Jay Wilson is messin everything up >_< Who plays an online game with just THREE other guys?? 6 people parties should be the bare minimum. Wasn't he the one who wanted to promote cooperation and community? This is the opposite of cooperatio and community!
This isn't a MMORPG so 4 people isn't too bad to me.
Community wouldn't be established through games as much as the new battle.net chatting functions anyways I wouldn't think.
Besides 4 was the limit for the demo and they said they are looking at 8 for the final game. Most of the community in D2 was the chat rooms imo rather than the games. At least in the earlier days.. nowadays the community is a bit destroyed. Many times you were in a game where you hardly knew anyone, but then you hang around in a chat room where the people that you knew also were.
I don't think they said they're removing it all together. Maybe that small function but PvP will still be alive in some way or another. Most likely PvP games that allow more players.
Nah, the hostility function as we know it is completely gone, and that has been confirmed. Both players will have to agree to become hostile before they can attack one another.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Let's just take a minute to look at 8 player games in D2. A majority of them were entitled baal01, fastbaals001, or telebaal0001. A minority were entitled duelz, epicduelz, or duelarena. Rush games usually never shot above 4 or 5 from my experience, usually it was just 2. Now lets take the concept of grinding baals. 8 people in a throne room without any cooperative coordinating, just a room full of spam. The barrier may have to do with the wonky chat system, but I feel it has more to do with the 8 man team being unweildy in close quarters combat. Now Imagine you and 3 of your friends communicating through audio in order to create a clear tactical plan of attack. I think those are the bounds of strategy in a diablo like game. When you go over 4 it just turns into a cluster fuck. Now as long as they have a pvp arena there should be no reason to complain (unless pvp is p2p).
I wouldn't really like an 8 player game. It would become completely chaotic. A blur of colour that nobody in the game could decipher. The option to increase the number of players in a game could be there, but the system requirements would shoot up and it would penalize everyone who could only play in games with less players due to a limitations on their systems. I would say 4 is probably the optimal number judging by the gameplay video. It will accommodate most players (with the exception of PVP which I'm sure they will work out) and I can just imagine that feeling of tightness and bonding while question--possibly with built-in mic features!
Jay Wilson is wrong. He is misinterpreting that statistic. The reason why the average game size is 1.2 players is because of magic finding (accumulating rare items). The most popular way to magic find was to make a game and quickly kill a boss like Mephisto. So what people do is make a game, kill Mephisto, quit, and remake. You have thousands of people doing this and the frequency of magic find games becomes very high. Each game only has 1 person in it, the magic finder, so it makes sense that the average game size is around 1.
When people want to level and quest then full games are preferred to maximize the amount of experience gained. People would work together for longer periods of time, even hours when trying to advance through acts, and therefore the frequency of these games is very low.
The fact is that people DID work, quest together, and level together. In HC, questing games were the most difficult to join because they were always full!
To address the average game size of 1.2 players and blame it on hostility and playing killing is wrong. Anyone who seriously played the game knows this. Player killers were something to deal with but everyone would deal with them together. Hostility and playing killing does not take away but adds another dynamic to the game. The real issue for this statistic has nothing to do with player killing, but has everything to do with magic find and loot.
100% agreed, that is a complete misinterpretation of a statistic and a complete misunderstanding of how Diablo 2 was played. Someone can do a meph run in about 2 minutes, pindle run in like 30 seconds. A thousand people doing that will completely skew the stats, especially when the cooperative games are going to last over an hour in the case of coop questing. 1 long cooperative game of 8 people will get completely lost in the stats when it is up against 8 people doing pindle runs...8*120=960 games vs 1 game. And in each case its 8 people getting entertained for the same amount of time. I'm not a HC player, but not once did I choose solo because I was afraid of getting PKed. It was always that I couldn't find someone on the same quest or I was mfing and didnt need other people slowing me down.
The only reason it wasn't 1.01 was because of baal runs.
I remember being in an 8-player game, at least 4 of whom were summon-based. My awesome computer dropped to like 3 frames-per-second.
4 players is an acceptable size. I'll miss 8-player frenzies, but I won't suffer without them.
The point behind the 1.2 players per game statistic is that, regardless of the reasons, many people just don't care to play together. Many of the reasons listed are fairly accurate. I found myself playing by myself on Battle.net simply because I grew tired of having to fight for my drops (I played a lot of Bowazons). I also grew tired of others' outright lack of cooperation. I'd start a game called "Act 3 NO RUSH", and someone would jump to Travincial and start killing; they'd message me, "You comin'? Hurry up!" So, I just quit and start another one.
All in all, there just was not enough incentive to work with people. I hope that Diablo 3 introduces some monsters that truly almost require multiplayer cooperation to take down. I'm a bit tired of the one-man show (aside from Single Player, obviously).
So, what has Blizzard done to fix this? The individual loot is a big improvement. Yes, some people liked "being first" and "feeling the rush of trying to be first", but this new system encourages groups, and I like that. I'm sure whatever the final game holds will work out great. I'm really eager to see Battle.net 2.0. The original Battle.net had so many fundamental problems (TOO MUCH COMMAND-LINE JUNK).
JW is out of touch. Would you really play by yourself for fear of someone going hostile on you?! Yea... maybe if you are 10.
And, if you are going to look at the game's stats of who is playing. Then look at the stats when the game was still newly released. Everyone was playing together. --Full cow games! moo.
I think recent statistics are plenty valid. There are still thousands of Diablo 2 players; why aren't they playing together? Sure, more players played together when the game first came out (because multiplayer is just fun), but obviously something caused a major decline. Many of those players are on the same servers; why won't they play together? I'm sure Blizzard's hope is that people still play together in Diablo 3 even after a decade has passed.
the plain fact is that yes, people are playing with no other people. his stats of 1.2 players per game is probably right. usually because they are mfing. ur right, that its usually not the reason of people hostiling you. however i cant say that every here and there i got a random host. the point is to encourage people to play with a party. i see that the strain twards not being able to mf as easily i.e. changes in teleport, will benefit the overall economy. his main point is that people are playing together. another reason he says so that people wont steal ur shit. which they have fixed.
i think the point is that 10000000000000000 mfing games are made a day, and not even close to as many party games are made... but the party games are what people stay in for hours on end and have fun. also you see alot of full duel games... people love to duel
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DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
Jay Wilson is wrong. He is misinterpreting that statistic. The reason why the average game size is 1.2 players is because of magic finding (accumulating rare items). The most popular way to magic find was to make a game and quickly kill a boss like Mephisto. So what people do is make a game, kill Mephisto, quit, and remake. You have thousands of people doing this and the frequency of magic find games becomes very high. Each game only has 1 person in it, the magic finder, so it makes sense that the average game size is around 1.
When people want to level and quest then full games are preferred to maximize the amount of experience gained. People would work together for longer periods of time, even hours when trying to advance through acts, and therefore the frequency of these games is very low.
The fact is that people DID work, quest together, and level together. In HC, questing games were the most difficult to join because they were always full!
To address the average game size of 1.2 players and blame it on hostility and playing killing is wrong. Anyone who seriously played the game knows this. Player killers were something to deal with but everyone would deal with them together. Hostility and playing killing does not take away but adds another dynamic to the game. The real issue for this statistic has nothing to do with player killing, but has everything to do with magic find and loot.
This is so obvious to anyone that has ever played Diablo that it goes without saying. For the Lead Developer not to realize this is mind boggling. So this is the reason to eliminate PK (I don't care) and one reason (the other is lag due to all the new bright new FX)to propose much reduced maximum players per game. Simply amazing.
On the subject of people not playing together...this is a seperate idea apart from Jay Wilson's dumb comment.
They should implement some sort of filter where you can search for games only made by people of similar level or only games made by people who just completed the same quest as you or only games made by people on the same act as you...you get my point. The lack of good filtering hurt cooperation a lot more than 'fear of PK' did.
Wow JW is quite stupid if he thinks that. I'm sorry but you get that stat because everyone is MFing, as said above if your questiing or level the game is packed or 4-5 people joined.
GEEZ!
Well now they want people to MF together instead of avoiding each other.
I mostly play solo because the game punishes you for party play instead of rewarding you. Every fucktard could ruin your quests and pick up your loot. The only thing that people banded together to do were Baal runs, and there was nothing cooperative or fun about them - and it is still extremely hard to get a full game going.
I'm surprised that it's 1.2 - I would have assumed from personal experience that it's more closer to 1.02.
GEEZ!
Well now they want people to MF together instead of avoiding each other.
I mostly play solo because the game punishes you for party play instead of rewarding you. Every fucktard could ruin your quests and pick up your loot. The only thing that people banded together to do were Baal runs, and there was nothing cooperative or fun about them - and it is still extremely hard to get a full game going.
I'm surprised that it's 1.2 - I would have assumed from personal experience that it's more closer to 1.02.
i agree more to this than most of the previous posts (i havent read all but most).
myself as a hardcore player, avoided the open games with people i didnt know. One life and the items i worked hard to get were too valuable to loose for a TK PKer or anyone for that matter. I only played in private games with certain people when i found them online, which wasnt that often.
Also the fact that every melee character grabbed every loot that was usually usefull to everyone (who wouldnt want a shako, stormshield, tals armor, high rune or whatever shiny) was also a nono for me. As a sorc i rarely went close cause in Hell i could easily get 1 shot.
4 people games and shared loot will make the groups more solid and encourage that very thing. Also the lack of random hostilities will eliminate PKing which is extremely useful in Hardcore games (that i'm most interested in).
I can't wait for these changes. There was nothing more annoying than people coming into games, hostiling everyone, and spamming "Duel Me!" Hardcore was played almost exclusively alone the whole way through because of how lame people were online.
Bring on the changes that make playing with a group fun. Give PvPers their own little arena games where they can run around and kill each other over and over while insulting each other with racial slurs and "your Momma" jokes.
Yes, the statistic is deceptive because of Magic Find....but you'll still be able to MF alone so why complain? Go enjoy your repetitive gaming sessions. I'll be in close knit groups where people are working together.
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This isn't a MMORPG so 4 people isn't too bad to me.
Community wouldn't be established through games as much as the new battle.net chatting functions anyways I wouldn't think.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Nah, the hostility function as we know it is completely gone, and that has been confirmed. Both players will have to agree to become hostile before they can attack one another.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
and you are wrong
Thanks.
In Diablo 3, mf will be in coop.
100% agreed, that is a complete misinterpretation of a statistic and a complete misunderstanding of how Diablo 2 was played. Someone can do a meph run in about 2 minutes, pindle run in like 30 seconds. A thousand people doing that will completely skew the stats, especially when the cooperative games are going to last over an hour in the case of coop questing. 1 long cooperative game of 8 people will get completely lost in the stats when it is up against 8 people doing pindle runs...8*120=960 games vs 1 game. And in each case its 8 people getting entertained for the same amount of time. I'm not a HC player, but not once did I choose solo because I was afraid of getting PKed. It was always that I couldn't find someone on the same quest or I was mfing and didnt need other people slowing me down.
The only reason it wasn't 1.01 was because of baal runs.
4 players is an acceptable size. I'll miss 8-player frenzies, but I won't suffer without them.
The point behind the 1.2 players per game statistic is that, regardless of the reasons, many people just don't care to play together. Many of the reasons listed are fairly accurate. I found myself playing by myself on Battle.net simply because I grew tired of having to fight for my drops (I played a lot of Bowazons). I also grew tired of others' outright lack of cooperation. I'd start a game called "Act 3 NO RUSH", and someone would jump to Travincial and start killing; they'd message me, "You comin'? Hurry up!" So, I just quit and start another one.
All in all, there just was not enough incentive to work with people. I hope that Diablo 3 introduces some monsters that truly almost require multiplayer cooperation to take down. I'm a bit tired of the one-man show (aside from Single Player, obviously).
So, what has Blizzard done to fix this? The individual loot is a big improvement. Yes, some people liked "being first" and "feeling the rush of trying to be first", but this new system encourages groups, and I like that. I'm sure whatever the final game holds will work out great. I'm really eager to see Battle.net 2.0. The original Battle.net had so many fundamental problems (TOO MUCH COMMAND-LINE JUNK).
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
And, if you are going to look at the game's stats of who is playing. Then look at the stats when the game was still newly released. Everyone was playing together. --Full cow games! moo.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
the more the merrier but 5 (at least) seems like such a no brainer
Manitoba's biggest Diablo fan!
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
This is so obvious to anyone that has ever played Diablo that it goes without saying. For the Lead Developer not to realize this is mind boggling. So this is the reason to eliminate PK (I don't care) and one reason (the other is lag due to all the new bright new FX)to propose much reduced maximum players per game. Simply amazing.
They should implement some sort of filter where you can search for games only made by people of similar level or only games made by people who just completed the same quest as you or only games made by people on the same act as you...you get my point. The lack of good filtering hurt cooperation a lot more than 'fear of PK' did.
Well now they want people to MF together instead of avoiding each other.
I mostly play solo because the game punishes you for party play instead of rewarding you. Every fucktard could ruin your quests and pick up your loot. The only thing that people banded together to do were Baal runs, and there was nothing cooperative or fun about them - and it is still extremely hard to get a full game going.
I'm surprised that it's 1.2 - I would have assumed from personal experience that it's more closer to 1.02.
i agree more to this than most of the previous posts (i havent read all but most).
myself as a hardcore player, avoided the open games with people i didnt know. One life and the items i worked hard to get were too valuable to loose for a TK PKer or anyone for that matter. I only played in private games with certain people when i found them online, which wasnt that often.
Also the fact that every melee character grabbed every loot that was usually usefull to everyone (who wouldnt want a shako, stormshield, tals armor, high rune or whatever shiny) was also a nono for me. As a sorc i rarely went close cause in Hell i could easily get 1 shot.
4 people games and shared loot will make the groups more solid and encourage that very thing. Also the lack of random hostilities will eliminate PKing which is extremely useful in Hardcore games (that i'm most interested in).
Bring on the changes that make playing with a group fun. Give PvPers their own little arena games where they can run around and kill each other over and over while insulting each other with racial slurs and "your Momma" jokes.
Yes, the statistic is deceptive because of Magic Find....but you'll still be able to MF alone so why complain? Go enjoy your repetitive gaming sessions. I'll be in close knit groups where people are working together.