I am not saying with 100% certainty it is, but an easy was to prove that Cain is familiy name is to disprove it as a title.
I suppose you could argue that "Cain" is not a title because of Tal Rasha who was considered the strongest of the Horadrum. I'm not sure if he was in fact their leader, but you could argue that because he is not Tal Rasha "Cain" then it is not a title. Common sense dictates that "Cain" is nothing more than a last name just as "Rasha" is Tal's last name and it is assumed that Deckard is a decendent of Jered due to the relationship of them both being Horadrum and both having the same last name. Granted there is absolutely zero evidence supporting any of this, nor can any evidence be found. Also there is no evidence to the contrary so this is all meaningless. This falls under the banner of "Lets ask Blizzard" though I have a feeling if we ask, they'll probably look at us and say "What are you some kind of stupid? Of course Deckard is his decendent! Thats why they have the same last name you know..."
But what we do know is they are NOT the same person. That much we know for certain
Tal Rasha's name is Tal Rasha. Tal is not his first name. Otherwise you could say the same thing about Bul Kathos. His name is Bul Kathos not Bul. Just because he has two parts to his name does not automatically make it first and names.
Many societies and cultures in Sanctuary as well as Earth give people names with two parts, yet neither one is last name. Both parts make up a full singular name.
Though generally this is done by using either ' or - Qual-Kehk Gul'dan. Or there are 3 parts to the name. Ahmed Ibn Falan. While Ibn means son of, thus Ahmed son of Falan, his name is always given as Ahmed Ibn Falan.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I was initially concerned when I saw the numbering in the time line but as soon as I saw "Jered" I knew that Blizzard had found a way around the problem.
Until I see evidence of a major change in cannon I'll accept that Jered and Deckard are not the same.
They might be related, perhaps not but my hunch is that they are.
Apart from that there is nothing to lose sleep over. No problem so far for me at least.
-----------------------
The real problem for me with the time line is that it stops at the end of DII. Damn it!
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So we've got over the problem of colour in D3. Great. Now let's argue about everything else not yet set in stone and help make this game simply great! Game on.
On the Horadrim:
-There is no evidence stating that Deckard Cain was ever actually a member of the Horadric Order. The majority of his beliefs to being the 'last' of the Horadrim was due to his mother's tales.
-Marius, the man who acted as a companion to The Wanderer in Diablo 2, was stated by Blizzard to have been an actual former member of the Horadrim.
-Deckard Cain's journal puts an aura of mystery around Adria via bringing up that she knew even more than he did on matters arcane, and brought up that she was able to procure rather unique artifacts. It might be hinting that Adria may've been a member of the standing Horadric Order.
He could be the children of horadrim who have died.
Would that still make him a horadrim? If the horadrim disbanded before his birth then he must have become horadrim by association. It doesn't sound right.
Depends on how Horadrim or rather mage society in general works. As the son of your father who is a member, you can also be called a member, you know kind of like a clan. Although technically the Horadrim is an alliance of many clans.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Depends on how Horadrim or rather mage society in general works. As the son of your father who is a member, you can also be called a member, you know kind of like a clan. Although technically the Horadrim is an alliance of many clans.
since its an alliance of many Clans I'd imagine that people wheren't born a Horadrim but rather passed certain criteria to be called Horadrim. After all they where charged with taking care of the prime evils, I don't think they'd let anyone just join.
But after they disbanded, wouldn't it make sense that the members returned to their original clans (I know some of these clans still exist in sanctuary). So how did their bloodlines just vanish?
where they so scarred from the journey that they didn't want anything to do with humanly pleasures anymore?
where they some how affected by the battle (cursed or something) so that they couldn't have kids even if they tried?
but that would mean Jared (if indeed he is Dekard's great great grandfather) had impregnated a woman before he went on his journey.
:confused: this is so complex and useless to the storyline that I doubt even Blizzard has any real info on Dekard's ancestors yet and why the Horadrim clan just died out.
Unless of course it was as some one previously mentioned, and Dekard was born before they Disbanded.
Tal Rasha's name is Tal Rasha. Tal is not his first name. Otherwise you could say the same thing about Bul Kathos. His name is Bul Kathos not Bul. Just because he has two parts to his name does not automatically make it first and names.
Many societies and cultures in Sanctuary as well as Earth give people names with two parts, yet neither one is last name. Both parts make up a full singular name.
Though generally this is done by using either ' or - Qual-Kehk Gul'dan. Or there are 3 parts to the name. Ahmed Ibn Falan. While Ibn means son of, thus Ahmed son of Falan, his name is always given as Ahmed Ibn Falan.
here I'll pull the same bs you just pulled with the "Cain" thing. Proof? Does it say anywhere directly that "Tal Rasha" is a single name?
In the English language a space indicates no relationship between the two words. A hyphen, apostrophe, as well as other characters denote a relationship between the two words. You can't say Billy Bob Jimmy Joe is anything other than "First name, middle name, second middle name, last name" unless there are hyphens like Billy-Bob Jimmy-Joe where "Billy-Bob" is now a first name and "Jimmy-Joe" is a last name which is often in southern culture, the Father's last name and the Mother's last name put together and the "Billy-Bob" being the combined First and Middle name but it is treated as a single first name.
The culture of Sanctuary may have combined names like that like Uldussian Ul'Domed (I misspelled it) but Blizzard still governs it all by the rules of the English Language. What gets confusing is when people say the full names all the time as like we do when we refer to "George W. Bush." If you do not personally know the man, you call him George Bush. If you are so misfortuned as to know him personally, you would call him "George." And if you are refferring of him to someone, you use his full name "George Bush" so then the individual knows you're talking about the President and not "George from down the street."
as far as "is Tal Rasha's name really Tal and then Rasha" no one knows, no one is really going to know and honestly, no one probably cares.
Well soooorrryyyy for not reading the Journal all the way. My computer is screwed up, and I don't like trying to do stuff on the blizzard site because it requires a computer that isn't screwed up.
But anyway, if that's his ancestor, than I guess there is no telling how old he really is, unless Blizzard actually tell us themselves.
I really thing blizzard is busy enough with making diablo III and fixing bugs. And, im sure they dont care much about his age lol.
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Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...
The lore behind it is just as important and they kinda inter-connect. You can;t just make a game then add lore and such later (talking about gaming aspect not the engine itself), although one probably could make a game with no lore behind it and all but that would just suck. plus if i remember correctly they have different departments doing diff things in the team ie. one department makes the engine, other makes models, other is lore and etc..
Deckard Cain could have adopted the sect of the Horadrim just like how people in our world change religion. that might explain why he is unsure about curtain things. He could have took the name Cain to show respect to the man who caught Diablo.
Any thoughts about this suggestion
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My life is like a dragon, first praised, then hated, now lost.
3. It seems to me that Jered Cain and Tal Rasha had about the same position within the Horadrim, maybe Tal Rasha a bit more esteemed but still.. Yet no one says "Tal Cain" or "Tal Rasha Cain". And if Rasha and Cain are both titles, one can only wonder why they're not the same language.
I never said a title had to be applied to the top ranking person or even near the top. Titles can be job or task specific, and thus applied across the board of a society or organisation or peoples.
A title like Cain could applied or have a specific meaning for the role that Jered and Deckard have within the Horadrim.
The name Thatcher comes from a man who thatches roofs. The Last name Miller comes from someone who works in a Mill. And over time became a family name, but originally it was a title or job.
But chance are equally if not more likely that Cain is a family name, I never actually said it wasn't.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Hey.. If Cain is the last Horadrim, why doesn't he make a baby with a amazon :O. He should be mass producing his kind, he doesn't have much time left n he must know it!
Cain would have the same sort of problem as McCain would having sex with the VP.
It would take a miracle to not die in the process, let alone have a child.
Yea, I don't think that Deckard Cain is over 350 years old.
no you're right he isn't and this was a thread I started when it was around 4 am my time. I was dead tired and... w/e it doesnt even matter.
This discussion eventually turned to talks about the Horadrim and speculations about how they work, and whether or not Deckard is Jared's ancestor.
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I suppose you could argue that "Cain" is not a title because of Tal Rasha who was considered the strongest of the Horadrum. I'm not sure if he was in fact their leader, but you could argue that because he is not Tal Rasha "Cain" then it is not a title. Common sense dictates that "Cain" is nothing more than a last name just as "Rasha" is Tal's last name and it is assumed that Deckard is a decendent of Jered due to the relationship of them both being Horadrum and both having the same last name. Granted there is absolutely zero evidence supporting any of this, nor can any evidence be found. Also there is no evidence to the contrary so this is all meaningless. This falls under the banner of "Lets ask Blizzard" though I have a feeling if we ask, they'll probably look at us and say "What are you some kind of stupid? Of course Deckard is his decendent! Thats why they have the same last name you know..."
But what we do know is they are NOT the same person. That much we know for certain
Many societies and cultures in Sanctuary as well as Earth give people names with two parts, yet neither one is last name. Both parts make up a full singular name.
Though generally this is done by using either ' or - Qual-Kehk Gul'dan. Or there are 3 parts to the name. Ahmed Ibn Falan. While Ibn means son of, thus Ahmed son of Falan, his name is always given as Ahmed Ibn Falan.
Until I see evidence of a major change in cannon I'll accept that Jered and Deckard are not the same.
They might be related, perhaps not but my hunch is that they are.
Apart from that there is nothing to lose sleep over. No problem so far for me at least.
-----------------------
The real problem for me with the time line is that it stops at the end of DII. Damn it!
-There is no evidence stating that Deckard Cain was ever actually a member of the Horadric Order. The majority of his beliefs to being the 'last' of the Horadrim was due to his mother's tales.
-Marius, the man who acted as a companion to The Wanderer in Diablo 2, was stated by Blizzard to have been an actual former member of the Horadrim.
-Deckard Cain's journal puts an aura of mystery around Adria via bringing up that she knew even more than he did on matters arcane, and brought up that she was able to procure rather unique artifacts. It might be hinting that Adria may've been a member of the standing Horadric Order.
or does this mean that he's the last living member?? :confused:
source: http://www.blizzplanet.com/content/499/
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
But after they disbanded, wouldn't it make sense that the members returned to their original clans (I know some of these clans still exist in sanctuary). So how did their bloodlines just vanish?
where they so scarred from the journey that they didn't want anything to do with humanly pleasures anymore?
where they some how affected by the battle (cursed or something) so that they couldn't have kids even if they tried?
but that would mean Jared (if indeed he is Dekard's great great grandfather) had impregnated a woman before he went on his journey.
:confused: this is so complex and useless to the storyline that I doubt even Blizzard has any real info on Dekard's ancestors yet and why the Horadrim clan just died out.
Unless of course it was as some one previously mentioned, and Dekard was born before they Disbanded.
here I'll pull the same bs you just pulled with the "Cain" thing. Proof? Does it say anywhere directly that "Tal Rasha" is a single name?
In the English language a space indicates no relationship between the two words. A hyphen, apostrophe, as well as other characters denote a relationship between the two words. You can't say Billy Bob Jimmy Joe is anything other than "First name, middle name, second middle name, last name" unless there are hyphens like Billy-Bob Jimmy-Joe where "Billy-Bob" is now a first name and "Jimmy-Joe" is a last name which is often in southern culture, the Father's last name and the Mother's last name put together and the "Billy-Bob" being the combined First and Middle name but it is treated as a single first name.
The culture of Sanctuary may have combined names like that like Uldussian Ul'Domed (I misspelled it) but Blizzard still governs it all by the rules of the English Language. What gets confusing is when people say the full names all the time as like we do when we refer to "George W. Bush." If you do not personally know the man, you call him George Bush. If you are so misfortuned as to know him personally, you would call him "George." And if you are refferring of him to someone, you use his full name "George Bush" so then the individual knows you're talking about the President and not "George from down the street."
as far as "is Tal Rasha's name really Tal and then Rasha" no one knows, no one is really going to know and honestly, no one probably cares.
I really thing blizzard is busy enough with making diablo III and fixing bugs. And, im sure they dont care much about his age lol.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Any thoughts about this suggestion
please read second insert of the timeline
I never said a title had to be applied to the top ranking person or even near the top. Titles can be job or task specific, and thus applied across the board of a society or organisation or peoples.
A title like Cain could applied or have a specific meaning for the role that Jered and Deckard have within the Horadrim.
The name Thatcher comes from a man who thatches roofs. The Last name Miller comes from someone who works in a Mill. And over time became a family name, but originally it was a title or job.
But chance are equally if not more likely that Cain is a family name, I never actually said it wasn't.
It would take a miracle to not die in the process, let alone have a child.
Besides, that order was disbanded.
Over confidence is the rot.
[/LEFT]
This discussion eventually turned to talks about the Horadrim and speculations about how they work, and whether or not Deckard is Jared's ancestor.