Maybe a better death penalty would be a debuff, like D&D style games. But instead of decreased levels you got a debuff that decrease your EXP, Gold and Drop ratings.
You know, DII corpse runs are starting to sound pretty good in light of your horrid suggestions...
Maybe you can unlock certain achievments by not dying (for those who dont want to venture into hardcore mode) that's one way of giving you a reason to be more carefull. Also perhaps you could recieve experience bonuses for not dying between certain waypoints. Just a passing thought :whistling:
Maybe you can unlock certain achievments by not dying (for those who dont want to venture into hardcore mode) that's one way of giving you a reason to be more carefull. Also perhaps you could recieve experience bonuses for not dying between certain waypoints. Just a passing thought :whistling:
Both good ideas. In fact the xp bonus has been done in other games. Sacred2? I don't remember for sure. Anyways you got a bonus that increased to a certain max as long as you didn't die. It may have also affected other things than xp, like resistance. If they implement this though, I hope they keep it minor. Just enough to make it worthwhile.
Achievements linked to survival are also a very good idea. Like that you get to play like in hardcore without running the risk of actually losing your char.
Yeah SII actually had this thing called Survival Bonus... it improved your stats and MF and it was percentage based, increasing when you were in battle, dropping to 0 if you died.
Say you worked your way up to a chest, and it had the greatest weapon ever. You kill some stuff, oops big monster killed me. Shit I didn't save or I didn't get to the checkpoint yet... Now I'm dead and lost the weapon I got earlier.
Okay, then. How about just losing stuff you definitely CAN replace -- i.e. the experience and money you've gained in the interim, and anything that's a guaranteed find or drop? Of course, the prospect of losing more substantial things (like the unique weapon you mentioned) could just give you more incentive to save often, not to mention some serious motivation not get yourself killed in the first place.
Yes, losing experience and gold is fine. That is what they did in D2. But this is a new game and as they have mentioned, gold is going to be much more important then it was in D2. But it would still be an OK penalty.
And also, the point of the game (to me) is..
1. Storyline
2. Gear
Having one of the main reasons I play taken away from me when I die would be ridiculous. Let's save that for the hardcore mode. Which is even more harsh, but understandable. Hardcore is Hardcore for a reason.
And oman, lets not even talk about computer glitch problems.
Yes, losing experience and gold is fine. That is what they did in D2. But this is a new game and as they have mentioned, gold is going to be much more important then it was in D2. But it would still be an OK penalty.
And also, the point of the game (to me) is..
1. Storyline
2. Gear
Having one of the main reasons I play taken away from me when I die would be ridiculous. Let's save that for the hardcore mode. Which is even more harsh, but understandable. Hardcore is Hardcore for a reason.
And oman, lets not even talk about computer glitch problems.
But we should be encouraging tactical gameplay. If there is no penalty in dying then I can see everyone becoming a mindless drone just spamming their spells and once it gets tough, you can throw yourself at the enemy like a kamikaze, take a few with you, and then when you return it won't be as hard to get through that mob.
I guess because I've been playing hardcore recently, that this whining of losing a little gold is getting to me. After playing hardcore for a bit, then going back to softcore, I was shocked at how recklessly people threw themselves into the creeps. In short, you're more alert and play more tactically when the stakes are high. If you have nothing to lose, why should you bother to think about dodging a missile?
In D2, the gold death penalty made collecting large amounts of gold unappealing. After I had enough gold to resurrect my mercenary a couple times, buy some pots and repair my equipment, gold seemingly lost its value. Why would I waste my time picking up extra gold when the gold death penalty was based on a percentage of my gold, representing an increasingly large amount of work picking the gold up? It didn't make sense to put in the extra work when it could easily be taken away.
Collecting large amounts of gold (while mostly useless) was only unappealing for those that died often. In the same regard, it would be futile to "collect" experience since when you died you would lose a percentage based on the experience you already had towards the next level. The gold is pretty much the same, you need to collect enough to afford that new item you want, and if you die in the meantime then your stockpile drops a bit, forcing you to build back up - similarly you needed to reach the next level to clear your experience and stop losing it.
If there was no punishment for death, once you reach the top level then it's smooth sailing from there. You've completed the game and now it's just a run to gather more and more loot. We need gold sinks, and since the death cut would be based on a percentage of what you already have on you then the rich risk losing more.
In pretty much every game ever they've had a death penalty more similar to this new setup, ie going back to a checkpoint. That doesn't make it so you want to die, or are more reckless, because losing progress towards your goal is usually enough of a penalty. Considering how valuable gold seems to be, losing a good chunk of gold when you die would be more than enough incentive to not die, especially since you have to run back. In WoW (forgive me for bringing it up), they give you 10% durability damage every time you die and believe me, it adds up. It can almost, or in some cases completely, bankrupt you after successive deaths. So it is a pretty substantial punishment just to lose gold when gold is something you actually want to hold on to.
Oh and also, losing experience immediately puts a substantial punishment on anyone who dies. Even if its your first death on the character and you're almost done with the game on normal, its still going to suck to lose experience. But with gold, I doubt one death is going to matter a whole lot. But if you die a lot, its still a huge impact on upgrading your artisans and the like. So it makes it so that the death penalty isn't really something good players have to fret about, or maybe itll suck a little bit but you wont feel long term repercussions, as you can get that gold back quickly. But if you suck and die 10 times on the same creature halfway through normal, then you're going to be way far behind someone who has only suffered a gold loss once from dying.
I think the achievement system can take care of death easily. Since the appeal of harcore is to beat the game and get the "Guardian" title, why not get rid of hardcore mode and just give titles based on beating the game without dying?
There could be a multitude of achievements for beating the game without dying, in single player, in multi player, never using a potion, etc.
I also really like the idea of not dying between checkpoints giving a bonus. If I knew that everytime I passed a checkpoint without dying I got 10% more damage or increased magic find I would play slower and more carefully. To me, the loss of damage and or magic find would be worse than death!
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Adding achievements still wouldn't totally replace HC though. Most HC players also like the feeling that their character will actually be permanently dead when it dies. Plus, hardcore comes with other differences too. For example, normally (= without dupes etc) the economy is different on hardcore: less high end items (they often get lost when characters die) and some items are way more valuable than in softcore.
So I hope achievements will encourage trying to stay alive, but not to replace HC all together.
I think the achievement system can take care of death easily. Since the appeal of harcore is to beat the game and get the "Guardian" title, why not get rid of hardcore mode and just give titles based on beating the game without dying?
There could be a multitude of achievements for beating the game without dying, in single player, in multi player, never using a potion, etc.
To me that is not the appeal of Hardcore to get an achievement. Hardcore means to me that if the characters dies once that I can not play that character again and must start over again. I could do a personal wipe after each character death. I have played in tourneys for D2 mods that made softcore players play like it was a Hardcore character since many players may still want to play the character after death but the character would be considered RIP in the tourney at the time of death.
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To me, not dying when I know dying won't be a big deal is pretty interesting, perhaps more so, then not dying in Hardcore (where you go to safe measures such as special builds, potions, etc., to not die).
Adding achievements still wouldn't totally replace HC though. Most HC players also like the feeling that their character will actually be permanently dead when it dies. Plus, hardcore comes with other differences too. For example, normally (= without dupes etc) the economy is different on hardcore: less high end items (they often get lost when characters die) and some items are way more valuable than in softcore.
So I hope achievements will encourage trying to stay alive, but not to replace HC all together.
Seriously, you can't count only on people's ego.
I just miss the time were finish the game was a challenge, death could actually make you don't finish the game and see the ending was a reward, not something that is guaranted in the moment you bought the game.
Err, if you want a game where finishing means something, do not look at Diablo, because past DI, it didn't mean anything because this is a farming game.
Err, if you want a game where finishing means something, do not look at Diablo, because past DI, it didn't mean anything because this is a farming game.
Hmm..
Not for me. Diablo was never a farming game for me. If D3 will be strictally a farming game, i will surely be dispointed.
I mean, you finished Diablo on Normal you're done lol.
Because i play single player and my goal is too build new characters and see if they can beat hell. And sometimes i play HC or even a solo iron man to see how far i can get.
I never really farmed beyond what i actually needed. In my MP times, i didn't really farmed at all. I focused more on the PvP aspect and only farmed when i truelly needed too. But since drop rates on D2 are very high (before runeword era) and many craft/rare stuff were alot better then uniques, with 1 or 2 days farming and a couple of good deals allowed me too build a decent pvp toon.
And sometimes i play HC or even a solo iron man to see how far i can get.
Self-created difficulty is independent of the difficulty of the game. How's that relevant?
How many people like you are out there, anyway? DIII is aiming at a rather massive market and most of that market, to my knowledge, are heavy farmers who do 300 Baal runs every day. Drastically decreasing the amount of people who are able to finish the game is not good for business lol.
And sometimes i play HC or even a solo iron man to see how far i can get.
Self-created difficulty is independent of the difficulty of the game. How's that relevant?
It isn't. Still iron man is just a very small part of the game for me.
How many people like you are out there, anyway? DIII is aiming at a rather massive market and most of that market, to my knowledge, are heavy farmers who do 300 Baal runs every day. Drastically decreasing the amount of people who are able to finish the game is not good for business lol.
I dont think the market are composed of Baal runners. Seriously, the amount of D2 players at the moment are good for a 10+ years game, but are minimal in terms of expected value of sales.
I believe they are aiming for the traditional PC player who plays RPG/adventurers. I don't think those people like farming. The prove is how unsucefull farm based mmorpg are nowdays. The mmorpg that use more of the wow concept (quests + dungeons groups) have much better results. Look at FFXIV. People on this side of the planet hated it because the game refuses to give you tons of quests as a background to kill monsters - you just have to go out there and start to farm stuff for no reason.
I kno D3 is not a mmorpg, but seriously, I'm quite sure D3 and mmorpg are substitute goods.
Diablo III and a MMO substitute goods? lol
I don't think we can continue this discussion because I strongly disagree with that statement, Diablo and MMO's have nothing in common...
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Achievements linked to survival are also a very good idea. Like that you get to play like in hardcore without running the risk of actually losing your char.
And also, the point of the game (to me) is..
1. Storyline
2. Gear
Having one of the main reasons I play taken away from me when I die would be ridiculous. Let's save that for the hardcore mode. Which is even more harsh, but understandable. Hardcore is Hardcore for a reason.
And oman, lets not even talk about computer glitch problems.
But we should be encouraging tactical gameplay. If there is no penalty in dying then I can see everyone becoming a mindless drone just spamming their spells and once it gets tough, you can throw yourself at the enemy like a kamikaze, take a few with you, and then when you return it won't be as hard to get through that mob.
I guess because I've been playing hardcore recently, that this whining of losing a little gold is getting to me. After playing hardcore for a bit, then going back to softcore, I was shocked at how recklessly people threw themselves into the creeps. In short, you're more alert and play more tactically when the stakes are high. If you have nothing to lose, why should you bother to think about dodging a missile?
Collecting large amounts of gold (while mostly useless) was only unappealing for those that died often. In the same regard, it would be futile to "collect" experience since when you died you would lose a percentage based on the experience you already had towards the next level. The gold is pretty much the same, you need to collect enough to afford that new item you want, and if you die in the meantime then your stockpile drops a bit, forcing you to build back up - similarly you needed to reach the next level to clear your experience and stop losing it.
If there was no punishment for death, once you reach the top level then it's smooth sailing from there. You've completed the game and now it's just a run to gather more and more loot. We need gold sinks, and since the death cut would be based on a percentage of what you already have on you then the rich risk losing more.
Oh and also, losing experience immediately puts a substantial punishment on anyone who dies. Even if its your first death on the character and you're almost done with the game on normal, its still going to suck to lose experience. But with gold, I doubt one death is going to matter a whole lot. But if you die a lot, its still a huge impact on upgrading your artisans and the like. So it makes it so that the death penalty isn't really something good players have to fret about, or maybe itll suck a little bit but you wont feel long term repercussions, as you can get that gold back quickly. But if you suck and die 10 times on the same creature halfway through normal, then you're going to be way far behind someone who has only suffered a gold loss once from dying.
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There could be a multitude of achievements for beating the game without dying, in single player, in multi player, never using a potion, etc.
I also really like the idea of not dying between checkpoints giving a bonus. If I knew that everytime I passed a checkpoint without dying I got 10% more damage or increased magic find I would play slower and more carefully. To me, the loss of damage and or magic find would be worse than death!
So I hope achievements will encourage trying to stay alive, but not to replace HC all together.
To me that is not the appeal of Hardcore to get an achievement. Hardcore means to me that if the characters dies once that I can not play that character again and must start over again. I could do a personal wipe after each character death. I have played in tourneys for D2 mods that made softcore players play like it was a Hardcore character since many players may still want to play the character after death but the character would be considered RIP in the tourney at the time of death.
To me, not dying when I know dying won't be a big deal is pretty interesting, perhaps more so, then not dying in Hardcore (where you go to safe measures such as special builds, potions, etc., to not die).
Seriously, you can't count only on people's ego.
I just miss the time were finish the game was a challenge, death could actually make you don't finish the game and see the ending was a reward, not something that is guaranted in the moment you bought the game.
Hmm..
Not for me. Diablo was never a farming game for me. If D3 will be strictally a farming game, i will surely be dispointed.
I mean, you finished Diablo on Normal you're done lol.
Because i play single player and my goal is too build new characters and see if they can beat hell. And sometimes i play HC or even a solo iron man to see how far i can get.
I never really farmed beyond what i actually needed. In my MP times, i didn't really farmed at all. I focused more on the PvP aspect and only farmed when i truelly needed too. But since drop rates on D2 are very high (before runeword era) and many craft/rare stuff were alot better then uniques, with 1 or 2 days farming and a couple of good deals allowed me too build a decent pvp toon.
How many people like you are out there, anyway? DIII is aiming at a rather massive market and most of that market, to my knowledge, are heavy farmers who do 300 Baal runs every day. Drastically decreasing the amount of people who are able to finish the game is not good for business lol.
It isn't. Still iron man is just a very small part of the game for me.
I dont think the market are composed of Baal runners. Seriously, the amount of D2 players at the moment are good for a 10+ years game, but are minimal in terms of expected value of sales.
I believe they are aiming for the traditional PC player who plays RPG/adventurers. I don't think those people like farming. The prove is how unsucefull farm based mmorpg are nowdays. The mmorpg that use more of the wow concept (quests + dungeons groups) have much better results. Look at FFXIV. People on this side of the planet hated it because the game refuses to give you tons of quests as a background to kill monsters - you just have to go out there and start to farm stuff for no reason.
I kno D3 is not a mmorpg, but seriously, I'm quite sure D3 and mmorpg are substitute goods.
I don't think we can continue this discussion because I strongly disagree with that statement, Diablo and MMO's have nothing in common...