I dont know about you guys, whether you guys actually find this a problem or not? But when i seen some of the E3 previews of D3, something was brought to my attention a little more then most things.
How the potions work. Instead of buying physical potions to keep stocked up in your inventory and use when required, the monster's drop those little orbs and they then replenish hp/mana once selected/pickedup.
Does anyone else disagree with this new type of system, or is this type of a change a positive one?
* my apologies if this has already been brought to discussion *
luls @ your location, but yea this has been brought up a bunch a while ago but never hurts to re-address it again.
the orbs do give it a really arcadey feeling but it's either have spammable potions with no CD, or a pretty short CD (that will just take you out of the game because people will sit there and wait for their potions to come off CD) or the orbs. So it's actually not a bad system I think, it works for diablo. A shit load better then there health regeneration idea of when you sat idle..
BTW are they having potions in D3 with long cool downs on them? Like a minute or two?
I think I'll like the change. I hated the monsters being focused on 1 or 2 hit kills instead of wearing you down. A short cooldown isn't really good in my opinion as shown in Titan Quest. It basically just made it so if you were hurt you'd run around like an idiot waiting for the the potion to recharge and just resulted in slow potion chugging(if that makes sense).
I actually tried playing D2 without potions to see how it might work. I made a charm for a character that reduced the amount of damage received(to null the 1-hit-kills) and gave a fairly high amount health after each kill(along with some other changes).
Because of the way the monsters were set up it never really worked that well and I had to re-balance things every few levels, but it was promising. The game was certainly more fun in a way without potion chugging, even if the balancing side of it never quite worked right in my little experiment.
Playing D2 was like... i kill monsters, hey i ran out of potions, lets kill a monster cuz it might drop a potions. A monster drops a potion, i pick it up and use it.
Thats exactly the same as health globes, but in d2 you have to pick them up, and use them.
they then replenish hp/mana once selected/pickedup.
Replenish only HP, and I think a WDs skill make replenish mana... And since each class have something different from mana, orb haven't sense to replenish "mana" for every class because every class mana system work differently.
Quote from "Gulliver" »
Health orbs do seem kinda silly to me. But im too lazy to care anymore and I can't even come up with a better idea
Why do you find it silly ??
I don't see a single negative point !! Only good !!
Health orbs + Potions (with a cooldown) are pretty awesome. I mean I can't think of a better way to give the player a challenge or give them the ability to think strategically.
Monster A is a weakling that drops Orbs 40% of the time when hit and 80% orb drop when kill -
Monster B Is a tough guy that drops orbs 5% of the time when hit and 90% of the time when killed -
Monster C is medium difficulty to kill but drops orbs 100% of the time when killed but none when being hit -
Who do I attack and kill first? Do I have enough health to take out the big guy, do I need more HP and need to take out the little weakling guys first?
Bashiok on Blizzcast 13 about the different "resource" system for each class
"The witch doctor is probably the most solid which probably makes sense because he’s using mana. But we don't have mana potions so we need to work on his recovery of mana. So he has, some people might have seen soul harvest as one of those at BlizzCon and that might be part of a larger group of recovery systems."
No resource recovery potions. Maybe health potions. Maybe...
Imo the best way to add health potion in the health globe context is add a limied number of potions you can carry indepedent of the inventory. Something like 4 potions. So you don't have to add a cooldown to limit it's uses. At this extends potions should't be potions anymore. Maybe something like a special vial that can carry health-orb like material.
I think hearing most of you are looking forward to this new system is quite dissapointing. I think we forget with Diablo 2, yes, we could always cap ourselves out with potions, but it actually required some skill involved. Pvping etc, how the fuck is that going to work? Orbs come flying outa people as you hit em? (that shit just doesnt make sense)
How do you balance the amount of orb drops? Whats to say there isnt an orb drop when required? then we die because.. what? no orbs dropped. (pretty lame in my opinion) not only this but how are orbs going to be obtained during boss fights?
or what? Design the bosses so they're defeatable without obtaining orbs?
thanks everyone for making me feel alone with my thoughts. :'(
[COLOR=white]How do you balance the amount of orb drops? Whats to say there isnt an orb drop when required? then we die because.. what? no orbs dropped. (pretty lame in my opinion)[/COLOR]
Well that's when you use a potion. If those instances are occurring too often, your character probably isn't strong enough for the area.
From what I've seen in most games using health pickups dropped by killing enemies, the "oh crap I need health" scenarios that lead to frantically trying to kill any enemies that may drop health before being mauled are fun. Getting that health pick up can be a huge relief when it does drop and if you do die, at least it was more interesting than in D2 where you often just had the bad luck of being hit once or twice and taken out from full health.
Quote from "Romantix" »
not only this but how are orbs going to be obtained during boss fights? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=white]or what? Design the bosses so they're defeatable without obtaining orbs? [/COLOR]
Bosses that don't require healing would suck. Luckily it isn't too hard for them to design some source of health during a boss fight, just about every game using health pick ups in the past has managed after all. The boss could spew some weaker minions from time to time, there could be some breakable bit in the level that drops health now and then or the boss could just drop some after you deliver a particularly nasty blow.
I don't think boss fights should be a problem. In fact, they should be better than before where you had to use a portal to refill your belt with potions for chugging or run around with your inventory open.
Quote from "Romantix" »
[COLOR=white]thanks everyone for making me feel alone with my thoughts. :'([/COLOR]
Oh don't feel alone, there have been plenty who have complained about the health orb system. When it was first announced, I remember it being a source of quite a bit of debate. I think it's just that by now most people that didn't like it have either gotten used to the idea or grown tired of complaining about it.
I was a bit skeptical of it at first, but I always hated the way damage was dealt in D2(too many enemies that were either essentially harmless or instant death) and I suspect switching away from potion chugging may make it easier to remedy that balance issue. Also, when I did that little experiment I mentioned in my other post, I found that without potion chugging the game was much better in a way. I guess it just changes the way it plays.
Quote from "Gulliver" »
Seriously what is the scientific explanation for them to be there...
Video game, fantasy, Bashiok said, yadda yadda, blah blah and so on.
Nothing in video games makes sense or is supposed to make sense. All video games is playing someone else's imaginations. Unfortunately, there are some @#$%^& up people in this world, so.....yeah. Some things suck, some things rock. Fortunately for all of us, Blizzard seems to have the right balance of weirdness, imagination and work ethics. Which makes for pretty rockin' gaming experience. And wanton mayhem, slaughter and total bloody devastation.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Avast ye! Scyberdragon be te thank for the sig, arr!
"You're not alone! You got meh! XD I loved potions and I still believe that healing potions should be in D3 instead of those orbs."
Glad to hear that bro, we're now. dfan brothers.
@Stoaster: Quote: Originally Posted by Romantix How do you balance the amount of orb drops? Whats to say there isnt an orb drop when required? then we die because.. what? no orbs dropped. (pretty lame in my opinion)
Well that's when you use a potion. If those instances are occurring too often, your character probably isn't strong enough for the area.
So you're saying potions are obtainable throughout the game? ;o
"Luckily it isn't too hard for them to design some source of health during a boss fight, just about every game using health pick ups in the past has managed after all. The boss could spew some weaker minions from time to time, there could be some breakable bit in the level that drops health now and then or the boss could just drop some after you deliver a particularly nasty blow."
Good theory, I would like to think that would be correct, but I dont think Blizzard has designed all bosses to summon minions to fight for them. hehe but breakable bits, quite possibly.
I just somehow, cannot understand how they believe this is going to be effective. i am sure with enough feedback, we could get some traction on getting this point across to blizz.
POTIONS ARE FKN OLDSCHOOL THEY FUCKIN BELONG!!! IN EVERY RPG!!! GGGRRRRR!!! NONE OF THIS ORB SHIT!($&@#(*$@ (sorry, you must excuse my rage/frustration)
"I don't think boss fights should be a problem. In fact, they should be better than before where you had to use a portal to refill your belt with potions for chugging or run around with your inventory open."
I dont know about you, but this made it quite... mm... interesting. There was always a time you had run into a boss thinking you'd fuck shit up, forgetting to open a portal, forgetting to stockup on potions before running in. Having to walk the whole way back (yes this was painful, but it helped ensure you were always stockedup and ready to throw ports up when you enter fight). If they're developing some sort of system during boss fights to provide pots throughout the fight, this is going to make the game a breeze to smash through.
"Oh don't feel alone, there have been plenty who have complained about the health orb system"
Thanks for your sincerity
"I was a bit skeptical of it at first, but I always hated the way damage was dealt in D2(too many enemies that were either essentially harmless or instant death) and I suspect switching away from potion chugging may make it easier to remedy that balance issue."
Your not wrong here, Blizzard has successfully met my request by adding DAMAGE VALUE which will add a little more EXCITEMENT to the game i think. But i think D2 gameplay, story, skill tree's/stats was just... perfection (for a game of its time) Still till this day we get 8 of the boys to LAN it up and just start from scratch, fuckin everything up.
@CrazyCapnMorgan "Nothing in video games makes sense or is supposed to make sense. All video games is playing someone else's imaginations."
So you're saying potions are obtainable throughout the game? ;o
Indeed there is. From the WWI design panel:
WWI D3 Design Fundamentals panel
We haven't gotten rid of potions entirely; they're just less core of the game. We redesigned the health system. We tried a lot of ideas. We tried a Halo kind of shield system with a very quick regeneration, but it didn't give us the effect we wanted. It forced players to leave combat to recover health and we never want that. We always want the player moving forward, and we want the pace of play to be fast. No WoW system of stopping to drink potions after a fight. We view Diablo as a very fast paced active game. Little to no downtime is one of our goals.
The great thing about health globes that drop off of monsters when they die it encourages players to fight on, whether they're low or high on health. It creates positional gameplay where you need to consider the type of attack based on where you are positioned and where the monsters are located. Our health system forces the player to go someplace they don't want to go. "Oh no, I need to get that thing, but I have to get past 10 monsters to do it." It's really exciting.
Quote from "Romantix" »
Good theory, I would like to think that would be correct, but I dont think Blizzard has designed all bosses to summon minions to fight for them. hehe but breakable bits, quite possibly.
I just somehow, cannot understand how they believe this is going to be effective. i am sure with enough feedback, we could get some traction on getting this point across to blizz.
They are designing boss fights to give health orbs in a style that suits the boss.
Official Blizzard Quote:
As far as the original topic, when health globes could be delivered during a boss fight, there's really no limit for how they could be delivered. Take the King Leoric fight, they were delivered through creatures that he summoned, normal skeletons. Every boss could essentially have the same thing, normal enemies around him that can be killed for the potential at getting a health globe drop. Or, you could have something more interesting ... like a boss that does a special attack that has the ability to break open some large corpse storage tanks that are in his lair. The player has to lead the boss to the tank and try to invoke the special attack so he'll break the tank open, which unleashes some health globes. You could even treat the tank (code-wise) as a normal creature, meaning abilities and items could augment the number that drop and amount they heal, etc. giving some control to the individual player. If you don't need the health you can ignore the mechanic, but it could be a way for players to try to game the boss and make sure they can survive the fight. Totally hypothetical, we don't have a fight that resembles what I described, but it's a possible delivery system.
Quote from "Romantix" »
If they're developing some sort of system during boss fights to provide pots throughout the fight, this is going to make the game a breeze to smash through.
Obtaining the health orbs will be hard to begin with. It'll create tense moments, where you're down to a sliver of health and you have to risk your life to get that health orb you desperately need.
Pvping etc, how the fuck is that going to work? Orbs come flying outa people as you hit em? (that shit just doesnt make sense)
Only noobs use pots in PvP man The unwritten law is no pot chugging till you die. You can however take some just after killing someone tho, to not be half way outta life when dueling another guy who's life is 100%. (Or anyways that's how it always was when I played PvP)
Yeah I think the health globe idea is great. Will bring more action into the game. Only thing I don't like is the look of them.. and the sound when you pick it up (in the gameplay footage). But they said something about that, that they would change it to make it look cooler n stuff, so Im happy bout that
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Embrace this moment. Remember... We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
You! my friend. Are a gun! Many unanswered questions, answered. Guess a little research would have saved you the time, but i must admit i am a very busy man, i very much appreciate your response. Enjoy the weekend ahead of you/behind you (wherever the fuck you live...) lol
They still have potions, but they work more slowly. If you think the orbs take away from the believability of the game, imagine your character enhailing potions that instantly cleanse you of harm as fast as you press a button. I imagine thats the reason they tried to spread out the healing possibilities, that and bosses (with the issue of stacking tps and pots).
Only noobs use pots in PvP man The unwritten law is no pot chugging till you die. You can however take some just after killing someone tho, to not be half way outta life when dueling another guy who's life is 100%. (Or anyways that's how it always was when I played PvP)
This. Real duelers never use pots while in the middle of a duel. So no problems for pvp there.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
How the potions work. Instead of buying physical potions to keep stocked up in your inventory and use when required, the monster's drop those little orbs and they then replenish hp/mana once selected/pickedup.
Does anyone else disagree with this new type of system, or is this type of a change a positive one?
* my apologies if this has already been brought to discussion *
the orbs do give it a really arcadey feeling but it's either have spammable potions with no CD, or a pretty short CD (that will just take you out of the game because people will sit there and wait for their potions to come off CD) or the orbs. So it's actually not a bad system I think, it works for diablo. A shit load better then there health regeneration idea of when you sat idle..
BTW are they having potions in D3 with long cool downs on them? Like a minute or two?
♣Strength and Honor♣
I actually tried playing D2 without potions to see how it might work. I made a charm for a character that reduced the amount of damage received(to null the 1-hit-kills) and gave a fairly high amount health after each kill(along with some other changes).
Because of the way the monsters were set up it never really worked that well and I had to re-balance things every few levels, but it was promising. The game was certainly more fun in a way without potion chugging, even if the balancing side of it never quite worked right in my little experiment.
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Thats exactly the same as health globes, but in d2 you have to pick them up, and use them.
So its a good system. Actually, it rocks.
Replenish only HP, and I think a WDs skill make replenish mana... And since each class have something different from mana, orb haven't sense to replenish "mana" for every class because every class mana system work differently.
Why do you find it silly ??
I don't see a single negative point !! Only good !!
Monster A is a weakling that drops Orbs 40% of the time when hit and 80% orb drop when kill -
Monster B Is a tough guy that drops orbs 5% of the time when hit and 90% of the time when killed -
Monster C is medium difficulty to kill but drops orbs 100% of the time when killed but none when being hit -
Who do I attack and kill first? Do I have enough health to take out the big guy, do I need more HP and need to take out the little weakling guys first?
Lots of interesting choices.
"The witch doctor is probably the most solid which probably makes sense because he’s using mana. But we don't have mana potions so we need to work on his recovery of mana. So he has, some people might have seen soul harvest as one of those at BlizzCon and that might be part of a larger group of recovery systems."
Source:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/community/blizzcast/archive/episode13.html?rhtml=y
No resource recovery potions. Maybe health potions. Maybe...
Imo the best way to add health potion in the health globe context is add a limied number of potions you can carry indepedent of the inventory. Something like 4 potions. So you don't have to add a cooldown to limit it's uses. At this extends potions should't be potions anymore. Maybe something like a special vial that can carry health-orb like material.
I think hearing most of you are looking forward to this new system is quite dissapointing. I think we forget with Diablo 2, yes, we could always cap ourselves out with potions, but it actually required some skill involved. Pvping etc, how the fuck is that going to work? Orbs come flying outa people as you hit em? (that shit just doesnt make sense)
How do you balance the amount of orb drops? Whats to say there isnt an orb drop when required? then we die because.. what? no orbs dropped. (pretty lame in my opinion) not only this but how are orbs going to be obtained during boss fights?
or what? Design the bosses so they're defeatable without obtaining orbs?
thanks everyone for making me feel alone with my thoughts. :'(
Well that's when you use a potion. If those instances are occurring too often, your character probably isn't strong enough for the area.
From what I've seen in most games using health pickups dropped by killing enemies, the "oh crap I need health" scenarios that lead to frantically trying to kill any enemies that may drop health before being mauled are fun. Getting that health pick up can be a huge relief when it does drop and if you do die, at least it was more interesting than in D2 where you often just had the bad luck of being hit once or twice and taken out from full health.
Bosses that don't require healing would suck. Luckily it isn't too hard for them to design some source of health during a boss fight, just about every game using health pick ups in the past has managed after all. The boss could spew some weaker minions from time to time, there could be some breakable bit in the level that drops health now and then or the boss could just drop some after you deliver a particularly nasty blow.
I don't think boss fights should be a problem. In fact, they should be better than before where you had to use a portal to refill your belt with potions for chugging or run around with your inventory open.
Oh don't feel alone, there have been plenty who have complained about the health orb system. When it was first announced, I remember it being a source of quite a bit of debate. I think it's just that by now most people that didn't like it have either gotten used to the idea or grown tired of complaining about it.
I was a bit skeptical of it at first, but I always hated the way damage was dealt in D2(too many enemies that were either essentially harmless or instant death) and I suspect switching away from potion chugging may make it easier to remedy that balance issue. Also, when I did that little experiment I mentioned in my other post, I found that without potion chugging the game was much better in a way. I guess it just changes the way it plays.
Video game, fantasy, Bashiok said, yadda yadda, blah blah and so on.
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Avast ye! Scyberdragon be te thank for the sig, arr!
"You're not alone! You got meh! XD I loved potions and I still believe that healing potions should be in D3 instead of those orbs."
Glad to hear that bro, we're now. dfan brothers.
@Stoaster:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romantix
How do you balance the amount of orb drops? Whats to say there isnt an orb drop when required? then we die because.. what? no orbs dropped. (pretty lame in my opinion)
Well that's when you use a potion. If those instances are occurring too often, your character probably isn't strong enough for the area.
So you're saying potions are obtainable throughout the game? ;o
"Luckily it isn't too hard for them to design some source of health during a boss fight, just about every game using health pick ups in the past has managed after all. The boss could spew some weaker minions from time to time, there could be some breakable bit in the level that drops health now and then or the boss could just drop some after you deliver a particularly nasty blow."
Good theory, I would like to think that would be correct, but I dont think Blizzard has designed all bosses to summon minions to fight for them. hehe but breakable bits, quite possibly.
I just somehow, cannot understand how they believe this is going to be effective. i am sure with enough feedback, we could get some traction on getting this point across to blizz.
POTIONS ARE FKN OLDSCHOOL THEY FUCKIN BELONG!!! IN EVERY RPG!!! GGGRRRRR!!! NONE OF THIS ORB SHIT!($&@#(*$@ (sorry, you must excuse my rage/frustration)
"I don't think boss fights should be a problem. In fact, they should be better than before where you had to use a portal to refill your belt with potions for chugging or run around with your inventory open."
I dont know about you, but this made it quite... mm... interesting. There was always a time you had run into a boss thinking you'd fuck shit up, forgetting to open a portal, forgetting to stockup on potions before running in. Having to walk the whole way back (yes this was painful, but it helped ensure you were always stockedup and ready to throw ports up when you enter fight). If they're developing some sort of system during boss fights to provide pots throughout the fight, this is going to make the game a breeze to smash through.
"Oh don't feel alone, there have been plenty who have complained about the health orb system"
Thanks for your sincerity
"I was a bit skeptical of it at first, but I always hated the way damage was dealt in D2(too many enemies that were either essentially harmless or instant death) and I suspect switching away from potion chugging may make it easier to remedy that balance issue."
Your not wrong here, Blizzard has successfully met my request by adding DAMAGE VALUE which will add a little more EXCITEMENT to the game i think. But i think D2 gameplay, story, skill tree's/stats was just... perfection (for a game of its time) Still till this day we get 8 of the boys to LAN it up and just start from scratch, fuckin everything up.
@CrazyCapnMorgan
"Nothing in video games makes sense or is supposed to make sense. All video games is playing someone else's imaginations."
How Dare You! It all makes sense to me.. gtfo.
They are designing boss fights to give health orbs in a style that suits the boss.
Official Blizzard Quote:
As far as the original topic, when health globes could be delivered during a boss fight, there's really no limit for how they could be delivered. Take the King Leoric fight, they were delivered through creatures that he summoned, normal skeletons. Every boss could essentially have the same thing, normal enemies around him that can be killed for the potential at getting a health globe drop. Or, you could have something more interesting ... like a boss that does a special attack that has the ability to break open some large corpse storage tanks that are in his lair. The player has to lead the boss to the tank and try to invoke the special attack so he'll break the tank open, which unleashes some health globes. You could even treat the tank (code-wise) as a normal creature, meaning abilities and items could augment the number that drop and amount they heal, etc. giving some control to the individual player. If you don't need the health you can ignore the mechanic, but it could be a way for players to try to game the boss and make sure they can survive the fight. Totally hypothetical, we don't have a fight that resembles what I described, but it's a possible delivery system.
Join the chat!
Only noobs use pots in PvP man The unwritten law is no pot chugging till you die. You can however take some just after killing someone tho, to not be half way outta life when dueling another guy who's life is 100%. (Or anyways that's how it always was when I played PvP)
Yeah I think the health globe idea is great. Will bring more action into the game. Only thing I don't like is the look of them.. and the sound when you pick it up (in the gameplay footage). But they said something about that, that they would change it to make it look cooler n stuff, so Im happy bout that
Embrace this moment. Remember...
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
The healing potions will have a cooldown-type mechanic associated with them.
D2 is pretty easy you just need a timing to take your potion, the only way you die is when monsters kill faster than pot heal, and it's happen rarely.
I think Blizzard implement orb to prevent to always return in town. It's enough to explain this feature to be !!
You! my friend. Are a gun! Many unanswered questions, answered. Guess a little research would have saved you the time, but i must admit i am a very busy man, i very much appreciate your response. Enjoy the weekend ahead of you/behind you (wherever the fuck you live...) lol
Join the chat!
This. Real duelers never use pots while in the middle of a duel. So no problems for pvp there.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
This ^^ Using a pot in the middle of a duel = immediate disqualification