I've been reading The Sin Wars: Scales of the Serpent and i just noticed something.
Did I say there was not? The High Heavens and the Burning Hells create their own notions of their absolute might. The dragon paused, then added, They will someday find that they are far from the ultimate masters of all things created . . . --Trag'Oul Page 172 Does anyone think we might see something more stronger than any demon or angel in Diablo 3. I've read somewhere that Knaak wrote the The Sin War Trilogy for some lore for Diablo 3 so i think he hinted something that we might see in D3.
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My life is like a dragon, first praised, then hated, now lost.
Yes, there are higher forms of existence than angels and demons, but no I don't think they will be included in Diablo III. Maybe another hint or so, but nothing major.
We do actually get to see one higher being in one of the novels. I think its in Legacy of Blood. Something that is called a Dreamer is summoned by the sorceress in it. It looks kind of like a very large toad, apparently, and has such ultimate power that is it annoyed at the minor task the necromancer asks it to do.
Excerpt:
“Speak the words, human,” commanded Xazax. “Speak before we are engulfed by our
own creation . . .”
Galeona did, the ancient syllables spilling from her lips. Each word made her own blood
burn, made the horrific veins coursing over her partner flare over and over. The dark
sorceress spoke more quickly, knowing that if she faltered, Xazax’s fear might yet prove
true.
A thing the color of mold and fleshed almost like a toad formed above the body of
Captain Tolos. It struggled, twisted, tried to cry out with a mouth not completely formed.
Let . . . me . . . resssst! it demanded.
Deformed beyond even the manner of demons, the grotesque creature sought to swipe
first at Galeona, then Xazax. However, the wards that she had set into place caused a blue
spark whenever the monstrosity reached out, a spark which clearly hurt the thing much.
In frustration, it finally pulled within itself, wrapping spindly, taloned limbs about it as if
trying to fold itself up enough to utterly disappear.
“You are ours to command,” she told the imprisoned creature.
I . . . must . . . rest!
“You cannot rest until you complete the task we’ve set for you!”
Nightmarish eyes that dangled loose yet also seemed in some ways human peered at her
in open malevolence. Very well . . . for a time, anyway. What would . . . you have . . . of
me?
“No magic binds your eyes, no barriers block your vision. See for us what we seek and
tell us where it is.”
The horror above Tolos’s cooling body quivered, rumbled. Both Xazax and Galeona
bent back at first—until both realized that the thing only laughed at their demand.
That . . . is all? For this . . . I am tortured . . . forced to wake and even . . . forced to
remember?
Recovering, the witch nodded. “Do it and we’ll return you to your sleep.”
The eyes swung toward the demon. Show . . . me what . . . you seek.
The mantis drew a small circle in the midst of the main pattern. A haze of orange filled
the area in which the trapped creature floated. The eyes stared into the haze, seeing what
even Galeona could not see.
It becomes . . . clearer . . . what you . . . seek. It will . . . be requiring . . . of a price.
“The payment,” interjected Xazax. “you have already tasted a portion of.”
Their prisoner gazed down at the body. Accepted.
And with but that—a force struck Galeona so hard within her mind that the sorceress fell
back, collapsing onto her pillows.
[insert astral projection sequence]
And Galeona found herself back in the tent, her eyes staring toward the ceiling, her body
covered in a chill sweat.
“You imbecile!” she roared, picking herself up. “What were you thinking?”
Xazax’s mandibles snapped open and close. “Thinking that this one could find answers
much more quickly than a much distracted female human . . .”
“There are much better ways than fear for discovering secrets! I had him answering
everything! Afew moments’ more and we would have had all we needed to know!” She
thought quickly on the subject. “Maybe it’s not too late! If—”
She hesitated, staring down at where Tolos lay—or rather , had lain.
The body, even the blood that had splattered the carpet, had vanished.
“The dream one has taken his prize,” Xazax remarked. “This Captain Tolos will suffer a
terrible afterdeath . . .”
“Never mind him! We have to get the Dreamer back—”
Here the mantis vehemently twisted his head back and forth, the closest he could come
to shaking it. “This one will not defy a Dreamer in his own domain. Their realm is
beyond even that of Hell or Heaven. Here we may command them, but, break the link,
and they may take what is theirs.” The demon leaned forward. “Do you think your
general might part with another soul?”
What makes you think that thing is higher than an angel or a demon? I read nothing in there that hinted at a strength superior to an angel or even an archangel for that matter.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
He doesn't sound like a 'master', but yeah he's part of that 'higher realm', whatever that is.
Of course that doesn't mean that all beings in this higher realm are more powerful than even Diablo and the archangels. There'd be some overlapping of the power levels, just as there are some humans who can defeat the Three and the archangels even though humans are from a 'lower realm'.
The part where he said "forced to remember ?" gave me the impression that he serves as a watchman, not as a master of creation.
More of a security guard of the realms.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
Great memory Atrumentis, but I'm not entirely sold that it's a being of a higher station than angels or demons, simply a different one that has received markedly less attention, so to speak.
I've always gotten the impression that there is more going on than just Heaven / Hell, there are bits and pieces but nothing concrete -- the biggest is probably Trag'Oul himself, the metaphysical fulcrum of all existence, the dragon of the Balance...it would seem like he's the closest thing the Diablo world has to an ultimate figure / god, yet he really just heads another 'faction' of sorts, he and Rathma.
I'm not sure whether all this hints at more factions to come, or if this is it -- Heaven vs. Hell, Trag'Oul and the Balance in the middle...just some random thoughts.
Well who knows how many dimensions/realms/powers there could be beyond heaven and hell, they just happen to be the 2 most discussed and widely recognized ones in Sanctuary.
Also happen to be the 2 that are feuding over Sanctuary, and from the sounds of it beings from those realms can travel to other realms. I assume this from when Xazax said something along the lines of "dare not defy a dreamer in his own realm."
This basically shows that they are free to travel to and from realms, but it may not be the best idea to do so.
Also sounds like Xazax (representing Hell), and the dreamers have somewhat neutral relations at that point. He didn't express any fear or hate towards it, but neither did he greet it with much joy.
Makes you think of how many other powers could be simply neutral with Heaven or Hell, or how many other powers could be having similar feuds over worlds like Sanctuary.
Or even how many other powers are out there that are feuding with Heaven and Hell. From that Trag' Oul quote, it almost sounds as if there are other powers conspiring against Heaven and Hell.
Anywho, bit of a rant there...
Ended up being pretty rambley, but hopefully I got my point across :/.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
from the way Knaak made the quote about the masters of all things created seems to lead to something we might see in the future (If not D3 maybe future games). it's only a quick part and then it completely strays off. to me it just seems suspitions in having a quick refrence of them then quickly jumping to something else.
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My life is like a dragon, first praised, then hated, now lost.
I believe "beyond" doens't execly mean more power or greatness. I think it means that those planes are more distant to humam world and their perspection. They have less contact with those worlds.
Of course some are problably greater, but it doesn't mean they will appear as a supreme kind or a single god.
I believe all those world are just to put clear that there not only Sanctuary, Heavens and Hell. There are alot more worlds, more distant and unknown worlds. The plane that the Witchdoctors have contect for exemple (i forgot the name).
Finally, i see Trang Oul as greater then Angels and Demons.
This thread reminds me of the old days when people would examine the books and what not
Thinking about this raised a question for me.
How far back does this story go?
The farthest back I can remember is the tales Diablo forming out of the abyss or w/e.
I ask because when you think of warcraft, in the lore it literally goes back to the very beginning, which is the titans. Which made me wonder if there was something besides the angels.
In the final book of the sin war trilogy it points out that angels are made of pure energy. In the final battle it seems like they are easily killed by the demons and vice versa. It just seems like there would most likely be something stronger.
Maybe those from the realm of the dreamer? Thanks to your experienced eye which caught that little piece of info so well. I completely ignored that when I read Legacy lol.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Referring to the last battle of the Sin War trilogy raises a good question -- they were battling with some genuinely physical forms, as that's how they must manifest in Sanctuary (i.e., forms humans can see / touch).
I've always wondered how the battles occur outside of Sanctuary, as the 2 sides have been fighting for eons longer than Sanctuary ever existed (assumedly). Some kind of existence beyond the physical, etc. ?
But it is interesting to think about...Blizzard stated not long ago that angels are of a sorts invisible to us, existing on our plane only as pure energy, a kind of manifestation of light / sound we see through the shape they take in their armor, wings, etc., yet humans -were- able to attack and even (apparently) slay them in that battle...granted the 'humans' at that battle were far closer to the original Nephalem and far more powerful than 'current' humans in Sanctuary.
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A dripping sword / removes all memories.
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Did I say there was not? The High Heavens and the Burning Hells create their own notions of their absolute might. The dragon paused, then added, They will someday find that they are far from the ultimate masters of all things created . . .
--Trag'Oul Page 172
Does anyone think we might see something more stronger than any demon or angel in Diablo 3.
I've read somewhere that Knaak wrote the The Sin War Trilogy for some lore for Diablo 3 so i think he hinted something that we might see in D3.
to me it includes the High Heavens, the Burning Hells, and the humans and creatures of Sanctuary.
We do actually get to see one higher being in one of the novels. I think its in Legacy of Blood. Something that is called a Dreamer is summoned by the sorceress in it. It looks kind of like a very large toad, apparently, and has such ultimate power that is it annoyed at the minor task the necromancer asks it to do.
Excerpt:
“Speak the words, human,” commanded Xazax. “Speak before we are engulfed by our
own creation . . .”
Galeona did, the ancient syllables spilling from her lips. Each word made her own blood
burn, made the horrific veins coursing over her partner flare over and over. The dark
sorceress spoke more quickly, knowing that if she faltered, Xazax’s fear might yet prove
true.
A thing the color of mold and fleshed almost like a toad formed above the body of
Captain Tolos. It struggled, twisted, tried to cry out with a mouth not completely formed.
Let . . . me . . . resssst! it demanded.
Deformed beyond even the manner of demons, the grotesque creature sought to swipe
first at Galeona, then Xazax. However, the wards that she had set into place caused a blue
spark whenever the monstrosity reached out, a spark which clearly hurt the thing much.
In frustration, it finally pulled within itself, wrapping spindly, taloned limbs about it as if
trying to fold itself up enough to utterly disappear.
“You are ours to command,” she told the imprisoned creature.
I . . . must . . . rest!
“You cannot rest until you complete the task we’ve set for you!”
Nightmarish eyes that dangled loose yet also seemed in some ways human peered at her
in open malevolence. Very well . . . for a time, anyway. What would . . . you have . . . of
me?
“No magic binds your eyes, no barriers block your vision. See for us what we seek and
tell us where it is.”
The horror above Tolos’s cooling body quivered, rumbled. Both Xazax and Galeona
bent back at first—until both realized that the thing only laughed at their demand.
That . . . is all? For this . . . I am tortured . . . forced to wake and even . . . forced to
remember?
Recovering, the witch nodded. “Do it and we’ll return you to your sleep.”
The eyes swung toward the demon. Show . . . me what . . . you seek.
The mantis drew a small circle in the midst of the main pattern. A haze of orange filled
the area in which the trapped creature floated. The eyes stared into the haze, seeing what
even Galeona could not see.
It becomes . . . clearer . . . what you . . . seek. It will . . . be requiring . . . of a price.
“The payment,” interjected Xazax. “you have already tasted a portion of.”
Their prisoner gazed down at the body. Accepted.
And with but that—a force struck Galeona so hard within her mind that the sorceress fell
back, collapsing onto her pillows.
[insert astral projection sequence]
And Galeona found herself back in the tent, her eyes staring toward the ceiling, her body
covered in a chill sweat.
“You imbecile!” she roared, picking herself up. “What were you thinking?”
Xazax’s mandibles snapped open and close. “Thinking that this one could find answers
much more quickly than a much distracted female human . . .”
“There are much better ways than fear for discovering secrets! I had him answering
everything! Afew moments’ more and we would have had all we needed to know!” She
thought quickly on the subject. “Maybe it’s not too late! If—”
She hesitated, staring down at where Tolos lay—or rather , had lain.
The body, even the blood that had splattered the carpet, had vanished.
“The dream one has taken his prize,” Xazax remarked. “This Captain Tolos will suffer a
terrible afterdeath . . .”
“Never mind him! We have to get the Dreamer back—”
Here the mantis vehemently twisted his head back and forth, the closest he could come
to shaking it. “This one will not defy a Dreamer in his own domain. Their realm is
beyond even that of Hell or Heaven. Here we may command them, but, break the link,
and they may take what is theirs.” The demon leaned forward. “Do you think your
general might part with another soul?”
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Last paragraph.
Of course that doesn't mean that all beings in this higher realm are more powerful than even Diablo and the archangels. There'd be some overlapping of the power levels, just as there are some humans who can defeat the Three and the archangels even though humans are from a 'lower realm'.
More of a security guard of the realms.
I've always gotten the impression that there is more going on than just Heaven / Hell, there are bits and pieces but nothing concrete -- the biggest is probably Trag'Oul himself, the metaphysical fulcrum of all existence, the dragon of the Balance...it would seem like he's the closest thing the Diablo world has to an ultimate figure / god, yet he really just heads another 'faction' of sorts, he and Rathma.
I'm not sure whether all this hints at more factions to come, or if this is it -- Heaven vs. Hell, Trag'Oul and the Balance in the middle...just some random thoughts.
Also happen to be the 2 that are feuding over Sanctuary, and from the sounds of it beings from those realms can travel to other realms. I assume this from when Xazax said something along the lines of "dare not defy a dreamer in his own realm."
This basically shows that they are free to travel to and from realms, but it may not be the best idea to do so.
Also sounds like Xazax (representing Hell), and the dreamers have somewhat neutral relations at that point. He didn't express any fear or hate towards it, but neither did he greet it with much joy.
Makes you think of how many other powers could be simply neutral with Heaven or Hell, or how many other powers could be having similar feuds over worlds like Sanctuary.
Or even how many other powers are out there that are feuding with Heaven and Hell. From that Trag' Oul quote, it almost sounds as if there are other powers conspiring against Heaven and Hell.
Anywho, bit of a rant there...
Ended up being pretty rambley, but hopefully I got my point across :/.
Of course some are problably greater, but it doesn't mean they will appear as a supreme kind or a single god.
I believe all those world are just to put clear that there not only Sanctuary, Heavens and Hell. There are alot more worlds, more distant and unknown worlds. The plane that the Witchdoctors have contect for exemple (i forgot the name).
Finally, i see Trang Oul as greater then Angels and Demons.
Thinking about this raised a question for me.
How far back does this story go?
The farthest back I can remember is the tales Diablo forming out of the abyss or w/e.
I ask because when you think of warcraft, in the lore it literally goes back to the very beginning, which is the titans. Which made me wonder if there was something besides the angels.
In the final book of the sin war trilogy it points out that angels are made of pure energy. In the final battle it seems like they are easily killed by the demons and vice versa. It just seems like there would most likely be something stronger.
Maybe those from the realm of the dreamer? Thanks to your experienced eye which caught that little piece of info so well. I completely ignored that when I read Legacy lol.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I've always wondered how the battles occur outside of Sanctuary, as the 2 sides have been fighting for eons longer than Sanctuary ever existed (assumedly). Some kind of existence beyond the physical, etc. ?
But it is interesting to think about...Blizzard stated not long ago that angels are of a sorts invisible to us, existing on our plane only as pure energy, a kind of manifestation of light / sound we see through the shape they take in their armor, wings, etc., yet humans -were- able to attack and even (apparently) slay them in that battle...granted the 'humans' at that battle were far closer to the original Nephalem and far more powerful than 'current' humans in Sanctuary.