Wow. Play the game before you decide to lose faith. All this arguing is pathedic. Oh and by the way STOP COMPARING EVERYTHING TO WOW!!! EVERYTHING YOU SAID HAD WOW IN IT!!! OMFG I think this is in wow thats in wow this is in wow i mean holy shit! Play the game before you go gay over it. Damn.
Once the average consumer pays their $49.99 for the game, the game is done being changed. The only way to avoid losing faith is to raise a stink before the development cycle is finished. So really, the people that complain the most are the most hardcore fans.
And the comparisons to WoW are not spurious, it is after all the same company that developed WoW, and based on the massive success it would make sense that they would follow a similar model to try and reap the same profits. And their design changes reflect an eerie similarity to WoW, and the fact that the game is still a ways off means its likely to even further follow the model in an effort to not only enitce WoW subscribers to buy D3, but also to keep their WoW accounts open.
Besides, the only way to get to developers who were once modders and now stamp down on the mod community (hypocrites) is to use strong language and even threats of boycott, as the only thing that motivates developers and publishers to change is a threat to the moneybags.
Once the average consumer pays their $49.99 for the game, the game is done being changed. The only way to avoid losing faith is to raise a stink before the development cycle is finished. So really, the people that complain the most are the most hardcore fans.
And the comparisons to WoW are not spurious, it is after all the same company that developed WoW, and based on the massive success it would make sense that they would follow a similar model to try and reap the same profits. And their design changes reflect an eerie similarity to WoW, and the fact that the game is still a ways off means its likely to even further follow the model in an effort to not only enitce WoW subscribers to buy D3, but also to keep their WoW accounts open.
Besides, the only way to get to developers who were once modders and now stamp down on the mod community (hypocrites) is to use strong language and even threats of boycott, as the only thing that motivates developers and publishers to change is a threat to the moneybags.
Ive been playin the Diablo series for 8 years and im in love with it. Idk how you count yourself as a hardcore diablo fan or not I would classify myself as a hardcore diablo fan i dont know what your requirments are about it but I accept these changes. Right now the only thing that can ruin the game for me is well the natural things but the BIGGEST thing is if the story line and lore dont make any sense. If the storyline is crap that is what will make me complain and bitch and moan like you guys But untill then I think everyone should stop complaning and wait................and not loose our minds waiting
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Ive been playin the Diablo series for 8 years and im in love with it. Idk how you count yourself as a hardcore diablo fan or not I would classify myself as a hardcore diablo fan i dont know what your requirments are about it but I accept these changes. Right now the only thing that can ruin the game for me is well the natural things but the BIGGEST thing is if the story line and lore dont make any sense. If the storyline is crap that is what will make me complain and bitch and moan like you guys But untill then I think everyone should stop complaning and wait................and not loose our minds waiting
Its quite simple. Those who bend over with a smile on their face are not hardcore fans. Those that smile while the game franchise they loved is slowly morphing into a P2P, DLC, microtransaction mockery of its original self are not hardcore fans.
And you're certainly not hardcore if you think the main draw to the Diablo franchise is story and lore lol. The main draw is whirlwinding through a bunch of enemies as they explode on screen. Diablo is a visceral action oriented RPG. You want story, go play Baldur's Gate.
But the moment you stop complaining and taking an active interest is the moment you lose any influence over the creative process whatsoever, minimal as it may be.
Its quite simple. Those who bend over with a smile on their face are not hardcore fans. Those that smile while the game franchise they loved is slowly morphing into a P2P, DLC, microtransaction mockery of its original self are not hardcore fans.
And you're certainly not hardcore if you think the main draw to the Diablo franchise is story and lore lol. The main draw is whirlwinding through a bunch of enemies as they explode on screen. Diablo is a visceral action oriented RPG. You want story, go play Baldur's Gate.
But the moment you stop complaining and taking an active interest is the moment you lose any influence over the creative process whatsoever, minimal as it may be.
Sorry I didnt make it clear enough or explain enough but the story is no the only main draw. If they just threw together a crappy game on a platter and said heres d3 id flip em off and tell em to get back in the kitchen. Bur right now I dont see many things that I hate about the game. The next thing I want to know if the storyline holds up and is as amazing. I loved ww into a bunch of mosnters watching them explode I just hated ww into a bunch of monsters watching them AND me explode (Damn stygan dolls espeshally in hell) and I have alot of faith in blizzard for there changes. I mean people were bitchin at blizzard goin from d1 to d2. D2 turned out to be amazing and accept those changes. If we can do that then we can shure as hell do it now
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If you want to arrange it
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If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Maybe they should just repackage Diablo 2 and sell it as Diablo 3? That way nothing would change and everything would be "perfect".
I thought they made new games to change things and try to make them better... Not to stay the exact same.
/agreed!!!!!!! Just like d1 to d2 peopel bitched and moaned but LOOK AT DIABLO2!!!! Then people bitch and moan couse some ideas are taken from WoW. I dont know how long I can stand ppl bitchin about the same thing over and over and over.
We shoudent even be arguing. D3 is going to turn out magnificant and we will one day look back at ourselves and laugh. This is how it will be in the end.
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If you want to arrange it
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If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Maybe they should just repackage Diablo 2 and sell it as Diablo 3? That way nothing would change and everything would be "perfect".
I thought they made new games to change things and try to make them better... Not to stay the exact same.
I never said I wanted the exact same game.
However, what most successful franchises do is build upon the success of their forbear. Diablo 1 had spells that were the same across all classes, with a few minimal skill differences. Attributes were left to the player, as were the levels of the spells.
Diablo 2 expanded upon the idea, with more classes, and varied skills for each class that made contextual sense. The skill system was revised to be class specific, and made into a tiered system that meant you built up a skill base. LoD further expanded upon this idea, introducing things like skill synergies, runewords, and more.
Diablo 3 gets rid of the attribute system, so no more creating your character as you see fit (bye bye Singing Barbs and Meleemancers), changes the skill system to have fewer skills but with a point system very similar to the WoW skill system.
Normally, when I buy a sequel, I expect the original plus better graphics, updated story to account for the original, as well as gameplay improvements. NOT removal of systems and ideas that worked. The whole point of a sequel is you build upon the original, much like a building upon a foundation.
What happens to a building once you start hacking away at the foundation? It falls upon itself.
What Blizzard is doing is moving Diablo to a more WoW oriented style, to make transition of their 9 million playerbase easier and facilitate sales. In much the same way as a PC game will be dumbed down in development due to the console market (i.e. Oblivion), Diablo is being streamlined for the WoW market. Which is why if you look at the Wizard skill tree for example, it reads almost like the skill descriptions of the WoW Mage. Blizzard probably thought they were being clever in naming the class Wizard, to throw off people's claims that they are basically copying WoW's concept.
Makes good sense economically, but it hardly captures the original spirit D1 and 2 inspired in the playerbase. Microtransactions have been hinted at, as has P2P, both of which automatically dismiss the game from consideration for me. Not to mention the hostile stance Blizzard has taken to the modding community, despite having come from the same humble roots.
Hypocrites.
And btw, I've watched the gameplay videos, and all I can say is it looks very much like Nox, a game that came out EIGHT YEARS AGO. Food for thought...
However, what most successful franchises do is build upon the success of their forbear. Diablo 1 had spells that were the same across all classes, with a few minimal skill differences. Attributes were left to the player, as were the levels of the spells.
Diablo 2 expanded upon the idea, with more classes, and varied skills for each class that made contextual sense. The skill system was revised to be class specific, and made into a tiered system that meant you built up a skill base. LoD further expanded upon this idea, introducing things like skill synergies, runewords, and more.
Diablo 3 gets rid of the attribute system, so no more creating your character as you see fit (bye bye Singing Barbs and Meleemancers), changes the skill system to have fewer skills but with a point system very similar to the WoW skill system.
Normally, when I buy a sequel, I expect the original plus better graphics, updated story to account for the original, as well as gameplay improvements. NOT removal of systems and ideas that worked. The whole point of a sequel is you build upon the original, much like a building upon a foundation.
What happens to a building once you start hacking away at the foundation? It falls upon itself.
What Blizzard is doing is moving Diablo to a more WoW oriented style, to make transition of their 9 million playerbase easier and facilitate sales. In much the same way as a PC game will be dumbed down in development due to the console market (i.e. Oblivion), Diablo is being streamlined for the WoW market. Which is why if you look at the Wizard skill tree for example, it reads almost like the skill descriptions of the WoW Mage. Blizzard probably thought they were being clever in naming the class Wizard, to throw off people's claims that they are basically copying WoW's concept.
Makes good sense economically, but it hardly captures the original spirit D1 and 2 inspired in the playerbase. Microtransactions have been hinted at, as has P2P, both of which automatically dismiss the game from consideration for me. Not to mention the hostile stance Blizzard has taken to the modding community, despite having come from the same humble roots.
Hypocrites.
And btw, I've watched the gameplay videos, and all I can say is it looks very much like Nox, a game that came out EIGHT YEARS AGO. Food for thought...
AH! I see what you are saying now. I guess its like makin a building taller but making it slanted or only putting half of it on or makin the top part hand half way on top and the other hangin on to air.
(Nox is better than LOD.)
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If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
However, what most successful franchises do is build upon the success of their forbear. Diablo 1 had spells that were the same across all classes, with a few minimal skill differences. Attributes were left to the player, as were the levels of the spells.
Diablo 2 expanded upon the idea, with more classes, and varied skills for each class that made contextual sense. The skill system was revised to be class specific, and made into a tiered system that meant you built up a skill base. LoD further expanded upon this idea, introducing things like skill synergies, runewords, and more.
Diablo 3 gets rid of the attribute system, so no more creating your character as you see fit (bye bye Singing Barbs and Meleemancers), changes the skill system to have fewer skills but with a point system very similar to the WoW skill system.
Normally, when I buy a sequel, I expect the original plus better graphics, updated story to account for the original, as well as gameplay improvements. NOT removal of systems and ideas that worked. The whole point of a sequel is you build upon the original, much like a building upon a foundation.
What happens to a building once you start hacking away at the foundation? It falls upon itself.
What Blizzard is doing is moving Diablo to a more WoW oriented style, to make transition of their 9 million playerbase easier and facilitate sales. In much the same way as a PC game will be dumbed down in development due to the console market (i.e. Oblivion), Diablo is being streamlined for the WoW market. Which is why if you look at the Wizard skill tree for example, it reads almost like the skill descriptions of the WoW Mage. Blizzard probably thought they were being clever in naming the class Wizard, to throw off people's claims that they are basically copying WoW's concept.
Makes good sense economically, but it hardly captures the original spirit D1 and 2 inspired in the playerbase. Microtransactions have been hinted at, as has P2P, both of which automatically dismiss the game from consideration for me. Not to mention the hostile stance Blizzard has taken to the modding community, despite having come from the same humble roots.
Hypocrites.
And btw, I've watched the gameplay videos, and all I can say is it looks very much like Nox, a game that came out EIGHT YEARS AGO. Food for thought...
You do realize that they said synergies are coming back? They are really only changing one thing from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3 and that is the ability to attribute your own stats. Distributing your own stats by the way did NOT work well and lead to many overpowered builds such as the pure energy sorc that could never die... Not to mention almost all characters used the exact same stats regardless.
So they change one thing and all of the sudden they are crippling the game? It is ridiculous, people are just looking for a reason to complain.
I also am baffled as to how people are so upset that they would take ideas from WoW. WoW took ideas from the Diablo series as well. WoW is one of the most successful, addictive and fun games of all time... Why would they not use certain ideas from such a successful game? Just like it would have been foolish to purposefully ignore any ideas ever used in the Diablo series while building World of Warcraft.
And how are they being clever using the term 'Wizard' to try and throw people off? If they would have kept the name as Sorcerer and Sorceress how would have that lead people to believe that they were 'copying' WoW? You do realize that the spell caster in WoW are Mages, Clerics and Warlocks... Right?
I also think it is absolutely hilarious that you look at the Wizard's skill tree and automatically assume that it is complete or finished. The game has been announced for what... Three months now? You are honestly foolish enough to believe that a class just announced yesterday is already completely finished? They said in the end game of Diablo 3 they want you to be using up to 6 different skills at once, there are barely even six useable skills in all of the trees displayed.
You do realize that they said synergies are coming back? They are really only changing one thing from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3 and that is the ability to attribute your own stats. Distributing your own stats by the way did NOT work well and lead to many overpowered builds such as the pure energy sorc that could never die... Not to mention almost all characters used the exact same stats regardless.
Did not work well? Did you ever play a Singing Barb in an 8 player party who was able to pretty much lockdown a mob allowing the others to destroy everything? The original "tank." Or an 8 Pally party where some were all Vit Hammerdins, some were Dex Zealots, and others Strength Chargers? Or the balanced Melee Sorc/Meleemancer? Or Sword Dodge Zons? Don't cite one example of an overpowered build (which is an issue of one skill's function) as proof that an entire system doesn't work. That's a fallacy of logic.
So they change one thing and all of the sudden they are crippling the game? It is ridiculous, people are just looking for a reason to complain.
Obviously its important to a lot of people who see it as further dumbing down of the gaming industry. Its one less option of customization, and is the same thing that happened with games like Oblivion, and most likely will continue to happen as the gaming world becomes more docile and pliable.
I also am baffled as to how people are so upset that they would take ideas from WoW. WoW took ideas from the Diablo series as well. WoW is one of the most successful, addictive and fun games of all time... Why would they not use certain ideas from such a successful game? Just like it would have been foolish to purposefully ignore any ideas ever used in the Diablo series while building World of Warcraft.
WoW is addictive yes, but many I know who play consider it work, but cannot give it up because they've already invested so much time into it. What ideas did WoW take away from Diablo I might ask? I was under he impression that MOST of WoW was taken from its namesake Warcraft, I have yet to see Baal/Mephisto as a boss, nor have I met any Barbarians or undead raising Necromancers.
And how are they being clever using the term 'Wizard' to try and throw people off? If they would have kept the name as Sorcerer and Sorceress how would have that lead people to believe that they were 'copying' WoW? You do realize that the spell caster in WoW are Mages, Clerics and Warlocks... Right?
Look at the "Wizard's" skill tree and then look at the WoW Mage's. You'll notice striking similarities. My comment was mostly tongue in cheek, because any moron can see that Blizzard is simply copy/pasting a lot of WoW into D3.
I also think it is absolutely hilarious that you look at the Wizard's skill tree and automatically assume that it is complete or finished. The game has been announced for what... Three months now? You are honestly foolish enough to believe that a class just announced yesterday is already completely finished? They said in the end game of Diablo 3 they want you to be using up to 6 different skills at once, there are barely even six useable skills in all of the trees displayed.
I'm pretty sure I didn't mention anything about it being finished, in fact I'm sure its not. I fully expect them to include Arcane Brilliance, perhaps Conjuring of Health/Mana "orbs", an elemental summon, and others. Wouldn't want the WoW players who buy D3 to have to navigate new and unfamiliar territory now can we? Their small brains can't cope, according to Blizzard's design philosophy.
You do realize that Blizzard's focus has been on WoW the past several years up unitl now; as a result, we will see similar innovative features used in WoW in Diablo 3. Blizzard threw out the old inventory system of Diablo 1 and 2. Hellgate London was criticized for it's horrible tetris style inventory system in which seems to be what your describing, unless there were automatic organization buttons to chose from in Diablo 1 and 2.
The majority of developers that made Diablo 1 and 2 are not working on Diablo 3, I believe a lot of the developers that worked on WoW are helping out with Diablo 3, so it's obvious the way Diablo 3 is turning out and I dont think it's neccesarily bad although I wish I saw more actual demons instead of frogs and blobs.
I think respec is great, I don't get why people think it's fun to mess up on skill points and as a result start a charcter over for " replayability ". There are around 4 classes and if you want to make a run through with each class on multiple difficulties, that's enough replayability for me, I don't need to worry about all the crap regarding skill point distribution.
Hopefully fan boys wont freak out and throw riots because there are respec which often happens.
I'm guessing by the time Diablo 3 releases the graphics will be enhanced or upgraded along with certain features to toggle on or off depending on the resorces your PC has. Diablo 3 is probably in an early build still, who knows. The environments might not look amazing in graphical detail, but the gore, physics, and player/creature animations are pretty good, which is probably more important considering it's a hack n slash. Hack n Slashes don't always have the most detailed environments, in fact, most Hack N Slashes have really bland environments, so Diablo 3 looks great when compared to others. Titan Quest did pretty good though as far as night/day cycle with detailed environments goes. Titan Quest had no randomization at all though except item drops.
Diablo 3 might not have graphically superior environments, but it has detail alright, plus the ability to interact with the environment is a first, for example, knocking a large stone slab off of a cliff and killing several hostiles.
In fact, Diablo 1 and 2 are the only computer games I have ever considered myself a fan of. Other games I never played more than a week...whereas I played Diablo 1 and 2 for many years each.
Today is Blizzcon and I should be more pumped than ever about Diablo 3. However, the more information about the game I learn, I must confess that I only grow more disappointed. This doesn't sound like a game that respects what we have come to love about the Diablo franchise, and I think I'm going to stop spending my time on the forums giving feedback and suggestions.
My reasons for having lost interest are the following:
1) Poor graphics. As a digital artist who specializes in both 2D digital painting and 3D modeling, I have a keen eye for graphics. I do not appreciate the low contrast outdoor scenes, the low poly geometry, the excessive use of bright colors, the cartoony look, nor the lack of normal bump maps. I do not feel that the dungeons look dark or gloomy at all. It all looks incredibly cheesy and I can't believe they are using such out-dated low poly models. Come on. This is Blizzard, can't you hire some artists that are AT LEAST industry-PAR? This looks like the graphics from 5 years ago. It looks like WoW graphics.
2) The inventory system has been demolished. One of the main reasons I loved Diablo was that it used the novel puzzle-style inventory. I thought this was obsolutely genious. It allowed the player to reorganize their backpack in a way that felt like I was actually reorganizing a backpack. That was fun. It also made big items feel bigger and more important than small items. It looks like a WoW inventory.
3) I do not like the automatic distribution of attribute points. This is incredibly lame.
4) I do not like the new skill point assignment system. It forces players to put many skill points into low-level skills before unlocking high level skills. It also has very few options about specific damage dealing moves, which are gained at low levels and simply buffed up throughout. I don't want to be using the same skill at level 90 that someone uses at level 1, and I don't want my only specialization options to be which buffs I choose to put on my lightning bolt, or whatever. I hear this is like WoW.
5) I do not like the allowance for respeccing. It like to plan out a character and have to make good decisions that I will be penalized for later on. If I make a mistake, then that's just replayability. NO amount of respeccing comes without detriment to the games replayability. I think this is like WoW too.
These are my major complaints, and I hope that someone reads them and takes note. I am sure I am not the only hardcore lifelong blizzard fan who feels betrayed by Blizzard now. They clearly consider themselves the cat's meow, but I just hope they aren't so cocky that they have to wait until they see they are not getting the kind of sales they expected to realize that all their butchery to what made Diablo great comes at a cost.
RESPECT THE FRANCHISE.
1. no
2. no
3. Yes, it prevents us from making builds like the Melee "wizard" among others...
4. Yes, I think buffing skills should be on the side while I can use any skill in the tree without having to put any amount of points into poo skills...
5. 100% but it's most likely the people who have played the game form the start that agree....
1) Imo the graphics are fine. Makes it sure that it runs smoothly even with 8 players on screen spamming stuff. Would you like to be the one explaining the millions of low end computer owners that "hey go buy a top computer to play D3"
2) I love the new inventory, thers nothing about D2 invetory I'd like to see in D3.
3) Automatic stat hmm.. yea it might be tough one to digest but if they work it out nicely to the game it doesn't bother me. In Baldurs Gate you don't get to put any stats after you have created your character and it doesn't feel any bad.
4) D2 skill system sucks, no matter what they do with D3, it will probably be a lot better. They were talking about having 6 active skills and bunch of passive, sounds great.
5) Hm yea respec doesn't sound too good, only if the skill trees allow a huge variety of different kind of builds, it might be nice so that you don't need to create 20 wizards.
1) Imo the graphics are fine. Makes it sure that it runs smoothly even with 8 players on screen spamming stuff. Would you like to be the one explaining the millions of low end computer owners that "hey go buy a top computer to play D3"
At some point, the consumer is responsible for keeping up with current technology. If we followed your logic, developers would still be designing with the Commodore 64's specs.
2) I love the new inventory, thers nothing about D2 invetory I'd like to see in D3.
I want an inventory where the amount carried is felt. D2 was better because you didn't have the rediculous option of carrying twenty suits of armor alongside thirty different weapons.
3) Automatic stat hmm.. yea it might be tough one to digest but if they work it out nicely to the game it doesn't bother me. In Baldurs Gate you don't get to put any stats after you have created your character and it doesn't feel any bad.
Baldur's Gate is based on an entirely different system. Plus, D&D's natural evolution has gone from a static attribute system to one where you DO increase it as you level, subject to play balance. To go from more customization to less is bass ackwards.
4) D2 skill system sucks, no matter what they do with D3, it will probably be a lot better. They were talking about having 6 active skills and bunch of passive, sounds great.
I thought it was fine given the scope of the game. Having all those different skills, while of course giving rise to "cookie-cutter" builds, also allowed for experimentation and creativity. The addition of synergies in LoD further refined the concept. It was MORE choice and customization.
For D3 to have FEWER skills radically alters the gameplay experience. Having 6 or 9 fully fleshed out skills as your only choices IMHO is worse than having 30 skills that you can mix and match, especially given the improvements LoD brought. D3 should have MORE than 30 skills per character with the skill system they're putting in place.
5) Hm yea respec doesn't sound too good, only if the skill trees allow a huge variety of different kind of builds, it might be nice so that you don't need to create 20 wizards.
I'm on the fence about re-speccing. Its not very RPish, but allows for less downtime as you learn the game and character class. I hope re-speccing isn't one of the "monetized features" though, because that's a shitty way to backdoor noobs.
WoW is addictive yes, but many I know who play consider it work, but cannot give it up because they've already invested so much time into it. What ideas did WoW take away from Diablo I might ask? I was under he impression that MOST of WoW was taken from its namesake Warcraft, I have yet to see Baal/Mephisto as a boss, nor have I met any Barbarians or undead raising Necromancers.
You're right, I suppose there's nothing really that could be considered taken from Diablo in WoW. Blizzard doesn't make little throwbacks to it's previous titles unrelated in it's games.
You're right, I suppose there's nothing really that could be considered taken from Diablo in WoW. Blizzard doesn't make little throwbacks to it's previous titles unrelated in it's games.
According to your logic, WoW is based upon Army of Darkness.
There's a difference between making an homage to a former title, and basing the development of the new title upon another.
Personally I would have preferred they try to make D3 more like D1 and D2, rather than WoW, but that's just me I guess.
Lol, I said Wow is Based upon Diablo? I just pointed to something related in it. Apart from skills being called talents and having "ranks" I don't really see how it's turned into WoW, Having played the previous Diablos and many hours of WoW I can safely say that D3 looks like it's own entity and I'm very glad that we aren't seeing a blatant rehash for the gameplay elements.
Just a few names and references, that can be said for any blizzard title. The gameplay looks all original and Diabloish to me
Lol, I said Wow is Based upon Diablo? I just pointed to something related in it. Apart from skills being called talents and having "ranks" I don't really see how it's turned into WoW, Having played the previous Diablos and many hours of WoW I can safely say that D3 looks like it's own entity and I'm very glad that we aren't seeing a blatant rehash for the gameplay elements.
Just a few names and references, that can be said for any blizzard title. The gameplay looks all original and Diabloish to me
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Just for your consideration, look at the first couple of posts here:
And tell me that the descriptions and such don't INSTANTLY remind you of WoW. Or that magic in Sanctuary has gone from Elemental to including Conjures and Arcane.
I'm honestly not bothered by it, Blizzard can do whatever they want, I'm just voicing my opinion so that hopefully, all aspects of a situation are examined. I'll never understand why forums always polarize into people criticizing and people defending, the defenders always seem to have a personal stake in the game development, while the criticizers always seem to want to just tear down.
As a fence sitter, I'll wait and see, while at the same time try to add in constructive criticism which hopefully is taken in good humour.
The ones who are worried about not having stat distribution... did you plan on upping dexterity on your wizard? Energy on your barbarian? I don't think so. Everyone ends up putting in the same points as always to min/max so it doesn't really matter that it's automatic.
This also means you won't need to put minimum points in "xx stats" ahead of time to plan on wearing "xx gear"
This is why instead of removing said system you give a reason for the Barbarian to up mana/the wizard to up dex. For example in the Wizard's stat tree there seems the option of runninga more "physical" mage, with a melee sword, a skill that ups weapon damage, stone skin, etc. Why shouldn't I be able to up strength and con for this mage and make one designed around that?
This is a poor decision on their part. More customizability is always better, as it allows more variety in builds, as long as you give reasons for the stats. It makes it so every Barbarian isn't the same as each other (if done right) and gives more opportunity to play with skills (like a warcry barb and such).
Removing the stat altering makes it feel less like Diablo and with respeccing, there is now no need to ever play the game again with another Barb once it's been beaten. Losing replayability is a bad business decision on their part.
Once the average consumer pays their $49.99 for the game, the game is done being changed. The only way to avoid losing faith is to raise a stink before the development cycle is finished. So really, the people that complain the most are the most hardcore fans.
And the comparisons to WoW are not spurious, it is after all the same company that developed WoW, and based on the massive success it would make sense that they would follow a similar model to try and reap the same profits. And their design changes reflect an eerie similarity to WoW, and the fact that the game is still a ways off means its likely to even further follow the model in an effort to not only enitce WoW subscribers to buy D3, but also to keep their WoW accounts open.
Besides, the only way to get to developers who were once modders and now stamp down on the mod community (hypocrites) is to use strong language and even threats of boycott, as the only thing that motivates developers and publishers to change is a threat to the moneybags.
Ive been playin the Diablo series for 8 years and im in love with it. Idk how you count yourself as a hardcore diablo fan or not I would classify myself as a hardcore diablo fan i dont know what your requirments are about it but I accept these changes. Right now the only thing that can ruin the game for me is well the natural things but the BIGGEST thing is if the story line and lore dont make any sense. If the storyline is crap that is what will make me complain and bitch and moan like you guys But untill then I think everyone should stop complaning and wait................and not loose our minds waiting
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Its quite simple. Those who bend over with a smile on their face are not hardcore fans. Those that smile while the game franchise they loved is slowly morphing into a P2P, DLC, microtransaction mockery of its original self are not hardcore fans.
And you're certainly not hardcore if you think the main draw to the Diablo franchise is story and lore lol. The main draw is whirlwinding through a bunch of enemies as they explode on screen. Diablo is a visceral action oriented RPG. You want story, go play Baldur's Gate.
But the moment you stop complaining and taking an active interest is the moment you lose any influence over the creative process whatsoever, minimal as it may be.
Sorry I didnt make it clear enough or explain enough but the story is no the only main draw. If they just threw together a crappy game on a platter and said heres d3 id flip em off and tell em to get back in the kitchen. Bur right now I dont see many things that I hate about the game. The next thing I want to know if the storyline holds up and is as amazing. I loved ww into a bunch of mosnters watching them explode I just hated ww into a bunch of monsters watching them AND me explode (Damn stygan dolls espeshally in hell) and I have alot of faith in blizzard for there changes. I mean people were bitchin at blizzard goin from d1 to d2. D2 turned out to be amazing and accept those changes. If we can do that then we can shure as hell do it now
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I thought they made new games to change things and try to make them better... Not to stay the exact same.
/agreed!!!!!!! Just like d1 to d2 peopel bitched and moaned but LOOK AT DIABLO2!!!! Then people bitch and moan couse some ideas are taken from WoW. I dont know how long I can stand ppl bitchin about the same thing over and over and over.
We shoudent even be arguing. D3 is going to turn out magnificant and we will one day look back at ourselves and laugh. This is how it will be in the end.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I never said I wanted the exact same game.
However, what most successful franchises do is build upon the success of their forbear. Diablo 1 had spells that were the same across all classes, with a few minimal skill differences. Attributes were left to the player, as were the levels of the spells.
Diablo 2 expanded upon the idea, with more classes, and varied skills for each class that made contextual sense. The skill system was revised to be class specific, and made into a tiered system that meant you built up a skill base. LoD further expanded upon this idea, introducing things like skill synergies, runewords, and more.
Diablo 3 gets rid of the attribute system, so no more creating your character as you see fit (bye bye Singing Barbs and Meleemancers), changes the skill system to have fewer skills but with a point system very similar to the WoW skill system.
Normally, when I buy a sequel, I expect the original plus better graphics, updated story to account for the original, as well as gameplay improvements. NOT removal of systems and ideas that worked. The whole point of a sequel is you build upon the original, much like a building upon a foundation.
What happens to a building once you start hacking away at the foundation? It falls upon itself.
What Blizzard is doing is moving Diablo to a more WoW oriented style, to make transition of their 9 million playerbase easier and facilitate sales. In much the same way as a PC game will be dumbed down in development due to the console market (i.e. Oblivion), Diablo is being streamlined for the WoW market. Which is why if you look at the Wizard skill tree for example, it reads almost like the skill descriptions of the WoW Mage. Blizzard probably thought they were being clever in naming the class Wizard, to throw off people's claims that they are basically copying WoW's concept.
Makes good sense economically, but it hardly captures the original spirit D1 and 2 inspired in the playerbase. Microtransactions have been hinted at, as has P2P, both of which automatically dismiss the game from consideration for me. Not to mention the hostile stance Blizzard has taken to the modding community, despite having come from the same humble roots.
Hypocrites.
And btw, I've watched the gameplay videos, and all I can say is it looks very much like Nox, a game that came out EIGHT YEARS AGO. Food for thought...
AH! I see what you are saying now. I guess its like makin a building taller but making it slanted or only putting half of it on or makin the top part hand half way on top and the other hangin on to air.
(Nox is better than LOD.)
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
You do realize that they said synergies are coming back? They are really only changing one thing from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3 and that is the ability to attribute your own stats. Distributing your own stats by the way did NOT work well and lead to many overpowered builds such as the pure energy sorc that could never die... Not to mention almost all characters used the exact same stats regardless.
So they change one thing and all of the sudden they are crippling the game? It is ridiculous, people are just looking for a reason to complain.
I also am baffled as to how people are so upset that they would take ideas from WoW. WoW took ideas from the Diablo series as well. WoW is one of the most successful, addictive and fun games of all time... Why would they not use certain ideas from such a successful game? Just like it would have been foolish to purposefully ignore any ideas ever used in the Diablo series while building World of Warcraft.
And how are they being clever using the term 'Wizard' to try and throw people off? If they would have kept the name as Sorcerer and Sorceress how would have that lead people to believe that they were 'copying' WoW? You do realize that the spell caster in WoW are Mages, Clerics and Warlocks... Right?
I also think it is absolutely hilarious that you look at the Wizard's skill tree and automatically assume that it is complete or finished. The game has been announced for what... Three months now? You are honestly foolish enough to believe that a class just announced yesterday is already completely finished? They said in the end game of Diablo 3 they want you to be using up to 6 different skills at once, there are barely even six useable skills in all of the trees displayed.
Did not work well? Did you ever play a Singing Barb in an 8 player party who was able to pretty much lockdown a mob allowing the others to destroy everything? The original "tank." Or an 8 Pally party where some were all Vit Hammerdins, some were Dex Zealots, and others Strength Chargers? Or the balanced Melee Sorc/Meleemancer? Or Sword Dodge Zons? Don't cite one example of an overpowered build (which is an issue of one skill's function) as proof that an entire system doesn't work. That's a fallacy of logic.
Obviously its important to a lot of people who see it as further dumbing down of the gaming industry. Its one less option of customization, and is the same thing that happened with games like Oblivion, and most likely will continue to happen as the gaming world becomes more docile and pliable.
WoW is addictive yes, but many I know who play consider it work, but cannot give it up because they've already invested so much time into it. What ideas did WoW take away from Diablo I might ask? I was under he impression that MOST of WoW was taken from its namesake Warcraft, I have yet to see Baal/Mephisto as a boss, nor have I met any Barbarians or undead raising Necromancers.
Look at the "Wizard's" skill tree and then look at the WoW Mage's. You'll notice striking similarities. My comment was mostly tongue in cheek, because any moron can see that Blizzard is simply copy/pasting a lot of WoW into D3.
I'm pretty sure I didn't mention anything about it being finished, in fact I'm sure its not. I fully expect them to include Arcane Brilliance, perhaps Conjuring of Health/Mana "orbs", an elemental summon, and others. Wouldn't want the WoW players who buy D3 to have to navigate new and unfamiliar territory now can we? Their small brains can't cope, according to Blizzard's design philosophy.
You do realize that Blizzard's focus has been on WoW the past several years up unitl now; as a result, we will see similar innovative features used in WoW in Diablo 3. Blizzard threw out the old inventory system of Diablo 1 and 2. Hellgate London was criticized for it's horrible tetris style inventory system in which seems to be what your describing, unless there were automatic organization buttons to chose from in Diablo 1 and 2.
The majority of developers that made Diablo 1 and 2 are not working on Diablo 3, I believe a lot of the developers that worked on WoW are helping out with Diablo 3, so it's obvious the way Diablo 3 is turning out and I dont think it's neccesarily bad although I wish I saw more actual demons instead of frogs and blobs.
I think respec is great, I don't get why people think it's fun to mess up on skill points and as a result start a charcter over for " replayability ". There are around 4 classes and if you want to make a run through with each class on multiple difficulties, that's enough replayability for me, I don't need to worry about all the crap regarding skill point distribution.
Hopefully fan boys wont freak out and throw riots because there are respec which often happens.
I'm guessing by the time Diablo 3 releases the graphics will be enhanced or upgraded along with certain features to toggle on or off depending on the resorces your PC has. Diablo 3 is probably in an early build still, who knows. The environments might not look amazing in graphical detail, but the gore, physics, and player/creature animations are pretty good, which is probably more important considering it's a hack n slash. Hack n Slashes don't always have the most detailed environments, in fact, most Hack N Slashes have really bland environments, so Diablo 3 looks great when compared to others. Titan Quest did pretty good though as far as night/day cycle with detailed environments goes. Titan Quest had no randomization at all though except item drops.
Diablo 3 might not have graphically superior environments, but it has detail alright, plus the ability to interact with the environment is a first, for example, knocking a large stone slab off of a cliff and killing several hostiles.
1. no
2. no
3. Yes, it prevents us from making builds like the Melee "wizard" among others...
4. Yes, I think buffing skills should be on the side while I can use any skill in the tree without having to put any amount of points into poo skills...
5. 100% but it's most likely the people who have played the game form the start that agree....
2) I love the new inventory, thers nothing about D2 invetory I'd like to see in D3.
3) Automatic stat hmm.. yea it might be tough one to digest but if they work it out nicely to the game it doesn't bother me. In Baldurs Gate you don't get to put any stats after you have created your character and it doesn't feel any bad.
4) D2 skill system sucks, no matter what they do with D3, it will probably be a lot better. They were talking about having 6 active skills and bunch of passive, sounds great.
5) Hm yea respec doesn't sound too good, only if the skill trees allow a huge variety of different kind of builds, it might be nice so that you don't need to create 20 wizards.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
At some point, the consumer is responsible for keeping up with current technology. If we followed your logic, developers would still be designing with the Commodore 64's specs.
I want an inventory where the amount carried is felt. D2 was better because you didn't have the rediculous option of carrying twenty suits of armor alongside thirty different weapons.
Baldur's Gate is based on an entirely different system. Plus, D&D's natural evolution has gone from a static attribute system to one where you DO increase it as you level, subject to play balance. To go from more customization to less is bass ackwards.
I thought it was fine given the scope of the game. Having all those different skills, while of course giving rise to "cookie-cutter" builds, also allowed for experimentation and creativity. The addition of synergies in LoD further refined the concept. It was MORE choice and customization.
For D3 to have FEWER skills radically alters the gameplay experience. Having 6 or 9 fully fleshed out skills as your only choices IMHO is worse than having 30 skills that you can mix and match, especially given the improvements LoD brought. D3 should have MORE than 30 skills per character with the skill system they're putting in place.
I'm on the fence about re-speccing. Its not very RPish, but allows for less downtime as you learn the game and character class. I hope re-speccing isn't one of the "monetized features" though, because that's a shitty way to backdoor noobs.
You're right, I suppose there's nothing really that could be considered taken from Diablo in WoW. Blizzard doesn't make little throwbacks to it's previous titles unrelated in it's games.
According to your logic, WoW is based upon Army of Darkness.
http://www.wowhead.com/?search=boomstick
There's a difference between making an homage to a former title, and basing the development of the new title upon another.
Personally I would have preferred they try to make D3 more like D1 and D2, rather than WoW, but that's just me I guess.
Lol, I said Wow is Based upon Diablo? I just pointed to something related in it. Apart from skills being called talents and having "ranks" I don't really see how it's turned into WoW, Having played the previous Diablos and many hours of WoW I can safely say that D3 looks like it's own entity and I'm very glad that we aren't seeing a blatant rehash for the gameplay elements.
Just a few names and references, that can be said for any blizzard title. The gameplay looks all original and Diabloish to me
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Just for your consideration, look at the first couple of posts here:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15288
And tell me that the descriptions and such don't INSTANTLY remind you of WoW. Or that magic in Sanctuary has gone from Elemental to including Conjures and Arcane.
I'm honestly not bothered by it, Blizzard can do whatever they want, I'm just voicing my opinion so that hopefully, all aspects of a situation are examined. I'll never understand why forums always polarize into people criticizing and people defending, the defenders always seem to have a personal stake in the game development, while the criticizers always seem to want to just tear down.
As a fence sitter, I'll wait and see, while at the same time try to add in constructive criticism which hopefully is taken in good humour.
This is a poor decision on their part. More customizability is always better, as it allows more variety in builds, as long as you give reasons for the stats. It makes it so every Barbarian isn't the same as each other (if done right) and gives more opportunity to play with skills (like a warcry barb and such).
Removing the stat altering makes it feel less like Diablo and with respeccing, there is now no need to ever play the game again with another Barb once it's been beaten. Losing replayability is a bad business decision on their part.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763