Please EVERYONE stick with the facts and points rather than blaming it on "whiners" and "noobs". If you find yourself reading your post and you see a lot of this type of content, edit it or be more careful in the future.
I can't believe that Blizzard is so inclined to support all the people who whine. They're making everything automatic because someone "hates it when they make a mistake distributing attributes and have to recreate". The reason you made a mistake is because you're retarded. So you made a mistake, you don't have to recreate, it just means you're not perfect.
Blizzard! Please stop trying to build a Utopia. Let people remain individuals and choose how they wanna play. Let people make mistakes, that way if they play the game longer, they become better and more knowledgeable. instead you're letting every noob be pro because you've already handled everything through automation. Laaaaaaaame.
Stats either offered you more damage, block, hit rating, health or mana. The only customization you actually NEEDED from a Player vs monster aspect was to allow you to measure up to the standards required to kill something in Hell. You could do it by tanking a few more hits, making a few more hits, blocking a few more spells/hits, or spamming a bit more.
By auto assigning points...what are you losing? You're just being automatically prepared to handle hell mode without having to screw it up. You instead have to focus on what combination of spells and what tactics to use with your new runed skills and talented abilities.
Give and Take...it's happening...Open eyes please.
More focus on finding the items that complete the same effect. How this works out remains to be seen, but you can hardly argue that it means failure, just like you can't guarantee that it will work perfectly. We will just have to wait and see how far Blizz works with the gear to bring customization back in this form.
Just wanted to respond to a couple of points here. We all agree that D3 is NOT WoW, however, in going to auto-stats, item modifiers and the wording/type of skill trees, its very apparent that WoW devs (who are on the D3 team) are allowing a lot of cross-pollination. Whether this is good or not remains to be seen, but personally, I'd like the games to remain distinct from each other, and not blend into each other so much that they each become advertising vehicles for the other.
You seem to not care about runes, but those runes can add to these spells in such ways: Lengthening their casting, make the spell multiply attacks or spells (cast more bolts, mirror images and such), enhance the damage for a start, with many more variations in the works. They also come in different qualities, so players in later difficulties won't be using those found at the beginning. Runes can be used both on defensive and offensive skills. I wouldn't call this slight customization, I'd rather refer to it as being able to choose which way your spell can be used effectively. Do this to every skill you run across and there is little reason to declare the system as "less freedom".
I'd rather have 30 skills with multiple D2-esque synergies than 15 or fewer skills with WoW style synergies. The speed and pacing of Diablo just doesn't mesh well with WoW. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, "a rose by any other name is still a rose..." Customizing one spell 15 different ways doesn't make Frost Nova look or work different, it just enhances the effects. Going from more to less is less.
Granted, its gone. The tetris effect only became so big after people were unwilling to clear out their inventories, instead keeping it 80% full with charms and scrolls.
This was a problem of design with the charm system, it could have easily been a different inventory, such as a keyring style window. The block inventory is more realistic because it forces you to make choices about what you can carry, I'd love to see the same system with the number of blocks modified by your strength score. WoW's inventory allowing you to carry tens of armor pieces and weapons is just unbelievable at best.
Also something that Blizzard is removing, however indirectly. With stats being predetermined differently for each class, not all classes will find the same item equally useful. Also, the goal is to reduce the performance of selfmade gear to a point where random drops matter more again
First, all members of a particular class will find items equally useful. Since every Wizard for example cannot be made into a meleesorc ala D2, every Wizard will farm the Occulus equivalent in D3. So instead of seeing Stormshield using Wizards, ALL Stormshields will go to Barbs since they're the ONLY ones who can use it. You're really just spreading the problem, not fixing it. Selfmade gear's performance wasn't a fault of the attribute system, it was Blizz devs releasing overpowered runewords that destroyed playbalance and then not doing anything about it. I mean, seriously, Teleport on a runeword armor? The one thing you don't do in a game is to give unique class features to any character via items. Unless there are some penalties or other disadvantage to counteract this.
A good example, again in WoW is the ability for Engineers to make explosives to blow up locks, giving basically any class the ability to Pick Locks, a Rogue only ability. However, the disadvantage is the loss of one of your primary professions on one that is a money sink and primarily geared towards PvP, and inferior as a money maker compared to professions such as Alchemy or even the basic gathering professions.
While I am convinced that Blizzard has mentioned a PvP system that may include arenas, I haven't read any of this lately. At any rate, PvPer are discouraged from PKing groups by simply not allowing them to. If there is indeed a system for PvP being worked on, I see no problem for anyone.
This is one thing Blizzard SHOULD take a hint from WoW on. Instanced play in D3 replaces WoW persistent servers, so a VERY simple fix is to allow the player to determine whether PvP is allowed and to what extent on game creation. Simple tickboxes would suffice, such as:
PvP Free For All - Everyone is vulnerable at any time,
Consentual PvP - Same as a duel, both players must agree
No PvP - cannot take place anywhere in the game.
You could still have town "safe zones" which would be especially useful for FFA servers and Ironman matches. Fixes every problem with PvP, gives the control to the player, and everyone is happy.
Finally, to those that say the whiners should leave, die in a fire, or other similarly horrible fates, this is discussion about a game. Get some perspective, and respect a poster's right to express his or her opinion.
I'd rather have 30 skills with multiple D2-esque synergies than 15 or fewer skills with WoW style synergies. The speed and pacing of Diablo just doesn't mesh well with WoW. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, "a rose by any other name is still a rose..." Customizing one spell 15 different ways doesn't make Frost Nova look or work different, it just enhances the effects. Going from more to less is less.
D2 skills has been sucking hard ever since LOD came.. and especially in 1.10 that brought the idiotic synergies.
As I said before.. keep playing your precious D2, the time you use to whine about D3 you can use to level up another char in D2.
D2 skills has been sucking hard ever since LOD came.. and especially in 1.10 that brought the idiotic synergies.
Wait, so you're saying synergies "suck hard" but you're ok with how they're developing the D3 system? Are you a forum ostrich?
As I said before.. keep playing your precious D2, the time you use to whine about D3 you can use to level up another char in D2.
I'm so happy D3 is so different than D2.
I haven't played D2 in a long time, I've moved on to other things quite a long time ago. I'm sure once D3 comes out in all its WoW pay to play glory, you'll be self-congratulating yourself on just how much of a sheep you are.
I, on the other hand, will continue to voice my concerns and criticisms in the hopes that D3 does not end up a suckfest, which is the direction its rapidly approaching, from what Jay is saying anyway. You go ahead and continue being the nice little bootlicker.
yet again someone thinking the minority is right... Blizzard doesnt give a fuck about the minority, they are going for the things that make the MAJORITY of the ppl to come play their game. they dont care if they offend "long time" (bullshit btw) fans as long as they make money. the thing that ppl dont seem to see (imo) is that blizzard doesnt really care about what ppl dont like about the game (to the most part)
sure they may pay attention when A LOT of ppl start bitching and complain about some aspect of the game but when a small group complain about how theydont like that it will be p2p or they rather have something ike d2 ( is d2 anything like d1? not really) they really dont care..
yet again someone thinking the minority is right... Blizzard doesnt give a fuck about the minority, they are going for the things that make the MAJORITY of the ppl to come play their game. they dont care if they offend "long time" (bullshit btw) fans as long as they make money. the thing that ppl dont seem to see (imo) is that blizzard doesnt really care about what ppl dont like about the game (to the most part)
sure they may pay attention when A LOT of ppl start bitching and complain about some aspect of the game but when a small group complain about how theydont like that it will be p2p or they rather have something ike d2 ( is d2 anything like d1? not really) they really dont care..
end rant
When half the threads across various forums all refer to the same issues, then its more than just what a few people believe.
And most game developers use forums now as representative research, that is, they extrapolate the potential reaction by the percentages reported.
So instead of badmouthing people that care to write down their carefully constructed criticisms of the game in an attempt to be helpful and accusing them of "whining" or "QQing" how about you just let them have their say, since its rare for them to tell people like you to leave?
You know, treat others as you would like to be treated?
I haven't played D2 in a long time, I've moved on to other things quite a long time ago. I'm sure once D3 comes out in all its WoW pay to play glory, you'll be self-congratulating yourself on just how much of a sheep you are.
Haha you're my new favorite poster. rofl.
Btw "Nethous"...why does being a longtime fan have to be qualified with (bullshit) in your post. You hopped on the WoW bandwagon and don't like us real fans of blizzard? Well, former fans.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
oh yes i love WoW! /sarcasm i dont even play it. And no im not trying to start crap but, you really have to take into mind that Blizzard is trying to get the most ppl to play their game, and tbh i really dont think if they lose 1 hardcore fan and get 10 other players by making that decison, that they will care if they lost that one HC fan.
and yes i have been playing d2 for the last probably 5 or so years if not more
I would love it if blizzard could make everyone happy but they cant so as i stated above they are going for the majority.
Just wanted to respond to a couple of points here. We all agree that D3 is NOT WoW, however, in going to auto-stats, item modifiers and the wording/type of skill trees, its very apparent that WoW devs (who are on the D3 team) are allowing a lot of cross-pollination. Whether this is good or not remains to be seen, but personally, I'd like the games to remain distinct from each other, and not blend into each other so much that they each become advertising vehicles for the other.
As long as the stories are different then it doesn't make much difference does it? I've never played WoW, but I'm pretty damn sure it's skills ripped off Diablo.
I'd rather have 30 skills with multiple D2-esque synergies than 15 or fewer skills with WoW style synergies. The speed and pacing of Diablo just doesn't mesh well with WoW. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, "a rose by any other name is still a rose..." Customizing one spell 15 different ways doesn't make Frost Nova look or work different, it just enhances the effects. Going from more to less is less.
There are actually more skills this time. I counted 56 for the wiz.
This was a problem of design with the charm system, it could have easily been a different inventory, such as a keyring style window. The block inventory is more realistic because it forces you to make choices about what you can carry, I'd love to see the same system with the number of blocks modified by your strength score. WoW's inventory allowing you to carry tens of armor pieces and weapons is just unbelievable at best.
The new inventory forces you to make decisions too...
First, all members of a particular class will find items equally useful. Since every Wizard for example cannot be made into a meleesorc ala D2, every Wizard will farm the Occulus equivalent in D3. So instead of seeing Stormshield using Wizards, ALL Stormshields will go to Barbs since they're the ONLY ones who can use it. You're really just spreading the problem, not fixing it. Selfmade gear's performance wasn't a fault of the attribute system, it was Blizz devs releasing overpowered runewords that destroyed playbalance and then not doing anything about it. I mean, seriously, Teleport on a runeword armor? The one thing you don't do in a game is to give unique class features to any character via items. Unless there are some penalties or other disadvantage to counteract this.
A horribly narrow minded and unintelligent view. Given that there are more skills and assuming that there are more items with greater diversity, I will have to say that your point is completely invalid. There will be more diverse builds, and therefore different builds may find the occulus equivalent inferior to their particular build. The variants; skill tree, skill empowerment, and gear will give greater customization than; skill tree, stats, and gear. Since stats are really just a boring attribute, the customization is going from 2 fold in d2, to 3 fold in d3(not including sex).
Finally, to those that say the whiners should leave, die in a fire, or other similarly horrible fates, this is discussion about a game. Get some perspective, and respect a poster's right to express his or her opinion.
It's not the whiners that piss me off. It's the ignorant bastards like you that spew ill-thought judgements instead of looking at the changes with a truly critical eye, and understanding fully, their implications. Try to think a little harder next time bubby.
It's not the whiners that piss me off. It's the ignorant bastards like you that spew ill-thought judgements instead of looking at the changes with a truly critical eye, and understanding fully, their implications. Try to think a little harder next time bubby.
I'd just like to say to anyone who used the term "long time" or "hardcore" fan READ THE URL. Anyone using this forum is a Diablo fan. And come on. I liked the tetris-style system of the inventory and I'd hate to see the WoW-style inventory. But I'm open to change. Would you prefer to play the exact same Diablo three times with a different amount of I's after it?? I think the change is good. Evolution happens everywhere. Would you have liked to remain an ape rather than evolve to sentient life (aka. humans) juts so you could have fur that keeps you warm?? I highly doubt it. Diablo can't stay the same as always to satisfy a few people. Although it doesn't mean that those few people are as much of a minority as people keep saying. Anyway everything I've seen so far about DIII is fine. Although if they do have a WoW style inventory PLEASE place some limitations to it. I think a fusion from Diablo and WoW works in certain aspects of the game. But, as I think all people will feel the same, Diablo should remain its own series. Anyone who says that it should be allowed to be different from DII but being the same as another one of their successful games is hypocritical. So in simple terms, Use other games as inspiration but leave the game as its own entity. Which I personally think Blizzard will successfully do.
As long as the stories are different then it doesn't make much difference does it? I've never played WoW, but I'm pretty damn sure it's skills ripped off Diablo. There are actually more skills this time. I counted 56 for the wiz.
The new inventory forces you to make decisions too...
All I was saying is that a tile system with size encumbrance is more realistic.
A horribly narrow minded and unintelligent view.
A rather strong statement considering your entire post is based on a false assumption.
Given that there are more skills and assuming that there are more items with greater diversity, I will have to say that your point is completely invalid.
There aren't more skills and the assumption of more items with more diversity is based off a false assumption. GIVEN that the current idea is for automatic stats, the newly pigeonholed classes won't need as varied an assortment of items since all classes will eventually need the same ones.
There will be more diverse builds, and therefore different builds may find the occulus equivalent inferior to their particular build.
Please tell me how a system that restricts builds to skill specialization is more diverse than a system that uses both skill specialization and stat placement?
The variants; skill tree, skill empowerment, and gear will give greater customization than; skill tree, stats, and gear.
How exactly? In D2, what you call "skill empowerment" was released as skill synergies with the advent of the LoD expansion. So how does D3's 3 avenues of customization add up to more than D2's 4? That's screwy math if you ask me.
Since stats are really just a boring attribute, the customization is going from 2 fold in d2, to 3 fold in d3(not including sex).
Class customization is mechanics, most build discussion in ANY game capable of choosing customized classes does not include sex or even race since those are largely cosmetic in nature and offer no inherent bonus or penalty. Stats a boring attribute? Tell that to people who had a great time playing Singing Barbs and Energy Sorcs.
It's not the whiners that piss me off. It's the ignorant bastards like you that spew ill-thought judgements instead of looking at the changes with a truly critical eye, and understanding fully, their implications. Try to think a little harder next time bubby.
Might want to look into a mirror sometime. Although, if you're honest with yourself, you may not like what you see...
What you're counting are synergies.
[/COLOR][/color]
[COLOR=Yellow]All I was saying is that a tile system with size encumbrance is more realistic.[/COLOR]
[/color]
[COLOR=Yellow]A rather strong statement considering your entire post is based on a false assumption.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow]There aren't more skills and the assumption of more items with more diversity is based off a false assumption. GIVEN that the current idea is for automatic stats, the newly pigeonholed classes won't need as varied an assortment of items since all classes will eventually need the same ones.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow]Please tell me how a system that restricts builds to skill specialization is more diverse than a system that uses both skill specialization and stat placement?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow]How exactly? In D2, what you call "skill empowerment" was released as skill synergies with the advent of the LoD expansion. So how does D3's 3 avenues of customization add up to more than D2's 4? That's screwy math if you ask me.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Yellow]Class customization is mechanics, most build discussion in ANY game capable of choosing customized classes does not include sex or even race since those are largely cosmetic in nature and offer no inherent bonus or penalty. Stats a boring attribute? Tell that to people who had a great time playing Singing Barbs and Energy Sorcs.[/COLOR]
[/color] [color=Green]
[COLOR=Yellow]Might want to look into a mirror sometime. Although, if you're honest with yourself, you may not like what you see...[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Green]Ahh, I see, I was under a false assumption lol. Synergies in d2 were kinda, well restricting. it forced you to invest all your skills in the same synergy set. Out of that set there were only a few you would deem usable. In d3 the skills seem very flexible with a higher demand placed on tactical synergies.
The advent of item based stats, skill modifiers, and rune skill system will add the ability to use different skill trees in tactical unison more effectively. When a wider range of tactics can be used it opens up a wide range of builds that can be built. Thats really the gist of what I was trying to convey. [/COLOR]
Wait, so you're saying synergies "suck hard" but you're ok with how they're developing the D3 system? Are you a forum ostrich?
Indeed, look at the frikin wizard gameplay video. Using those multiple skills at once! Now lets see a D2 synergies and sorc that wants a powerfull Blizzard for example, You have at least 3 synergies for blizzard and you pretty much mostly use only blizzard. Why spend those 60 skills on other spells that you really don't even use much. Also having this build makes it pretty much impossible to kill cold immunes. If we had 20 point passive skill that would boost cold spells we would have much more options in D2 but meh old game is an old game. Doesn't matter anymore since we are getting so much better game.
I rather put up a synergy skill that isn't a spell itself but which buffs many other damage dealing spells. And since not all of those skills are 20 pointers, I will have a lot of points to spend to many different spells which makes the game more enjoyable.
D2 Synergies opened some builds but also made many builds impossible. Tri element build became really hard to make viable in large games at hell. Even dual element builds suffer from damage loss. Bowazon requires maybe the most expensive gear in game to make it work like pre 1.10. Barbarians suffered a lot in killing power.
Pre-LOD was the best system there was in D2 time, adding cast delays etc made it bad in LOD and synergies changed it even worse in 1.10. During 1.10 I haven't really have any character that I have enjoyed. Barbarian used to be the guaranteed thing that gave you pleasure, especially in Classic. Now that they made it so weak in 1.10 even that really makes me not want to play D2 anymore.
So the new system sounds so much better than what D2 has ever had. And looks too. They have this tought "having 6 skills you be using and some passives/buffs" sounds really good way to develop a skill system.
I haven't played D2 in a long time, I've moved on to other things quite a long time ago. I'm sure once D3 comes out in all its WoW pay to play glory, you'll be self-congratulating yourself on just how much of a sheep you are.
So instead of playing games you whine about them.. Pay to play? Didn't they say that it won't require payment for being able to play it online, but some features may become under payments?
Bähähähää
I, on the other hand, will continue to voice my concerns and criticisms in the hopes that D3 does not end up a suckfest, which is the direction its rapidly approaching, from what Jay is saying anyway. You go ahead and continue being the nice little bootlicker.
Well it doesn't end up a suckfest.. or does anyone who played the demo at blizzcon say that the direction is that? I haven't yet seen one bad comment about the demo.
Class specific items have not been discussed yet. As of now, all classes can use the majority of the gear, although each class at a different level because of the stat distribution. In the case of point 2, you argue that items that were useable to all classes did not work that well in D2. Yet here, you want more of them. Besides, a highly acclaimed quality of D2 is the search for certain items. Sets don't have to dissapear, they just have to be made worth collecting while still making other gear available that can trump sets in certain setups. Then you will actually be happy when you run across these things.
Actually class specific items have been discussed. Blizzard has elatedly stated the amazing new feature that, "In Diablo 3, ALL items will be class specific! Woohoo!" Yeahh! Awesome! Wait, WHAT????
As far as sets go, I like the concept, but I think my "artifact parts" Idea would do it better (search for it if you want)
I'd rather have 30 skills with multiple D2-esque synergies than 15 or fewer skills with WoW style synergies. The speed and pacing of Diablo just doesn't mesh well with WoW. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, "a rose by any other name is still a rose..." Customizing one spell 15 different ways doesn't make Frost Nova look or work different, it just enhances the effects. Going from more to less is less.
This is exactly true. Honestly, I do not believe that Diablo 3 is being made by the same people who brought us Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. Because it appears to me that the makers of Diablo 3 have absolutely no idea what made Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 fun games. Yes its the same company but I'm betting different people are working on it, mostly a lot of new people and WoW developers who feel pretty high and mighty for making WoW already, and think they are going to "fix" all the things that the D2 devs did wrong by making it more like WoW, their perfect little baby.
Actually class specific items have been discussed. Blizzard has elatedly stated the amazing new feature that, "In Diablo 3, ALL items will be class specific! Woohoo!" Yeahh! Awesome! Wait, WHAT????
I doubt that.
This is exactly true. Honestly, I do not believe that Diablo 3 is being made by the same people who brought us Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. Because it appears to me that the makers of Diablo 3 have absolutely no idea what made Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 fun games. Yes its the same company but I'm betting different people are working on it, mostly a lot of new people and WoW developers who feel pretty high and mighty for making WoW already, and think they are going to "fix" all the things that the D2 devs did wrong by making it more like WoW, their perfect little baby.
So you would rather limit builds with synergies rather than diversify builds with with the ability to mix multiple trees? I suppose what made diablo fun for you was casting the same spell a thousand times, pking noobs, spamming potions, and allocating stat points.
Indeed, look at the frikin wizard gameplay video. Using those multiple skills at once! Now lets see a D2 synergies and sorc that wants a powerfull Blizzard for example, You have at least 3 synergies for blizzard and you pretty much mostly use only blizzard.
Right, if that was your CHOICE. In the meantime, other Blizzard sorcs were using their other 3 or 4 maxed skills in situations that made Blizzard tactically unuseable. So just because your playstyle differs, don't assume everyone else is the same.
Why spend those 60 skills on other spells that you really don't even use much. Also having this build makes it pretty much impossible to kill cold immunes
Which encourages party play to bring along someone who can (such as a Fire/Lightning sorc or *gasp* another character type such as a Berzerk barb). This argument is dumb because D3 is going to be the same way, just look at the Wizard tree. Instead of spending, say 20 points on Frost Nova in D2 to max out the synergy and get two useful skills, in D3 you get 1 useful skill and have to max synergies that have no active effect.
. If we had 20 point passive skill that would boost cold spells we would have much more options in D2 but meh old game is an old game.
Oh, you mean like Cold Mastery? You did play D2 right?
Doesn't matter anymore since we are getting so much better game.
Right, what you're actually getting is a trumped and hyped up Gauntlet 3, not Diablo 3.
I rather put up a synergy skill that isn't a spell itself but which buffs many other damage dealing spells. And since not all of those skills are 20 pointers, I will have a lot of points to spend to many different spells which makes the game more enjoyable.
As in WoW, this doesn't mean you'll be able to use all skills at maximum effectiveness, is means you'll be pigeonholed into using even fewer skills than in D2. Again, look at the current Wizard tree, its something like 5 or 6 active skills per tree and then a bunch of 15 point synergies. So instead of using multiple skills that are effective even at low levels as in D2, such as the utility Lightning spells or the Barbs passives, you'll have to decide on one or two skills to use the entire game and max out the synergy. Yay for boring.
D2 Synergies opened some builds but also made many builds impossible. Tri element build became really hard to make viable in large games at hell. Even dual element builds suffer from damage loss. Bowazon requires maybe the most expensive gear in game to make it work like pre 1.10. Barbarians suffered a lot in killing power.
Balance changes is all. A build that can mow down everything without help is not exactly conducive to party play is it, which is why they made tri-element builds tough to manage. But I had no problems being effective as a Fire/Lightning or Cold/Lightning sorc.
And my Bowazon worked perfectly fine with average gear, I didn't need Windforce or any of the uber Runewords, it just meant killing slower in an effort to enact playbalance. And my Frenzy/Zerk Barb tore through crap like it was nobody's business. Perhaps you just sucked at the game?
Pre-LOD was the best system there was in D2 time, adding cast delays etc made it bad in LOD and synergies changed it even worse in 1.10. During 1.10 I haven't really have any character that I have enjoyed. Barbarian used to be the guaranteed thing that gave you pleasure, especially in Classic. Now that they made it so weak in 1.10 even that really makes me not want to play D2 anymore.
Balance. And you're complaining that your one character that was unstoppable was FORCED to rely on cooperation and others for support. Sounds odd that you guys are touting cooperation and party play, yet deride it in the game that preceds this one.
So the new system sounds so much better than what D2 has ever had. And looks too. They have this tought "having 6 skills you be using and some passives/buffs" sounds really good way to develop a skill system.
Right, because the fact that you used one skill and were angry when that didn't work anymore meant everyone was the same. Not everyone is a moron, all of my D2 characters were versatile and able to solo almost anywhere, but of course the questing part was more fun when you played with others who weren't spam bots or leechers.
So instead of playing games you whine about them.. Pay to play? Didn't they say that it won't require payment for being able to play it online, but some features may become under payments?
Bähähähää
No, I criticize games while still in the development stage so that the developers can get input back on the features in question. It only sounds like whining to those who are content to let games be spoonfed to them.
And as one recent interview mentioned that the P2P features are more in line with things like server transfers, the development cycle still has a long way to go. Unless the devs know what we want NOW, once the game is released it will be too late to change the base coding.
Thinking is your friend.
So if I like a game.. i'm a bootlicker?
If you like a game that is still months and years away from release, based on alpha testing and hype, then yes.
@ Murderface.. I think you misinterpreted mahamotis second Quote.. He is simply agreeing with the fact that the games are differently paced.
WoW = you use 4-7 different skills to bring down 1-2 monsters at once.
DII = you use 1-2 skills to bring down 4-9 monsters at once.
DIII = you SHOULD be able to use 4-7 different skills to bring down 4-9 monsters at once.
And therein lies the difference between what has been and what blizz is aiming at with DIII.
The fact that you might not be able to choose your own stats just gives more power to the items, but weakens customization a whole lot since cookie cutter builds will be all over bnet.
Lets say we have 2 chars, they are both the same level and they are both geared with the exact same gear. IF stat allocation is allowed the placing of the stats will determine who is the superior, whilst if it is not then you'll just have to identical cookiecutter builds. Bye bye customization, bye bye personal character hello mr. carebear.
That is assuming that the items are exactly the same (stat-wise) and that rares are still shitty and unuseable. Also with the new skill system you will be less likely to find the 2 of the same build with the exact same items. I don't really see how removing stat allocation matters, if you allowed people to allocate stats, they would just pour it all in vit with min str and dex (with few exceptions). Stats really don't customize at all. Stat based items would do the job way better. Say you want to make a build that uses a lot of mana. You would have to find an item that gives you more mana or energy, and assuming that duping is impossible in d3 you might have to use an alternative to the best +mana item, since its rarity would jack up the price and only a few leet and lucky players would obtain it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Discussion is encouraged, blatant arguing is not.
Thanks,
Daemaro
Stats either offered you more damage, block, hit rating, health or mana. The only customization you actually NEEDED from a Player vs monster aspect was to allow you to measure up to the standards required to kill something in Hell. You could do it by tanking a few more hits, making a few more hits, blocking a few more spells/hits, or spamming a bit more.
By auto assigning points...what are you losing? You're just being automatically prepared to handle hell mode without having to screw it up. You instead have to focus on what combination of spells and what tactics to use with your new runed skills and talented abilities.
Give and Take...it's happening...Open eyes please.
Just wanted to respond to a couple of points here. We all agree that D3 is NOT WoW, however, in going to auto-stats, item modifiers and the wording/type of skill trees, its very apparent that WoW devs (who are on the D3 team) are allowing a lot of cross-pollination. Whether this is good or not remains to be seen, but personally, I'd like the games to remain distinct from each other, and not blend into each other so much that they each become advertising vehicles for the other.
I'd rather have 30 skills with multiple D2-esque synergies than 15 or fewer skills with WoW style synergies. The speed and pacing of Diablo just doesn't mesh well with WoW. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase, "a rose by any other name is still a rose..." Customizing one spell 15 different ways doesn't make Frost Nova look or work different, it just enhances the effects. Going from more to less is less.
This was a problem of design with the charm system, it could have easily been a different inventory, such as a keyring style window. The block inventory is more realistic because it forces you to make choices about what you can carry, I'd love to see the same system with the number of blocks modified by your strength score. WoW's inventory allowing you to carry tens of armor pieces and weapons is just unbelievable at best.
First, all members of a particular class will find items equally useful. Since every Wizard for example cannot be made into a meleesorc ala D2, every Wizard will farm the Occulus equivalent in D3. So instead of seeing Stormshield using Wizards, ALL Stormshields will go to Barbs since they're the ONLY ones who can use it. You're really just spreading the problem, not fixing it. Selfmade gear's performance wasn't a fault of the attribute system, it was Blizz devs releasing overpowered runewords that destroyed playbalance and then not doing anything about it. I mean, seriously, Teleport on a runeword armor? The one thing you don't do in a game is to give unique class features to any character via items. Unless there are some penalties or other disadvantage to counteract this.
A good example, again in WoW is the ability for Engineers to make explosives to blow up locks, giving basically any class the ability to Pick Locks, a Rogue only ability. However, the disadvantage is the loss of one of your primary professions on one that is a money sink and primarily geared towards PvP, and inferior as a money maker compared to professions such as Alchemy or even the basic gathering professions.
This is one thing Blizzard SHOULD take a hint from WoW on. Instanced play in D3 replaces WoW persistent servers, so a VERY simple fix is to allow the player to determine whether PvP is allowed and to what extent on game creation. Simple tickboxes would suffice, such as:
PvP Free For All - Everyone is vulnerable at any time,
Consentual PvP - Same as a duel, both players must agree
No PvP - cannot take place anywhere in the game.
You could still have town "safe zones" which would be especially useful for FFA servers and Ironman matches. Fixes every problem with PvP, gives the control to the player, and everyone is happy.
Finally, to those that say the whiners should leave, die in a fire, or other similarly horrible fates, this is discussion about a game. Get some perspective, and respect a poster's right to express his or her opinion.
As I said before.. keep playing your precious D2, the time you use to whine about D3 you can use to level up another char in D2.
I'm so happy D3 is so different than D2.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Wait, so you're saying synergies "suck hard" but you're ok with how they're developing the D3 system? Are you a forum ostrich?
I haven't played D2 in a long time, I've moved on to other things quite a long time ago. I'm sure once D3 comes out in all its WoW pay to play glory, you'll be self-congratulating yourself on just how much of a sheep you are.
I, on the other hand, will continue to voice my concerns and criticisms in the hopes that D3 does not end up a suckfest, which is the direction its rapidly approaching, from what Jay is saying anyway. You go ahead and continue being the nice little bootlicker.
sure they may pay attention when A LOT of ppl start bitching and complain about some aspect of the game but when a small group complain about how theydont like that it will be p2p or they rather have something ike d2 ( is d2 anything like d1? not really) they really dont care..
end rant
When half the threads across various forums all refer to the same issues, then its more than just what a few people believe.
And most game developers use forums now as representative research, that is, they extrapolate the potential reaction by the percentages reported.
So instead of badmouthing people that care to write down their carefully constructed criticisms of the game in an attempt to be helpful and accusing them of "whining" or "QQing" how about you just let them have their say, since its rare for them to tell people like you to leave?
You know, treat others as you would like to be treated?
Haha you're my new favorite poster. rofl.
Btw "Nethous"...why does being a longtime fan have to be qualified with (bullshit) in your post. You hopped on the WoW bandwagon and don't like us real fans of blizzard? Well, former fans.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
and yes i have been playing d2 for the last probably 5 or so years if not more
I would love it if blizzard could make everyone happy but they cant so as i stated above they are going for the majority.
There are actually more skills this time. I counted 56 for the wiz.
The new inventory forces you to make decisions too...
A horribly narrow minded and unintelligent view. Given that there are more skills and assuming that there are more items with greater diversity, I will have to say that your point is completely invalid. There will be more diverse builds, and therefore different builds may find the occulus equivalent inferior to their particular build. The variants; skill tree, skill empowerment, and gear will give greater customization than; skill tree, stats, and gear. Since stats are really just a boring attribute, the customization is going from 2 fold in d2, to 3 fold in d3(not including sex).
It's not the whiners that piss me off. It's the ignorant bastards like you that spew ill-thought judgements instead of looking at the changes with a truly critical eye, and understanding fully, their implications. Try to think a little harder next time bubby.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Thank you that is basically what im trying to say
You might want to recount. Here:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15288
What you're counting are synergies.
All I was saying is that a tile system with size encumbrance is more realistic.
A rather strong statement considering your entire post is based on a false assumption.
There aren't more skills and the assumption of more items with more diversity is based off a false assumption. GIVEN that the current idea is for automatic stats, the newly pigeonholed classes won't need as varied an assortment of items since all classes will eventually need the same ones.
Please tell me how a system that restricts builds to skill specialization is more diverse than a system that uses both skill specialization and stat placement?
How exactly? In D2, what you call "skill empowerment" was released as skill synergies with the advent of the LoD expansion. So how does D3's 3 avenues of customization add up to more than D2's 4? That's screwy math if you ask me.
Class customization is mechanics, most build discussion in ANY game capable of choosing customized classes does not include sex or even race since those are largely cosmetic in nature and offer no inherent bonus or penalty. Stats a boring attribute? Tell that to people who had a great time playing Singing Barbs and Energy Sorcs.
Might want to look into a mirror sometime. Although, if you're honest with yourself, you may not like what you see...
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
The advent of item based stats, skill modifiers, and rune skill system will add the ability to use different skill trees in tactical unison more effectively. When a wider range of tactics can be used it opens up a wide range of builds that can be built. Thats really the gist of what I was trying to convey. [/COLOR]
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
I rather put up a synergy skill that isn't a spell itself but which buffs many other damage dealing spells. And since not all of those skills are 20 pointers, I will have a lot of points to spend to many different spells which makes the game more enjoyable.
D2 Synergies opened some builds but also made many builds impossible. Tri element build became really hard to make viable in large games at hell. Even dual element builds suffer from damage loss. Bowazon requires maybe the most expensive gear in game to make it work like pre 1.10. Barbarians suffered a lot in killing power.
Pre-LOD was the best system there was in D2 time, adding cast delays etc made it bad in LOD and synergies changed it even worse in 1.10. During 1.10 I haven't really have any character that I have enjoyed. Barbarian used to be the guaranteed thing that gave you pleasure, especially in Classic. Now that they made it so weak in 1.10 even that really makes me not want to play D2 anymore.
So the new system sounds so much better than what D2 has ever had. And looks too. They have this tought "having 6 skills you be using and some passives/buffs" sounds really good way to develop a skill system.
So instead of playing games you whine about them.. Pay to play? Didn't they say that it won't require payment for being able to play it online, but some features may become under payments?
Bähähähää
Well it doesn't end up a suckfest.. or does anyone who played the demo at blizzcon say that the direction is that? I haven't yet seen one bad comment about the demo.
So if I like a game.. i'm a bootlicker?
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Actually class specific items have been discussed. Blizzard has elatedly stated the amazing new feature that, "In Diablo 3, ALL items will be class specific! Woohoo!" Yeahh! Awesome! Wait, WHAT????
As far as sets go, I like the concept, but I think my "artifact parts" Idea would do it better (search for it if you want)
This is exactly true. Honestly, I do not believe that Diablo 3 is being made by the same people who brought us Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. Because it appears to me that the makers of Diablo 3 have absolutely no idea what made Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 fun games. Yes its the same company but I'm betting different people are working on it, mostly a lot of new people and WoW developers who feel pretty high and mighty for making WoW already, and think they are going to "fix" all the things that the D2 devs did wrong by making it more like WoW, their perfect little baby.
So you would rather limit builds with synergies rather than diversify builds with with the ability to mix multiple trees? I suppose what made diablo fun for you was casting the same spell a thousand times, pking noobs, spamming potions, and allocating stat points.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Right, if that was your CHOICE. In the meantime, other Blizzard sorcs were using their other 3 or 4 maxed skills in situations that made Blizzard tactically unuseable. So just because your playstyle differs, don't assume everyone else is the same.
Which encourages party play to bring along someone who can (such as a Fire/Lightning sorc or *gasp* another character type such as a Berzerk barb). This argument is dumb because D3 is going to be the same way, just look at the Wizard tree. Instead of spending, say 20 points on Frost Nova in D2 to max out the synergy and get two useful skills, in D3 you get 1 useful skill and have to max synergies that have no active effect.
Oh, you mean like Cold Mastery? You did play D2 right?
Right, what you're actually getting is a trumped and hyped up Gauntlet 3, not Diablo 3.
As in WoW, this doesn't mean you'll be able to use all skills at maximum effectiveness, is means you'll be pigeonholed into using even fewer skills than in D2. Again, look at the current Wizard tree, its something like 5 or 6 active skills per tree and then a bunch of 15 point synergies. So instead of using multiple skills that are effective even at low levels as in D2, such as the utility Lightning spells or the Barbs passives, you'll have to decide on one or two skills to use the entire game and max out the synergy. Yay for boring.
Balance changes is all. A build that can mow down everything without help is not exactly conducive to party play is it, which is why they made tri-element builds tough to manage. But I had no problems being effective as a Fire/Lightning or Cold/Lightning sorc.
And my Bowazon worked perfectly fine with average gear, I didn't need Windforce or any of the uber Runewords, it just meant killing slower in an effort to enact playbalance. And my Frenzy/Zerk Barb tore through crap like it was nobody's business. Perhaps you just sucked at the game?
Balance. And you're complaining that your one character that was unstoppable was FORCED to rely on cooperation and others for support. Sounds odd that you guys are touting cooperation and party play, yet deride it in the game that preceds this one.
Right, because the fact that you used one skill and were angry when that didn't work anymore meant everyone was the same. Not everyone is a moron, all of my D2 characters were versatile and able to solo almost anywhere, but of course the questing part was more fun when you played with others who weren't spam bots or leechers.
No, I criticize games while still in the development stage so that the developers can get input back on the features in question. It only sounds like whining to those who are content to let games be spoonfed to them.
And as one recent interview mentioned that the P2P features are more in line with things like server transfers, the development cycle still has a long way to go. Unless the devs know what we want NOW, once the game is released it will be too late to change the base coding.
Thinking is your friend.
If you like a game that is still months and years away from release, based on alpha testing and hype, then yes.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.