As we already know, Blizzard is attempting to make the combat tactical, that requires a certain degree of thinking.
Lately I've been thinking about how long the would-be challange would hold out. How long until entire fights become completely instinctive (Because it's really hard for me to believe that it wouldn't at some point).
When you've mastered the counter attacks for most of monster-type encounters, you're left with pure mindless H&S. It's hard to convey this through words, but I simply imagine a point where you're like on autopilot. You see a monster, you know the counter. And it becomes second nature, and so the tactical thinking fades into oblivion.
I'm just wondering, is this inevitable? Will this not happen to everyone eventually?
Tell me what you think about this - Because it really bums me out, mostly because it's a core gameplay issue.
Everything becomes like auto-pilot if you do it enough eventually. But would it happen as fast as it happened for me in diablo 2, most likely not even close. Diablo 3 is going to be an entirely new game with as they have said "lots of tactical play". Health orbs and monsters you actually have to use certain abilities against to beat is hugely a PVE gameplay improvement. But if its going to get mindless or boring well, every game does eventually if you play it enough.
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Assuming the same skill-tree system as D2 (Higher level skills are better):
It may be easy to kill the normal difficulty monsters using lower level skills, but we don't know what modifiers monsters will get in the additional difficulties (assuming there are those)
With the increasing variation in skills you can have (in terms of max skill points assigned not always being 20) there will be much more variation in how you can kill a certain group of monsters. There may be some ways that are really effective, but take a while, or otherways that cause you to lose more health, but you do it really quickly.
Everything becomes like auto-pilot if you do it enough eventually. But would it happen as fast as it happened for me in diablo 2, most likely not even close. Diablo 3 is going to be an entirely new game with as they have said "lots of tactical play". Health orbs and monsters you actually have to use certain abilities against to beat is hugely a PVE gameplay improvement. But if its going to get mindless or boring well, every game does eventually if you play it enough.
I don't know how tactical the game is actually going to be. Judging from what we've seen, nothing about that was really interesting. No need to plan ahead. Sure, the first run through is going to be tough, but I don't see how anything after that is going to be much fun.
The first time you encounter an enemy it will be a guessing game. The second time? You know how to beat him and what to look for. I don't see how that's really tactical or exciting. Randomizing encounters only goes so far.
The majority of what we've seen was exactly the same as D2. The barb ran into an area and killed things. The only time he did anything that wasn't something we did from D2 was once... and it doesn't take a genius to realize that some skeletons with shields aren't going to take any/much damage from the front. You also probably saw him whirlwind through the same enemies at another point. What is any different about that? Same skill, same tactic. Same, same, same. The skill completely negated any sort of 'tactic' required to take an enemy out.
Really, they have this entire thing all wrong. Making enemies hit harder and limiting how often you can use skills is the way to make a game difficult. Being able to spam whirlwind through a group of enemies that should take planning isn't something any of us should be chomping at the bits for.
The more I actually think about the game and read what they say, the more I realize that it's not really going to be a challenge and that it's going to be another TQ where I'm going to have to find (or create) a mod that increases the difficulty or numbers of the monsters I'm fighting.
Obviously there will be changes for the better compared to Diablo II.
It's not my point though.
I want people to tell me out of their own expirience whether or not games that claimed to have tactical fighting sessions were still little bit challanging even after much replay.
No game I've ever played has had tactical combat has been hard. Tactical, in the realm of gaming, simply means you have to learn the pattern of your enemy or experiment through trial and error... none of which bring anything fun or interesting to the table.
Once you learn an enemies pattern, that's it, you've won the encounter.
Yeah, I agree completely with DarkRising. I think the game would become far to reminiscent of, say, Phantasy Star- where each slice of a blade is tedious and has to be done carefully and perfectly or you have to start all over. Stuff like that. The reason people play it is for fast, mindless violence, to collect pretty things, to be powerful, and to kill other people. Now, in this installment they're garunteeing those who want to just experience the story will be pleased, but realistically, 99% (yay random percentage that is most likely true but was made upon the spot!) are like how I just described. And there's nothing wrong with that- games are ment to be enjoyed, and if either of thsoe scenarios is what you enjoy, so be it. But realize that they have to accomadate the broad majority, not the refined taste of a select couple hundred people.
Hmm. Have you tried Guild Wars? It basically fixes all the issues I usually have with MMO's.
It has such genious solutions as:
- Immediate travel to a place you've already been once
- No item gathering, instead skill gathering
- Almost the entire game can be played single player by using NPC's that act as players, which have a fairly decent AI and can be directly controlled by yourself when needed
- Very strategical and fun combat system, no boring grind
- Since you can only take 8 skills with you at a time, and there's really hundred of skills to collect, and most skills work differently with each other, there infinite room for lots of different strategies
- Free respeccing, only in town, actually the whole game is built around this: sometimes you *need* to respec and try something different to beat enemies.
- Engaging and fun PvP
- no leveling beyond 20 (which is real easy to get to): game is all about gathering skills, playing the storyline, and thinking up different strategies
I think the game is genious. Gathering skills is so much more fun that gathering items you can hardly ever get. And playing with different setups really breaks the mold of grinding where you always know which buttons to push.
]
Yeah i've. For a pretty long time. I've too say it's the best online RPG with you want to PvP.
But in terms of PvE WoW is better, 'cause all Blizzards dedication goes to Raid Boss Fights. A big part of ppl who hates wow is because never done the game's high end.
I can't believe that a person can hate that game after kill Kael.
For the wow haters, i really believe that D3 boss fights will be pretty much the same, woth some major diferences (no need of a specific classses for tanking, healing, buffing). WoW's Bosses are the game's tryumph. And no doubt WoW is Blizz tryumph so far.
This problem isn't avoidable as far as I can tell. Even when I played WoW I had times that I'd zone out and kill things while grinding or in a raid I knew exactly where to stand and what to do after a while.
Let me just say, varied combat with one character is not what I enjoyed about Diablo 2. I enjoyed varied combat by using different characters. So everytime I go in with my cold sorc, the combat is pretty much the same, but when I make a new character...say maul druid, skelly magi/lower resist necro, zeal pally...the combat was different. For me the fun of the game mostly is character building...trying to make a build work. Once I know it works and how well it works, it gets boring, so time to make a new one.
Let me just say, varied combat with one character is not what I enjoyed about Diablo 2. I enjoyed varied combat by using different characters. So everytime I go in with my cold sorc, the combat is pretty much the same, but when I make a new character...say maul druid, skelly magi/lower resist necro, zeal pally...the combat was different. For me the fun of the game mostly is character building...trying to make a build work. Once I know it works and how well it works, it gets boring, so time to make a new one.
I don't like the to play the game like this. I like to level up a 99, hunt down overpower items and go to pvp. The pvp in D2 was very fun despite the imbalancing. But hunt down items and level up in D2 was terrible because the game was too limited Pass level 60+ until 99 making baal run was boring u.u This is definitly NOT a good online experience. Thats why i say things going to change ALOT.
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"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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Everything becomes like auto-pilot if you do it enough eventually. But would it happen as fast as it happened for me in diablo 2, most likely not even close. Diablo 3 is going to be an entirely new game with as they have said "lots of tactical play". Health orbs and monsters you actually have to use certain abilities against to beat is hugely a PVE gameplay improvement. But if its going to get mindless or boring well, every game does eventually if you play it enough.
It may be easy to kill the normal difficulty monsters using lower level skills, but we don't know what modifiers monsters will get in the additional difficulties (assuming there are those)
With the increasing variation in skills you can have (in terms of max skill points assigned not always being 20) there will be much more variation in how you can kill a certain group of monsters. There may be some ways that are really effective, but take a while, or otherways that cause you to lose more health, but you do it really quickly.
I don't know how tactical the game is actually going to be. Judging from what we've seen, nothing about that was really interesting. No need to plan ahead. Sure, the first run through is going to be tough, but I don't see how anything after that is going to be much fun.
The first time you encounter an enemy it will be a guessing game. The second time? You know how to beat him and what to look for. I don't see how that's really tactical or exciting. Randomizing encounters only goes so far.
The majority of what we've seen was exactly the same as D2. The barb ran into an area and killed things. The only time he did anything that wasn't something we did from D2 was once... and it doesn't take a genius to realize that some skeletons with shields aren't going to take any/much damage from the front. You also probably saw him whirlwind through the same enemies at another point. What is any different about that? Same skill, same tactic. Same, same, same. The skill completely negated any sort of 'tactic' required to take an enemy out.
Really, they have this entire thing all wrong. Making enemies hit harder and limiting how often you can use skills is the way to make a game difficult. Being able to spam whirlwind through a group of enemies that should take planning isn't something any of us should be chomping at the bits for.
The more I actually think about the game and read what they say, the more I realize that it's not really going to be a challenge and that it's going to be another TQ where I'm going to have to find (or create) a mod that increases the difficulty or numbers of the monsters I'm fighting.
No game I've ever played has had tactical combat has been hard. Tactical, in the realm of gaming, simply means you have to learn the pattern of your enemy or experiment through trial and error... none of which bring anything fun or interesting to the table.
Once you learn an enemies pattern, that's it, you've won the encounter.
Yeah i've. For a pretty long time. I've too say it's the best online RPG with you want to PvP.
But in terms of PvE WoW is better, 'cause all Blizzards dedication goes to Raid Boss Fights. A big part of ppl who hates wow is because never done the game's high end.
I can't believe that a person can hate that game after kill Kael.
For the wow haters, i really believe that D3 boss fights will be pretty much the same, woth some major diferences (no need of a specific classses for tanking, healing, buffing). WoW's Bosses are the game's tryumph. And no doubt WoW is Blizz tryumph so far.
Just part of the game.
I don't like the to play the game like this. I like to level up a 99, hunt down overpower items and go to pvp. The pvp in D2 was very fun despite the imbalancing. But hunt down items and level up in D2 was terrible because the game was too limited Pass level 60+ until 99 making baal run was boring u.u This is definitly NOT a good online experience. Thats why i say things going to change ALOT.