My main question here is "How does all of this new game play strategery affect the way that characters are to be designed?" Based on what we have seen so far it seems as though the character designing system will have to be fundamentally different.
D3 previews have shown that certain obstacles or monsters require that you have specific types of skills to overcome them (jumping the fallen bridge, stunning the shield skeletons etc). Well, what if I don't want to pick those skills, or I don't even use that skill tree (assuming they still exist). So then what? Do I just get stuck or are these skill mandatory. This issue could be handled several different ways:
1. You don't get to chose which skills you take next (boring).
2. There are other ways around certain obstacles, alternate routes and such for those without the skills.
3. You have to take certain skills or you risk getting "stuck" at certain points (unlikely)
4. All skill specific obstacles can be ignored (then what's the point in adding any strategy)
5. These necessary skills are inherent in each class (or item based) and don't need to be chosen.
6. Each possible character design route has the necessary skills needed to overcome specific obstacles so you can't make a potentilly bad decision.
Personally I'm in favor of option 6, although this seems to be a lot of work as each class would have to have several ways of dealing with a single obstacle, so it seems unlikely that it would be handled this way.
Perhaps there's an obvious solution I missed, but I think it's safe to say it must be different that D2 to incorporate the more advanced strategy effectively.
Well I dont think they should make the build so you can't make a bad choice... that was the learning curve in the begginning of D2...so you had to play a few times to figure out what are the best skill combos.
I dont think that they will make any crucial roadblocks that will stop the game if you dont have a specific skill.... they could have roadblocks for optional quests to make them special for a certain item or skill that compliments the skill needed to reach it...
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I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
D3 previews have shown that certain obstacles or monsters require that you have specific types of skills to overcome them (jumping the fallen bridge, stunning the shield skeletons etc). Well, what if I don't want to pick those skills, or I don't even use that skill tree (assuming they still exist). So then what? Do I just get stuck or are these skill mandatory. This issue could be handled several different ways:
I assume you are talking about the game play video that shows the Barbarian jumping over the broken bridge. What you probably missed is the fact that Blizzard has already stated that the game play trailer was specifically created just to show stuff like that for that character. It does not mean there WILL be a broken bridge like in the game that only the Barbarian can cross because he has the jump ability.
Either every class will have an ability that allows them to bypass things like this OR Blizz will put in alternate routes so that every class can get to the next part of the game. The ability to jump across the bridge just adds another element to the game that makes it unique.
So Asynchronic, options 2 and 6 are the only ones that would be considered at all imo, and option 2 is more likely to happen than option 6.
Quote from "Asynchronic" »
1. You don't get to chose which skills you take next (boring).
2. There are other ways around certain obstacles, alternate routes and such for those without the skills.
3. You have to take certain skills or you risk getting "stuck" at certain points (unlikely)
4. All skill specific obstacles can be ignored (then what's the point in adding any strategy)
5. These necessary skills are inherent in each class (or item based) and don't need to be chosen.
6. Each possible character design route has the necessary skills needed to overcome specific obstacles so you can't make a potentilly bad decision.
If they make the skill respecing something that can be done whenever you want to and infinitely (like the eastern sun mod for Diablo II) it would solve all the problems OP but that would kill the game at the same time imo and kill replayability.
Anyways I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and trust Blizzard on this one.
on the bridge with the stunning skeles he whirlwinded through the last few and for the wd it wont be hard throw a pet to tdistract from front and then throw a firebomb in back because the back isnt protected by a shield or summon a pet and explode it in front of a couple of monsters and for the bridge they said that was just a demo specifically made to show off the barbs abilities...(dunno where he said it but i remember he did in an interview...btw he = jay wilson) or if he lied and it is a real dungeon you most likely have another way like a staircase that will take you around that part and back onto the main road
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I assume you are talking about the game play video that shows the Barbarian jumping over the broken bridge. What you probably missed is the fact that Blizzard has already stated that the game play trailer was specifically created just to show stuff like that for that character. It does not mean there WILL be a broken bridge like in the game that only the Barbarian can cross because he has the jump ability.
Either every class will have an ability that allows them to bypass things like this OR Blizz will put in alternate routes so that every class can get to the next part of the game. The ability to jump across the bridge just adds another element to the game that makes it unique.
So Asynchronic, options 2 and 6 are the only ones that would be considered at all imo, and option 2 is more likely to happen than option 6.
I realize that they were just using the broken bridge as an example and I was too (Since all I really have to go on as far as strategy is in the game play video). I am just hoping that by not picking certain skills the game will not be made impossibly difficult and that there are reasonable work arounds for all strategic situations.
I realize that they were just using the broken bridge as an example and I was too (Since all I really have to go on as far as strategy is in the game play video). I am just hoping that by not picking certain skills the game will not be made impossibly difficult and that there are reasonable work arounds for all strategic situations.
I agree, and I do not think Blizzard will create a game where they force people to get a special skill in order to complete the game. However, I do expect there to be some skills that are so god aweful that it will 'force', if you think of it like that, to go certain routes within the skill trees. It would be great if that doesn't happen, but I am not going to rule out the possibility of 1 or 2 skills per character being total garbage.
no, Blizzard definitely wont force players to use certain talents.
Unless of course the skill system moves more towards the direction of WoW (that i find quite interesting and well made to be honest). Standard abilities on each level and skill points added so that we decide which ones go stronger. Of course having to put more points to each line to get to the extremely good stuff.
i dont think thats the case, though, because from the skills i saw there were already levels on those (like whirlwind 1/10 or something).
on the gameplay video they simply showed us the possibilities of the game with the technic they developed (which is supposed to be complete now - meaning they only have to make the content and balance the game to release it!)
My main question here is "How does all of this new game play strategery affect the way that characters are to be designed?" Based on what we have seen so far it seems as though the character designing system will have to be fundamentally different.
D3 previews have shown that certain obstacles or monsters require that you have specific types of skills to overcome them (jumping the fallen bridge, stunning the shield skeletons etc). Well, what if I don't want to pick those skills, or I don't even use that skill tree (assuming they still exist). So then what? Do I just get stuck or are these skill mandatory. This issue could be handled several different ways:
1. You don't get to chose which skills you take next (boring).
2. There are other ways around certain obstacles, alternate routes and such for those without the skills.
3. You have to take certain skills or you risk getting "stuck" at certain points (unlikely)
4. All skill specific obstacles can be ignored (then what's the point in adding any strategy)
5. These necessary skills are inherent in each class (or item based) and don't need to be chosen.
6. Each possible character design route has the necessary skills needed to overcome specific obstacles so you can't make a potentilly bad decision.
Personally I'm in favor of option 6, although this seems to be a lot of work as each class would have to have several ways of dealing with a single obstacle, so it seems unlikely that it would be handled this way.
Perhaps there's an obvious solution I missed, but I think it's safe to say it must be different that D2 to incorporate the more advanced strategy effectively.
Blizzard directly said the bridge obstacle was written in ONLY for the demo as an example of what the barb can do and that there will not be any impassable areas like that in the actual game.
We definitely don't know enough on this topic at this point to be able to judge it. Let's say you need a specific skill, well maybe a class specific item that gives you + to that skill will be all that you need. Plus if the mercs are going to more elaborated then maybe you can use one to counter the weaknesses of your build.
It's hard to wait, but we really need more info on what they're planning for the new skill system.
ok that dungeon was a test dungeon... think back to d2... in act 3... if u were a barb or a sorc u could leap/tele over the rivers while the other kids in your party had to walk around adn find the bridges across them... thats prolly most likely what would happen... they were prolly using that situation just to show how the barbarian works and some strengths of his old attacks like leapattack or w/e they were using
thats exactly what they're trying to avoid (as they said). Especially sorceresses but barbs aswell because of their leap attacks gained an unfair advantage against the other classes when it came to quickly finding bosses, waypoints etc. In Diablo 3 they want everyone to have the same chances.
We definitely don't know enough on this topic at this point to be able to judge it. Let's say you need a specific skill, well maybe a class specific item that gives you + to that skill will be all that you need. Plus if the mercs are going to more elaborated then maybe you can use one to counter the weaknesses of your build.
It's hard to wait, but we really need more info on what they're planning for the new skill system.
I agree we do not know enough about this topic and I do believe Blizzard will do the right thing. I know you are just giving an example with the whole class specific item with a + skill on it, but I do not care for this idea of having to wear an item that I do not want in the first place. Having to wear this item just so I can get further along in the game because it has a much needed +1 skill point to a skill I do not want either does not make for a good game.
I hopethey design the character with a system different from the skill tree but i doubt that theyll make a system where u have to have certian skills to continue the game
i think skills will be allocated similar to WOW. As in all classes will get x amount of skills through trainers/quests while the skill tree will allow for more individuality and maybe an extra skill or two
i think skills will be allocated similar to WOW. As in all classes will get x amount of skills through trainers/quests while the skill tree will allow for more individuality and maybe an extra skill or two
I hope its not fucken like that that would be hella gay it would make things all the more difficult to do.
I hope they make it similar to WoW and add synergies to it.
Synergies are a must in my opinion, especially if the skill trees are modeled after D2 skill trees in that you only gain abilities through skill points.
If the skill trees are WoW based I will be very upset. I feel the Diablo skill trees are much more customizable. In WoW if you want to get to the good talents you have to spend your points in 1 tree with no chance of getting some pretty good skill in another tree. This is fine, there should be pre-reqs to the better abilities, but in D2 there was something else that gave the character to chance to be more unique. In D2 there were some skills in the trees that you could put points into when you reached a certain level, unlike WoW where you need to have all the pre-requisite abilites and a certain number of points invested into the tree just to get to skills.
D2 skill trees worked great when they added synergies, there were even a couple things that can be improved upon. The WoW talent trees are very different from D2 and I do not think they fit the Diablo way.
Synergies are a must in my opinion, especially if the skill trees are modeled after D2 skill trees in that you only gain abilities through skill points.
Synergies wasn't needed at all before 1.10..They made the game a lot worse imo.
I just hope they frikin trash the whole D2 skill system and make up a totally new one, since in D2 the skill system has never really worked well.
D2 skill trees worked great when they added synergies, there were even a couple things that can be improved upon.
What you mean? Making a few spells totally overpowered when others are just piece of crap. Also putting points to useless firebolt or icebolt isn't very nice when you aren't using them at all.
D3 previews have shown that certain obstacles or monsters require that you have specific types of skills to overcome them (jumping the fallen bridge, stunning the shield skeletons etc). Well, what if I don't want to pick those skills, or I don't even use that skill tree (assuming they still exist). So then what? Do I just get stuck or are these skill mandatory. This issue could be handled several different ways:
1. You don't get to chose which skills you take next (boring).
2. There are other ways around certain obstacles, alternate routes and such for those without the skills.
3. You have to take certain skills or you risk getting "stuck" at certain points (unlikely)
4. All skill specific obstacles can be ignored (then what's the point in adding any strategy)
5. These necessary skills are inherent in each class (or item based) and don't need to be chosen.
6. Each possible character design route has the necessary skills needed to overcome specific obstacles so you can't make a potentilly bad decision.
Personally I'm in favor of option 6, although this seems to be a lot of work as each class would have to have several ways of dealing with a single obstacle, so it seems unlikely that it would be handled this way.
Perhaps there's an obvious solution I missed, but I think it's safe to say it must be different that D2 to incorporate the more advanced strategy effectively.
I dont think that they will make any crucial roadblocks that will stop the game if you dont have a specific skill.... they could have roadblocks for optional quests to make them special for a certain item or skill that compliments the skill needed to reach it...
-Albert Einstein
I assume you are talking about the game play video that shows the Barbarian jumping over the broken bridge. What you probably missed is the fact that Blizzard has already stated that the game play trailer was specifically created just to show stuff like that for that character. It does not mean there WILL be a broken bridge like in the game that only the Barbarian can cross because he has the jump ability.
Either every class will have an ability that allows them to bypass things like this OR Blizz will put in alternate routes so that every class can get to the next part of the game. The ability to jump across the bridge just adds another element to the game that makes it unique.
So Asynchronic, options 2 and 6 are the only ones that would be considered at all imo, and option 2 is more likely to happen than option 6.
Anyways I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and trust Blizzard on this one.
I realize that they were just using the broken bridge as an example and I was too (Since all I really have to go on as far as strategy is in the game play video). I am just hoping that by not picking certain skills the game will not be made impossibly difficult and that there are reasonable work arounds for all strategic situations.
I agree, and I do not think Blizzard will create a game where they force people to get a special skill in order to complete the game. However, I do expect there to be some skills that are so god aweful that it will 'force', if you think of it like that, to go certain routes within the skill trees. It would be great if that doesn't happen, but I am not going to rule out the possibility of 1 or 2 skills per character being total garbage.
Unless of course the skill system moves more towards the direction of WoW (that i find quite interesting and well made to be honest). Standard abilities on each level and skill points added so that we decide which ones go stronger. Of course having to put more points to each line to get to the extremely good stuff.
i dont think thats the case, though, because from the skills i saw there were already levels on those (like whirlwind 1/10 or something).
on the gameplay video they simply showed us the possibilities of the game with the technic they developed (which is supposed to be complete now - meaning they only have to make the content and balance the game to release it!)
Blizzard directly said the bridge obstacle was written in ONLY for the demo as an example of what the barb can do and that there will not be any impassable areas like that in the actual game.
It's hard to wait, but we really need more info on what they're planning for the new skill system.
gamma11 > east
I agree we do not know enough about this topic and I do believe Blizzard will do the right thing. I know you are just giving an example with the whole class specific item with a + skill on it, but I do not care for this idea of having to wear an item that I do not want in the first place. Having to wear this item just so I can get further along in the game because it has a much needed +1 skill point to a skill I do not want either does not make for a good game.
I hope its not fucken like that that would be hella gay it would make things all the more difficult to do.
Synergies are a must in my opinion, especially if the skill trees are modeled after D2 skill trees in that you only gain abilities through skill points.
If the skill trees are WoW based I will be very upset. I feel the Diablo skill trees are much more customizable. In WoW if you want to get to the good talents you have to spend your points in 1 tree with no chance of getting some pretty good skill in another tree. This is fine, there should be pre-reqs to the better abilities, but in D2 there was something else that gave the character to chance to be more unique. In D2 there were some skills in the trees that you could put points into when you reached a certain level, unlike WoW where you need to have all the pre-requisite abilites and a certain number of points invested into the tree just to get to skills.
D2 skill trees worked great when they added synergies, there were even a couple things that can be improved upon. The WoW talent trees are very different from D2 and I do not think they fit the Diablo way.
I just hope they frikin trash the whole D2 skill system and make up a totally new one, since in D2 the skill system has never really worked well.
What you mean? Making a few spells totally overpowered when others are just piece of crap. Also putting points to useless firebolt or icebolt isn't very nice when you aren't using them at all.
synergies sucks ass.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)