They carry this magical bag just like Santa does. You put stuff in it and it goes to an other dimension with much bigger size and other laws of weight and size. That way Santa can carry presents for the entire world. Just like Heroes can carry items 20x as heavy and big as themselves.
Thanks for at least answering with some humor instead of acting like I was asking the dumbest question in the world when I was just playing devil's advocate!
As long there is some sort of limit and I can't carry too much, I will be cool. Just enough to where it does not disrupt game play.
It's not hard to see that a developer draws feedback from their past games and implement it in their new games. I think they've even stated somewhere that very well working elements from D2 got implemented in WoW. And Very good elements from WoW will be implemented in D3. Without overhauling the whole genre. Think of an auction house system.
But the more games you play the more you realise your playing a moded version of an already released game. That applys to some games more than others.
I think that with Blizzard being Blizzard, its time for the next jump. The nex-gen genre or gaming/gamer integration system. I think im being a little too optimistic that we'll see such a feature in D3. A feature that stops the world with a unanimous "Holy Shit..." Maybe VR? Haha
...[E]lements from WoW will be implemented in D3...Think of an auction house system.
I doubt you'll see a successful Auction House implemented into D3. The very way diablo games have had their economies set up does not lend well to gold being a carrying currency for most items.
When you look at what gets traded in the WoW AH, you'll see what I'm talking about. Its mostly crafting supplies (not likely to apply to diablo3 unless they really do something different for crafting), less useful magic items (mostly for disenchanting, aka crafting), potions (already stated to not play as large of a role in d3), elixers (I'm not even sure if such a thing will exist in d3, as they haven't in previous diablo games), and other small items like darkmoon cards which again nothing of this sort is confirmed for D3. The only things in the AH that do seem to carry over would be runes (glyphs) and magic items (limited to BoE in WoW), so so far the AH doesn't seem to carry much use, which brings in the question how will pricing work in d3?
Well blizzard has said gold will be worth more in D3, but saying something that has previously had essentially no value will be worth more is very vague. In WoW there was plenty of gold sinks from mount costs, repairs (made much more significant from endgame raiding), potions/elixers/scrolls, item enchants, crafting supplies, travel, AH costs, etc... Diablo games however don't have the same level of demand on gold in order to play, nor has nearly enough been annouced in order to start assuming that this will change. So if gold, the working currency for the AH system, is not worth much, then why would items be sold, rather then traded for items that will be more useful.
Unless a balanced economy is created, inflation will make it so selling items will become a net loss of value over time as the amount of gold in circulation increases. So is selling item X for gold (which you already have enough of) worth it when next week it will sell for 2 times that amount? not likely, you'd be better off holding onto it and trading it for an item immediately useful and which will increase in AH gold-sale value at roughly the same rate as the one you traded it for.
This leaves 2 options:
1. They drastically stray from previous diablo games, make a more balanced gold based economy, and import more MMO like elements in order to control this inflation. Which creates new problems like gold sales from outside sources like farmers in WoW, and alienating hardcore Diablo fans. (In all fairness I'm guessing even if gold isn't sold like in WoW, high price items will be)
2. They don't make gold a driving force like in WoW, and in doing so make a functioning AH for any useful items unrealistic, as who wants to trade useful items for less useful gold?
Obviously these are more like 2 extremes of a scale, but my guess is that you'd see them end up closer to option 2. I posted about a 'Trading House' idea, which is one method of allowing the game to remain more similar to daiblo's previous economies, where gold is not the popular medium of trade, by allowing an AH like search tool connect you to items players have made available to trade offers. But in order for them to import an auction house anything like WoW's, much more about Diablo will need to be changed.
How can Diablo 3 be the kid of WoW? I didn't knew games could give birth.
ahahaha the mans got a point(i hope your man and i havent just offended you :P)
but WoW and D3 are made by the same company so i think its fairly reasonable for some gameplay mechanics from WoW to be in D3. As long as they suit the gameplay of D3
I get that, and there is nothing wrong with it really. Even bad games or games we dislike might have things we like inside it. Extracting them to put them into an other game is just natural.
Yeah just like WoW would mostly likely be half the game it is if it didnt have elements from D2 in it, well half might be exagerating it abit but you get the point
I hate hearing that, WOW take most part of is good thing in diablo1 and 2 and other mmorpg. DIablo 1 is the first RPG that went out on the market and he launch RPG gender and influenced most part of all RPG on the market now. STOP saying that diablo 3 in a bastard son of wow because wow is the bastard son of diablo 1 and 2.
I hate hearing that, WOW take most part of is good thing in diablo1 and 2 and other mmorpg. DIablo 1 is the first RPG that went out on the market and he launch RPG gender and influenced most part of all RPG on the market now. STOP saying that diablo 3 in a bastard son of wow because wow is the bastard son of diablo 1 and 2.
Diablo 1 wasn't the first RPG on the market, but I do agree that WoW took what worked from their previous games and built upon it. They are doing this with Diablo 3. If people won't play it just because it shows likeness to a game that was extremely successful then good riddance! Don't play the game - less competition!
How can you criticize a company for being successful then incorperating the best parts of that success into new games? It's a constantly changing dynamic. WoW will be WoW and Diablo 3 will be Diablo 3 regardless of similarities or differences.
Every game will take elements from games that were created before them. This is because they were good things. Even if the game that used them before might not have been as good.
This is normal and you better get used to it.
You might be nagging now, but believe me when the game is out, you'll find it to be very fun.
And yes,
WoW + Diablo 2 = Diablo 3 in a way. That's only because.
Diablo 2 + Warcraft 3 = WoW
And I dislike WoW aswell, but certain things were good, and now they get implanted in Diablo 3. It's not bad.
/end
This sums it all up pretty darn well.
Everything that D3 takes from wow should be great as long as it helps out the game in making it easier to manage and more fun to play its really that simple. Now if there was talk of 40 man bosses where you had tanks, healers and dps then id say yes D3 is the bastard child of wow and D2
Quote from "Mystics" »
I usually withhold judgement on games until I play it(Beta or release)!
I've played virtually every MMO released and I think WoW very obviously draws inspiration from Diablo II in many facets of the game.
Biggest initial wow features:
Faction fight - comes from UO.
Mounts - comes from UO and greatly improved by FFXI.
Raiding - comes from EQ.
World PvP - comes from UO.
Talent skill system - comes from anarchy.
Trade skills - comes from UO.
Focus on party and teamwork for leveling up instead of farming - FFXI.
None of those main features of wow are found in diablo or diablo 2.
Biggest initial wow features:
Faction fight - comes from UO.
I'm pretty sure factions are something that predates UO, and the WoW 'factions' have been set in stone since WC1 Orcs vs Humans. Opposing sides are not exactly a defining feature for any game, nor an original idea even to video games.
Mounts - comes from UO and greatly improved by FFXI.
Again mounts predate the entire MMO Genre, and don't require a source, people have long rode on animals, and featuring that in a game is a matter of common sense. Though I'm sure your talking about more the method in which they were implemented.
Raiding - comes from EQ.
While I can't confirm raiding comes from EQ, I don't doubt your right
World PvP - comes from UO.
Again don't doubt your right, though its not an original idea, Diablo predates OU and had an online PvP system
Talent skill system - comes from anarchy.
The WoW talent skill system definately built off of the system in D2, perhaps anarchy online built off of diablo 2's skill system? after all it did come out a year before AO.
Trade skills - comes from UO.
Again don't doubt
Focus on party and teamwork for leveling up instead of farming - FFXI.
None of those main features of wow are found in diablo or diablo 2.
As I pointed out, some of them definitely are found in D2. Why not take it back even further to table top games that all MMO's built off of? You can keep going back, but all these features are built off of the foundation of predecessors which built off of history and myths. The more you look at it the more you realise originality is a rare commodity. I really don't disagree with most of what you said, it's just that its easy to oversimplify the inspiration for different games features.
I'm pretty sure factions are something that predates UO, and the WoW 'factions' have been set in stone since WC1 Orcs vs Humans. Opposing sides are not exactly a defining feature for any game, nor an original idea even to video games.
Again mounts predate the entire MMO Genre, and don't require a source, people have long rode on animals, and featuring that in a game is a matter of common sense. Though I'm sure your talking about more the method in which they were implemented.
While I can't confirm raiding comes from EQ, I don't doubt your right
Again don't doubt your right, though its not an original idea, Diablo predates OU and had an online PvP system
The WoW talent skill system definately built off of the system in D2, perhaps anarchy online built off of diablo 2's skill system? after all it did come out a year before AO.
Again don't doubt
As I pointed out, some of them definitely are found in D2. Why not take it back even further to table top games that all MMO's built off of? You can keep going back, but all these features are built off of the foundation of predecessors which built off of history and myths. The more you look at it the more you realise originality is a rare commodity. I really don't disagree with most of what you said, it's just that its easy to oversimplify the inspiration for different games features.
I'm not talking about the story of man kind or RTS. I'm talking about MMORPGs and RPGs with a strong online community like diablo. When i say wow get mounts from FFXI it's because the way it works are very very similar. Not only wow, but almost all mmorpgs add a mount system after FFXI, and all those system works the same in most cases.
The same happens with the other features.
The fact is Diablo lacks the most popular and important wow features, that in many cases, comes from other mmorpgs.
Why do i get the feeling your abit of a WoW fanboy?
And WoW is basically a combination of most of the great RPG elements from other games. But you can not debate that it has a strong D2 influence. Does anyone know if someone who worked/works on WoW worked on D2?
The fact is Diablo lacks the most popular and important wow features, that in many cases, comes from other mmorpgs.
Yeah I see where your coming from, and your right that d2 lacks many key features to MMO's, though this is quite expected given how different the genre's are.
I always felt that WoW incorporated too many previous MMO standards rather then doing a great deal to push the genre's boundaries. My main beef is the standard heal-tank-dps based aggro system... Overall its pretty boring, and healers/tanks never perform as well as DPS outside of parties, only creating a great imbalance of character roles. Same with the way in which the economy and binding drops. Though my guess is they didn't stray too far as the set up is generally stable (aka easy). Hopefully with the new unnanouced MMO they will take a more groundbreaking approach to the genre. WoW was after all their first, and MMO's are notoriously unforgiving if you don't have it set up well to begin.
But for an ARPG they did import an awful lot of diablo's content including the random item drop system, many skills and abilities, the skill (talent) tree. And many of WC3's feature that carried over were even more D1/2 inspired. Says a lot about d2 as a game, blizzards approach to game design, and how much we can expect to see WoW influence d3.
But for an ARPG they did import an awful lot of diablo's content including the random item drop system, many skills and abilities, the skill (talent) tree. And many of WC3's feature that carried over were even more D1/2 inspired. Says a lot about d2 as a game, blizzards approach to game design, and how much we can expect to see WoW influence d3.
Yeah I remenber now a diablo's influence in the rare drops and the prefix/suffix system in some uncommon items. But this items plays a very small role in wow (thats why i totally forgotten they existance lol)... Epics are not that random. Actually the raid boss loot are very limited, they allways drop about the same amount of epics and the loot table for those epics are small.
Though the diablo's concept of skill tree are used in wow's talent tree, the whole concept is very different. In wow you get your skills by trainning with NPC. You use your points to enchance the skills. This bring a tremendous difference between diablo's and wow, both in gameplay and in customisation.
What I'm trying to say is that diablo 1 and 2 really have a heavy influence in the ocidental rpgs. Naturally wow have some of this influence, but thats it. WoW are not specially influenced by Diablo... You can find much more influence of general MMO in WoW and many other games more influenced by diablo then WoW. Thats why imo the bound between wow and diablo are very weak.
Imo D3 will be much more influenced by WoW then WoW by D2. It's prety obvious, once the team that created D2 are not the same that created wow, but many that worked in wow are working in D3. Also wow's influence nowdays are much bigger then D2 influence when wow were created (both in and outside the company).
Don't get me wrong, i'm not a wow lover and D2 hater >_<'' It's just that i can't see the big similarities between those 2 games, and i've passed years playing then =/
We probably will see more of WoW carrying into D3. I'd bet some of the reasons for it are the increased multiplayer focus of D3, the huge size of WoW as a game (its probably contains 4 games worth of design content), that many of the influences from WC3 that will carry into D3 also carried into WoW, and the fact that WoW has made blizzard filthy rich (just imagine what 5+ million monthly subscriptions fees must be like)...
i'm not a wow lover and D2 hater...
Heh I wouldn't suggest that... You can mark someone for a deadman with a comment like that 'round here Though I do think some people need to lighten up on WoW as a whole, I find there are some very huge problems with the way endgame play works in WoW, but its full of many great ideas and features. Ontop of that some of the user created content from mods also deserve a second look for inclusion as well.
It's easy to put a negative spin on D3 features that may come from a game you don't enjoy. Like WoW.
But I think it's important, not only in game design but playing the game, to retain a subjective perspective about features, instead of objective.
"Is this a feature I could enjoy if it was entirely unique to D3? Does it alter my experience positively?"
rather than...
"I don't like this feature because it was in WoW, and I don't like playing WoW."
Blizzard has a lot of good ideas, many of which are already implemented in their current games. Games like WoW, Starcraft, Warcraft 3... uh, Rock N Roll Racing? I say, good on them for taking their own ideas and reusing them when appropriate.
One important thing about progressive game design is that you don't always have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes the wheel is already round. You can't make it rounder.
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Thanks for at least answering with some humor instead of acting like I was asking the dumbest question in the world when I was just playing devil's advocate!
As long there is some sort of limit and I can't carry too much, I will be cool. Just enough to where it does not disrupt game play.
But the more games you play the more you realise your playing a moded version of an already released game. That applys to some games more than others.
I think that with Blizzard being Blizzard, its time for the next jump. The nex-gen genre or gaming/gamer integration system. I think im being a little too optimistic that we'll see such a feature in D3. A feature that stops the world with a unanimous "Holy Shit..." Maybe VR? Haha
When you look at what gets traded in the WoW AH, you'll see what I'm talking about. Its mostly crafting supplies (not likely to apply to diablo3 unless they really do something different for crafting), less useful magic items (mostly for disenchanting, aka crafting), potions (already stated to not play as large of a role in d3), elixers (I'm not even sure if such a thing will exist in d3, as they haven't in previous diablo games), and other small items like darkmoon cards which again nothing of this sort is confirmed for D3. The only things in the AH that do seem to carry over would be runes (glyphs) and magic items (limited to BoE in WoW), so so far the AH doesn't seem to carry much use, which brings in the question how will pricing work in d3?
Well blizzard has said gold will be worth more in D3, but saying something that has previously had essentially no value will be worth more is very vague. In WoW there was plenty of gold sinks from mount costs, repairs (made much more significant from endgame raiding), potions/elixers/scrolls, item enchants, crafting supplies, travel, AH costs, etc... Diablo games however don't have the same level of demand on gold in order to play, nor has nearly enough been annouced in order to start assuming that this will change. So if gold, the working currency for the AH system, is not worth much, then why would items be sold, rather then traded for items that will be more useful.
Unless a balanced economy is created, inflation will make it so selling items will become a net loss of value over time as the amount of gold in circulation increases. So is selling item X for gold (which you already have enough of) worth it when next week it will sell for 2 times that amount? not likely, you'd be better off holding onto it and trading it for an item immediately useful and which will increase in AH gold-sale value at roughly the same rate as the one you traded it for.
This leaves 2 options:
1. They drastically stray from previous diablo games, make a more balanced gold based economy, and import more MMO like elements in order to control this inflation. Which creates new problems like gold sales from outside sources like farmers in WoW, and alienating hardcore Diablo fans. (In all fairness I'm guessing even if gold isn't sold like in WoW, high price items will be)
2. They don't make gold a driving force like in WoW, and in doing so make a functioning AH for any useful items unrealistic, as who wants to trade useful items for less useful gold?
Obviously these are more like 2 extremes of a scale, but my guess is that you'd see them end up closer to option 2. I posted about a 'Trading House' idea, which is one method of allowing the game to remain more similar to daiblo's previous economies, where gold is not the popular medium of trade, by allowing an AH like search tool connect you to items players have made available to trade offers. But in order for them to import an auction house anything like WoW's, much more about Diablo will need to be changed.
but WoW and D3 are made by the same company so i think its fairly reasonable for some gameplay mechanics from WoW to be in D3. As long as they suit the gameplay of D3
Diablo 1 wasn't the first RPG on the market, but I do agree that WoW took what worked from their previous games and built upon it. They are doing this with Diablo 3. If people won't play it just because it shows likeness to a game that was extremely successful then good riddance! Don't play the game - less competition!
How can you criticize a company for being successful then incorperating the best parts of that success into new games? It's a constantly changing dynamic. WoW will be WoW and Diablo 3 will be Diablo 3 regardless of similarities or differences.
Warhammer Online: Mystics - R40/RR41 Goblin Shaman
This sums it all up pretty darn well.
Everything that D3 takes from wow should be great as long as it helps out the game in making it easier to manage and more fun to play its really that simple. Now if there was talk of 40 man bosses where you had tanks, healers and dps then id say yes D3 is the bastard child of wow and D2
Right on!!!!...also nerull is cool
Thanks, I usually use Nerull for my Warlock/Summoner type classes.
Warhammer Online: Mystics - R40/RR41 Goblin Shaman
Biggest initial wow features:
Faction fight - comes from UO.
Mounts - comes from UO and greatly improved by FFXI.
Raiding - comes from EQ.
World PvP - comes from UO.
Talent skill system - comes from anarchy.
Trade skills - comes from UO.
Focus on party and teamwork for leveling up instead of farming - FFXI.
None of those main features of wow are found in diablo or diablo 2.
Again mounts predate the entire MMO Genre, and don't require a source, people have long rode on animals, and featuring that in a game is a matter of common sense. Though I'm sure your talking about more the method in which they were implemented.
While I can't confirm raiding comes from EQ, I don't doubt your right
Again don't doubt your right, though its not an original idea, Diablo predates OU and had an online PvP system
The WoW talent skill system definately built off of the system in D2, perhaps anarchy online built off of diablo 2's skill system? after all it did come out a year before AO.
Again don't doubt
As I pointed out, some of them definitely are found in D2. Why not take it back even further to table top games that all MMO's built off of? You can keep going back, but all these features are built off of the foundation of predecessors which built off of history and myths. The more you look at it the more you realise originality is a rare commodity. I really don't disagree with most of what you said, it's just that its easy to oversimplify the inspiration for different games features.
I'm not talking about the story of man kind or RTS. I'm talking about MMORPGs and RPGs with a strong online community like diablo. When i say wow get mounts from FFXI it's because the way it works are very very similar. Not only wow, but almost all mmorpgs add a mount system after FFXI, and all those system works the same in most cases.
The same happens with the other features.
The fact is Diablo lacks the most popular and important wow features, that in many cases, comes from other mmorpgs.
And WoW is basically a combination of most of the great RPG elements from other games. But you can not debate that it has a strong D2 influence. Does anyone know if someone who worked/works on WoW worked on D2?
I always felt that WoW incorporated too many previous MMO standards rather then doing a great deal to push the genre's boundaries. My main beef is the standard heal-tank-dps based aggro system... Overall its pretty boring, and healers/tanks never perform as well as DPS outside of parties, only creating a great imbalance of character roles. Same with the way in which the economy and binding drops. Though my guess is they didn't stray too far as the set up is generally stable (aka easy). Hopefully with the new unnanouced MMO they will take a more groundbreaking approach to the genre. WoW was after all their first, and MMO's are notoriously unforgiving if you don't have it set up well to begin.
But for an ARPG they did import an awful lot of diablo's content including the random item drop system, many skills and abilities, the skill (talent) tree. And many of WC3's feature that carried over were even more D1/2 inspired. Says a lot about d2 as a game, blizzards approach to game design, and how much we can expect to see WoW influence d3.
Yeah I remenber now a diablo's influence in the rare drops and the prefix/suffix system in some uncommon items. But this items plays a very small role in wow (thats why i totally forgotten they existance lol)... Epics are not that random. Actually the raid boss loot are very limited, they allways drop about the same amount of epics and the loot table for those epics are small.
Though the diablo's concept of skill tree are used in wow's talent tree, the whole concept is very different. In wow you get your skills by trainning with NPC. You use your points to enchance the skills. This bring a tremendous difference between diablo's and wow, both in gameplay and in customisation.
What I'm trying to say is that diablo 1 and 2 really have a heavy influence in the ocidental rpgs. Naturally wow have some of this influence, but thats it. WoW are not specially influenced by Diablo... You can find much more influence of general MMO in WoW and many other games more influenced by diablo then WoW. Thats why imo the bound between wow and diablo are very weak.
Imo D3 will be much more influenced by WoW then WoW by D2. It's prety obvious, once the team that created D2 are not the same that created wow, but many that worked in wow are working in D3. Also wow's influence nowdays are much bigger then D2 influence when wow were created (both in and outside the company).
Don't get me wrong, i'm not a wow lover and D2 hater >_<'' It's just that i can't see the big similarities between those 2 games, and i've passed years playing then =/
Heh I wouldn't suggest that... You can mark someone for a deadman with a comment like that 'round here Though I do think some people need to lighten up on WoW as a whole, I find there are some very huge problems with the way endgame play works in WoW, but its full of many great ideas and features. Ontop of that some of the user created content from mods also deserve a second look for inclusion as well.
But I think it's important, not only in game design but playing the game, to retain a subjective perspective about features, instead of objective.
"Is this a feature I could enjoy if it was entirely unique to D3? Does it alter my experience positively?"
rather than...
"I don't like this feature because it was in WoW, and I don't like playing WoW."
Blizzard has a lot of good ideas, many of which are already implemented in their current games. Games like WoW, Starcraft, Warcraft 3... uh, Rock N Roll Racing? I say, good on them for taking their own ideas and reusing them when appropriate.
One important thing about progressive game design is that you don't always have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes the wheel is already round. You can't make it rounder.