What a non-topic. Really, can you not get your head around how customizing your stats will work without the old manual stat system?
You can't customize your stats without the old system........... Thats why it's called auto stats...
People like you are the reason I want manual stat allocation, so when they have no idea wtf they are doing, I can be placing my stats strategically to make a stronger "base" character. (Base meaning without items)
Why is it that items are the only thing that you can truly customize your character with, but there are always BiS (Best in Slot) items, so customization is actually completely gone.... How awesome.
Runes are items so none of that BS.
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Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die today. "James Dean"
I think auto-stat distribution is awesome. i hate realizing hours down the line that for optimal performance, i should have spent points in a different stat. GO AUTO-STAT, WOO! As far as their significance, i would like to know them even though we can't control them b/c if you like to play around with the math, you can see what exactly stat modifiers do for you and what to get next, etc.
Yeah auto stat helps people and it's a nice feature i feel no more worrying about accidentally adding to much dex or tooo much vit . So to me its a little helpful i do agree cuts the amount of customization but still did you guys relle need Maul Sorcs?... No the main purpose of the wizard was to cast and thats what blizzard wants us to do customize but use the character for their purpose.
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They are making gear, just like in WoW, completely overpowered compared to stat allocation.
I don't know where have you been, but that's already true for Diablo. All the feasible builds are associated with powerful items... no item, no build.
Items can change stats, yes, but items changing stats is sort of an outside influence that is not really related to your particular character. Items changing in-stats such as chance to hit etc. works fine as well. RoM has about 15 modifiers that can be all affected by items, and all the differences is that in DIII one stat change changes a bunch of modifiers, in RoM you see multiple modifier changes, separately (honestly, I think it's clearer that way). +attack +chance to hit w/e we've seen those in Diablo games as well sometimes.
Stats had a purpose when we could change them without being able to control separate modifiers. We no longer can do so, and stats are just translations. They may help some people wrap their head around certain modifiers, but I think they'll just cause extra confusion. If STR just stands for "+%damage" maybe that's what I'd rather see.
People like me? Dude shut up. It's fine if you don't share the same opinions as other people in regards to the new stat system, and how much room for customization there will be, but to claim, with no backing whatsoever, that you are an amazing diablo player and I'm not is pretty stupid and also irrelevant.
The fact is, you don't believe that items, talent trees and runes will offer as much in the way of customisation as the old system, while other people do. All that happens by removing auto-stats is makes the classes easier to balance, and emphasises playing style and skill over mathematics.
It's fine if you don't agree, but don't just say you disagree and then start handing out insults.
The fact is, like previously pointed out, items are the only way to customise your character. And there will be items that are the 'best' per slot. Meaning towards the end it is a bunch of carbon copy characters running around forced to wear the same gear cause its the 'best' per their build.
As for the rest of you talking about D2 stats... where the hell did that come from ? No one in here is mentioning they want items to only be wearable by statistics. IF stats had a bigger role in your characters development, there wouldn't be any maul sorcs, or 90k hp sorcs.
The whole point is to make stats better, not because you can be smart and math wiz out. But to give you control over your characters growth, and not be forced to kill X monster to get Y drop. You can 'trial and error' your character by using the respec, how is this not entirely better than Blizzard saying your too dumb/smart to know how to place stats ?
Auto-stats is one of the best changes being introduced in Diablo III, it's just taking people forever to grasp the concept and what it means gameplay-wise.
There is no point at all in showing the actual 'stat' because its worthless anyways. Anyone that's honestly played wow knows that + modifiers were always better than the stat alternative to begin with.[/quote]
I like this idea. Although it means dropping the way things have been done for ever, its for the better. This way should save time, and even though stat benefits would change according to each character, if you know what does what to each character according to strength (or whatever), you should be able to figure it out from the basic stats anyway.
Breaking traditions, and that all round pathetic idea of "but strength makes your character seem more real" is very un-stupid when you consider how much it means to the storyline, which is what roleplaying character care about...?
Anyone that's honestly played wow knows that + modifiers were always better than the stat alternative to begin with
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Raw stats are far better than individual modifiers. I've been playing WoW since release. There were a few lapses where raw +AP or whatnot yielded higher damage output, but for the majority of the game stats were the way to go.
COMPLETELY wrong topic though. The way WoW balances stats to modifiers has NOTHING to do with the way Diablo 3 will.
The main reason for showing stats are...
It's real easy to see two items, one with 50 agility and one with 49, and to know which one is better. If one item had 79 hit rating, 41 crit rating, and 32 dodge rating... And the other had 60 hit rating, 50 crit rating, and 35 dodge rating... It would take a lot of number crunching to really optimize and that just slows down gameplay.
The other is for a reason you seem to hate. Having every modifier displayed takes up a lot of space. Instead of having 4 stats that you rarely NEED to break down, you would have a dozen + stats. It's just too much for every day play.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Raw stats are far better than individual modifiers. I've been playing WoW since release. There were a few lapses where raw +AP or whatnot yielded higher damage output, but for the majority of the game stats were the way to go.
COMPLETELY wrong topic though. The way WoW balances stats to modifiers has NOTHING to do with the way Diablo 3 will.
The main reason for showing stats are...
It's real easy to see two items, one with 50 agility and one with 49, and to know which one is better. If one item had 79 hit rating, 41 crit rating, and 32 dodge rating... And the other had 60 hit rating, 50 crit rating, and 35 dodge rating... It would take a lot of number crunching to really optimize and that just slows down gameplay.
The other is for a reason you seem to hate. Having every modifier displayed takes up a lot of space. Instead of having 4 stats that you rarely NEED to break down, you would have a dozen + stats. It's just too much for every day play.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.. more like RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. If the 'actual' stat points were stronger than the alternative 'dedicated modifier' then the gem system wouldn't even be usefull. Tell me how many people put +crit in there gem slots than +agi ? ... I gave up playing that game ... when I had to use a DPS calculator to figure out which gear i wanted before I spent DKP.
Have you forgotten that the WoW stat system gives you less modifiers per stat as you increase in level ? This will most likely be ported right over into D3 to keep characters 'balanced' because they can't make stats meaningful, since gear is the defining factor in your character not their level.. hence less modifiers per level (go get more gear so you can keep playing this amazing game cause you have to, not because you want to).
So you got 2 BoE weapons, and you can't decide which to wear...
+20STR +10AGI
or
+10STR +20AGI
Too bad you'd have to equip the item to find out which one you actually wanted more . . .
Seriously shouldn't even call it auto-stats... it should be called wupty do doesn't do anything anyways, because your character is defined by what they wear, not by the level in which they attain status.
You character is ultimately defined by his/her level. Why even level up if gear defines your character more so than their level. You could always just keep making items get sequentially better, and have 'flags' before you can wear tiers of items.. like x amount of kills... killed x boss, killed boss solo.. etc.. Should gear be your defining factor of your character, or how you designed them ?
Gear would mean, even thou you leveled up, your not at your 'peak' and must time sink to get your character for random drops. Sounds anti-casual honestly.
Allods Online currently has 10 stats that you can change. Each modifies one thing. One improves your mana regen, another improves your chance to hit. Very simple and clear, no confusion here...
Stats only serve one purpose: make you (as the chooser) to choose between SETS of modifiers. If you cannot choose, they serve no purpose, because items ALREADY carry sets of modifiers since they're freaking items...
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.. more like RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. If the 'actual' stat points were stronger than the alternative 'dedicated modifier' then the gem system wouldn't even be usefull. Tell me how many people put +crit in there gem slots than +agi ? ... I gave up playing that game ... when I had to use a DPS calculator to figure out which gear i wanted before I spent DKP.
Have you forgotten that the WoW stat system gives you less modifiers per stat as you increase in level ? This will most likely be ported right over into D3 to keep characters 'balanced' because they can't make stats meaningful, since gear is the defining factor in your character not their level.. hence less modifiers per level (go get more gear so you can keep playing this amazing game cause you have to, not because you want to).
So you got 2 BoE weapons, and you can't decide which to wear...
+20STR +10AGI
or
+10STR +20AGI
Too bad you'd have to equip the item to find out which one you actually wanted more . . .
Seriously shouldn't even call it auto-stats... it should be called wupty do doesn't do anything anyways, because your character is defined by what they wear, not by the level in which they attain status.
You character is ultimately defined by his/her level. Why even level up if gear defines your character more so than their level. You could always just keep making items get sequentially better, and have 'flags' before you can wear tiers of items.. like x amount of kills... killed x boss, killed boss solo.. etc.. Should gear be your defining factor of your character, or how you designed them ?
Gear would mean, even thou you leveled up, your not at your 'peak' and must time sink to get your character for random drops. Sounds anti-casual honestly.
Some classes benefited more from individual modifiers, and there were times inbetween patches where it was balanced that way.
But...
The MODIFIERS themselves gave less affect as you leveled up, that argument is COMPLETELY invalid.
The reason stats were more valuable in WoW- Blizzard tried to balance the relative PVE effectiveness of gems. 16 agi SHOULD give approximately the same DPS as 32 AP. The main difference? Raw stats were affected by KINGS, where RAW AP was only affected by some specific specs (Like sub rogues), RAW crit isnt affected by anything.
A clear example. DPS warriors should ALWAYS prefer strength. 16 STR gem and 32 AP gem are given the same point allocation. However, for a warrior, a 16 STR gem gives 32 AP PLUS Block if you need to swap to a shield and parry. AND you get an extra benefit when you have kings.
For a rogue, 32 AP is 32 AP. 16 Agi is 16 AP, .4% (In BC) crit, dodge, and armor. The 16 AP and .4% crit alone makes it better than 32 RAW AP, especially when considering Kings.
And again, that has NOTHING to do with Diablo 3. Dont just assume because that is how it worked in WoW that it's going to work the same way in Diablo.
The 10 STR 20 AGI vs 20 STR 10 AGI are probably roughly the same, but it is easier to compare 2 stats than... +Damage +Crit +Hit +Dodge +Block ect ect w/e the stats affect.
And again, that has NOTHING to do with Diablo 3. Dont just assume because that is how it worked in WoW that it's going to work the same way in Diablo.
The 10 STR 20 AGI vs 20 STR 10 AGI are probably roughly the same, but it is easier to compare 2 stats than... +Damage +Crit +Hit +Dodge +Block ect ect w/e the stats affect.
I disagree, they are using the same 'stat / item' system as in wow. Is it too much to believe that they will basically be the same anyways?
And again, if you look into the Wow item system, stats on items determines the items levels. Lower level items could have more beneficial modifiers than their statistical counter parts. Blues being better than Purples up to even +1% crit, etc.
It'd be easier to see the items as:
+4damage +1% crit
+2damage +2% crit
The 10 STR 20 AGI vs 20 STR 10 AGI are probably roughly the same, but it is easier to compare 2 stats than... +Damage +Crit +Hit +Dodge +Block ect ect w/e the stats affect.
I completely disagree. It's so much more obvious what your getting if it reads :
+5%Dodge
+10%Crtical
Than if you get something like this :
+5 Dexterity
+10 Strength
-----------------------
If your say easy to compare by terms of generelization "yeah I got +1 to dex" then yes your right. But honestly, once your past the fact that you got +1 to dex, whats the next train of thought?
WTF is Dex doing for me......
So obviously I know way better what effect I'm upgrading if I get detailed information on them as opposed to stupid affixes that really don't mean much by themselves. (eg: str. Dex. Vit.)
If the Strength Value displays it's effects when I hover my mouse over it and shows exact % of what I'm getting (+10% Critical, +5% Damage) then I would agree to generalizing the terms on item bonuses for simplicity.
But if they leave you guessing as to what does strength do for me apart from the obvious boost in physical strength, then I think it's utterly useless.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
But if they leave you guessing as to what does strength do for me apart from the obvious boost in physical strength [...]
Absolutely what I'm talking about.
To understand what the stat does you have to 'hover' over it, making decisions of wearing items come down to actually wearing them to do any sort of 'comparison' besides damage range.
Some people want to see just strength, dex, vit, etc., some people want more detailed stuff like crit, dodge, etc. Well calm down everyone, it's not that hard to just put both it. You could have two character sheets/pages, one that's the primary with your 4 main states, health, mana, maybe a few other things, and one that's the secondary with dodge, crit, increased spell damage, whatever. I've seen many games that have this, and it gives you the best of both worlds.
I'd also like to chime in on the original topic by saying that the stat system in Diablo II was worthless, and I'm glad to see an auto-attribute system. Customization my ass, everyone had the exact same 2 or 3 stat builds end game. I got so sick of having to whip out a calculator and an item search to figure out exactly what stats I was going to need depending on what items I thought I'd have end game, do I want max block or pumped vit? Well that all depends, do you have Stormshield? If you do, then you gotta pump strength up to 167 and dex up to 225. Oh, wait, you found Enigma and Raven Frost? Well guess what, you just wasted 75-100 points right there in stats you no longer need! Time to start over, stupid!
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"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will." -Thomas Carlyle
Whats this all about, anyway? Aren't Strength and Dex just more stats together? Strength affect all physical damage, not just min or max, and etc... Dex affects dodging, blocking, hit rating...
I don't want 3 modifier everytime I get something that would essentially be "+ Dex". Beside, we don't really know how its all going to work stats wise. I saw no problem with it and WoW.
You can't customize your stats without the old system........... Thats why it's called auto stats...
People like you are the reason I want manual stat allocation, so when they have no idea wtf they are doing, I can be placing my stats strategically to make a stronger "base" character. (Base meaning without items)
Why is it that items are the only thing that you can truly customize your character with, but there are always BiS (Best in Slot) items, so customization is actually completely gone.... How awesome.
Runes are items so none of that BS.
50 bucks bet you are 16 years old or younger.
Items can change stats, yes, but items changing stats is sort of an outside influence that is not really related to your particular character. Items changing in-stats such as chance to hit etc. works fine as well. RoM has about 15 modifiers that can be all affected by items, and all the differences is that in DIII one stat change changes a bunch of modifiers, in RoM you see multiple modifier changes, separately (honestly, I think it's clearer that way). +attack +chance to hit w/e we've seen those in Diablo games as well sometimes.
Stats had a purpose when we could change them without being able to control separate modifiers. We no longer can do so, and stats are just translations. They may help some people wrap their head around certain modifiers, but I think they'll just cause extra confusion. If STR just stands for "+%damage" maybe that's what I'd rather see.
The fact is, like previously pointed out, items are the only way to customise your character. And there will be items that are the 'best' per slot. Meaning towards the end it is a bunch of carbon copy characters running around forced to wear the same gear cause its the 'best' per their build.
As for the rest of you talking about D2 stats... where the hell did that come from ? No one in here is mentioning they want items to only be wearable by statistics. IF stats had a bigger role in your characters development, there wouldn't be any maul sorcs, or 90k hp sorcs.
The whole point is to make stats better, not because you can be smart and math wiz out. But to give you control over your characters growth, and not be forced to kill X monster to get Y drop. You can 'trial and error' your character by using the respec, how is this not entirely better than Blizzard saying your too dumb/smart to know how to place stats ?
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Stay awhile, and listen.
Damage:
Crit %:
etc...
There is no point at all in showing the actual 'stat' because its worthless anyways. Anyone that's honestly played wow knows that + modifiers were always better than the stat alternative to begin with.[/quote]
I like this idea. Although it means dropping the way things have been done for ever, its for the better. This way should save time, and even though stat benefits would change according to each character, if you know what does what to each character according to strength (or whatever), you should be able to figure it out from the basic stats anyway.
Breaking traditions, and that all round pathetic idea of "but strength makes your character seem more real" is very un-stupid when you consider how much it means to the storyline, which is what roleplaying character care about...?
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Raw stats are far better than individual modifiers. I've been playing WoW since release. There were a few lapses where raw +AP or whatnot yielded higher damage output, but for the majority of the game stats were the way to go.
COMPLETELY wrong topic though. The way WoW balances stats to modifiers has NOTHING to do with the way Diablo 3 will.
The main reason for showing stats are...
It's real easy to see two items, one with 50 agility and one with 49, and to know which one is better. If one item had 79 hit rating, 41 crit rating, and 32 dodge rating... And the other had 60 hit rating, 50 crit rating, and 35 dodge rating... It would take a lot of number crunching to really optimize and that just slows down gameplay.
The other is for a reason you seem to hate. Having every modifier displayed takes up a lot of space. Instead of having 4 stats that you rarely NEED to break down, you would have a dozen + stats. It's just too much for every day play.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.. more like RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. If the 'actual' stat points were stronger than the alternative 'dedicated modifier' then the gem system wouldn't even be usefull. Tell me how many people put +crit in there gem slots than +agi ? ... I gave up playing that game ... when I had to use a DPS calculator to figure out which gear i wanted before I spent DKP.
Have you forgotten that the WoW stat system gives you less modifiers per stat as you increase in level ? This will most likely be ported right over into D3 to keep characters 'balanced' because they can't make stats meaningful, since gear is the defining factor in your character not their level.. hence less modifiers per level (go get more gear so you can keep playing this amazing game cause you have to, not because you want to).
So you got 2 BoE weapons, and you can't decide which to wear...
+20STR +10AGI
or
+10STR +20AGI
Too bad you'd have to equip the item to find out which one you actually wanted more . . .
Seriously shouldn't even call it auto-stats... it should be called wupty do doesn't do anything anyways, because your character is defined by what they wear, not by the level in which they attain status.
You character is ultimately defined by his/her level. Why even level up if gear defines your character more so than their level. You could always just keep making items get sequentially better, and have 'flags' before you can wear tiers of items.. like x amount of kills... killed x boss, killed boss solo.. etc.. Should gear be your defining factor of your character, or how you designed them ?
Gear would mean, even thou you leveled up, your not at your 'peak' and must time sink to get your character for random drops. Sounds anti-casual honestly.
Stats only serve one purpose: make you (as the chooser) to choose between SETS of modifiers. If you cannot choose, they serve no purpose, because items ALREADY carry sets of modifiers since they're freaking items...
Some classes benefited more from individual modifiers, and there were times inbetween patches where it was balanced that way.
But...
The MODIFIERS themselves gave less affect as you leveled up, that argument is COMPLETELY invalid.
The reason stats were more valuable in WoW- Blizzard tried to balance the relative PVE effectiveness of gems. 16 agi SHOULD give approximately the same DPS as 32 AP. The main difference? Raw stats were affected by KINGS, where RAW AP was only affected by some specific specs (Like sub rogues), RAW crit isnt affected by anything.
A clear example. DPS warriors should ALWAYS prefer strength. 16 STR gem and 32 AP gem are given the same point allocation. However, for a warrior, a 16 STR gem gives 32 AP PLUS Block if you need to swap to a shield and parry. AND you get an extra benefit when you have kings.
For a rogue, 32 AP is 32 AP. 16 Agi is 16 AP, .4% (In BC) crit, dodge, and armor. The 16 AP and .4% crit alone makes it better than 32 RAW AP, especially when considering Kings.
And again, that has NOTHING to do with Diablo 3. Dont just assume because that is how it worked in WoW that it's going to work the same way in Diablo.
The 10 STR 20 AGI vs 20 STR 10 AGI are probably roughly the same, but it is easier to compare 2 stats than... +Damage +Crit +Hit +Dodge +Block ect ect w/e the stats affect.
I disagree, they are using the same 'stat / item' system as in wow. Is it too much to believe that they will basically be the same anyways?
And again, if you look into the Wow item system, stats on items determines the items levels. Lower level items could have more beneficial modifiers than their statistical counter parts. Blues being better than Purples up to even +1% crit, etc.
It'd be easier to see the items as:
+4damage +1% crit
+2damage +2% crit
Choice is obvious to me at that point...
I completely disagree. It's so much more obvious what your getting if it reads :
+5%Dodge
+10%Crtical
Than if you get something like this :
+5 Dexterity
+10 Strength
-----------------------
If your say easy to compare by terms of generelization "yeah I got +1 to dex" then yes your right. But honestly, once your past the fact that you got +1 to dex, whats the next train of thought?
WTF is Dex doing for me......
So obviously I know way better what effect I'm upgrading if I get detailed information on them as opposed to stupid affixes that really don't mean much by themselves. (eg: str. Dex. Vit.)
If the Strength Value displays it's effects when I hover my mouse over it and shows exact % of what I'm getting (+10% Critical, +5% Damage) then I would agree to generalizing the terms on item bonuses for simplicity.
But if they leave you guessing as to what does strength do for me apart from the obvious boost in physical strength, then I think it's utterly useless.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Absolutely what I'm talking about.
To understand what the stat does you have to 'hover' over it, making decisions of wearing items come down to actually wearing them to do any sort of 'comparison' besides damage range.
Some people want to see just strength, dex, vit, etc., some people want more detailed stuff like crit, dodge, etc. Well calm down everyone, it's not that hard to just put both it. You could have two character sheets/pages, one that's the primary with your 4 main states, health, mana, maybe a few other things, and one that's the secondary with dodge, crit, increased spell damage, whatever. I've seen many games that have this, and it gives you the best of both worlds.
I'd also like to chime in on the original topic by saying that the stat system in Diablo II was worthless, and I'm glad to see an auto-attribute system. Customization my ass, everyone had the exact same 2 or 3 stat builds end game. I got so sick of having to whip out a calculator and an item search to figure out exactly what stats I was going to need depending on what items I thought I'd have end game, do I want max block or pumped vit? Well that all depends, do you have Stormshield? If you do, then you gotta pump strength up to 167 and dex up to 225. Oh, wait, you found Enigma and Raven Frost? Well guess what, you just wasted 75-100 points right there in stats you no longer need! Time to start over, stupid!
"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will."
-Thomas Carlyle
I don't want 3 modifier everytime I get something that would essentially be "+ Dex". Beside, we don't really know how its all going to work stats wise. I saw no problem with it and WoW.