Funny how everyone has no problem using UI addons in World of Warcraft, but if you use one in Diablo 3 you are some horrific cheater destroying the game and should be perma banned. THUD only displays information that is already available to all users in a more readable way. Nothing more. It's no different than WoW addons such as DeadlyBossMods, _NPCscan, Gladius, etc. Sure "technically" it's against TOS, yet blizz has done nothing about it since it's inception so at this time I don't consider that a valid argument.
Funny how everyone has no problem using UI addons in World of Warcraft, but if you use one in Diablo 3 you are some horrific cheater destroying the game and should be perma banned. THUD only displays information that is already available to all users in a more readable way. Nothing more. It's no different than WoW addons such as DeadlyBossMods, _NPCscan, Gladius, etc. Sure "technically" it's against TOS, yet blizz has done nothing about it since it's inception so at this time I don't consider that a valid argument.
It's not the same as WoW addons, since WoW addons use an LUA interface specifically made for such extensions and Blizzard decides how much those addons are allowed to do.
THUD is neither intended by devs, nor controlled. It doesn't use an official port to the game.
I never said it did, but it accomplishes same results. Showing information already available to the player in a more user friendly way.
Lots of players supported some THud features, but mostagreed that the "maphack" aspect of it hurt the competitive part of D3 (even though some people really defended that too). In the end, in most discussions, people were divided about whether or not it could even be considered cheating.
In the end, in most discussions, the cheaters defended their cheating. No reasonable argument was ever presented that THUD in any way was not a cheat.
Lots of players supported some THud features, but mostagreed that the "maphack" aspect of it hurt the competitive part of D3 (even though some people really defended that too). In the end, in most discussions, people were divided about whether or not it could even be considered cheating.
In the end, in most discussions, the cheaters defended their cheating. No reasonable argument was ever presented that THUD in any way was not a cheat.
Zero summarized what the gist of previous discussions of THUD was - and it was indeed split. I'd like to remind you that if you look at the forum rules, we specifically say that we don't condone any usage or distribution of third party tools. We moderate any attempts to do so pretty harsh (for example, in this thread one individual thought it would be okay to post links to a map hack tool). The reason why we allow the discussion of THUD is simply because the official forums do so to. There are 2000+ posts containing thud/turbohud, so there is no reason to not allow the discussion here. Thankfully, from now on it looks like this will be past tense.
Also, I'd like to further remind you that in past discussions usually after closing the thread a moderator added a note that warned everyone of using such tools (for example here). You're right in your assessment that cheaters defend cheating in those threads, but you also seem to forget that there's something called freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how dumb (or in your view "wrong") this opinion might seem. We as moderators can only judge one thing: is the post in accordance to forum rules. If that's the case, then there's nothing we can do about it, as much as you might dislike that. Everyone is free to say "I like cheating": while I disagree with that, it's freedom of speech and his/her right to say something like that. Just because that person doesn't present a reason for why THUD is no cheat *in your eyes* doesn't invalidate his opinion - because it's an opinion, not a fact. And yes, mods also have an opinion (and when we share that, it does not reflect the stance of DFans on a certain matter).
who cares, for now, it's no longer in use by many people because the author let it dies, can you just please do the same and be done with this topic? :\
@North: Stacking twisters is not illegal or "exploiting". If it was, Blizzard would've fixed it in 2.4.1 (and not just slightly nerf the Twister sword, and re-buff to make sure it doesn't become useless). Sticky Twisters are no exploit.
Contrary to what you say, THUD was illegal. The creator said so himself, and the ToS is pretty clear about it: reading information from Diablo's memory is illegal and a bannable offense.
You also can't compare the scenario to WoW, as mods in WoW are allowed (and actually supported by Blizzard), whereas modding Diablo in any way is strictly forbiddden by Blizzard.
Truth be told this is not the correct place to discuss morality of THUD since the majority here are too inclined to deem it a cheap despite being fine with the wizard energy twister meta that exploits an unintended game mechanic, i.e. tornadoes being stuck in corners. Clearly not how the skill was designed.
THUD did nothing illegal, it simply reads the information being fed to your client, the "map hack" is the same result you get when you hook up your game to a multi-monitor setup.
I'm not trying to justify the THUD users but it's more legit than botting the game since these people are still playing the actual game and they are still being gated by the paragon requirements like everyone else. TBH it's very reminiscent of WoW -> everyone is using addons but not everyone is good at the game.
THUD is still an unfair advantage but think about this: the fairness of someone who can get to paragon 1000 and someone who can get to 2400, in the end of the day: this and a lot of RNG decides the outcome.
As an avid crack smoker i dont think its bad compared to pcp/heroin, should be legal since there are worse things out there.
Lots of people smoke the stuff, that makes it ok doesnt it?
Honestly, if you cant cant differentiate between what bliizard puts in the game and what you put in the game, there is no hope
THUD does more than showing information already available...
It can only show info that the servers is already sending to you. Its not a full map reveal with all monsters/pylons like some ppl think.
The map exploration part can be done from memory by most experienced players even, the layouts aren't that different..
I've tried it. It's mandatory for serious business GR progression, for sure, but that's only because everybody in top1000 uses it
no im not. Just because you are a cheater, it dosnt mean that every one whos better than you is a cheater
I have multiple times been in Top 200 on the Leaderboards, with mediocre Paragons. I never ever even googled for TurboHud - it get's mentioned here enough.
I sadly don't have a group to push for higher any season, so I just (mainly) solo my way to the stash tab (usually I finish the Season Journey completely).
However, I obviously can stand a lot, I'm playing The Division now mainly, and that game is so obviously cheater infested that it hurts...
Nope, any program manipulating the game is a cheat, regardless of the users preferance of calling it UI modifications or addons.
It does not manipulate the game, its just reading whats going on within the game and showing it on the screen, just like WoW addons. Map part is using prediction system and its not always correct.
I'm gonna try my best to NOT derail this into a mortality issue, but please show a little more credit and appreciation towards THUD's author. What that program does is not easy at all and requires a lot of dedication and man hours. Shouting "YES IM SO GLAD HE FAILED HAHAHA!" is very disrespectful to someone's work, regardless of the morality of that work.
"...regardless of the morality of that work"?! Hmmm That is scary. Thinking about good examples in human history...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Truth is like a lion. Don't try to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself" Augustine of Hippo
As long as Blizzard prefers a bare UI, there is always going to be a demand from players for THUD, or features that THUD has. Even though there has been improvements in the UI since the recent patches, these improvements are pretty much half-hearted. To date, there is no easy way to look into one's inventory and see which are ancients, and which are not. There is also no way to see if an item is cubed unless you mouseover each item, and stare at a shaded small dot beside the orange legendary affix of that item. The buff bar still does not give cooldown numbers of skills, just this analog timer that can be seen at the top of edge of the skill bar (in this age of digital information, why go analog?). And to date, the location of my buffs in the buff bar still changes too much that I cannot keep track of the buffs that I really care about -- I just want my COE or F/R buffs in a single location, not changing all the time, darn it.
I can live without the stupid map hack, which I turn off because of my ethics on that issue -- but the other features of THUD are QoL changes that are must-haves, frequently requested in PTR, and only SLOWLY adapted in a half-assed sort of way. I would not be surprised if the reason the changes to the buff and skill bar and item tooltips happened PRIMARILY because players like me demanded them so that we don't have to use THUD for them.
I say if Blizzard cannot incorporate these QoL changes into the UI, addons should be allowed on Diablo 3 in a controlled manner, and endorsed on a case to case basis. I want to play rifts and GRs, not stash and inventory tetris half the time.
I see a bunch of bad analogies and straw men throughout the thread.
Botting and thud are not the same.
They may fall into similiar categories and may warrant the same treatment from your view.
I don't agree with using the Eula / tos as an argument nor agree that they deserve the same treatment.
The way people approach thud is neither right or wrong but a matter of opinion as mentioned by the mods. Ultimately, whatever Blizzard has thought about it is the law of the land. Until now, speculation is that it has been allowed.
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Curse PremiumFunny how everyone has no problem using UI addons in World of Warcraft, but if you use one in Diablo 3 you are some horrific cheater destroying the game and should be perma banned. THUD only displays information that is already available to all users in a more readable way. Nothing more. It's no different than WoW addons such as DeadlyBossMods, _NPCscan, Gladius, etc. Sure "technically" it's against TOS, yet blizz has done nothing about it since it's inception so at this time I don't consider that a valid argument.
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Curse PremiumIn the end, in most discussions, the cheaters defended their cheating. No reasonable argument was ever presented that THUD in any way was not a cheat.
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ModeratorAlso, I'd like to further remind you that in past discussions usually after closing the thread a moderator added a note that warned everyone of using such tools (for example here). You're right in your assessment that cheaters defend cheating in those threads, but you also seem to forget that there's something called freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how dumb (or in your view "wrong") this opinion might seem. We as moderators can only judge one thing: is the post in accordance to forum rules. If that's the case, then there's nothing we can do about it, as much as you might dislike that. Everyone is free to say "I like cheating": while I disagree with that, it's freedom of speech and his/her right to say something like that. Just because that person doesn't present a reason for why THUD is no cheat *in your eyes* doesn't invalidate his opinion - because it's an opinion, not a fact. And yes, mods also have an opinion (and when we share that, it does not reflect the stance of DFans on a certain matter).
who cares, for now, it's no longer in use by many people because the author let it dies, can you just please do the same and be done with this topic? :\
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Moderator@North: Stacking twisters is not illegal or "exploiting". If it was, Blizzard would've fixed it in 2.4.1 (and not just slightly nerf the Twister sword, and re-buff to make sure it doesn't become useless). Sticky Twisters are no exploit.
Contrary to what you say, THUD was illegal. The creator said so himself, and the ToS is pretty clear about it: reading information from Diablo's memory is illegal and a bannable offense.
You also can't compare the scenario to WoW, as mods in WoW are allowed (and actually supported by Blizzard), whereas modding Diablo in any way is strictly forbiddden by Blizzard.
As an avid crack smoker i dont think its bad compared to pcp/heroin, should be legal since there are worse things out there.
Lots of people smoke the stuff, that makes it ok doesnt it?
Honestly, if you cant cant differentiate between what bliizard puts in the game and what you put in the game, there is no hope
The map exploration part can be done from memory by most experienced players even, the layouts aren't that different..
I sadly don't have a group to push for higher any season, so I just (mainly) solo my way to the stash tab (usually I finish the Season Journey completely).
However, I obviously can stand a lot, I'm playing The Division now mainly, and that game is so obviously cheater infested that it hurts...
My D3 armory
My Youtube Channel
If Blizzard would repeat these banwaves from S5, I might end on the solo barb sc EU leaderboards in S6 again. Muhahahahah
Season 6 barbarian solo sc EU grift 85 12m 23.199s MotE build
"Truth is like a lion. Don't try to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself" Augustine of Hippo
THUD4LYFE, circumvent version check- good to go!
As long as Blizzard prefers a bare UI, there is always going to be a demand from players for THUD, or features that THUD has. Even though there has been improvements in the UI since the recent patches, these improvements are pretty much half-hearted. To date, there is no easy way to look into one's inventory and see which are ancients, and which are not. There is also no way to see if an item is cubed unless you mouseover each item, and stare at a shaded small dot beside the orange legendary affix of that item. The buff bar still does not give cooldown numbers of skills, just this analog timer that can be seen at the top of edge of the skill bar (in this age of digital information, why go analog?). And to date, the location of my buffs in the buff bar still changes too much that I cannot keep track of the buffs that I really care about -- I just want my COE or F/R buffs in a single location, not changing all the time, darn it.
I can live without the stupid map hack, which I turn off because of my ethics on that issue -- but the other features of THUD are QoL changes that are must-haves, frequently requested in PTR, and only SLOWLY adapted in a half-assed sort of way. I would not be surprised if the reason the changes to the buff and skill bar and item tooltips happened PRIMARILY because players like me demanded them so that we don't have to use THUD for them.
I say if Blizzard cannot incorporate these QoL changes into the UI, addons should be allowed on Diablo 3 in a controlled manner, and endorsed on a case to case basis. I want to play rifts and GRs, not stash and inventory tetris half the time.
I see a bunch of bad analogies and straw men throughout the thread.
Botting and thud are not the same.
They may fall into similiar categories and may warrant the same treatment from your view.
I don't agree with using the Eula / tos as an argument nor agree that they deserve the same treatment.
The way people approach thud is neither right or wrong but a matter of opinion as mentioned by the mods. Ultimately, whatever Blizzard has thought about it is the law of the land. Until now, speculation is that it has been allowed.
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Curse Premiumlol you can still use Hud
found a fix for it