You're complaining about fighting the same people over and over when in d2 that's exactly what you did. As for the wait time, I don't think you'll have just one duel when you get matched up. If you take a look at the arena battles footage, they have points at the top of the screen which have so far gone up to 4-1 which suggests that you can have at least 5 battles before having to go back in the queue and what-not.
3 minutes waiting in line, or 3 minutes waiting outside the town, spamming spells at the entrance. It's all the same.
At least in the first option you can go off and do something else in the mean time.
D2 duels would constantly refresh (people leaving and entering), and you could easily exit and find other game with different people.
My main issue with the matchmaking is that the higher you get in the ranks, the more time it takes to find a match(this is fine for SC2, but not in Diablo). Being able to fight 5 times before the next queue means nothing, duels are decided in seconds, in the end people are going to spend more time on the waiting line than on the arena.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
don't worry too much, there's probably going to be some sort of "leagues" in ranks and/or have to fight people from higher/lower leagues in order to progress. of course it will be relative to what time you decide to play. if there aren't many people online, you'll definitely end up playing with the same people!
Obviously your opinion is strongly biased. What's with people being afraid of accepting new and better things?
"If it's not broken, don't fix it". Is this your motto?
...I said Diablo pvp was easily controlled and changed whenever you felt like it, with this new system it could be the same way but it was never hard to make a 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 in Diablo 2, if it was for you then you simply don't know what you are doing.
And fourthly, Diablo 2 had health pots and a safe zone - aka town a few feet away - which encouraged running away and healing which shouldn't be allowed.
There were 4 health globes, 1 for each person, if the guy wants to run away to heal then obviously the enemy will know where to find him.
And what about being low on health? Won't that encourage running away? Don't be stupid.
Diablo 2 had health pots which weren't allowed in any good dueling, if you don't pvp in Diablo then you simply won't understand. Going to town and healing were not allowed in any duel with significance if you did you take a loss. Also when you are low on health yea may want to play a little more cautious but that doesn't mean run away and try and hide till a health globe pops up so you can be like "YEAZ I R TEH AWESUM NOW CAUS I SUX N HID N NOW i AM R fUlL LiFzORS Wow!!!!" Why should we reward someone for losing a fight and running away till they have full life again and the other guy is left with what he had? Give your opinion on the matter but from what you type I can tell you can't PvP in Diablo and thus have no idea what I am even talking about or anything so refrain from quoting me.
...I said Diablo pvp was easily controlled and changed whenever you felt like it, with this new system it could be the same way but it was never hard to make a 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 in Diablo 2, if it was for you then you simply don't know what you are doing.
There's at least one person in this thread complaining that you could be dueling the same person over and over again. What do you think would happen if you spent the time to organize a 3v3 match in a game? Obviously you'll be fighting the same person over and over.
And I don't need to hear about how easy you found it, just accept that it will be much easier with the D3 system to play team battles.
Diablo 2 had health pots which weren't allowed in any good dueling, if you don't pvp in Diablo then you simply won't understand. Going to town and healing were not allowed in any duel with significance if you did you take a loss. Also when you are low on health yea may want to play a little more cautious but that doesn't mean run away and try and hide till a health globe pops up so you can be like "YEAZ I R TEH AWESUM NOW CAUS I SUX N HID N NOW i AM R fUlL LiFzORS Wow!!!!" Why should we reward someone for losing a fight and running away till they have full life again and the other guy is left with what he had? Give your opinion on the matter but from what you type I can tell you can't PvP in Diablo and thus have no idea what I am even talking about or anything so refrain from quoting me.
Health pots weren't allowed? Health pots were frowned upon in pvp, not that they were restricted. In the same way hiding and waiting for health globes can be frowned upon, but it's not restricted - and in THIS case, the other guy can take measures to counter this. It's an arena, you can't dodge the other guy forever, and all the health globes are in the middle so you can stand there and hoard them for yourself if you need to.
"In any good pvp battles"? Well now we can scrap that and say "in any pvp battles".
Health globes are finite in supply and depend upon X or Y happening. I'm guessing/hoping you will not be able to use potions or any consumables in arenas, and things like orbs (and maybe other spawned power ups?) will be the only resources for grabbing.
The PvP in D2 was a pile of crap that people somehow took and made into something that was semi-playable. Any change is an improvement, imo.
Looks like tons of fun too and as long as they don't balance the game around it (which Jay Wilson said they wouldn't) i'm all for it.
Some people just cling onto nostalgia for the sake of it. D2 was _not_ perfect - far from it, in fact.
I'm sorry, but its quite clear that all of us think that arenas are a improvement from what D2 had. However, saying that pvp was broken in D2 is stupid, most people who think that way were lame-ass duelers, heck, if i had my ass handed to me every single game i would think that way too.
Pretty much everyone on this forums are more of pve oriented, thats why everyone says D2 dueling sucked, and I'm willing to bet it will be the same for D3, specially because the game won't be balanced around it, meaning there will be a LOT of ''i win'' skills on pvp.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
The PvP in D2 was a pile of crap that people somehow took and made into something that was semi-playable. Any change is an improvement, imo.
Looks like tons of fun too and as long as they don't balance the game around it (which Jay Wilson said they wouldn't) i'm all for it.
Some people just cling onto nostalgia for the sake of it. D2 was _not_ perfect - far from it, in fact.
I'm sorry, but its quite clear that all of us think that arenas are a improvement from what D2 had. However, saying that pvp was broken in D2 is stupid, most people who think that way were lame-ass duelers, heck, if i had my ass handed to me every single game i would think that way too.
Pretty much everyone on this forums are more of pve oriented, thats why everyone says D2 dueling sucked, and I'm willing to bet it will be the same for D3, specially because the game won't be balanced around it, meaning there will be a LOT of ''i win'' skills on pvp.
If you think that D2 PvP wasn't broken then you are delusional. I'm sure even the original creators of D2 would say that it was broken and tacked on.
The PvP in D2 was a pile of crap that people somehow took and made into something that was semi-playable. Any change is an improvement, imo.
Looks like tons of fun too and as long as they don't balance the game around it (which Jay Wilson said they wouldn't) i'm all for it.
Some people just cling onto nostalgia for the sake of it. D2 was _not_ perfect - far from it, in fact.
I'm sorry, but its quite clear that all of us think that arenas are a improvement from what D2 had. However, saying that pvp was broken in D2 is stupid, most people who think that way were lame-ass duelers, heck, if i had my ass handed to me every single game i would think that way too.
Pretty much everyone on this forums are more of pve oriented, thats why everyone says D2 dueling sucked, and I'm willing to bet it will be the same for D3, specially because the game won't be balanced around it, meaning there will be a LOT of ''i win'' skills on pvp.
If you think that D2 PvP wasn't broken then you are delusional. I'm sure even the original creators of D2 would say that it was broken and tacked on.
I'm not saying it wasn't fun at times.
Actually, one of the original D2 developers(schaeffer) said it was all intended(pk, the dueling, everything), i remember he got thoroughly flamed for it, lol.
D3 pvp is not that different from what D2 has, its blood moor with walls and a little more organized(with the ranking and such), from the videos i can say it plays the same as D2.
In fact, the most broken aspect of D2 is.. *gasp* pve itself, with all the mindless bosses runs and lvl 10's in hell, so broken that the most drastic changes in D3 are pve oriented and to prevent any kind of rushing, runs, etc.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
D3 pvp is not that different from what D2 has, its blood moor with walls and a little more organized(with the ranking and such), from the videos i can say it plays the same as D2.
Yes, of course. So I find it hard to comprehend why people are still gripping onto the D2 pvp system. Nostalgia can be the only reason...
Everyone had their fair share of running back to town after getting owned in a duel when they first started playing. After this they stopped running back because they realized gold isn't that important, and that they don't want to be frowned upon by the others.
This was very different in hardcore. In many situations it was acceptable to run to safety because they know the consequences. It's much easier to take the flame than to lose your character.
So all pvp had to offer in terms of rules in D2 was the word of each dueler.
I'm glad for the change. Now these rules are enforced and we have an organized system.
I hate Arena. Its the most boring thing they could come up with, I see. They better not ****ing screw with the PvE balance just because their shiny Arena bullshit is never balanced.
D2's PvP had flaws, but its like the only thing they can go to is Arena. I'm sorry, I wouldn't laugh at WoW today nearly as much if Arena never existed.
Don't think I particularily care in the end: I always considered Diablo a PvE game. At best, I just don't want that crap affecting PvE in any way. WoW's balance of Arena ruined my fun like 10 times in a row in PvE.
I can still remember the excessive whining over this and that in PvP. And then they changed it. And it just made my PvE worse. Its like nobody gave a shit about that.
Anyway. I have nothing else to add.
If you watch the Q and A or any of the blizzcon...(if your a diablo fan idk why you wouldent...)but jay said him self that the PvP and PvM would not be anywhere near each other thats one of the biggest reasons why they did arena in the first place...
...I said Diablo pvp was easily controlled and changed whenever you felt like it, with this new system it could be the same way but it was never hard to make a 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 in Diablo 2, if it was for you then you simply don't know what you are doing.
There's at least one person in this thread complaining that you could be dueling the same person over and over again. What do you think would happen if you spent the time to organize a 3v3 match in a game? Obviously you'll be fighting the same person over and over.
And I don't need to hear about how easy you found it, just accept that it will be much easier with the D3 system to play team battles.
Diablo 2 had health pots which weren't allowed in any good dueling, if you don't pvp in Diablo then you simply won't understand. Going to town and healing were not allowed in any duel with significance if you did you take a loss. Also when you are low on health yea may want to play a little more cautious but that doesn't mean run away and try and hide till a health globe pops up so you can be like "YEAZ I R TEH AWESUM NOW CAUS I SUX N HID N NOW i AM R fUlL LiFzORS Wow!!!!" Why should we reward someone for losing a fight and running away till they have full life again and the other guy is left with what he had? Give your opinion on the matter but from what you type I can tell you can't PvP in Diablo and thus have no idea what I am even talking about or anything so refrain from quoting me.
Health pots weren't allowed? Health pots were frowned upon in pvp, not that they were restricted. In the same way hiding and waiting for health globes can be frowned upon, but it's not restricted - and in THIS case, the other guy can take measures to counter this. It's an arena, you can't dodge the other guy forever, and all the health globes are in the middle so you can stand there and hoard them for yourself if you need to.
"In any good pvp battles"? Well now we can scrap that and say "in any pvp battles".
So you are trying to compare a manually used health potion which heals slowly over time to an instant run over health globe which heals instantly 40% of your life per globe...great idea. It's a dumb idea and it only serves there to reward losers with wins they shouldn't have cause they ran away and healed. Simple as that, im sure you will be all over those health globes judging by your comments tho so enjoy haha.
It's not directly designating core mechanics but rather indirectly it's possible to have to nerf a PVE talent to "fix" PVP which affects PVE.
No, Jay Wilson specifically commented on this during Q&A after their Dev panel... PvP will be balanced for PvP only, and it won't affect PvE play. PvE is and always will be the focus of D3, given what the devs have said to date. Jay's example was a move that does a 6 second stun to monsters will most likely not stun a player for 6 seconds, but instead stun for a shorter duration. To me, this says they're balancing the classes for PvP in PvP situations exclusively, which is exactly what they should do.
Try to watch the panel for a lot of these details which would clear up this whole debate.
I think honest pvpers such as yourself appreciate the flaws in D2 honestly, and can embrace the new changes we see in D3. Change is always hard, but when you understand the issues better, then D3 (without being accused as a blind fan) offers us so much more. It's like they said - pvp is a side fun game. Definately is that now!
Nostalgia, definately the baddie here.
Yes don't get me wrong, I enjoyed D2 pvp very much so and at the time many felt like there wasn't any need for change, except for the bugs. We all already had things handled in terms of rules, but now seeing the arena, it would just be naive of us to not admit that it's a much better system.
If one presented the the two pvp systems to someone that has played neither of the games (and thus isn't biased) then it's obvious which one would be preferred.
So you are trying to compare a manually used health potion which heals slowly over time to an instant run over health globe which heals instantly 40% of your life per globe...great idea. It's a dumb idea and it only serves there to reward losers with wins they shouldn't have cause they ran away and healed. Simple as that, im sure you will be all over those health globes judging by your comments tho so enjoy haha.
Right, now you're just scrambling for more reasons to try defend D2. There really is no need, it has already been established - by about 90% of fans since we still have the nostalgics to deal with - that the arena is the better system.
Manually used health potion compared to run over health globes that instantly heal?
You're forgetting about rejuvenation potions in D2
They're manually triggered and you're trying to twist this around by claiming that running over them is more of a flawed system.
The arena is a controlled environment - so I'm willing to bet that there will be an option to allow or disable the health globes
The low health player runs away to wait for the health - the enemy has two options, to either:
hunt them down, and since we are trapped in an arena setting, we can't run away indefinitely in a straight line which means catching up to them will be way easier (this happened in the dueling gameplay video) or...
to wait in the centre where the health globes spawn to be the first to get to them, in which case the low health player will end up coming to you.
I hate Arena. Its the most boring thing they could come up with, I see. They better not ****ing screw with the PvE balance just because their shiny Arena bullshit is never balanced.
D2's PvP had flaws, but its like the only thing they can go to is Arena. I'm sorry, I wouldn't laugh at WoW today nearly as much if Arena never existed.
Don't think I particularily care in the end: I always considered Diablo a PvE game. At best, I just don't want that crap affecting PvE in any way. WoW's balance of Arena ruined my fun like 10 times in a row in PvE.
I can still remember the excessive whining over this and that in PvP. And then they changed it. And it just made my PvE worse. Its like nobody gave a shit about that.
Anyway. I have nothing else to add.
I agree that Diablo is PVE, but it's also nice to see they try to implement some PVP into it. If you watched the Q&A or have read about it (or watched it on youtube after the actual panel), or even talked to someone about it you'd know it won't affect PVE at all.
I sure do like this kind of thing. I liked playing wow arena to some extent, and I also like playing Bloodline Champions, which is a game dedicated entirely to pvp in that kind of format. So I welcome this with open arms! It's not gonna be balanced, but it's a fun feature and I hope to enjoy playing it with my friends against randoms and have just as much fun as playing PVE.
Right, now you're just scrambling for more reasons to try defend D2. There really is no need, it has already been established - by about 90% of fans since we still have the nostalgics to deal with - that the arena is the better system.
Manually used health potion compared to run over health globes that instantly heal?
You're forgetting about rejuvenation potions in D2
They're manually triggered and you're trying to twist this around by claiming that running over them is more of a flawed system.
The arena is a controlled environment - so I'm willing to bet that there will be an option to allow or disable the health globes
The low health player runs away to wait for the health - the enemy has two options, to either:
hunt them down, and since we are trapped in an arena setting, we can't run away indefinitely in a straight line which means catching up to them will be way easier (this happened in the dueling gameplay video) or...
to wait in the centre where the health globes spawn to be the first to get to them, in which case the low health player will end up coming to you.
First off you have no idea what "90%" of Diablo fans want. Secondly I never said Arena was a bad idea, I said healing in arena was a bad idea.
I did not forget rejuvination potions which again, were manually used, it was very simple and easy to say don't use them. To say don't move your character over in that direction to not heal is a whole different animal. We would have to cut off a good portion of the arena to even achieve that which is stupid, if you fail to see this then again I repeat, refrain from quoting me because you simply cannot compete.
Also you ever hunt someone down in D2? Yea they are trapped but how hard is it to run and wait for a health globe to get full life? What if its a DH or a wizard...hmm they can still attack you and if you are a barb you can't just camp the globes cause you risk dying...so thus again we reward the player who should of lost for running, if anything I say if the player heals and still loses his game should just auto uninstall and his gear should shower off his character or he should be forced to always PvE cause he simply cannot handle PvP.
if you fail to see this then again I repeat, refrain from quoting me because you simply cannot compete.
I love how you think think you've already won this argument, considering that I already addressed that point (point 3, did you miss it?), which you obviously ignored since it completely debunks your case.
So you say what if the runner is a wizard or demon hunter and the chaser is a barb. I guess you're not aware of how some of the spells are going to work in D3. The melee classes have all been given more range skills to use, and you can't use teleport and such indefinitely.
So I ask you, if you think it's not possible for a barb to catch a wizard in an arena when the wizard can't use teleport non-stop, then what hope did the barb have in catching a wizard in d2? You don't seem to be complaining about this.
He can camp it. There is a wall in the way, and if the wizard wants any hope in getting in view of the barb then you would have to get closer, which defeats the purpose of running.
And we haven't even played it yet so I think this is enough of the scepticism already.
Finally, look at point 3 again in my previous post. *and refrain from quoting me coz im too cool*
D3 PvP provides plenty of counters for each class. There are ways to get out of snares, kiting, hiding, and "oh shit" moments. Some of the classes will have a perceived advantage because they fit different play archtypes, like ranged > melee, but despite it being a hard match-up, well-timed counters and skill can over come that.
I must have played over 40 rounds of the Barbarian PvP and yes at first it does feel like you're getting tooled around by Wizards because of their ranged skills and mobility, but the Barb has so many gap-closers that it never felt like an impossible match. I think Blizz was very deliberate about showing that off since they gave the demo Barb: Chain Spear, Leap Attack, Sprint, and Ground Stomp. 4 of the 7 skills were all designed to keep your opponent from running from you, not to mention the effects of the runes aiding that situation too. Also everything has a cooldown, so teleport isn't spammable.
D2 duels would constantly refresh (people leaving and entering), and you could easily exit and find other game with different people.
My main issue with the matchmaking is that the higher you get in the ranks, the more time it takes to find a match(this is fine for SC2, but not in Diablo). Being able to fight 5 times before the next queue means nothing, duels are decided in seconds, in the end people are going to spend more time on the waiting line than on the arena.
I had my share of hc loot duels, but i admit, wasn't really my thing. Anyway, I'm not sure how that relates to anything i said.
Diablo 2 had health pots which weren't allowed in any good dueling, if you don't pvp in Diablo then you simply won't understand. Going to town and healing were not allowed in any duel with significance if you did you take a loss. Also when you are low on health yea may want to play a little more cautious but that doesn't mean run away and try and hide till a health globe pops up so you can be like "YEAZ I R TEH AWESUM NOW CAUS I SUX N HID N NOW i AM R fUlL LiFzORS Wow!!!!" Why should we reward someone for losing a fight and running away till they have full life again and the other guy is left with what he had? Give your opinion on the matter but from what you type I can tell you can't PvP in Diablo and thus have no idea what I am even talking about or anything so refrain from quoting me.
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And I don't need to hear about how easy you found it, just accept that it will be much easier with the D3 system to play team battles.
Health pots weren't allowed? Health pots were frowned upon in pvp, not that they were restricted. In the same way hiding and waiting for health globes can be frowned upon, but it's not restricted - and in THIS case, the other guy can take measures to counter this. It's an arena, you can't dodge the other guy forever, and all the health globes are in the middle so you can stand there and hoard them for yourself if you need to.
"In any good pvp battles"? Well now we can scrap that and say "in any pvp battles".
Looks like tons of fun too and as long as they don't balance the game around it (which Jay Wilson said they wouldn't) i'm all for it.
Some people just cling onto nostalgia for the sake of it. D2 was _not_ perfect - far from it, in fact.
I'm sorry, but its quite clear that all of us think that arenas are a improvement from what D2 had. However, saying that pvp was broken in D2 is stupid, most people who think that way were lame-ass duelers, heck, if i had my ass handed to me every single game i would think that way too.
Pretty much everyone on this forums are more of pve oriented, thats why everyone says D2 dueling sucked, and I'm willing to bet it will be the same for D3, specially because the game won't be balanced around it, meaning there will be a LOT of ''i win'' skills on pvp.
If you think that D2 PvP wasn't broken then you are delusional. I'm sure even the original creators of D2 would say that it was broken and tacked on.
I'm not saying it wasn't fun at times.
Actually, one of the original D2 developers(schaeffer) said it was all intended(pk, the dueling, everything), i remember he got thoroughly flamed for it, lol.
D3 pvp is not that different from what D2 has, its blood moor with walls and a little more organized(with the ranking and such), from the videos i can say it plays the same as D2.
In fact, the most broken aspect of D2 is.. *gasp* pve itself, with all the mindless bosses runs and lvl 10's in hell, so broken that the most drastic changes in D3 are pve oriented and to prevent any kind of rushing, runs, etc.
Everyone had their fair share of running back to town after getting owned in a duel when they first started playing. After this they stopped running back because they realized gold isn't that important, and that they don't want to be frowned upon by the others.
This was very different in hardcore. In many situations it was acceptable to run to safety because they know the consequences. It's much easier to take the flame than to lose your character.
So all pvp had to offer in terms of rules in D2 was the word of each dueler.
I'm glad for the change. Now these rules are enforced and we have an organized system.
If you watch the Q and A or any of the blizzcon...(if your a diablo fan idk why you wouldent...)but jay said him self that the PvP and PvM would not be anywhere near each other thats one of the biggest reasons why they did arena in the first place...
~Mike~
Try to watch the panel for a lot of these details which would clear up this whole debate.
If one presented the the two pvp systems to someone that has played neither of the games (and thus isn't biased) then it's obvious which one would be preferred.
Right, now you're just scrambling for more reasons to try defend D2. There really is no need, it has already been established - by about 90% of fans since we still have the nostalgics to deal with - that the arena is the better system.
Manually used health potion compared to run over health globes that instantly heal?
I agree that Diablo is PVE, but it's also nice to see they try to implement some PVP into it. If you watched the Q&A or have read about it (or watched it on youtube after the actual panel), or even talked to someone about it you'd know it won't affect PVE at all.
I sure do like this kind of thing. I liked playing wow arena to some extent, and I also like playing Bloodline Champions, which is a game dedicated entirely to pvp in that kind of format. So I welcome this with open arms! It's not gonna be balanced, but it's a fun feature and I hope to enjoy playing it with my friends against randoms and have just as much fun as playing PVE.
I did not forget rejuvination potions which again, were manually used, it was very simple and easy to say don't use them. To say don't move your character over in that direction to not heal is a whole different animal. We would have to cut off a good portion of the arena to even achieve that which is stupid, if you fail to see this then again I repeat, refrain from quoting me because you simply cannot compete.
Also you ever hunt someone down in D2? Yea they are trapped but how hard is it to run and wait for a health globe to get full life? What if its a DH or a wizard...hmm they can still attack you and if you are a barb you can't just camp the globes cause you risk dying...so thus again we reward the player who should of lost for running, if anything I say if the player heals and still loses his game should just auto uninstall and his gear should shower off his character or he should be forced to always PvE cause he simply cannot handle PvP.
So you say what if the runner is a wizard or demon hunter and the chaser is a barb. I guess you're not aware of how some of the spells are going to work in D3. The melee classes have all been given more range skills to use, and you can't use teleport and such indefinitely.
So I ask you, if you think it's not possible for a barb to catch a wizard in an arena when the wizard can't use teleport non-stop, then what hope did the barb have in catching a wizard in d2? You don't seem to be complaining about this.
He can camp it. There is a wall in the way, and if the wizard wants any hope in getting in view of the barb then you would have to get closer, which defeats the purpose of running.
And we haven't even played it yet so I think this is enough of the scepticism already.
Finally, look at point 3 again in my previous post. *and refrain from quoting me coz im too cool*
I must have played over 40 rounds of the Barbarian PvP and yes at first it does feel like you're getting tooled around by Wizards because of their ranged skills and mobility, but the Barb has so many gap-closers that it never felt like an impossible match. I think Blizz was very deliberate about showing that off since they gave the demo Barb: Chain Spear, Leap Attack, Sprint, and Ground Stomp. 4 of the 7 skills were all designed to keep your opponent from running from you, not to mention the effects of the runes aiding that situation too. Also everything has a cooldown, so teleport isn't spammable.