So I was checking out the new stuff at Blizzard.com, and was disappointed to see this entry:
…can the tales of the brave Horadrim and the Lords of the Burning Hells be more than legend…
Diablo II made clear that Deckard Cain was in fact the last of the Horadrim, sent to Tristram to guard over the place where Diablo had been imprisoned. Somehow Blizzard is unaware of their own game’s canon.
I loved the first two games in this series and would really like to like this one as well, but things like this are very telling of the fact that most of the Diablo team is gone.
I read once that Cain was taught all of the legends and training and such but was really young and didn't believe a lot of it. Only when demons started to show up in Tristram did he realize that they weren't just stories.
…can the tales of the brave Horadrim and the Lords of the Burning Hells be more than legend…
Either
1) Refer to Shisous post about Deckard Cains original teachings
2) or, Many of the population of Sanctuary in the past 20 years since the destruction of the Worldstone have dismissed the ideas of demons and Hell again. Over the past 20 years they have convinced themselves that what happened was just somehow only legend. I'm sure Diablo 3 will bring more clarification on this aspect, as you go around talking to people and whatnot. Even Deckard Cain says "No one ever listens to me..."
this is the very beginning of the diablo series being told. If you listen to it all it makes sense. He says that, and then right after he says how he is a fool and how lazarus led a group of people to "their horrific end" (aka the butcher). I'm replaying Diablo 1 right now
So I was checking out the new stuff at Blizzard.com, and was disappointed to see this entry:
…can the tales of the brave Horadrim and the Lords of the Burning Hells be more than legend…
Diablo II made clear that Deckard Cain was in fact the last of the Horadrim, sent to Tristram to guard over the place where Diablo had been imprisoned. Somehow Blizzard is unaware of their own game’s canon.
I loved the first two games in this series and would really like to like this one as well, but things like this are very telling of the fact that most of the Diablo team is gone.
Well a company like Blizzard can't have missed such an obvious "flaw" in the story. So maybe, there is going to be a twist in the story ;).
Ahh... The lost Horadric Scroll! What a fortunate turn of events... As the last living Horadrim, I alone have knowledge of its meaning.
Most the remaining Horadric merged themselves into mage clans from what I understand of the lore and the rest are all dead, passed on.
I think the most strangest thing is that cain is still alive after all these years, he was old in the first game but to be pretty much the same after the whole fifty years? somethings up with that.
And yeah, I don't see a problem here. Even though there are many Christians alive today, do you still believe that Jesus rose from the grave? Its a similar situation with the Horadrim.
Ahh... The lost Horadric Scroll! What a fortunate turn of events... As the last living Horadrim, I alone have knowledge of its meaning.
Most the remaining Horadric merged themselves into mage clans from what I understand of the lore and the rest are all dead, passed on.
I think the most strangest thing is that cain is still alive after all these years, he was old in the first game but to be pretty much the same after the whole fifty years? somethings up with that.
ZOMG CAIN IS TEH ANGEL LOLZORZ
First post on the board... what a great first impression eh?
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~Destruction shall rain from the sky, and terror shall engulf all who live... The Age of Reckoning has come.~
It's not a lapse in Blizzard's memory regarding the lore.
It's Cain, near the beginning of the events that transpired in Tristram just prior to, and during Diablo, thinking to himself that perhaps the stories his mother told to him of his people as he was growing up might actually be more than mere legends; that they might be true -- something he apparently doubted prior to that moment of reflection.
2) or, Many of the population of Sanctuary in the past 20 years since the destruction of the Worldstone have dismissed the ideas of demons and Hell again. Over the past 20 years they have convinced themselves that what happened was just somehow only legend. I'm sure Diablo 3 will bring more clarification on this aspect, as you go around talking to people and whatnot. Even Deckard Cain says "No one ever listens to me..."
thats what was said by Jay Wilson about the lore of the game. That the things that happened in the past were considered legend and Deckard Cain was considered half-mad for believing that the Hell would invade.
when did 20 years make some event a legend?
and the destruction of the world stone is not just some one kill some daemon it is event that changed the world.
hm...... Wat if the destruction of the world stone some how erased peoples minds?
500 years ago if a meteor crashed into spain, then word traveled slowly to China over the next 20 years I would imagine people in China might think it is merely a legend. When news isn't instant and you only hear accounts from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend...it's easier to doubt. Purple monkey dishwasher.
play diablo 1 and then play diablo 2...after that read this manual...it is SIMPLY a retelling of the first two games...that is ALL...they are not telling us anything new, otherwise that would be giving away diablo 3's story, which we wont see until it is released ;).
By the time he reaches Lut Gholein, he OBVIOUSLY realise all the legends were true.
However the journal entry reflects the moment much before the reaching of Lut Gholein as if it was written as the story unveils, and not retroactively, which makes your entire point invalid as well as the remainder of this topic.
His longevity was supposed to have been because he was a Horadrim mage. It's like Ren says above--check your DII--Cain's a Horadrim, and so thinking that the Horadrim are only a legend makes absolutely zero sense regardless of when in the timeline this takes place, unless he's a teenager and it's before the mage wars and the capture of Diablo at Tristram, whcih still makes no sense.
So anyway you slice it somebody screwed up. It would be good if someone on the team understood the entire story and could advise on continuity.
As to this being a twist in the story--the only twist that could work is the cheesy soap-opera cliche amnesia. I'd rather they just got it wrong than that they pulled something as lame as that.
Again i fail to see the problem. If the guy above me is relating this to the books (in real life) i have never read those. But as far as the games go, the story has not been screwed up in the least. If you are saying that this entry in the journal is a mess up because of D3 you are WRONG, as it is him writing in his journal JUST BEFORE THE EVENTS OF DIABLO 1!!!!!!!! So if it is F'd up according to the books (i have no idea), it has always been this way, and if not it is perfectly fine.
cain started to realize all of it was true during the story of Diablo 1, which comes right after this passage.
Just read some of the posts I must have missed before.
A couple of things. This is Cain's journal we're talking about. It's his point of view. He's one of the Horadrim (http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Deckard_Cain tells this story--I'm not making this up and neither are they). He's related to Jered Cain, whose involvement is pretty explicit (again look here to see if I'm making this up http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Jered_Cain). he fought in the mage wars, he has been sent to Tristram from the deserts near Lut Gholein to guard the spot where Diablo has been imprisoned, just as Tal Rasha guards Baal. All of this is in Diablo II, and HIS JOURNAL contains none of this information.
Apparently, Blizzard is making just the kind of lame story change I was worried they might--Diablo Wiki's entry on Deckard Cain continues:
"Cain's journal is published as lore. His journal reveals that while Cain dreamt of being the last of the Horadrim, he is in fact not. It tells the events of Diablo and Diablo II in an abbreviated form and suggests numerous times that Cain was an elder and lorekeeper from Tristram, without much prior knowledge of the outside world - a stark contrast to the well-versed and knowledgable "last of the Horadrim" loremaster of Diablo and Diablo II. It is also strongly implied that Cain had no previous knowledge of the Worldstone prior to the events of the Diablo II ending.
It is unknown whether Cain lied when he presented himself as "the last of the Horadrim", and his reasons for doing so, that he had given himself a self assuming title, instead of what would be his proper title 'Last of the Horadrim in Tristram' or suffers from (possibly age-induced) dementia or Alzheimer's. The fact that the Archangel Tyrael also refers to him as the "Last of the Horadrim" further clouds the issue"
Even these guys aren't really buying this change up. I think they did forget and then had their error pointed out to them and patched it up pathetically.
Yeah Snow, you're not getting it. Cain was a Horadrim BEFORE the events in Diablo I. He was specifically sent to Tristram to guard Diablo who had been imprisoned there BEFORE the events in Diablo I. Diablo's imprisonment in Tristram is the CAUSE of the events in Diablo I. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but I think this is pretty clear.
All of this is related in Diablos I & II, not in books.
Apparently Deckard and Tyrael both had to have had amnesia so that this change of story for Diablo III could make sense.
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…can the tales of the brave Horadrim and the Lords of the Burning Hells be more than legend…
Diablo II made clear that Deckard Cain was in fact the last of the Horadrim, sent to Tristram to guard over the place where Diablo had been imprisoned. Somehow Blizzard is unaware of their own game’s canon.
I loved the first two games in this series and would really like to like this one as well, but things like this are very telling of the fact that most of the Diablo team is gone.
Either
1) Refer to Shisous post about Deckard Cains original teachings
2) or, Many of the population of Sanctuary in the past 20 years since the destruction of the Worldstone have dismissed the ideas of demons and Hell again. Over the past 20 years they have convinced themselves that what happened was just somehow only legend. I'm sure Diablo 3 will bring more clarification on this aspect, as you go around talking to people and whatnot. Even Deckard Cain says "No one ever listens to me..."
Well a company like Blizzard can't have missed such an obvious "flaw" in the story. So maybe, there is going to be a twist in the story ;).
Most the remaining Horadric merged themselves into mage clans from what I understand of the lore and the rest are all dead, passed on.
I think the most strangest thing is that cain is still alive after all these years, he was old in the first game but to be pretty much the same after the whole fifty years? somethings up with that.
And yeah, I don't see a problem here. Even though there are many Christians alive today, do you still believe that Jesus rose from the grave? Its a similar situation with the Horadrim.
ZOMG CAIN IS TEH ANGEL LOLZORZ
First post on the board... what a great first impression eh?
Where there is truth, he must find.
Where there is destruction, he must rebuild.
Where there is love, he must protect."
World's Fair Exhibit
"God gave us memories, that in life's garden we may have June roses in December."
John Barrie
That "entry" is on page two of Deckard Cain's journal.
It's not a lapse in Blizzard's memory regarding the lore.
It's Cain, near the beginning of the events that transpired in Tristram just prior to, and during Diablo, thinking to himself that perhaps the stories his mother told to him of his people as he was growing up might actually be more than mere legends; that they might be true -- something he apparently doubted prior to that moment of reflection.
thats what was said by Jay Wilson about the lore of the game. That the things that happened in the past were considered legend and Deckard Cain was considered half-mad for believing that the Hell would invade.
500 years ago if a meteor crashed into spain, then word traveled slowly to China over the next 20 years I would imagine people in China might think it is merely a legend. When news isn't instant and you only hear accounts from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend...it's easier to doubt. Purple monkey dishwasher.
So anyway you slice it somebody screwed up. It would be good if someone on the team understood the entire story and could advise on continuity.
As to this being a twist in the story--the only twist that could work is the cheesy soap-opera cliche amnesia. I'd rather they just got it wrong than that they pulled something as lame as that.
cain started to realize all of it was true during the story of Diablo 1, which comes right after this passage.
A couple of things. This is Cain's journal we're talking about. It's his point of view. He's one of the Horadrim (http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Deckard_Cain tells this story--I'm not making this up and neither are they). He's related to Jered Cain, whose involvement is pretty explicit (again look here to see if I'm making this up http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Jered_Cain). he fought in the mage wars, he has been sent to Tristram from the deserts near Lut Gholein to guard the spot where Diablo has been imprisoned, just as Tal Rasha guards Baal. All of this is in Diablo II, and HIS JOURNAL contains none of this information.
Apparently, Blizzard is making just the kind of lame story change I was worried they might--Diablo Wiki's entry on Deckard Cain continues:
"Cain's journal is published as lore. His journal reveals that while Cain dreamt of being the last of the Horadrim, he is in fact not. It tells the events of Diablo and Diablo II in an abbreviated form and suggests numerous times that Cain was an elder and lorekeeper from Tristram, without much prior knowledge of the outside world - a stark contrast to the well-versed and knowledgable "last of the Horadrim" loremaster of Diablo and Diablo II. It is also strongly implied that Cain had no previous knowledge of the Worldstone prior to the events of the Diablo II ending.
It is unknown whether Cain lied when he presented himself as "the last of the Horadrim", and his reasons for doing so, that he had given himself a self assuming title, instead of what would be his proper title 'Last of the Horadrim in Tristram' or suffers from (possibly age-induced) dementia or Alzheimer's. The fact that the Archangel Tyrael also refers to him as the "Last of the Horadrim" further clouds the issue"
Even these guys aren't really buying this change up. I think they did forget and then had their error pointed out to them and patched it up pathetically.
Yeah Snow, you're not getting it. Cain was a Horadrim BEFORE the events in Diablo I. He was specifically sent to Tristram to guard Diablo who had been imprisoned there BEFORE the events in Diablo I. Diablo's imprisonment in Tristram is the CAUSE of the events in Diablo I. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but I think this is pretty clear.
All of this is related in Diablos I & II, not in books.
Apparently Deckard and Tyrael both had to have had amnesia so that this change of story for Diablo III could make sense.