasn't been to a LAN party? I actually miss LAN parties... just gather all your friends up.. get stupid and play games.. It was the most fun I ever had with video games.
Blizzard seems to be on this "social media" kick with their games.. but didn't "social" originate from the pioneer group of players who created LAN parties?
No LAN play just isolates players from group events.. unless you have really really nice internet you won't be able to have any fun outside of battle.net with SC2 or D3.
I can't drag my wife and child along to a LAN party these days.. but I know if I ever did go to one we wouldn't be playing a blizzard game. We would be playing a LAN capable game.
I know i'll be organizing that at home. Even here in Greece the bandwidth is enough to have 4 people playing from the same connection through battle.net. Besides, i'll be able to keep my progress and continue on my own or with other friends while online.
Damn you Europeans and your awesome bandwidth.. I have to pay $15 extra month for my high bandwidth, though I must say I'm satisfied.. Still though
I hope my friends will play as much as I will, like every waking second I'm not working.. I'm taking off a week or so to play the living hell out of the game, no kidding..
Annyyway, on topic, I'll hopefully have my old friends bring his PC over at some point during that week and we can have an old fasion O.N.H - Over Night Hangout
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Who hasn't been to a LAN party? I actually miss LAN parties... just gather all your friends up.. get stupid and play games.. It was the most fun I ever had with video games.
I remember the good ol' days of quake LAN parties, and I agree with the appeal of being in the same room with a bunch of friends playing online.
That said, I can't fathom why people are dissatisfied with simply being in the same room and playing over battle.net. If the problem is fear of lag/latency issues, well modern internet architecture can more than handle a 4-person multiplayer game over the same pipe.
Bandwidth isn't a problem, I mean in a full WoW raid you're looking at 30kbps down, 3-4kbps up (roughly). I would be extremely shocked to find D3 using substantially more bw than a full WoW raid, but even if it was 100kbps down and 20kbps up (an absurd number), you'd only need 400kbps down and 80kbps up. I have u-verse, at 24M down and 5M up.. so y'all can come over to my house if you want.
The question of latency is more of an issue than bw, but your ping isn't noticeably impacted by 4 users vs. 1 user, so that will come down to whoever has the best connection..
Now, the modding issue Maka raises is valid, but as a percentage, modders are a tiny fraction of potential D3 users. Not that I don't feel for you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Who hasn't been to a LAN party? I actually miss LAN parties... just gather all your friends up.. get stupid and play games.. It was the most fun I ever had with video games.
I remember the good ol' days of quake LAN parties, and I agree with the appeal of being in the same room with a bunch of friends playing online.
That said, I can't fathom why people are dissatisfied with simply being in the same room and playing over battle.net. If the problem is fear of lag/latency issues, well modern internet architecture can more than handle a 4-person multiplayer game over the same pipe.
Because I'm sick and tired of game companies dictating -I- should not be allowed to play LANs with people that don't own the game.
Thats right. I was always the one gamer within a bunch of friends and what we all can play is up entirely to me. When people came over, it was always to play stuff they don't have.
It sickens me that they consider it so bad to just play LAN with friends over one copy. The majority of my gaming fun came from there. If my friends had to buy the games too, they never would have bothered.
Thats my main concern. Games are expansive and for occasional LANs nobody is willing to buy a bunch of 60$ games. Nobody I know anyway.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, StarCraft 2 pirates can play over LAN now (kind of, its not exactly LAN I think, but you can play together with an illegal copy). Yeah, thats right. So fuck that "pirating" excuse.
Because I'm sick and tired of game companies dictating -I- should not be allowed to play LANs with people that don't own the game.
Wait wait... WHAT? You're pissed that there's no LAN support because it doesn't allow you to pirate the game? You're tired of game companies dictating that people should not have the right to steal their intellectual property?
Absolutely mental. Worst argument for LAN support I've ever heard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Because I'm sick and tired of game companies dictating -I- should not be allowed to play LANs with people that don't own the game.
Wait wait... WHAT? You're pissed that there's no LAN support because it doesn't allow you to pirate the game? You're tired of game companies dictating that people should not have the right to steal their intellectual property?
Absolutely mental. Worst argument for LAN support I've ever heard.
Steal? Its called playing with one copy of the game over LAN. Its not stealing. And I frankly don't give a shit if you think it is.
Steal? Its called playing with one copy of the game over LAN. Its not stealing. And I frankly don't give a shit if you think it is.
Well you don't have to give a shit that I think it is. But you probably should care that Blizzard thinks it is.
But really man.. Game licenses apply to one computer at a time for a very good reason. Otherwise, people will just install the game on all their friend's computers, as you've just described, literally robbing the company of revenue they deserve. I'm not sure what alternate universe you're living in, but here in reality, that's the way it is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
On topic, SFjake, Blizzard (StarCraft II) gives more freedom than other companies that have limited installs etc. They tie the game to a battle.net account. After a one-time log in you can play offline without even the game DVD. Which also means that a gamer friend (in this case you) can install the game to his friends' computers, log in once and let them play. That's a free single-player game right there.
Now if you want co-op too... you can't have the world for free. If they like the game, they should also buy it.
On topic, SFjake, Blizzard (StarCraft II) gives more freedom than other companies that have limited installs etc. They tie the game to a battle.net account. After a one-time log in you can play offline without even the game DVD. Which also means that a gamer friend (in this case you) can install the game to his friends' computers, log in once and let them play. That's a free single-player game right there.
Now if you want co-op too... you can't have the world for free. If they like the game, they should also buy it.
Agreed, my friends tried to mooch D2 off me and tried their damnedest to figure out how to play online from the hd copy they got from my disk. They never succeeded, so they just bitched about Blizzard.. Right now the whole damn battle chest in $20 on Amazon.. Lol. Anyway, as I said in the beginning I don't think LAN is a god idea nowa days with all the copying and hacking everyone can do with a simple guide on YouTube.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
The thing is, most of the time pirates manage to add those features, while the paying customers are deprived of them. I have little doubt that people with pirated D3 will eventually be able to play with each other outside bnet, while legitimate users will be stuck with bnet. Pirates will have more features available than people who own the game. Now THAT'S mental.
Unfortunately I agree with you.. But I don't see the possibility of hackers cracking LAN support being a valid reason to implement LAN support for everyone. The point is, playing in the same room over bnet will be nearly indistinguishable from playing in the same room over LAN.
As I mentioned before, I do sympathize with the modding community. And who knows, maybe they'll implement that in the future. But Blizzard is really cracking down on pirating, and bnet will greatly help with that. In my opinion it's a necessary sacrifice for greater protection from hackers (esp given the whole PSN debacle). Hopefully, people who pirate the game will be punished strongly enough to eradicate the practice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
D3 will be popular enough to motivate some talented individuals to get together and create third-party LAN support. I suppose much of it depends on how much game information is stored serverside on bnet, and how they can emulate that. Blizzard with SC2 and probably all further iterations are trying to keep the game exclusively on their online platform. Expect D3's singleplayer to be like SC2 in which you need to be connected online to do the achievements and such. With SC2, they removed LAN in an effort to monopolize tournament creation. Since SC2 can't be properly played unless over battle.net, all professional players must be playing on the servers, and with Blizzard's new tools, it's all set up so that they exercise control over it all. I hope that these features make it into Diablo, so you can have periodic tournaments of PvP serverwide, or for example a scheduled event, SOMETHING akin to Uber diablo but not as cheesy, perhaps some kind of gauntlet challenge that rewards the players lasting the longest comparatively?
On topic, SFjake, Blizzard (StarCraft II) gives more freedom than other companies that have limited installs etc. They tie the game to a battle.net account. After a one-time log in you can play offline without even the game DVD. Which also means that a gamer friend (in this case you) can install the game to his friends' computers, log in once and let them play. That's a free single-player game right there.
Now if you want co-op too... you can't have the world for free. If they like the game, they should also buy it.
You just linked the words "freedom" and "battle.net" account.
Yet the control they have over all of you, me included, since those accounts even exist is astounding.
I wouldn't exactly pride a company that controls their clients in such a way, on their oh so generous freedom.
I should have that right to play with a friend without him buying another copy. But I'm sure the more "interest" I show in the subject, people would just go crazy about "hey its just gaming, screw your principles". Well, there's why game companies have such a giant grasp over everybody and nobody is realizing it.
D3 will be popular enough to motivate some talented individuals to get together and create third-party LAN support.
AFAIK, attempts to create 3rd party LAN for SC2 failed miserably... I mean, there are plenty of hoaxes/scams because people are definitely looking for a way to play it without buying it and hackers take advantage, but I don't think there is a working LAN emulator. Or that there would ever be one.
I didn't test it, but some sort of LAN SC2 is definitively available right now.
The thing is, most of the time pirates manage to add those features, while the paying customers are deprived of them. I have little doubt that people with pirated D3 will eventually be able to play with each other outside bnet, while legitimate users will be stuck with bnet. Pirates will have more features available than people who own the game. Now THAT'S mental.
Unfortunately I agree with you.. But I don't see the possibility of hackers cracking LAN support being a valid reason to implement LAN support for everyone. The point is, playing in the same room over bnet will be nearly indistinguishable from playing in the same room over LAN.
As I mentioned before, I do sympathize with the modding community. And who knows, maybe they'll implement that in the future. But Blizzard is really cracking down on pirating, and bnet will greatly help with that. In my opinion it's a necessary sacrifice for greater protection from hackers (esp given the whole PSN debacle). Hopefully, people who pirate the game will be punished strongly enough to eradicate the practice.
Now Im gonna play Diablo's advocate a bit here (zing..)but are you sure its still gonna be a quality experience? There are alot of people for what ever reasons that can't get higher than 1.5 meg service int or 3 in my case I live in the mountains(and trust me alot of people who have dsl get stuck like this...its all about how far way you are from the C.O.) Am I going to be able to have me and my 3 buddies have an all day party of food fun and Diablo, or am I going to have a day of dang look at this lag I can't even tell what spell I'm casting. In short if I can play with my buddies in the same room and it has to be over the internet ok, but plz tell me its going to be a good experience. There are alot of good games out now and days that don't support playing the co-op via the same console and I dont want Diablo to be another one of those games that says no to "inperson" gaming. (maybe there's a way they can do Lan where one host computer has to be on B-net and the world can be generated via hardwware for the rest of the pc's based off of that.it fits, No Bnet no game keeps pirates at bay. one pc connected means less network dependence and more likely a quality experienced for people(assuming 3meg isnt enough to support 4player in one house)in my position or worse.) I don't know....I really would like games to support real life gaming a lil more like they used too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Give a man a skill tree, and he will become a Fire Sorc. Give a man 6 skills to choose from, pulling from all three trees, and he becomes a Fire Sorc that likes to shoot lightning to manage the bigger crowds."
I should have that right to play with a friend without him buying another copy.
Look, I understand what you're saying here.. But I just can't sympathize with that opinion. Unfortunately for us, DRM is here to stay, and I think it should. In a perfect world, where people wouldn't abuse the ability to install as many copies of their game as they want, I would agree with what you're saying.
But the fact is, game developers have to protect themselves, or they will cease to exist. I always pay for my software. I'm a software engineer, and not to do so would create some serious moral dissonance. When people steal and hack the game up, it really hurts legit players. This kind of DRM is really the best way to prevent people from blatantly stealing the game. It's the lesser of two evils, imo. I wouldn't blame Blizzard for protecting their revenue and IP, I would blame the un-ethical, over-privileged internet culture.
Now Im gonna play Diablo's advocate a bit here (zing..)but are you sure its still gonna be a quality experience? There are alot of people for what ever reasons that can't get higher than 1.5 meg service int or 3 in my case I live in the mountains(and trust me alot of people who have dsl get stuck like this...its all about how far way you are from the C.O.)
I definitely feel for you. I'm lucky enough to be within 200 ft. of my u-verse CPE, so I get great service. As you correctly state, it's all about proximity to the fat pipes.. In your case, LAN would be a wonderful feature to have.. And let me be clear, I'm not against LAN as a feature in itself. I just see it as a necessary sacrifice (unfortunate though it may be).
In short if I can play with my buddies in the same room and it has to be over the internet ok, but plz tell me its going to be a good experience. [...] assuming 3meg isnt enough to support 4player in one house [..]
I wouldn't give up on it yet.. 3Meg is more than enough bandwidth for 4 people to play over. I've never heard of online gaming sessions that take up more than 30kbps (down) per user. That said, ping is definitely more important, and that's where rural customers suffer. But Blizzard is a pioneer of gaming netcode, and you might be surprised at what they can do.. Here's hoping they make it viable for you.
*Edit*
merged posts - edit and not reply if nobody else has posted before you - FingolfinGR
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!.....alright I guess i'll have to cope but that really stinks. Unless 3 meg internet can support 4 pcs playing and still have a smoothe game play experience.
Assuming you're all playing together (all 4 of your PCs), it should run fine.
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I do see your point, but Jackzor beat me to the answer I would have given
^This
Blizzard seems to be on this "social media" kick with their games.. but didn't "social" originate from the pioneer group of players who created LAN parties?
No LAN play just isolates players from group events.. unless you have really really nice internet you won't be able to have any fun outside of battle.net with SC2 or D3.
I can't drag my wife and child along to a LAN party these days.. but I know if I ever did go to one we wouldn't be playing a blizzard game. We would be playing a LAN capable game.
I hope my friends will play as much as I will, like every waking second I'm not working.. I'm taking off a week or so to play the living hell out of the game, no kidding..
Annyyway, on topic, I'll hopefully have my old friends bring his PC over at some point during that week and we can have an old fasion O.N.H - Over Night Hangout
I remember the good ol' days of quake LAN parties, and I agree with the appeal of being in the same room with a bunch of friends playing online.
That said, I can't fathom why people are dissatisfied with simply being in the same room and playing over battle.net. If the problem is fear of lag/latency issues, well modern internet architecture can more than handle a 4-person multiplayer game over the same pipe.
Bandwidth isn't a problem, I mean in a full WoW raid you're looking at 30kbps down, 3-4kbps up (roughly). I would be extremely shocked to find D3 using substantially more bw than a full WoW raid, but even if it was 100kbps down and 20kbps up (an absurd number), you'd only need 400kbps down and 80kbps up. I have u-verse, at 24M down and 5M up.. so y'all can come over to my house if you want.
The question of latency is more of an issue than bw, but your ping isn't noticeably impacted by 4 users vs. 1 user, so that will come down to whoever has the best connection..
Now, the modding issue Maka raises is valid, but as a percentage, modders are a tiny fraction of potential D3 users. Not that I don't feel for you.
-Thomas Jefferson
Because I'm sick and tired of game companies dictating -I- should not be allowed to play LANs with people that don't own the game.
Thats right. I was always the one gamer within a bunch of friends and what we all can play is up entirely to me. When people came over, it was always to play stuff they don't have.
It sickens me that they consider it so bad to just play LAN with friends over one copy. The majority of my gaming fun came from there. If my friends had to buy the games too, they never would have bothered.
Thats my main concern. Games are expansive and for occasional LANs nobody is willing to buy a bunch of 60$ games. Nobody I know anyway.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, StarCraft 2 pirates can play over LAN now (kind of, its not exactly LAN I think, but you can play together with an illegal copy). Yeah, thats right. So fuck that "pirating" excuse.
Wait wait... WHAT? You're pissed that there's no LAN support because it doesn't allow you to pirate the game? You're tired of game companies dictating that people should not have the right to steal their intellectual property?
Absolutely mental. Worst argument for LAN support I've ever heard.
-Thomas Jefferson
Well you don't have to give a shit that I think it is. But you probably should care that Blizzard thinks it is.
But really man.. Game licenses apply to one computer at a time for a very good reason. Otherwise, people will just install the game on all their friend's computers, as you've just described, literally robbing the company of revenue they deserve. I'm not sure what alternate universe you're living in, but here in reality, that's the way it is.
-Thomas Jefferson
On topic, SFjake, Blizzard (StarCraft II) gives more freedom than other companies that have limited installs etc. They tie the game to a battle.net account. After a one-time log in you can play offline without even the game DVD. Which also means that a gamer friend (in this case you) can install the game to his friends' computers, log in once and let them play. That's a free single-player game right there.
Now if you want co-op too... you can't have the world for free. If they like the game, they should also buy it.
Agreed, my friends tried to mooch D2 off me and tried their damnedest to figure out how to play online from the hd copy they got from my disk. They never succeeded, so they just bitched about Blizzard.. Right now the whole damn battle chest in $20 on Amazon.. Lol. Anyway, as I said in the beginning I don't think LAN is a god idea nowa days with all the copying and hacking everyone can do with a simple guide on YouTube.
Unfortunately I agree with you.. But I don't see the possibility of hackers cracking LAN support being a valid reason to implement LAN support for everyone. The point is, playing in the same room over bnet will be nearly indistinguishable from playing in the same room over LAN.
As I mentioned before, I do sympathize with the modding community. And who knows, maybe they'll implement that in the future. But Blizzard is really cracking down on pirating, and bnet will greatly help with that. In my opinion it's a necessary sacrifice for greater protection from hackers (esp given the whole PSN debacle). Hopefully, people who pirate the game will be punished strongly enough to eradicate the practice.
-Thomas Jefferson
Yet the control they have over all of you, me included, since those accounts even exist is astounding.
I wouldn't exactly pride a company that controls their clients in such a way, on their oh so generous freedom.
I should have that right to play with a friend without him buying another copy. But I'm sure the more "interest" I show in the subject, people would just go crazy about "hey its just gaming, screw your principles". Well, there's why game companies have such a giant grasp over everybody and nobody is realizing it.
But this is getting off topic.
I didn't test it, but some sort of LAN SC2 is definitively available right now.
TheSkaBoss
Look, I understand what you're saying here.. But I just can't sympathize with that opinion. Unfortunately for us, DRM is here to stay, and I think it should. In a perfect world, where people wouldn't abuse the ability to install as many copies of their game as they want, I would agree with what you're saying.
But the fact is, game developers have to protect themselves, or they will cease to exist. I always pay for my software. I'm a software engineer, and not to do so would create some serious moral dissonance. When people steal and hack the game up, it really hurts legit players. This kind of DRM is really the best way to prevent people from blatantly stealing the game. It's the lesser of two evils, imo. I wouldn't blame Blizzard for protecting their revenue and IP, I would blame the un-ethical, over-privileged internet culture.
I definitely feel for you. I'm lucky enough to be within 200 ft. of my u-verse CPE, so I get great service. As you correctly state, it's all about proximity to the fat pipes.. In your case, LAN would be a wonderful feature to have.. And let me be clear, I'm not against LAN as a feature in itself. I just see it as a necessary sacrifice (unfortunate though it may be).
I wouldn't give up on it yet.. 3Meg is more than enough bandwidth for 4 people to play over. I've never heard of online gaming sessions that take up more than 30kbps (down) per user. That said, ping is definitely more important, and that's where rural customers suffer. But Blizzard is a pioneer of gaming netcode, and you might be surprised at what they can do.. Here's hoping they make it viable for you.
*Edit*
merged posts - edit and not reply if nobody else has posted before you - FingolfinGR
-Thomas Jefferson