I am sorry if this happens to be a repeat of an old discussion, but earlier I saw a nice drawing of Blood Raven sitting around contemplating sitting around. I was reminded of my own occasional frustration with enemies or monsters that lack purpose. They get labeled as being evil, but often do not do or say anything to explain their presence or need to be vanquished.
While watching my buddy play WoW a while ago, I imagined that whatever boss he was going to kill was thinking:
"Shit! These guys come and they kill me every day and I do nothing to warrant it. All I want to do is sit here and meditate about my shiny knickknacks. The only reason I'm hostile is because by the time they get here, they have killed every one of my friends and servants who were just trying to keep me from being disturbed. And, since I'm meditating with my eyes closed, I can only detect my enemies from the vibrations of their boots on my cave floor which gives me 45 yards of max detectable range."
I realize that this example comes from WoW and in WoW it is very easy to just leave town to kill creatures because they exists and the player needs to grind experience and loot, while avoiding any of the story which would hopefully absolve the player from a sense that he or she is just being a murderous asshole.
However, a similar sentiment can be evoked in Diablo 2 when in some dungeons or areas, monsters may be packed almost wall-to-wall and they are doing nothing! Maybe they are mindless and are just waiting for orders, but the constant state of never feeling like the character is interrupting any evil activity really detracts from the believability factor.
Maybe this is too much to ask for, but I would really appreciate if the designers of D3 would often ask themselves: "Does the presence and behavior of this hostile creature make sense in terms of where it is and what is around it?"
I realize that the argument that an evil force is compelling all the bad guys to work together might be used to explain why different demons and corrupted beasts might be able to coexist. But, it appears that in D3 we might see nasty predators (I'm thinking of the Dune Thresher) which just hunt to eat whatever comes into their territory. I'm sincerely hoping that if they are going to leave whatever we are purposefully trying to kill alone, there is a legitimate explanation for why (like they are tame, or magically enchanted, or something).
I'm sure there are better examples, but this is too long and has already taken too much time. Let me know what you think (obviously, or I wouldn't have posted this in a forum...).
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All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
- Ernest Rutherford
Why apologize the first words in your thread? It makes it seem like you're second guessing yourself. Anyway I hear what you are saying and I think they will work on the creatures having more intelligence to themselves if that's what your getting at.
in Diablo games, all the mobs are aggressive.
they are trying to kill you isn't that reason enough to kill them?
and most of them are demonic in nature, their very existence is an abomination, isn't that reason enough?
In D3 we kill the demons for many reasons. Kill the enemies becuase they are raiding the humam cities, because they are blocking the way between yuou and the diablo, because they want to corrupt the worldstone and transform sanctuary in a outpost of hell. Theres alot of good reason to do so.
Quote from "Valtonis" »
nd most of them are demonic in nature, their very existence is an abomination, isn't that reason enough?
No... it isn't. The demons think the same of humans: their existance is a abomination, lets kill then. And thats what makes demons evil.
I hear what you are saying. I think it would be way more realistic if the demons and creatures you come across were actually interacting with theyre enviroment. Like when you stumble on a camp of fallen they could be
eating
going to the bathroom
sleeping
hunting
fighting
playing games
torturing people
rather then just standing around like in D2
I hear what you are saying. I think it would be way more realistic if the demons and creatures you come across were actually interacting with theyre enviroment. Like when you stumble on a camp of fallen they could be
eating
going to the bathroom
sleeping
hunting
fighting
playing games
torturing people
rather then just standing around like in D2
That's pretty much what I meant. Not, "why are we killing the demons?" but more like "could the demons maybe act a little bit evil?"
In other games one often encounters demons or evil characters perpetuating evil against good or neutral characters (OR conspiring to commit great evil acts)... It might be nice to see a little of that incorporated in D3...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
- Ernest Rutherford
I think the cultists in D3 will have a good backstory from the NPC's, and there'll probaby be some instances when they'll have "dying last words", or threatening provocations, but as for the other evils in the game, we'll have to just wait and see.
Seems like skeletons and other undead have an indistinguisable language, so it's probably hard to hear their motives verbally. Same with the Fallen - however, there are more Fallen variants to be seen.
I have a feeling that Act bosses will have purpose, and they should be a unique challenge compared to any other monsters in the game.
I saw three pictures a few days ago from Blizzard's art gallery or something that were presumed to be Belial from Act 2. Each picture was the same, but the head was different each time, and since Belial is the Lord of Lies, it is quite possible he has numerous disguises, and different forms - probably within the boss battle itself.
We'll have to see what's in store for us though. That would've been a great question for the Diablo III Q&A at BlizzCon... Might wanna run over to the Battle.net forums and see if Bashiok comments on it at all...
While watching my buddy play WoW a while ago, I imagined that whatever boss he was going to kill was thinking:
"Shit! These guys come and they kill me every day and I do nothing to warrant it. All I want to do is sit here and meditate about my shiny knickknacks. The only reason I'm hostile is because by the time they get here, they have killed every one of my friends and servants who were just trying to keep me from being disturbed. And, since I'm meditating with my eyes closed, I can only detect my enemies from the vibrations of their boots on my cave floor which gives me 45 yards of max detectable range."
I realize that this example comes from WoW and in WoW it is very easy to just leave town to kill creatures because they exists and the player needs to grind experience and loot, while avoiding any of the story which would hopefully absolve the player from a sense that he or she is just being a murderous asshole.
However, a similar sentiment can be evoked in Diablo 2 when in some dungeons or areas, monsters may be packed almost wall-to-wall and they are doing nothing! Maybe they are mindless and are just waiting for orders, but the constant state of never feeling like the character is interrupting any evil activity really detracts from the believability factor.
Maybe this is too much to ask for, but I would really appreciate if the designers of D3 would often ask themselves: "Does the presence and behavior of this hostile creature make sense in terms of where it is and what is around it?"
I realize that the argument that an evil force is compelling all the bad guys to work together might be used to explain why different demons and corrupted beasts might be able to coexist. But, it appears that in D3 we might see nasty predators (I'm thinking of the Dune Thresher) which just hunt to eat whatever comes into their territory. I'm sincerely hoping that if they are going to leave whatever we are purposefully trying to kill alone, there is a legitimate explanation for why (like they are tame, or magically enchanted, or something).
I'm sure there are better examples, but this is too long and has already taken too much time. Let me know what you think (obviously, or I wouldn't have posted this in a forum...).
- Ernest Rutherford
they are trying to kill you isn't that reason enough to kill them?
and most of them are demonic in nature, their very existence is an abomination, isn't that reason enough?
No... it isn't. The demons think the same of humans: their existance is a abomination, lets kill then. And thats what makes demons evil.
So far all D2 heroes can certainly be considered good.
eating
going to the bathroom
sleeping
hunting
fighting
playing games
torturing people
rather then just standing around like in D2
That's pretty much what I meant. Not, "why are we killing the demons?" but more like "could the demons maybe act a little bit evil?"
In other games one often encounters demons or evil characters perpetuating evil against good or neutral characters (OR conspiring to commit great evil acts)... It might be nice to see a little of that incorporated in D3...
- Ernest Rutherford
Seems like skeletons and other undead have an indistinguisable language, so it's probably hard to hear their motives verbally. Same with the Fallen - however, there are more Fallen variants to be seen.
I have a feeling that Act bosses will have purpose, and they should be a unique challenge compared to any other monsters in the game.
I saw three pictures a few days ago from Blizzard's art gallery or something that were presumed to be Belial from Act 2. Each picture was the same, but the head was different each time, and since Belial is the Lord of Lies, it is quite possible he has numerous disguises, and different forms - probably within the boss battle itself.
We'll have to see what's in store for us though. That would've been a great question for the Diablo III Q&A at BlizzCon... Might wanna run over to the Battle.net forums and see if Bashiok comments on it at all...
http://www.diii.net/blog/comments/blizzcon-art-museum-souvenirs-part-iv/?gr_i_ni