Obviously in D2 there was no skill point reassignment. Later on GW was released which focused a lot on reassignment. Although reassignment sounds kinds of good on paper, I personally found it to be a total flop. Firstly, characters do not develop any consistent personality ... each character just becomes a malleable piece of clay that can be converted into anything else at a whim. It completely kills the sense of building a character with a plan and a purpose.
Secondly, it kills the replayability of the game. If you are locked into your choices, then most people end up re-playing the game choosing different skill paths to get a different feel...its fun...and it takes a while and a few chars to figure out whats best for you. In GW, theres no reason to create multiple chars or replay the game.
Thirdly, it rewards players who go the extra mile of doing a lot of research to pick good skills as opposed to not thinking at all about their character design until they are level 70 and have just fallen into a "rut" by chance. Not that theres anything wrong with those players, but, they shouldnt just be able to "fix" all their mistakes that someone else spent a lot of time planning out carefully in advance.
I had a fourth point but I forgot it
Anyway, since they are probably changing this system around a bit, I just want to pre-emptively state my opinion that skill point reassignment should not be in D3, at least not without major costs. It might be interesting if there was a SMALL amount of reassignment that was possible and considered a luxury. For example, a quest reward could be "5 reassignment points" that allowed you to re-allocate 5 of your state points, or "1 skill reassignent point," correspondingly. Also, perhaps re-allocation points could be purchased for extremely hefty sums of money. This could help bring back value to gold for trading, also. Anyway, whatever happens, reassignment should not come easily.
I've seen this a thousand times, and from what I can tell, the reassigning system in GW isn't a good one. Doesn't mean reassigning is bad, just means it could be good.
I think WoW has a good system, although slightly flawed for WoW specifically at this time. 1g to respec first time, then it gets progressively more expensive as you go on.
Why not something similar in D3? One free respec, so that if you screw up, you can reallocate your skills later on in the game instead of playing through the game again. Then you could have quests for further skill customization.
It's an idea. I'm for respeccing no matter how they implement it, so long as it will mean that a full respec is possible.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
gooood topic.
I like your idea of making it cost a lot of gold to bring back trade through gold instead of runes..
In WoW respeccing is pretty good but then you have the people with just one good character and three different types of gear and they respec every other day.
That's why I like the quest idea more, but I think that the quest should be repeatable (only about five times), but get progressively more difficult..
I agree with mahamoti, I don't really like respeccing for Diablo. But it was stated that it will be in the game, so it should be very limited (like one time) to keep character identity and careful character building as a big part of the game.
NO respecing... Point 1: it ruins the careful building. If you can respec for a price that ruins my first point. GW made the game boring, without replayability,etc. it could improved upon but,... it doesn't suit Diablo.
Bottom line:
You gotta think very well before investing a very precious skill pt into a skill.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Diablo Series is one of the only games with such a crazy fanbase and no game can top that!
Why is that? I think their attribute system fits well for their niche game. Either way, you will always have people looking at guides to see which builds are the most viable in the metagame.
- Transfer gear
- Delete old character and make a new one with the same name
- Rush your new char to level 85 in one day
- Transfer the gear back
Unlimited free respecs. If D3 won't let you build your characters in one day, then it's only natural that there is a mechanic that allows you to do it occasionally. Basically, in D3 it will probably be more restrictive compared to D2.
See the thing that was so good about Diablo 2 was that it didn't take long at all to level up, so restarting your character wasn't a big problem at all.
But in Diablo 3, I do expect that the leveling process will take longer (hopefully much longer) and restarting won't be as easy.
I do like the quest reward for respeccing a lot. Or maybe reward a one-time respec once you hit half the maximum level so that you can fix any mistakes you made for the first 50 levels, but then it forces you to be careful for the next 49 :).
Quote from "Dimebog" »
Here is how it worked in Diablo 2:
- Transfer gear
- Delete old character and make a new one with the same name
- Rush your new char to level 85 in one day
- Transfer the gear back
Unlimited free respecs. If D3 won't let you build your characters in one day, then it's only natural that there is a mechanic that allows you to do it occasionally. Basically, in D3 it will probably be more restrictive compared to D2.
Obviously in D2 there was no skill point reassignment. Later on GW was released which focused a lot on reassignment. Although reassignment sounds kinds of good on paper, I personally found it to be a total flop. Firstly, characters do not develop any consistent personality ... each character just becomes a malleable piece of clay that can be converted into anything else at a whim. It completely kills the sense of building a character with a plan and a purpose.
Secondly, it kills the replayability of the game. If you are locked into your choices, then most people end up re-playing the game choosing different skill paths to get a different feel...its fun...and it takes a while and a few chars to figure out whats best for you. In GW, theres no reason to create multiple chars or replay the game.
Thirdly, it rewards players who go the extra mile of doing a lot of research to pick good skills as opposed to not thinking at all about their character design until they are level 70 and have just fallen into a "rut" by chance. Not that theres anything wrong with those players, but, they shouldnt just be able to "fix" all their mistakes that someone else spent a lot of time planning out carefully in advance.
I had a fourth point but I forgot it
Anyway, since they are probably changing this system around a bit, I just want to pre-emptively state my opinion that skill point reassignment should not be in D3, at least not without major costs. It might be interesting if there was a SMALL amount of reassignment that was possible and considered a luxury. For example, a quest reward could be "5 reassignment points" that allowed you to re-allocate 5 of your state points, or "1 skill reassignent point," correspondingly. Also, perhaps re-allocation points could be purchased for extremely hefty sums of money. This could help bring back value to gold for trading, also. Anyway, whatever happens, reassignment should not come easily.
Excellent points (except the fourth one..:))!! I totally agree with what you suggest about the gold but should also include the ability to purchase any item in the game. Rares would cost bookoo bucks of course.
Do you ever UNLEARN something ... - i doubt so .
So keep - normal human way of developing characters.
Characters are not a robots to load and unload knowledge inside them - they are humans , and humans have not a natural way of unlearning skills. ( except forgetting - which is not really applicable in the case ).
So - keeping creating better characters from the scratch again is the best way keeping fun going and going in the years.
Else - battle net will have about 5000 players - each knowing all others telephone numbers, drinking beer in Friday afternoon
- Best report on situation : - Me : Sonicpld
I don't agree with being able to respec on a whim, but I also don't agree with your arguments against being able to respec.
If you are to take the 'realism' argument, then how come every character has a clear-cut line in the sand on how much they can learn? The human brain doesn't behave in such a clear-cut manner. No person, ever, has hit their knowledge limit.
So if you want an explanation for this knowledge limit, you have to conclude that skills aren't just learned by their brains, it is some sort of magical limit. Just like mana is magical limit on how much spells can be cast, there is a limit on how many spells can be learned. It makes sense in the confines of normal rpg character building, not in the confines of earth and humans as you know them. Just please stop trying to bring "is it realistic" arguments into this, that doesn't matter at all if it is fun (which I believe is the intended effect of games). I'm not a huge fan of flight simulators, life simulators (The Sims), or any simulator but I am a fan of diablo (it's not a simulator).
Uh, my point is this, show me a 99 year old man (level 99) whose mind has "filled up". They are certainly less likely to want to learn and mental sharpness decreases, but if he has become a master of carpentry (kind of like fire mastered sorceress) he could surely learn the basics of how to sew on a button (learn level 1 of a skill). Diablo doesn't take into account alzheimers or decreased mental sharpness of older people so I'm not taking that into account in my example either.
Why is that? I think their attribute system fits well for their niche game. Either way, you will always have people looking at guides to see which builds are the most viable in the metagame.
This was most in relation to a possible system in D3. Personally I'd like to be able to respec anytime, and I do when I play D2, but it's not the most balanced system.
Blizzard seems to be moving towards a more streamlined gaming experience by changing and/or removing bad features from D2 that simply didn't function well for the game as a whole. I think the skill assigning system is in need of at least an upgrade if not a complete overhaul.
Starting a new character just because you placed a few points in the wrong skill doesn't sound fun to me at all. Replayability can be stimulated in other ways than simply creating new builds.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Secondly, it kills the replayability of the game. If you are locked into your choices, then most people end up re-playing the game choosing different skill paths to get a different feel...its fun...and it takes a while and a few chars to figure out whats best for you. In GW, theres no reason to create multiple chars or replay the game.
Thirdly, it rewards players who go the extra mile of doing a lot of research to pick good skills as opposed to not thinking at all about their character design until they are level 70 and have just fallen into a "rut" by chance. Not that theres anything wrong with those players, but, they shouldnt just be able to "fix" all their mistakes that someone else spent a lot of time planning out carefully in advance.
I had a fourth point but I forgot it
Anyway, since they are probably changing this system around a bit, I just want to pre-emptively state my opinion that skill point reassignment should not be in D3, at least not without major costs. It might be interesting if there was a SMALL amount of reassignment that was possible and considered a luxury. For example, a quest reward could be "5 reassignment points" that allowed you to re-allocate 5 of your state points, or "1 skill reassignent point," correspondingly. Also, perhaps re-allocation points could be purchased for extremely hefty sums of money. This could help bring back value to gold for trading, also. Anyway, whatever happens, reassignment should not come easily.
I think WoW has a good system, although slightly flawed for WoW specifically at this time. 1g to respec first time, then it gets progressively more expensive as you go on.
Why not something similar in D3? One free respec, so that if you screw up, you can reallocate your skills later on in the game instead of playing through the game again. Then you could have quests for further skill customization.
It's an idea. I'm for respeccing no matter how they implement it, so long as it will mean that a full respec is possible.
I like your idea of making it cost a lot of gold to bring back trade through gold instead of runes..
In WoW respeccing is pretty good but then you have the people with just one good character and three different types of gear and they respec every other day.
That's why I like the quest idea more, but I think that the quest should be repeatable (only about five times), but get progressively more difficult..
Bottom line:
You gotta think very well before investing a very precious skill pt into a skill.
- Transfer gear
- Delete old character and make a new one with the same name
- Rush your new char to level 85 in one day
- Transfer the gear back
Unlimited free respecs. If D3 won't let you build your characters in one day, then it's only natural that there is a mechanic that allows you to do it occasionally. Basically, in D3 it will probably be more restrictive compared to D2.
But in Diablo 3, I do expect that the leveling process will take longer (hopefully much longer) and restarting won't be as easy.
I do like the quest reward for respeccing a lot. Or maybe reward a one-time respec once you hit half the maximum level so that you can fix any mistakes you made for the first 50 levels, but then it forces you to be careful for the next 49 :).
Yeah, a very good point.
Now I don't want a re-spec at all :).
Excellent points (except the fourth one..:))!! I totally agree with what you suggest about the gold but should also include the ability to purchase any item in the game. Rares would cost bookoo bucks of course.
Do you think they will have free skill point quest rewards again like izzy, den of evil and radament?
I don't agree with being able to respec on a whim, but I also don't agree with your arguments against being able to respec.
If you are to take the 'realism' argument, then how come every character has a clear-cut line in the sand on how much they can learn? The human brain doesn't behave in such a clear-cut manner. No person, ever, has hit their knowledge limit.
So if you want an explanation for this knowledge limit, you have to conclude that skills aren't just learned by their brains, it is some sort of magical limit. Just like mana is magical limit on how much spells can be cast, there is a limit on how many spells can be learned. It makes sense in the confines of normal rpg character building, not in the confines of earth and humans as you know them. Just please stop trying to bring "is it realistic" arguments into this, that doesn't matter at all if it is fun (which I believe is the intended effect of games). I'm not a huge fan of flight simulators, life simulators (The Sims), or any simulator but I am a fan of diablo (it's not a simulator).
Blizzard seems to be moving towards a more streamlined gaming experience by changing and/or removing bad features from D2 that simply didn't function well for the game as a whole. I think the skill assigning system is in need of at least an upgrade if not a complete overhaul.
Starting a new character just because you placed a few points in the wrong skill doesn't sound fun to me at all. Replayability can be stimulated in other ways than simply creating new builds.
Potion of retardation: Drains an XP level, down to 99% of the previous level
It is rather rare to find.
Quest of XYZ
A quest that can be done once in Normal, NM & Hell. Completion has the same effects as the potion above.
There. Two plausible solutions for an ingame respec.