Everybody says that Blizzard has no control over third parties but I don't see how thats possible.
Couldn't blizzard simply put it in the terms of agreement that you cannot use the items to make a profit by a third party?
If one was caught selling items their accounts would be banned because the user definitely agreed to the terms that stated no third party profit.
Blizz would act like cops and go undercover and buy items and use that as evidence to convict the forum gold jerks. And then the head hanchos.
Honestly it seems pretty easy to me.
Is there a law that says Blizz can't dictate what people do with the items they gain or something?
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
A significant proportion of the diablo community will only play knowing that they will gain an unfair advantage by using their $$$ to buy game items. Blizzard might possibly have not placed any firm rules against 3rd party trading so as not to lose these consumers.
Without placing any legal terms, they are subtly encouraging the use - without explicitly supporting these unethical acts.
I think if they wanted to then it would extremely easy to target gold and item selling websites like d2items.com and close them down
If they wanted to... I guess they don't want to
The same thing happens with WoW and gold/item selling... Do they close down those sites?
Then this raises further questions. Do these third parties attribute to the revenue and popularity of these games?
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Couldn't blizzard simply put it in the terms of agreement that you cannot use the items to make a profit by a third party?
I myself haven't read the Terms fully, I hardly ever do come to think about it. But I'm pretty sure that is in there already. Something along the lines of I agree to not use any programs that are designed to alter gameplay to give one player an advantage over another, including but not limited to Hacks, editors, Proxies, Bots.
A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;
B. exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard; (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;
C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
D. modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;
E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;
F. facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using programs or tools not expressly approved by Blizzard; or
G. disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service (each a "Server"); or (ii) any other player's Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE GAME CLIENT MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS. You agree that you will not violate any applicable law or regulation in connection with your use of the Game Client or the Service.
Does that stop people doing it though is the hard part. Banning of accounts, what a punishment that is. Banning of IPs. Better but it's still not great. And neither is voiding CD Keys. But it's the least that should be done.
It says you will be prosecuted for using these things, yet I can't recall hearing of anyone getting prosecuted without a legitimate player stepping up and reporting the offender first. Kinda lame. If you ask me.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I myself haven't read the Terms fully, I hardly ever do come to think about it. But I'm pretty sure that is in there already. Something along the lines of I agree to not use any programs that are designed to alter gameplay to give one player an advantage over another, including but not limited to Hacks, editors, Proxies, Bots.
A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;
B. exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard; (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;
C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
D. modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;
E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;
F. facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using programs or tools not expressly approved by Blizzard; or
G. disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service (each a "Server"); or (ii) any other player's Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE GAME CLIENT MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS. You agree that you will not violate any applicable law or regulation in connection with your use of the Game Client or the Service.
Does that stop people doing it though is the hard part. Banning of accounts, what a punishment that is. Banning of IPs. Better but it's still not great. And neither is voiding CD Keys. But it's the least that should be done.
It says you will be prosecuted for using these things, yet I can't recall hearing of anyone getting prosecuted without a legitimate player stepping up and reporting the offender first. Kinda lame. If you ask me.
Thanks for that helpful info Elfen. So, if it's in there...Why does Blizz not stop it?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Why should they care depends mainly on how much it affects the game. Diablo 2 is already in hell because of everything and they can't change how it is.
If Diablo 3 is done properly, I don't see most of it affecting other players much if at all. Which means there is little reason for Blizzard to waste resources going after them. If third parties can affect your personal experience significantly (other than whining because you -have- to care about everyone else, which is not blizzard's problem), then there is a problem with the game - such was the case with Diablo 2.
Selling items creates an uneven multiplayer experience between those who choose to follow the rules and those who don't... pretty simple
And you can't argue that it doesn't effect you. Every legit player who participates in trading and the online economy is negatively effected by the devaluation of their hard earned items because some people are farming the game with automated programs
The people are working real jobs to get the money whereas you are working by playing the game. In fact, don't you think your way is more fun?
Are you kidding me? Maybe playing a game is more stress-relieving, but I can assure you each hour you spend MF grinding is always going to come in second best vs. the items you could buy from each hour working a job - which, I think could often be more interesting as it provides variety (don't hold me against it), while grinding is basically the same repetitive task over and over.
If it were legal/ethical, rather than going out and perfecting my MF gear to increase productivity, I would definitely start working on making cash to buy items online.
As genesis has said, auto programs also ruin this game.
Thanks for that helpful info Elfen. So, if it's in there...Why does Blizz not stop it?
They try to. Not sure if you play WOW or not, but WOW is constantly getting patched with authenticators and fixes to try and stop this, every time the hackers come up with something new, Blizzard tries to fix it. Trouble is, like any company, Blizzard is always one step behind. So they aren't really fixing the problem.
Also I guess there is an issue of money, apparently my money is worth as much to blizzard as the guy who hacks the game. Apparently we are both viewed as paying customers. So there is no issue. While I would like to think my money is worth more as I am paying to play the game they made, they way the made it, but that's not how it works.
Might seem a little harsh but it seems to come down to money. I love blizzard's game, but I hate people exploiting the games for personal gain. Exploiting game codes to make a mod or reverse engineer a mod, like how people used to do is fine and should be encouraged, and Blizzard infact does this. but straight up hacking the game to put 6 sockets of a Grandfather and having a Barbarian with 9999999 levels to Bash is beyond resaonable. And this should be outlawed.
I don't care how fun it is having a barbarian who can whirlwind from the blood moor to Blood Raven's cemetery. It's just not right.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I don't really care to be honest. If they want to do that, then fine. I'll just host a private game and invite my friends who actually want to play legitly. If they don't want to actually play the game, and just want great rewards through no effort, fine. I'd rather work for it. After beating down Diablo time after time, trudging my way over Mount Arreat and defeating Baal, many times, finally getting that item you've been searching for, to give yourself +3 damage and a slightly larger life steal, it's a great feeling. Those who want to ruin their OWN time by buying items, or hacking the game, truly do not know how fun Diablo 2 can really be.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Here's to hoping His Noodly Appendage touches you and may His Sauce rain down upon you,
-GM
RAmen
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster website: www.venganza.org
Going back to the question of why doesn't Blizzard stop them... it's a matter of manpower. Big brother's not gonna patrol and enforce Blizzard's terms, so Blizzard has to hire new people to do this. It's quite an undertaking, and the item-hocking merchants will just evolve to accommodate their means.
Warhammer Online, I think, easily tackled the problem with Banhammer. They made it very easy to report gold sellers. Of course, I think Blizzard could implement something similar. Any effort, I believe, would massively help the quality of multiplayer. Besides, others are profitting off of Blizzard's success. They should be looking after their namesake!
Truth of the matter, though, is that item selling is like a cancer and it will probably spread in different ways. I hope that Blizz can tackle it right off the bat. I mean, it's a matter of QUALITY assurance. If Blizzard cares about the quality of their games, they should care about this problem as well. It's just a matter of implementing it.
Actually, Elfen, they have banned thousands of WoW accounts due to hacking.
But then people buy WoW right back up and start doing it again...
You've just nailed it, possibly without realizing it.
This is why they don't stop it. They will continue to ban accounts, and then those people will continue to buy accounts. It's more revenue for Blizzard, more than would be available if they put a stop to it completely. They don't shut down the gold/item buying websites because then these types of people would stop buying accounts since their way of playing has been permanently removed.
So yeah. They don't stop it. They merely maintain control over it. I'm sure they have tools to monitor these things specifically. When it reaches their decided cap, they ban a few thousand accounts.
Rinse and repeat until the end of the game's life.
But this is mostly behind the scenes right. They only announce when they ban accounts, and the populace is happy. They put a spam reporter into the game to give players the power to remove gold spammers in chat channels, and the populace feels Blizzard gave them control over their own experience. Protip: Spam reporting only reports the account, it does not ban it until Blizzard decides to ban it.
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Couldn't blizzard simply put it in the terms of agreement that you cannot use the items to make a profit by a third party?
If one was caught selling items their accounts would be banned because the user definitely agreed to the terms that stated no third party profit.
Blizz would act like cops and go undercover and buy items and use that as evidence to convict the forum gold jerks. And then the head hanchos.
Honestly it seems pretty easy to me.
Is there a law that says Blizz can't dictate what people do with the items they gain or something?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Without placing any legal terms, they are subtly encouraging the use - without explicitly supporting these unethical acts.
I think if they wanted to then it would extremely easy to target gold and item selling websites like d2items.com and close them down
If they wanted to... I guess they don't want to
The same thing happens with WoW and gold/item selling... Do they close down those sites?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
If the answer was no... That just wouldn't make any sense at all. They are a business
they would not do it if there was not profit to be made lol
Revenue? Definitely yes.
I myself haven't read the Terms fully, I hardly ever do come to think about it. But I'm pretty sure that is in there already. Something along the lines of I agree to not use any programs that are designed to alter gameplay to give one player an advantage over another, including but not limited to Hacks, editors, Proxies, Bots.
It is for World of Warcraft.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;
B. exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard; (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;
C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
D. modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;
E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;
F. facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using programs or tools not expressly approved by Blizzard; or
G. disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service (each a "Server"); or (ii) any other player's Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE GAME CLIENT MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS. You agree that you will not violate any applicable law or regulation in connection with your use of the Game Client or the Service.
Does that stop people doing it though is the hard part. Banning of accounts, what a punishment that is. Banning of IPs. Better but it's still not great. And neither is voiding CD Keys. But it's the least that should be done.
It says you will be prosecuted for using these things, yet I can't recall hearing of anyone getting prosecuted without a legitimate player stepping up and reporting the offender first. Kinda lame. If you ask me.
blizzard totally sux at making it simple to report cheaters and such
theres no button
80% of their admins are bots while the other 20% just dont care lol
you have to go to the site and send an email and get a reply like 6 months later xD
and the reply says we did investigating and found the player to be legit nyooooooooooooooooooooooooo xD
so ya that isnt gonna get any better until they make that system better all together
Be my Buddy =^.^=
Thanks for that helpful info Elfen. So, if it's in there...Why does Blizz not stop it?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
If Diablo 3 is done properly, I don't see most of it affecting other players much if at all. Which means there is little reason for Blizzard to waste resources going after them. If third parties can affect your personal experience significantly (other than whining because you -have- to care about everyone else, which is not blizzard's problem), then there is a problem with the game - such was the case with Diablo 2.
The people are working real jobs to get the money whereas you are working by playing the game. In fact, don't you think your way is more fun?
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
And you can't argue that it doesn't effect you. Every legit player who participates in trading and the online economy is negatively effected by the devaluation of their hard earned items because some people are farming the game with automated programs
Are you kidding me? Maybe playing a game is more stress-relieving, but I can assure you each hour you spend MF grinding is always going to come in second best vs. the items you could buy from each hour working a job - which, I think could often be more interesting as it provides variety (don't hold me against it), while grinding is basically the same repetitive task over and over.
If it were legal/ethical, rather than going out and perfecting my MF gear to increase productivity, I would definitely start working on making cash to buy items online.
As genesis has said, auto programs also ruin this game.
They try to. Not sure if you play WOW or not, but WOW is constantly getting patched with authenticators and fixes to try and stop this, every time the hackers come up with something new, Blizzard tries to fix it. Trouble is, like any company, Blizzard is always one step behind. So they aren't really fixing the problem.
Also I guess there is an issue of money, apparently my money is worth as much to blizzard as the guy who hacks the game. Apparently we are both viewed as paying customers. So there is no issue. While I would like to think my money is worth more as I am paying to play the game they made, they way the made it, but that's not how it works.
Might seem a little harsh but it seems to come down to money. I love blizzard's game, but I hate people exploiting the games for personal gain. Exploiting game codes to make a mod or reverse engineer a mod, like how people used to do is fine and should be encouraged, and Blizzard infact does this. but straight up hacking the game to put 6 sockets of a Grandfather and having a Barbarian with 9999999 levels to Bash is beyond resaonable. And this should be outlawed.
I don't care how fun it is having a barbarian who can whirlwind from the blood moor to Blood Raven's cemetery. It's just not right.
Here's to hoping His Noodly Appendage touches you and may His Sauce rain down upon you,
-GM
RAmen
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster website: www.venganza.org
Warhammer Online, I think, easily tackled the problem with Banhammer. They made it very easy to report gold sellers. Of course, I think Blizzard could implement something similar. Any effort, I believe, would massively help the quality of multiplayer. Besides, others are profitting off of Blizzard's success. They should be looking after their namesake!
Truth of the matter, though, is that item selling is like a cancer and it will probably spread in different ways. I hope that Blizz can tackle it right off the bat. I mean, it's a matter of QUALITY assurance. If Blizzard cares about the quality of their games, they should care about this problem as well. It's just a matter of implementing it.
But then people buy WoW right back up and start doing it again...
You've just nailed it, possibly without realizing it.
This is why they don't stop it. They will continue to ban accounts, and then those people will continue to buy accounts. It's more revenue for Blizzard, more than would be available if they put a stop to it completely. They don't shut down the gold/item buying websites because then these types of people would stop buying accounts since their way of playing has been permanently removed.
So yeah. They don't stop it. They merely maintain control over it. I'm sure they have tools to monitor these things specifically. When it reaches their decided cap, they ban a few thousand accounts.
Rinse and repeat until the end of the game's life.
But this is mostly behind the scenes right. They only announce when they ban accounts, and the populace is happy. They put a spam reporter into the game to give players the power to remove gold spammers in chat channels, and the populace feels Blizzard gave them control over their own experience. Protip: Spam reporting only reports the account, it does not ban it until Blizzard decides to ban it.