Why do you people INSIST that what I'm talking about has anything to do with Diablo 2.
This is about giving back customization of stats, and making them worth while, orremoving them from sight, and only showing modifiers instead.
If we cannot adjust stats, do not display them to us. Just show us the individual modifiers... all 20 gazillion of them.
Item customization is not customization at all. There will 'always' be best per slot items. I honestly doubt, that we will see 1h swords with the SAME dex modifier that daggers will get.
All the unique items and quest items, will not be a 'customizational' aspect of your character. Anyone one player can get a drop, anyone can get on the forum and make a cookie cutter build. You act like there won't be cookie cutter builds based on talent points and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH... seriously that IS NOT AN ARGUMENT POINT.
Items are going to have a set amount of allocation 'points' they can distribute based on the item level it is. That is obvious at this point.
Ex:
Greens 10
Blues 20
Purples 30
+ level or some crap like that
Otherwise the items are going to be severely overpowered if they have words and ranges, like how D2 was.
So now, if you honestly wanted to go a specific direction with your character, that is not mainstream you will most likely never be as powerful as some cookie cutter crap.
Now I'm not talking about have extreme left or extreme right builds. I'm talking about strengthening one aspect of your character over another. Crit over raw damage, mana regen over large pools, speed over power.
Everyone will be generic because you cannot do what you want with your character if there is no supporting items to do it. How is THAT customization.. I'll never understand.
So what you want is to have 2 wizards. The wizard on the right is a wizard who cast quick and regens mana quick, she uses low cost spells but can do it so fast and so many times that it doesnt even matter if they are a little weak. The wizard on the right how ever has a huge mana pool, she kills everything in her sight with just a couple spells, she doesn't have quick mana regen and she casts a lil bit slow but it doesn't matter because when she does cast, everything dies.
As cool as this sounds, it is not possible, at least not the way you want it. You will be able to get these customization options through other things, rather that focusing on speed only to find out that it does no good when your surrounded. What Im saying is that Stats are not just there to cover up modifiers. There will still be individual modifiers which will be on ITEMS. Stats are there for many things, one of which just so happens to be to increase many modifiers of your character at once. If you want to be that mage on the right, the quick one, heres and example of what to do ( the game isn't out yet, this is just an outline)
Put points in to Magic Missle over Arcane orb.
Chose a Power rune to increase your damage and retain the low mana costs.
Focus on items with more mana regen, over + X mana, but if you can go for the +WILL so it increases mana regen and total mana. (There is no 1 fits all best item)
Don't worry to much about VIT, your build is meant to kill things quick before they even come close.
Get mercs who are melee and can survive while you spam from behind.
Preferably get a staff with some extra dmg and some + WILL to boost dmg, total mana and mana regen.
Get skill in your playstyle, Diablo 3 isnt meant to just build the right character and win and much as Diablo 2. You will need skill, and that is a good thing.
ETC, ETC...
My point is that
1. Stats still are very useful, they are in no way useless just because you can t manipulate them every level. And frankly, i would like to see every modifier in my stat page, but on every skill, item and buff? No. Just No.
2. There will be other ways to customize to your playstyle/liking. I personally didn't use any cookie cutter build in D2, I do not like killing everything without any skill just because i saved up some points since i was level 5.
D3 will require you the player to WORK hard to customize your character. Not just go find items and put them on, or put 5 points in DEX and the rest in VIT. It will require you to have a little skill and understand the playstyle of that certain build. And whenever you do get the chance to add some points to stats (im very, very sure that you will) it will be a more important decision than it was in the past. Im not saying that there wont be any cookie cutter builds, but just not the way they were before, with skill caps and stat allocation gone, town portals gone and a better AI, you will need some defense or you will need skill to play those builds or any build really.
3. D3 isn't D2, ok? IT IS D3. NOT D2. D3. How can you say that stat custimization was removed if they weren't there to begin with? Blizz is tailoring certain aspects of the Diablo genre to fit what they want D3 to be.
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does customizing your stats really matter? didnt everyone in d2 choose the same exact stat assignments anyway?
keep the customization focused on modifying our skills, and let all of the stat customization come from our gear. what were stat assignments except a sort of compliment to our gear anyway?
And doesn't everyone in wow use the same spec for talents ?
i cannot believe the crap that you people spew. no matter what direction you take a character, there will always be guides and howtos. That is not an argument point.
I am talking about D3. I am not talking about D2. Get it out of your freaking heads :spam:.
Take a multi-strike rune and apply it to a skill. Now you know that more strikes = more chances for crits, so your honestly going to want to go heavy on crit, and most likely take out from raw damage OR hp.. whatever you decide what you want to take away from to boost crit.
How can you do that with items, if the developers do not provide you with a item upgrade path that would be the equivalent of another ?
Quote from "purelog1c" »
3. D3 isn't D2, ok? IT IS D3. NOT D2. D3. How can you say that stat custimization was removed if they weren't there to begin with? Blizz is tailoring certain aspects of the Diablo genre to fit what they want D3 to be.
Lol are you serious. Take D2 and go #$%^ yourself with it. This is about a new game, that clearly wants people to play their characters in a specific fashion, regardless of how much 'customization' you have, you cannot do things with your character if you do not have the item support at all.
Stats will be there because people want to see the numbers.
Just because you dont, doesnt mean others dont.
One more thing, the weapons and armors most likely will affect the stats, and with rare items, come random possibilities.
That has always been the difference in who is the strongest.
We all know that there will be different items that will have Godly attributes, I for one will want to see how those attributes will affect my stats.
Im guessing that Blizzard has many other things in mind for Stats.
They have managed to suprise me several times.
Be optimistic, and trust Blizzard to do a great job.
Since they will most likely take until 2011, they will probably create a game that we cannot even fathom right now.
Cheers.
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Its true that there are other potential routes for stats, without making them impossible to costomize, such as prioritizing a different stat or some other things like this (like an influence system), or anything. I'm not Blizzard, I don't have a lot of people talking in -civilized manners- trying to find ideas.
But just because you can't put every single stat point (which is the pointless part), doesn't mean they won't come up with something that still allow you to customize it at all. We don't know about everything they have in store for us.
Auto-stats really don't bother me. Makes you rely on gear, which takes time and skill to get, assuming the godly gear in D3 will be an extreme challenge to get. When your leveling and adding stat points manually and permanently, it's not really a challenge.
Auto-stats really don't bother me. Makes you rely on gear, which takes time and skill to get, assuming the godly gear in D3 will be an extreme challenge to get. When your leveling and adding stat points manually and permanently, it's not really a challenge.
really, if it is like d2, it only takes time, not skill.(to get gear)
just use any guide to build a hammerdin or skellymancer and you will walk through hell many times over and over again just to get the loot.
i guess that is what make d2 boring to me, specially playing on b.net
(although i replay it on singleplayer alot)
Lol are you serious. Take D2 and go #$%^ yourself with it. This is about a new game, that clearly wants people to play their characters in a specific fashion, regardless of how much 'customization' you have, you cannot do things with your character if you do not have the item support at all.
OK OK. Lets take items out of the game. How am I to customize my character?
Skills, choose the right ones my friend, Blizz didnt just add all active skills and slap some +X% damage synergies on them, they added dedicated passive skills, not meant to just increase damage but to sharpen your playstyle. Maybe I want Magic Missile to cast more progectiles rather than have a few that damage some more, I might want Hammer of the Ancients to have a bigger AOE radius over having it stun. Runes also come in to play, they change the skills more to adjust to your playstyle.
Mercs for whatever reason you will use them maybe for defence? Maybe to distract mobs? Offence while you debuff? Have 1 and a bunch of summons to do the dirty work for you? I dont know, you decide for yourself.
Stats, oh wait, they took them out of the game... NO they didn't! Stats are still there, whether you like them or not. They still play a big role in customizing your character. Now how will I be able to change them? I dont know but you will be able to, not every level, but you will be able to change them, its just that now when you do it will be more important than before. And its not like you dont get stat points every level, this also puts more emphasis on leveling up to get a little boost in stats, even if they are automatic.
What Im saying is that Diablo puts more emphasis on you - THE PLAYER, not the character your playing OK? You are to try and change that character to your playstyle. You need skill in many playstyles not just in the entire game and then you can build any character you want and win. D3 is doing a good job of requiring some effort on the players side rather than putting emphasis on how you built your character. Player skill is what will end up customizing your character not just stat points and items. There aren't 1 giazillion ways to customize your character, you are the one that is going to have to figure out how to shape your character with the few things given to the way you want to play it.
Now tell me what type of character I cant build without items and stat points every level.
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Dont forget guys, that when you yourself become cursed ingame, it will most likely effect your stats.
Its hard not to compare with D2 on many factors, but for example:
Getting cursed with Slow, Maiden, or whatever new spells that will be cast in D3 can and probably will effect your stats.
I think we do in fact need to see the stats, to see whats happening to us, and address the situation we are in (in battle, in game.)
Do you think they will make auto stats that will adjust to your use of Armor, weapons and spells?
Example: If a barb uses light armor for the use of speed attacks, his strength wont increase very much (may also depend on the weapon used).
If a barb uses heavy armor (tank) speed wont be a factor, thus his strength goes up tremendously.
I know that idea seems far fetched, but its always a possibility.
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Yea you do make a good point with that. Hopefully they know what their doing with this or maybe they will just let us go back to picking what stats we want instead of having auto stats.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Well if the stat system doesnt allow much variabilty then theres a good chance were going to have cookie cutter builds and such. But then again what game doesnt have cookie cutter builds.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
How are you going to get +10-15% crit over your current setup, if the developers do not provide you with the items to do so.
And would the items have to be greens, instead of blues because of 'tuning' rares+
Regardless of that, since all characters are purely item based anyways, stats have no use. You honestly don't even need to see them (even if they were in the game) cause 'knowing' is half the battle, gi joe.
How are you going to get +10-15% crit over your current setup, if the developers do not provide you with the items to do so.
Sry mate, but I'm not understanding this argument. Every little thing in the game is provided by and only by the developers. If the developers allows stats distribution but don't put a stats that gives +Crit you will not be able to get it by leveling anyway. Actually, in this aspect, items tends to provide alot more options then stats once stats are usually limited to 4~6 options but items you can have a unlimited amount of modifiers.
Regardless of that, since all characters are purely item based anyways, stats have no use. You honestly don't even need to see them (even if they were in the game) cause 'knowing' is half the battle, gi joe.
Thats not true. If you dn't have stats how you will kno a barbarian have more HP and Weapon damage then a wizard ? Or how you will kno who have naturally more spellpower, a wizard or a doc ?
Maybe stats cannot be used to customise your characters but it still needed to us make comparisons about the natural potentials of every class.
I hate it when a character is mostly item based its like they have no soul.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
I mean that in D3 it looks like were going to depend on items more than stats. Which was not the case in the previous games since you needed to have balanced stats for weapons and other items to work to their fullest. Btw dont tell me what game you think is or is not for me i dont go around saying hey i dont like your idea so then that game is probably not for you.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
I agree with that i just mean that they're should be a balance between them not like 5%stats and 95% gear.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Yea that could work out too. Btw have you seen the video on how some runes work. In my opinion it makes the game alot more interesting.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Thats not true. If you dn't have stats how you will kno a barbarian have more HP and Weapon damage then a wizard ? Or how you will kno who have naturally more spellpower, a wizard or a doc ?
Maybe stats cannot be used to customise your characters but it still needed to us make comparisons about the natural potentials of every class.
Uh because ones named Barbarian and the other Wizard ?? I would assume the one that looks like hes 6ft tall with bulging muscles would be the one that is stronger in melee than mister grey hair staff guy.
Items are not customization. They are extensions of your character.
Like I said in the very first post. If stats had actual 'weight' / duty into how your character performs on the battle field, you would not have to disallow people from adjusting their stats on level up, because they would play much more important role in how their character performed.
I would like to see a ratio of 40% stats, 30% skills, and 30% items go into how your character actually does on the battle field.
Dump all your points into +HP/+MANA and you just lost 40% of your total power as a character.. worth it ? I think not.
Dump all your points into +DAMAGE and you just lost 40% of your total HP/MANA..
Then the developers don't have to 'balance' so much of the game, because players will have to balance themselves.
Being able to customize your stats is not enough, if you cannot adjust enough of it to achieve a desired result. If you can only influence 5-10%, then it isn't even worth having customization at all anyways.
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So what you want is to have 2 wizards. The wizard on the right is a wizard who cast quick and regens mana quick, she uses low cost spells but can do it so fast and so many times that it doesnt even matter if they are a little weak. The wizard on the right how ever has a huge mana pool, she kills everything in her sight with just a couple spells, she doesn't have quick mana regen and she casts a lil bit slow but it doesn't matter because when she does cast, everything dies.
As cool as this sounds, it is not possible, at least not the way you want it. You will be able to get these customization options through other things, rather that focusing on speed only to find out that it does no good when your surrounded. What Im saying is that Stats are not just there to cover up modifiers. There will still be individual modifiers which will be on ITEMS. Stats are there for many things, one of which just so happens to be to increase many modifiers of your character at once. If you want to be that mage on the right, the quick one, heres and example of what to do ( the game isn't out yet, this is just an outline)
Put points in to Magic Missle over Arcane orb.
Chose a Power rune to increase your damage and retain the low mana costs.
Focus on items with more mana regen, over + X mana, but if you can go for the +WILL so it increases mana regen and total mana. (There is no 1 fits all best item)
Don't worry to much about VIT, your build is meant to kill things quick before they even come close.
Get mercs who are melee and can survive while you spam from behind.
Preferably get a staff with some extra dmg and some + WILL to boost dmg, total mana and mana regen.
Get skill in your playstyle, Diablo 3 isnt meant to just build the right character and win and much as Diablo 2. You will need skill, and that is a good thing.
ETC, ETC...
My point is that
1. Stats still are very useful, they are in no way useless just because you can t manipulate them every level. And frankly, i would like to see every modifier in my stat page, but on every skill, item and buff? No. Just No.
2. There will be other ways to customize to your playstyle/liking. I personally didn't use any cookie cutter build in D2, I do not like killing everything without any skill just because i saved up some points since i was level 5.
D3 will require you the player to WORK hard to customize your character. Not just go find items and put them on, or put 5 points in DEX and the rest in VIT. It will require you to have a little skill and understand the playstyle of that certain build. And whenever you do get the chance to add some points to stats (im very, very sure that you will) it will be a more important decision than it was in the past. Im not saying that there wont be any cookie cutter builds, but just not the way they were before, with skill caps and stat allocation gone, town portals gone and a better AI, you will need some defense or you will need skill to play those builds or any build really.
3. D3 isn't D2, ok? IT IS D3. NOT D2. D3. How can you say that stat custimization was removed if they weren't there to begin with? Blizz is tailoring certain aspects of the Diablo genre to fit what they want D3 to be.
And doesn't everyone in wow use the same spec for talents ?
i cannot believe the crap that you people spew. no matter what direction you take a character, there will always be guides and howtos. That is not an argument point.
I am talking about D3. I am not talking about D2. Get it out of your freaking heads :spam:.
Take a multi-strike rune and apply it to a skill. Now you know that more strikes = more chances for crits, so your honestly going to want to go heavy on crit, and most likely take out from raw damage OR hp.. whatever you decide what you want to take away from to boost crit.
How can you do that with items, if the developers do not provide you with a item upgrade path that would be the equivalent of another ?
Lol are you serious. Take D2 and go #$%^ yourself with it. This is about a new game, that clearly wants people to play their characters in a specific fashion, regardless of how much 'customization' you have, you cannot do things with your character if you do not have the item support at all.
Just because you dont, doesnt mean others dont.
One more thing, the weapons and armors most likely will affect the stats, and with rare items, come random possibilities.
That has always been the difference in who is the strongest.
We all know that there will be different items that will have Godly attributes, I for one will want to see how those attributes will affect my stats.
Im guessing that Blizzard has many other things in mind for Stats.
They have managed to suprise me several times.
Be optimistic, and trust Blizzard to do a great job.
Since they will most likely take until 2011, they will probably create a game that we cannot even fathom right now.
Cheers.
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
But just because you can't put every single stat point (which is the pointless part), doesn't mean they won't come up with something that still allow you to customize it at all. We don't know about everything they have in store for us.
really, if it is like d2, it only takes time, not skill.(to get gear)
just use any guide to build a hammerdin or skellymancer and you will walk through hell many times over and over again just to get the loot.
i guess that is what make d2 boring to me, specially playing on b.net
(although i replay it on singleplayer alot)
OK OK. Lets take items out of the game. How am I to customize my character?
Skills, choose the right ones my friend, Blizz didnt just add all active skills and slap some +X% damage synergies on them, they added dedicated passive skills, not meant to just increase damage but to sharpen your playstyle. Maybe I want Magic Missile to cast more progectiles rather than have a few that damage some more, I might want Hammer of the Ancients to have a bigger AOE radius over having it stun. Runes also come in to play, they change the skills more to adjust to your playstyle.
Mercs for whatever reason you will use them maybe for defence? Maybe to distract mobs? Offence while you debuff? Have 1 and a bunch of summons to do the dirty work for you? I dont know, you decide for yourself.
Stats, oh wait, they took them out of the game... NO they didn't! Stats are still there, whether you like them or not. They still play a big role in customizing your character. Now how will I be able to change them? I dont know but you will be able to, not every level, but you will be able to change them, its just that now when you do it will be more important than before. And its not like you dont get stat points every level, this also puts more emphasis on leveling up to get a little boost in stats, even if they are automatic.
What Im saying is that Diablo puts more emphasis on you - THE PLAYER, not the character your playing OK? You are to try and change that character to your playstyle. You need skill in many playstyles not just in the entire game and then you can build any character you want and win. D3 is doing a good job of requiring some effort on the players side rather than putting emphasis on how you built your character. Player skill is what will end up customizing your character not just stat points and items. There aren't 1 giazillion ways to customize your character, you are the one that is going to have to figure out how to shape your character with the few things given to the way you want to play it.
Now tell me what type of character I cant build without items and stat points every level.
Its hard not to compare with D2 on many factors, but for example:
Getting cursed with Slow, Maiden, or whatever new spells that will be cast in D3 can and probably will effect your stats.
I think we do in fact need to see the stats, to see whats happening to us, and address the situation we are in (in battle, in game.)
Do you think they will make auto stats that will adjust to your use of Armor, weapons and spells?
Example: If a barb uses light armor for the use of speed attacks, his strength wont increase very much (may also depend on the weapon used).
If a barb uses heavy armor (tank) speed wont be a factor, thus his strength goes up tremendously.
I know that idea seems far fetched, but its always a possibility.
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
And would the items have to be greens, instead of blues because of 'tuning' rares+
Regardless of that, since all characters are purely item based anyways, stats have no use. You honestly don't even need to see them (even if they were in the game) cause 'knowing' is half the battle, gi joe.
Sry mate, but I'm not understanding this argument. Every little thing in the game is provided by and only by the developers. If the developers allows stats distribution but don't put a stats that gives +Crit you will not be able to get it by leveling anyway. Actually, in this aspect, items tends to provide alot more options then stats once stats are usually limited to 4~6 options but items you can have a unlimited amount of modifiers.
Thats not true. If you dn't have stats how you will kno a barbarian have more HP and Weapon damage then a wizard ? Or how you will kno who have naturally more spellpower, a wizard or a doc ?
Maybe stats cannot be used to customise your characters but it still needed to us make comparisons about the natural potentials of every class.
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Diablo games have always been oriented around items and the process of obtaining them.. if you hate this, then DIII is probably not for you :confused:
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Stay awhile, and listen.
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Uh because ones named Barbarian and the other Wizard ?? I would assume the one that looks like hes 6ft tall with bulging muscles would be the one that is stronger in melee than mister grey hair staff guy.
Items are not customization. They are extensions of your character.
Like I said in the very first post. If stats had actual 'weight' / duty into how your character performs on the battle field, you would not have to disallow people from adjusting their stats on level up, because they would play much more important role in how their character performed.
I would like to see a ratio of 40% stats, 30% skills, and 30% items go into how your character actually does on the battle field.
Dump all your points into +HP/+MANA and you just lost 40% of your total power as a character.. worth it ? I think not.
Dump all your points into +DAMAGE and you just lost 40% of your total HP/MANA..
Then the developers don't have to 'balance' so much of the game, because players will have to balance themselves.
Being able to customize your stats is not enough, if you cannot adjust enough of it to achieve a desired result. If you can only influence 5-10%, then it isn't even worth having customization at all anyways.