You two (and the playerbase at large) have no idea how to play WoW properly, which is the reason I could excel despite serious time constraints in that game in the first place.
I've played the game from launch upto Brutallus in Sunwell before recently quitting myself.
Honestly...just starting SSC? And you have the nerve to tell me I've not played the game properly?
First off in that thread you linked- you're comparing an MMORPG to a small-scale RPG...GG noob.
I understand the way WoW works and am not willing to pay for it further myself -due to financial constraints and the time constraints that end-game demands. You did make some valid poitns about wow and yes alot of stuff is still unfair and shit and there is always a 'slump' that people experience at some point in the game and ofc in the end-game- but the game itself is under constant evolution and is getting better with each expansion as a result- effectively producing a much better game. Just look at the improvements made in WotLK.
I do however hold that it is still one of the best games till date because of what it offers and still hold that it takes way more skill and cooperative coordination to achieve end-game goals in dungeons like SSC and onward than any Diablo 2 encounter. PvP itself also requires alot of skill- look at the arena ffs -it's developed into a pro-gaming E-sport. Diablo doesn't even have such dimensions in its pvp that you can go and draw up a comparison for.
Finally, If you're willing to call diablo fans idiots and assume that to be a diablo fan that you must hate wow, and also use WoW as a reference of something that Diablo III should not learn from... and after hearing sensible arguments from the other people here... then you really are beyond all hope of reasoning.
Good Luck. Not going to bother trolling this pointless discussion further.
What big picture? All I see is taking things from WoW and using them in Diablo3 under premise of improvement. Improve what, MMORPG D3 experience?
Step by step in that direction and only thing that will remind of Diablo will be title on the box. Titan Quest has similar gameplay as seen in gameplay videos, but thats not Diablo.
And as for not buying game, I won't buy it. I will pirate it, and most likely even enjoy playing it, for a while. Doubt blizzard will care, they have gazzilion of wow subscribers for whom Diablo 3 is clearly developed in my eyes.
Apparently the game isn't so terrible if it's worth pirating.
Diablo 3 is stupid; it uses a mouse like soooooo many other games out there.
So by respect the franchise, you mean remake the previous game and taking good, effective ideas from other games is prohibited? Got it.
That's pretty much what it seems like people want.
They want Diablo 2 with graphics that require a $3000 PC to run and no other changes... Other than taking all of the color out of the game and making it completely black and white so that it looks "creepy".
If you don't like the game, simply leave and make our lives better.
NO! We will not be satisfied until someone else bows to us and inflates our ego to ridiculous proportions! I WILL NOT REST UNTIL SOMEONE'S FEELINGS HAVE BEEN HURT!
What big picture? All I see is taking things from WoW and using them in Diablo3 under premise of improvement. Improve what, MMORPG D3 experience?
Step by step in that direction and only thing that will remind of Diablo will be title on the box. Titan Quest has similar gameplay as seen in gameplay videos, but thats not Diablo.
And as for not buying game, I won't buy it. I will pirate it, and most likely even enjoy playing it, for a while. Doubt blizzard will care, they have gazzilion of wow subscribers for whom Diablo 3 is clearly developed in my eyes.
"First they come..." poem comes to mind.
You've asked what bigger picture- and you've given yourself an answer- and then gone back to your stupid prejudice all over again. Thought process = fail.
Improvement is the key to all sequels. Blizzard using wow for that is not bastardizing the diablo series.
Just because you hate wow- doesn't make it a bad reference point for game developers.
If you want to be a critic - at least be a proper game critic and look at things as a game developer, businessman, designer, industry person would- instead of a mindless critic that judges blindly, holds prejudices while skipping right by the answers to his own questions...
NO! We will not be satisfied until someone else bows to us and inflates our ego to ridiculous proportions! I WILL NOT REST UNTIL SOMEONE'S FEELINGS HAVE BEEN HURT!
Yeah... this is pretty stupid...
amen.
the majority of us will be perfectly satisfied with the game when it is finally released.
i guess this is the true measure of our fanaticism.
You seem like you have played Diablo 3 and like it very much. I haven't, but I can discuss and give opinions on what developers are making. They aren't always right unless you are True Fan.
I like previous Diablo games. I don't want a clone of Diablo 2. I want new and improved Diablo game. But most of these so called improvement are not for a Diablo. They are improvement for a MMORPG game, which Diablo 3 clearly (well, for now) isn't.
For example really necessary inventory change. It's funny to see how True Fans of diablo are trying to make arguments about why it was so necessary. There was a great thread about it right here on forums.
So just to be clear here...you think that the improvements made are not for Diablo? Then what are they for? They are improvements for an RPG game- in case you didn't notice MMORPG has the words ROLE PLAYING GAME in it- just on a larger scale.
Taking ideas from it to filter into an RPG (small-scale) is not a sin. What is the big hooplah about really? Warcraft was an RTS that got blown up into an MMORPG- that got its advice from Diablo 2. Improvements flow in all directions regarding game genres- its been a staple in game development across many titles- not just Blizzard games.
In the end...How are these improvements NOT diablo related? Hell how are they not Starcraft Related or Warcraft related?
Explain that...That I would love to see in coherent logical english.
First of all, by calling myself a lifelong fan, I do not mean that it is important for Blizzard to want to please me. Rather, I meant that I am someone who has been highly devoted to Diablo for a very very long time, someone with a lot of interest, someone who they could normally count on buying the game no matter what...but EVEN I am so unimpressed with their proposed gameplay mechanics that I have lost interest. And if hardcore fans are losing interest, that means a lot of regular fans are losing interest, too.
Quote from "Jackzor" »
So by respect the franchise, you mean remake the previous game and taking good, effective ideas from other games is prohibited? Got it.
If you had read any of my posts, which are almost all suggestions for things to change to make D3 better than D2, you would know that is not what I meant. For that matter, you could have read some of my suggestions for D2 and how to make it better than D1. For example, the stamina bar was one of my suggestions back in the day. I don't know if they actually got the idea from reading one of my posts, but I did suggest it.
To be honest, I am sad that they are not adding more cool features from D3.
So far, the MAJORITY of new features are actually just REMOVED features. Lets consider the list of "NEW" features:
1) No more mana potions.
2) No more spellbooks
3) No more scary music in the background (only ear splitting ambient noise)
4) No more freedom to customize char by assigning attribute points
5) Less freedom to customize build by forcing more points into low-level skills, so you cant save them up ( skill saving was one of the best things in D2. It allowed you to increase your own difficulty level by not using skill points, for the reward of having a better end-game build. This was excellent.)
6) Less freedom to customize build by having far less basic attack skills (I dont care that you can slightly modify skills with a rune, thats not the same as a completely different way to attack)
6) No more dark scary looking dungeons
7) No more tetris- style inventory
8) Smaller hordes of monsters (they said this)
I could go on.
Now, let's consider some of the MAJOR things that D2 needed to be improved on:
1) In-game features to facillitate trading by allowing you to search for players currently online who wanted to buy/sell items by keyword. Because it was friggin horrible sitting in the trade channel for hours watching 1000 words fly by per second.
2) Not enough "uber" item choices for each slot..there was too much competition over individual items that were best for any build.
3) Less class-specific and set items, terrible idea to constantly give you drops for things that you either cannot use or cant collect all the set parts until you are too high level for it
4) Better PvP accomodations to keep the PKers out of your game by keeping them occupied elsewhere, and allowing people to fight in arenas and stuff...and fight over items that they ante, thus allowing players to focus more on PvP builds instead of everyone focusing on PvM
5) Better security on preventing cheats and hacks.
The only one of these major issues that they seem to be addressing is #5.
I've played the game from launch upto Brutallus in Sunwell before recently quitting myself.
Honestly...just starting SSC? And you have the nerve to tell me I've not played the game properly?
Yeah, this was back when SSC was the avant guarde. Not now, when idiots of all kinds farm it. Did you think I was bragging about having started SSC two weeks ago? Lol!
Quote from "MajorMoose" »
You did make some valid points about WoW
Why thank you. I'm getting tired of this senseless bickering myself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
1) No more mana potions.
2) No more spellbooks
3) No more scary music in the background (only ear splitting ambient noise)
4) No more freedom to customize char by assigning attribute points
5) Less freedom to customize build by forcing more points into low-level skills, so you cant save them up ( skill saving was one of the best things in D2. It allowed you to increase your own difficulty level by not using skill points, for the reward of having a better end-game build. This was excellent.)
6) Less freedom to customize build by having far less basic attack skills (I dont care that you can slightly modify skills with a rune, thats not the same as a completely different way to attack)
6) No more dark scary looking dungeons
7) No more tetris- style inventory
8) Smaller hordes of monsters (they said this)
I'm also a hardcore fan, and I remain one still and welcome the changes. If the game comes out and I'm proved wrong, then so be it, but I'm willing to allow chance and room for change.
1) I can live without.
2) They've been gone since D1 as far as I know.
3) Seemed plenty scary to me.
4) Will allow for more variety in the long run in my opinion.
5) I havent seen any proof of this, last I heard they said the 1/1 into attack skills is subject to change and was made that way just for the demo.
6) Maybe less attack skills but I personally like the new ones better and they seem like ones you will continue to use instead of disregard at higher levels.
6) (again?) They looked plenty dark and scary enough to me, even more so than D1 or D2 ones for the most part.
7) Goodbye to tetris style, I'm thankful.
8) They said before the demo that they'd probably have smaller hordes, but in the demo it looked about the same as most instances in D2.
Yeah, this was back when SSC was the avant guarde. Not now, when idiots of all kinds farm it. Did you think I was bragging about having started SSC two weeks ago? Lol!
Why thank you. I'm getting tired of this senseless bickering myself.
Bragging or not- that's not the point. Whether SSC was the avant guarde or not- TBC was still in its baby phase. If you're not willing to take into account the stages of development and progression that the game underwent after that phase- then you're just being short sighted about WoW as a whole- and just bitter about your shitty experience.
You make some sensible points about WoW in reference to WoW- but absolutely no sense in comparing it to Diablo.
In fact, Diablo 1 and 2 are the only computer games I have ever considered myself a fan of. Other games I never played more than a week...whereas I played Diablo 1 and 2 for many years each.
Today is Blizzcon and I should be more pumped than ever about Diablo 3. However, the more information about the game I learn, I must confess that I only grow more disappointed. This doesn't sound like a game that respects what we have come to love about the Diablo franchise, and I think I'm going to stop spending my time on the forums giving feedback and suggestions.
My reasons for having lost interest are the following:
1) Poor graphics. As a digital artist who specializes in both 2D digital painting and 3D modeling, I have a keen eye for graphics. I do not appreciate the low contrast outdoor scenes, the low poly geometry, the excessive use of bright colors, the cartoony look, nor the lack of normal bump maps. I do not feel that the dungeons look dark or gloomy at all. It all looks incredibly cheesy and I can't believe they are using such out-dated low poly models. Come on. This is Blizzard, can't you hire some artists that are AT LEAST industry-PAR? This looks like the graphics from 5 years ago. It looks like WoW graphics.
2) The inventory system has been demolished. One of the main reasons I loved Diablo was that it used the novel puzzle-style inventory. I thought this was obsolutely genious. It allowed the player to reorganize their backpack in a way that felt like I was actually reorganizing a backpack. That was fun. It also made big items feel bigger and more important than small items. It looks like a WoW inventory.
3) I do not like the automatic distribution of attribute points. This is incredibly lame.
4) I do not like the new skill point assignment system. It forces players to put many skill points into low-level skills before unlocking high level skills. It also has very few options about specific damage dealing moves, which are gained at low levels and simply buffed up throughout. I don't want to be using the same skill at level 90 that someone uses at level 1, and I don't want my only specialization options to be which buffs I choose to put on my lightning bolt, or whatever. I hear this is like WoW.
5) I do not like the allowance for respeccing. It like to plan out a character and have to make good decisions that I will be penalized for later on. If I make a mistake, then that's just replayability. NO amount of respeccing comes without detriment to the games replayability. I think this is like WoW too.
These are my major complaints, and I hope that someone reads them and takes note. I am sure I am not the only hardcore lifelong blizzard fan who feels betrayed by Blizzard now. They clearly consider themselves the cat's meow, but I just hope they aren't so cocky that they have to wait until they see they are not getting the kind of sales they expected to realize that all their butchery to what made Diablo great comes at a cost.
RESPECT THE FRANCHISE.
I'm sorry for not read all those replies. I read only the first and the second pages...
But here go my opnion:
1) The graphics are not great, but it isn't poor. It's a avarage graphics like most of blizz games.
2) Some ppl really stop in time. I'm sorry (and alot of ppl will flame me for that) but someone that still plays D2 hardcorish nowdays must have a terrible taste for games. Theres tons of best games outthere nowdays and Blizz Developers know that. Thats why D3 are very different from D2. Blizz are not trying to please the old fan base, they are trying to conquest a new fan base. Accept that. A small% of old fans may hate the new inventory, but a HUGE% of new fans hate the old inventory.
3) I agree with you. It's lame how ocidental RPG's are obsessive with balance (that will never ever exist) and makes the game more simple (easing the balance process).
But what was truly lame was D2 stats. A 99% of D2 Stats Build were stupid and pointless. D2 status system is cleary broken. As it seens that they no capacity of creating a decent status system, they just abondoned the idea and created a poor and fixed thing.
For me it's a shame. But theres is new features (like the new runes), so lets relax.
4) Hmm really disagree with you now.
What i don't like is get a skill and with 30 minutes of play get a better that will make the firts one useless. Then you use 1 or 2 skills of your build and the gameplay become just a mindless spam of the same strongest spell.
Of course, I would not appreciate wow's system here in diablo. Have around 40 spells to use would make the game very confusing and slow (like wow).
But they said that they are focusing on make the player have(and USE) around 6 skills, each is the perfect number imo. And i see no problem in use a low level skill in high end - actually, it's synonymous of quality.
5) Respec only brings replayability u.u' You may think that everyone would restart a 90+ character because they made build mistake, but you're wrong. Most of ppl would stop playing in this situation. Put a respec in the game can make the fans that are getting bored with the high level char (but don't wanna start one from the begning) keep playing.
I'm sorry, and i undestand that you're getting disapointed.
Thats because the game will be launched in 2009. Outdated mechanics that the old hardcore fans like will be surelly eliminated. They are trying to make something actual.
Hahaha some ppl must be thinking ''wth that guy that says most of D2's features are broken and stupid are doing in a diablo fan forum?''.
I'm here because 5 years ago i played D2 like hell and sometimes i play a little just for nostalgy (and i've been waiting D3 for a loooong time).
But i must admite: If D2 would be released nowdays it would be a terrible game.
And believe me: they (guys from blizz) know that.
First of all, by calling myself a lifelong fan, I do not mean that it is important for Blizzard to want to please me. Rather, I meant that I am someone who has been highly devoted to Diablo for a very very long time, someone with a lot of interest, someone who they could normally count on buying the game no matter what...but EVEN I am so unimpressed with their proposed gameplay mechanics that I have lost interest. And if hardcore fans are losing interest, that means a lot of regular fans are losing interest, too.
If you had read any of my posts, which are almost all suggestions for things to change to make D3 better than D2, you would know that is not what I meant. For that matter, you could have read some of my suggestions for D2 and how to make it better than D1. For example, the stamina bar was one of my suggestions back in the day. I don't know if they actually got the idea from reading one of my posts, but I did suggest it.
To be honest, I am sad that they are not adding more cool features from D3.
So far, the MAJORITY of new features are actually just REMOVED features. Lets consider the list of "NEW" features:
1) No more mana potions.
2) No more spellbooks
3) No more scary music in the background (only ear splitting ambient noise)
4) No more freedom to customize char by assigning attribute points
5) Less freedom to customize build by forcing more points into low-level skills, so you cant save them up ( skill saving was one of the best things in D2. It allowed you to increase your own difficulty level by not using skill points, for the reward of having a better end-game build. This was excellent.)
6) Less freedom to customize build by having far less basic attack skills (I dont care that you can slightly modify skills with a rune, thats not the same as a completely different way to attack)
6) No more dark scary looking dungeons
7) No more tetris- style inventory
8) Smaller hordes of monsters (they said this)
I could go on.
Now, let's consider some of the MAJOR things that D2 needed to be improved on:
1) In-game features to facillitate trading by allowing you to search for players currently online who wanted to buy/sell items by keyword. Because it was friggin horrible sitting in the trade channel for hours watching 1000 words fly by per second.
2) Not enough "uber" item choices for each slot..there was too much competition over individual items that were best for any build.
3) Less class-specific and set items, terrible idea to constantly give you drops for things that you either cannot use or cant collect all the set parts until you are too high level for it
4) Better PvP accomodations to keep the PKers out of your game by keeping them occupied elsewhere, and allowing people to fight in arenas and stuff...and fight over items that they ante, thus allowing players to focus more on PvP builds instead of everyone focusing on PvM
5) Better security on preventing cheats and hacks.
The only one of these major issues that they seem to be addressing is #5.
Think of it as a game developer...trying to bring a game out of tediousness and obsolescence and into streamlined gameplay with focus on fun...
1) Potions issue- it was tedious to keep stacking your belt with potions - both health and mana. Countless TPing to town to get more potions. Exciting? I think not...
2) Spellbooks- again addressed in the BlizzCon Panels- just made everything too bleak and random in a bad way. They liked it - but they've refined its flavour into Skill Runes- which honestly is one of the coolest new ideas they've put out thus far.
3) Comment on this when the game is out...there's absolutely no solid and progressive evidence to be critical on this point thus far- the game is still in friggin pre-alpha development...
4) Made this point a hundred times by now- stops the bastardization of the general path of each class. Keeps wizards wizards and barbarians barbarians- and not confuses their essential roles. Not the end of the world this little change...
5) You're still thinking in terms of Diablo II where you had better and effectively the only worthy skills in later tiers. The new system encourages you to use what you have throughout the game- instead of just offering you trash abilities to use at one part of the game - that you later discard as the game goes on. This way the devs develop skills that are as relevant late game -as they are early game. ALSO - respeccing means that you don't have to save shit...just spend early on and if you want to reinvest as you see fit- then go ahead.
6) Not sure what you're getting at here.
6 again?) You've only seen an inkling of the game...No dark scary dungeons? Think about it from the perspective of only having seen the Dry Hills as a preview of Diablo 2...you'd be crying about colour and no darkness...that's effectively what's going on. The team has commented that things will get darker and just to prove it they showed off how ominous Tristram itself is- imagine further levels.
7) Tetris Fetish- highly inefficient- too much clicking- takes away from actually playing the game and makes you waste time in storage when you should be spending time playing the damn game. It was a nightmare to manage shit when you have too many things to pick up and led to the whole 'mule' char concept.
8) Smaller hordes? There were insane bunches of monsters in the gameplay videos...especially in the first one right at the start- that was a literal swarm of monsters. They even said that they want you to be killing loads of monsters- and again we've only seen a snippet of monsters to come...
the majority of us will be perfectly satisfied with the game when it is finally released.
i guess this is the true measure of our fanaticism.
And of course, this is the absolutely best way of getting a best possible Diablo 3?
This is what I don't get. Critizism from consumers/costumers should be considered healthy not _whining_. What a stupid Idea is it not to shut up and get what is served? Better to tell the cook how you like your beef cooked in advance than afterwards!!
Sure some postings are a bit foolish and whiny, but alot of them are very good and informative!
apparently u can't post your opinion on these forums without being called a troll. I feel the same way i think there changing to much at once and i dunno if i will like it. But my post got deleted because they said i was trolling when it was clearly a legit thread explaining what i didnt like and why i thought they were changing things to much. but w.e
I can't believe that Blizzard is so inclined to support all the people who whine. They're making everything automatic because someone "hates it when they make a mistake distributing attributes and have to recreate". The reason you made a mistake is because you're retarded. So you made a mistake, you don't have to recreate, it just means you're not perfect.
Blizzard! Please stop trying to build a Utopia. Let people remain individuals and choose how they wanna play. Let people make mistakes, that way if they play the game longer, they become better and more knowledgeable. instead you're letting every noob be pro because you've already handled everything through automation. Laaaaaaaame.
And of course, this is the absolutely best way of getting a best possible Diablo 3?
This is what I don't get. Critizism from consumers/costumers should be considered healthy not _whining_. What a stupid Idea is it not to shut up and get what is served? Better to tell the cook how you like your beef cooked in advance than afterwards!!
Sure some postings are a bit foolish and whiny, but alot of them are very good and informative!
Not to dash what you're saying snoemann. You are right...but I think what's bothering is how there is less and less constructive criticism and more and more bitching in forums these days. There is little or no perspective on game mechanics evolution and development. More focus is given to the attitude "I want my old toys back".
I mean cmon- half the time we have people crying about the game not being dark enough because there's a shade of blue or green in the dungeon instead of it being black...and then there's the - OH ITS LIKE WoW lot. How many people actually give a shit about contrast, 3D setting and how the colours make things stand out, or how removed mechanics make the gameplay less tedious?
The perspective is the annoying thing- because its so blatantly blind fingerpointing instead of well presented criticism or solutions.
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I've played the game from launch upto Brutallus in Sunwell before recently quitting myself.
Honestly...just starting SSC? And you have the nerve to tell me I've not played the game properly?
First off in that thread you linked- you're comparing an MMORPG to a small-scale RPG...GG noob.
I understand the way WoW works and am not willing to pay for it further myself -due to financial constraints and the time constraints that end-game demands. You did make some valid poitns about wow and yes alot of stuff is still unfair and shit and there is always a 'slump' that people experience at some point in the game and ofc in the end-game- but the game itself is under constant evolution and is getting better with each expansion as a result- effectively producing a much better game. Just look at the improvements made in WotLK.
I do however hold that it is still one of the best games till date because of what it offers and still hold that it takes way more skill and cooperative coordination to achieve end-game goals in dungeons like SSC and onward than any Diablo 2 encounter. PvP itself also requires alot of skill- look at the arena ffs -it's developed into a pro-gaming E-sport. Diablo doesn't even have such dimensions in its pvp that you can go and draw up a comparison for.
Finally, If you're willing to call diablo fans idiots and assume that to be a diablo fan that you must hate wow, and also use WoW as a reference of something that Diablo III should not learn from... and after hearing sensible arguments from the other people here... then you really are beyond all hope of reasoning.
Good Luck. Not going to bother trolling this pointless discussion further.
So by respect the franchise, you mean remake the previous game and taking good, effective ideas from other games is prohibited? Got it.
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Apparently the game isn't so terrible if it's worth pirating.
Diablo 3 is stupid; it uses a mouse like soooooo many other games out there.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
That's pretty much what it seems like people want.
They want Diablo 2 with graphics that require a $3000 PC to run and no other changes... Other than taking all of the color out of the game and making it completely black and white so that it looks "creepy".
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
If you don't like the game, simply leave and make our lives better.
NO! We will not be satisfied until someone else bows to us and inflates our ego to ridiculous proportions! I WILL NOT REST UNTIL SOMEONE'S FEELINGS HAVE BEEN HURT!
Yeah... this is pretty stupid...
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
You've asked what bigger picture- and you've given yourself an answer- and then gone back to your stupid prejudice all over again. Thought process = fail.
Improvement is the key to all sequels. Blizzard using wow for that is not bastardizing the diablo series.
Just because you hate wow- doesn't make it a bad reference point for game developers.
If you want to be a critic - at least be a proper game critic and look at things as a game developer, businessman, designer, industry person would- instead of a mindless critic that judges blindly, holds prejudices while skipping right by the answers to his own questions...
EDIT: Lol @ BuzzSaw ...I see what you did thar!
amen.
the majority of us will be perfectly satisfied with the game when it is finally released.
i guess this is the true measure of our fanaticism.
So just to be clear here...you think that the improvements made are not for Diablo? Then what are they for? They are improvements for an RPG game- in case you didn't notice MMORPG has the words ROLE PLAYING GAME in it- just on a larger scale.
Taking ideas from it to filter into an RPG (small-scale) is not a sin. What is the big hooplah about really? Warcraft was an RTS that got blown up into an MMORPG- that got its advice from Diablo 2. Improvements flow in all directions regarding game genres- its been a staple in game development across many titles- not just Blizzard games.
In the end...How are these improvements NOT diablo related? Hell how are they not Starcraft Related or Warcraft related?
Explain that...That I would love to see in coherent logical english.
If you had read any of my posts, which are almost all suggestions for things to change to make D3 better than D2, you would know that is not what I meant. For that matter, you could have read some of my suggestions for D2 and how to make it better than D1. For example, the stamina bar was one of my suggestions back in the day. I don't know if they actually got the idea from reading one of my posts, but I did suggest it.
To be honest, I am sad that they are not adding more cool features from D3.
So far, the MAJORITY of new features are actually just REMOVED features. Lets consider the list of "NEW" features:
1) No more mana potions.
2) No more spellbooks
3) No more scary music in the background (only ear splitting ambient noise)
4) No more freedom to customize char by assigning attribute points
5) Less freedom to customize build by forcing more points into low-level skills, so you cant save them up ( skill saving was one of the best things in D2. It allowed you to increase your own difficulty level by not using skill points, for the reward of having a better end-game build. This was excellent.)
6) Less freedom to customize build by having far less basic attack skills (I dont care that you can slightly modify skills with a rune, thats not the same as a completely different way to attack)
6) No more dark scary looking dungeons
7) No more tetris- style inventory
8) Smaller hordes of monsters (they said this)
I could go on.
Now, let's consider some of the MAJOR things that D2 needed to be improved on:
1) In-game features to facillitate trading by allowing you to search for players currently online who wanted to buy/sell items by keyword. Because it was friggin horrible sitting in the trade channel for hours watching 1000 words fly by per second.
2) Not enough "uber" item choices for each slot..there was too much competition over individual items that were best for any build.
3) Less class-specific and set items, terrible idea to constantly give you drops for things that you either cannot use or cant collect all the set parts until you are too high level for it
4) Better PvP accomodations to keep the PKers out of your game by keeping them occupied elsewhere, and allowing people to fight in arenas and stuff...and fight over items that they ante, thus allowing players to focus more on PvP builds instead of everyone focusing on PvM
5) Better security on preventing cheats and hacks.
The only one of these major issues that they seem to be addressing is #5.
Yeah, this was back when SSC was the avant guarde. Not now, when idiots of all kinds farm it. Did you think I was bragging about having started SSC two weeks ago? Lol!
Why thank you. I'm getting tired of this senseless bickering myself.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I'm also a hardcore fan, and I remain one still and welcome the changes. If the game comes out and I'm proved wrong, then so be it, but I'm willing to allow chance and room for change.
1) I can live without.
2) They've been gone since D1 as far as I know.
3) Seemed plenty scary to me.
4) Will allow for more variety in the long run in my opinion.
5) I havent seen any proof of this, last I heard they said the 1/1 into attack skills is subject to change and was made that way just for the demo.
6) Maybe less attack skills but I personally like the new ones better and they seem like ones you will continue to use instead of disregard at higher levels.
6) (again?) They looked plenty dark and scary enough to me, even more so than D1 or D2 ones for the most part.
7) Goodbye to tetris style, I'm thankful.
8) They said before the demo that they'd probably have smaller hordes, but in the demo it looked about the same as most instances in D2.
Bragging or not- that's not the point. Whether SSC was the avant guarde or not- TBC was still in its baby phase. If you're not willing to take into account the stages of development and progression that the game underwent after that phase- then you're just being short sighted about WoW as a whole- and just bitter about your shitty experience.
You make some sensible points about WoW in reference to WoW- but absolutely no sense in comparing it to Diablo.
I'm sorry for not read all those replies. I read only the first and the second pages...
But here go my opnion:
1) The graphics are not great, but it isn't poor. It's a avarage graphics like most of blizz games.
2) Some ppl really stop in time. I'm sorry (and alot of ppl will flame me for that) but someone that still plays D2 hardcorish nowdays must have a terrible taste for games. Theres tons of best games outthere nowdays and Blizz Developers know that. Thats why D3 are very different from D2. Blizz are not trying to please the old fan base, they are trying to conquest a new fan base. Accept that. A small% of old fans may hate the new inventory, but a HUGE% of new fans hate the old inventory.
3) I agree with you. It's lame how ocidental RPG's are obsessive with balance (that will never ever exist) and makes the game more simple (easing the balance process).
But what was truly lame was D2 stats. A 99% of D2 Stats Build were stupid and pointless. D2 status system is cleary broken. As it seens that they no capacity of creating a decent status system, they just abondoned the idea and created a poor and fixed thing.
For me it's a shame. But theres is new features (like the new runes), so lets relax.
4) Hmm really disagree with you now.
What i don't like is get a skill and with 30 minutes of play get a better that will make the firts one useless. Then you use 1 or 2 skills of your build and the gameplay become just a mindless spam of the same strongest spell.
Of course, I would not appreciate wow's system here in diablo. Have around 40 spells to use would make the game very confusing and slow (like wow).
But they said that they are focusing on make the player have(and USE) around 6 skills, each is the perfect number imo. And i see no problem in use a low level skill in high end - actually, it's synonymous of quality.
5) Respec only brings replayability u.u' You may think that everyone would restart a 90+ character because they made build mistake, but you're wrong. Most of ppl would stop playing in this situation. Put a respec in the game can make the fans that are getting bored with the high level char (but don't wanna start one from the begning) keep playing.
I'm sorry, and i undestand that you're getting disapointed.
Thats because the game will be launched in 2009. Outdated mechanics that the old hardcore fans like will be surelly eliminated. They are trying to make something actual.
Hahaha some ppl must be thinking ''wth that guy that says most of D2's features are broken and stupid are doing in a diablo fan forum?''.
I'm here because 5 years ago i played D2 like hell and sometimes i play a little just for nostalgy (and i've been waiting D3 for a loooong time).
But i must admite: If D2 would be released nowdays it would be a terrible game.
And believe me: they (guys from blizz) know that.
Think of it as a game developer...trying to bring a game out of tediousness and obsolescence and into streamlined gameplay with focus on fun...
1) Potions issue- it was tedious to keep stacking your belt with potions - both health and mana. Countless TPing to town to get more potions. Exciting? I think not...
2) Spellbooks- again addressed in the BlizzCon Panels- just made everything too bleak and random in a bad way. They liked it - but they've refined its flavour into Skill Runes- which honestly is one of the coolest new ideas they've put out thus far.
3) Comment on this when the game is out...there's absolutely no solid and progressive evidence to be critical on this point thus far- the game is still in friggin pre-alpha development...
4) Made this point a hundred times by now- stops the bastardization of the general path of each class. Keeps wizards wizards and barbarians barbarians- and not confuses their essential roles. Not the end of the world this little change...
5) You're still thinking in terms of Diablo II where you had better and effectively the only worthy skills in later tiers. The new system encourages you to use what you have throughout the game- instead of just offering you trash abilities to use at one part of the game - that you later discard as the game goes on. This way the devs develop skills that are as relevant late game -as they are early game. ALSO - respeccing means that you don't have to save shit...just spend early on and if you want to reinvest as you see fit- then go ahead.
6) Not sure what you're getting at here.
6 again?) You've only seen an inkling of the game...No dark scary dungeons? Think about it from the perspective of only having seen the Dry Hills as a preview of Diablo 2...you'd be crying about colour and no darkness...that's effectively what's going on. The team has commented that things will get darker and just to prove it they showed off how ominous Tristram itself is- imagine further levels.
7) Tetris Fetish- highly inefficient- too much clicking- takes away from actually playing the game and makes you waste time in storage when you should be spending time playing the damn game. It was a nightmare to manage shit when you have too many things to pick up and led to the whole 'mule' char concept.
8) Smaller hordes? There were insane bunches of monsters in the gameplay videos...especially in the first one right at the start- that was a literal swarm of monsters. They even said that they want you to be killing loads of monsters- and again we've only seen a snippet of monsters to come...
And of course, this is the absolutely best way of getting a best possible Diablo 3?
This is what I don't get. Critizism from consumers/costumers should be considered healthy not _whining_. What a stupid Idea is it not to shut up and get what is served? Better to tell the cook how you like your beef cooked in advance than afterwards!!
Sure some postings are a bit foolish and whiny, but alot of them are very good and informative!
Blizzard! Please stop trying to build a Utopia. Let people remain individuals and choose how they wanna play. Let people make mistakes, that way if they play the game longer, they become better and more knowledgeable. instead you're letting every noob be pro because you've already handled everything through automation. Laaaaaaaame.
Not to dash what you're saying snoemann. You are right...but I think what's bothering is how there is less and less constructive criticism and more and more bitching in forums these days. There is little or no perspective on game mechanics evolution and development. More focus is given to the attitude "I want my old toys back".
I mean cmon- half the time we have people crying about the game not being dark enough because there's a shade of blue or green in the dungeon instead of it being black...and then there's the - OH ITS LIKE WoW lot. How many people actually give a shit about contrast, 3D setting and how the colours make things stand out, or how removed mechanics make the gameplay less tedious?
The perspective is the annoying thing- because its so blatantly blind fingerpointing instead of well presented criticism or solutions.