So it was recently mentioned in an interview about durability possibly being included. Possibly as a death penalty (I would assume exactly like it is in wow).
In WoW: Lose durability during general gameplay, plus extra durability loss if you die in PvE, no durability loss for PvP. Once durability reaches 0, the item goes red and offers no stats/features until it is repaired. You can go to most tradesmen and pay a small fee to get any item you want repaired to full durability.
Now, what if, instead of durability lost over time it was only lost when a player died. And further more, they could not be repaired.
This offers a strong incentive not to die (you're items will become useless after lets say 10-20 deaths). However, it also does not adversly effect gameplay as you will constantly be getting new items.
To prevent high level characters with ridiculous gear losing it all, all they need do is continue playing and gathering new gear (as they would anyway), and there could also be a scroll of some sort (E.g. Scroll of Youth, Scroll of Something-or-other) that could be used on any piece of equipment to repair it completely. Possibly this scroll could only be used on each item once, and it also has an EXTREMELY low drop rate.
Those who couldnt be bothered reading a few sentences: -Durability loss occurs when you die. -Can not be repaired (except for possibly a scroll/enchantment of some sort which is ridiculously rare to find). -Leads to death penalty having a meaning, without negatively impacting gameplay.
Edit: Any suggestions, criticisms, comments appreciated.
Now, what if, instead of durability lost over time it was only lost when a player died. And further more, they could not be repaired.
Your whole idea here would be a nice challenge for people who might not want to do hardcore and still find it too easy for a normal game. However, I do not see this happening at all unless it is separated out into a game choice like hardcore mode/normal mode. It will never happen. Something like this deters people from wanting to play the game at all.
It is a loot based game. People don't want to see the loot they collect go obsolete just because they die...repairing durability loss is enough of a penalty. The use of a kind of scroll that will repair one item to full is sort of a work around to this, but I take it from what you describe that the scrolls will be very rare.
This is a bad idea because then you will have scrolls being more important to people that anything else in the game. That is not a very good way to improve upon the economy of the game, atleast in the sense that I believe Blizzard wants to run the economy with gold being a bigger part of it. Gold being more rare = durability being harder to repair. Its a much simpler and friendly way of going about durability loss.
sometimes you cant control whether or not you die. so its a pretty one sided idea. not to mention it just increases the number of mfers and boss runs, and someday bots and dupes.
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I choose to disagree with some of them For instance bots and dupes will always be present. If you ask me, my idea would reduce bots, as there would be no need to farm all day long for gold to repair you items (another reason for my idea). Gold could be used for buying/enchanting/whatever, but i fear that if gold is used to repair items it will eventually just turn into a grind for gold (like many mmo's for instance), rather than a game of strategy where you try not to die.
Lachdonan, good points raised. However i disagree with you that repairing durability loss is enough of a penalty. This will lead to a game where nobody actaully cares if they die, they might have to farm a half hours worth to make up the gold they lost, but that's hardly a big deal. Personally i believe that there would be enough items to gather as the game progresses that most players would not have any items become obselete.
Perhaps if gold is rarer, it will fix everything. However will it just turn into a farmfest where nobody actually cares about trying stay alive once they have ground a few gold?
Yea, overall I'd say it's a weird idea. Almost good, but I wouldn't go with it.
It won't make much sense to never lose durability while fighting. And yes that would increase incentive for MF runs and dupes. And I believe the repair cost of good items will be high enough anyway, so you'll always be on the look for gold when you can grab it, which takes gameplay and probably questing.
You worked hard to earn those items, why should they punish less experienced players so much for dying? And many items will probably be so rare that losing them would make many not want to ever use them anyway, making items into trophies not to be tampered with. That's not good for gameplay.
It just isn't fair to players to have to worry about dying SO much that they will be wimps and run like pansies when they wear good items during especially hard battles like bosses. Describing the gameplay as giving a sense and feel of an epic battle with fierce and brave warriors (like I assume Blizzard wants) won't seem so acurate when players are running scared trying not to lose their precious items while fighting the many antagonists they'll encounter.
Oiiii, it's a good idea dammit! just needs a little loving is all!
Rofl, ok i'll try and think of a new idea
I didn't mean to poop on your parade, just some constructive criticism. Lol... like I said, it's almost a good idea, just probably isnt the best thing to implement in Diablo.
Yeah.. I'm pretty sure it will impact the gameplay negatively, that's a given. Inducing a hard limit on durability is completely unfounded. It's fine that you are trying to amp up the death penalty but going that far as to completely make an item unrepairable is way too much for a game. What if the item is extremely expensive or rare? Too bad, you've lost it. Why don't you waste tens of hours trying to get it again? That would be way too unforgiving to players and frankly, it might even turn players away from the game.
Yeah.. I'm pretty sure it will impact the gameplay negatively, that's a given. Inducing a hard limit on durability is completely unfounded. It's fine that you are trying to amp up the death penalty but going that far as to completely make an item unrepairable is way too much for a game. What if the item is extremely expensive or rare? Too bad, you've lost it. Why don't you waste tens of hours trying to get it again? That would be way too unforgiving to players and frankly, it might even turn players away from the game.
Exactly, 10 points for effort but probably not the best thing to implement. It simply wouldn't be fair if you worked extremely hard and long to find your high-end items, or spend countless hours finding goods to trade for these high-end items only to find yourself being afraid of using them incase you die.
Plus LAG deaths and such are not uncommon on battlenet and there'd be nothing worse then loosing your brand new shiny helmet simply because you lagged out.
I do however see your concept and that is to increase the harshness of dying, but I think one of the biggest punishments in dying in most RPGs is not that you lose durability (and in-turn gold to repair items) but the fact that you have to walk to your corpse is punishment enough, especially when surrounded by monsters. In D2 you actually also lost gold and experience which made you extra careful not to die, but I think this is as far as you can go. You need to receive a penalty but nothing long term that is permanent or that you can't recover from.
A crappy idea.
Remember this is a trading game as well, they want to encourage trading in Diablo III.
your idea is horrible because, basically once you die with your gear on, your gear becomes instantly undesirable in trades, and looses all its value.
Simply, it's a horrble idea, and you should have thought about it a little more before posting it, I'm sure you'll see that it's disadvantages far outweigh its advantages.
A crappy idea.
Remember this is a trading game as well, they want to encourage trading in Diablo III.
your idea is horrible because, basically once you die with your gear on, your gear becomes instantly undesirable in trades, and looses all its value.
Simply, it's a horrble idea, and you should have thought about it a little more before posting it, I'm sure you'll see that it's disadvantages far outweigh its advantages.
So you better not die then.. or you should play hardcore.
And people who know how to play without dying will have more valuable items for trade.. sounds fair to me.
It simply wouldn't be fair if you worked extremely hard and long to find your high-end items, or spend countless hours finding goods to trade for these high-end items only to find yourself being afraid of using them incase you die.
People in hardcore wear their best stuff even if they can lose it all when they die.. this isn't different in any other way but you can die up to 20 times.
it might even turn players away from the game.
I wouldn't mind if the wussies were out of D3..
sometimes you cant control whether or not you die
Only one thing comes in my mind that has happened to me.. went trough wp and someone hacked me to death in split second. But in legit situations you can control.
That sounds like a very very very retarded concept. If I spend hours upon hours searching for a super rare item that will be worth 1 gold after I die x amount of time. No way.
Lachdonan, good points raised. However i disagree with you that repairing durability loss is enough of a penalty. This will lead to a game where nobody actaully cares if they die, they might have to farm a half hours worth to make up the gold they lost, but that's hardly a big deal. Personally i believe that there would be enough items to gather as the game progresses that most players would not have any items become obselete.
Perhaps if gold is rarer, it will fix everything. However will it just turn into a farmfest where nobody actually cares about trying stay alive once they have ground a few gold?
The only harsher thing for a penalty that I can think of would be to take something that I found to be very well done in Mythos. In Mythos when you die you receive a -5% to Luck(which is MF) for like 5 minutes. To make this even better instead of a time limit which sucks cause you can just go afk for that time, make it so instead of a time limit, there is a monster kill limit.
So lets say you die, you then have to kill X number of monsters equal to or greater than your level in order for the debuff to go away. I think thats a really nice way to keep people playing with the debuff they get from dieing. Its a loot penalty and it forces you to not go afk and also forces you to not go and kill low level mobs.
Death-induced loss of durability makes no sense to me; seems totally random. Why should merely dying affect an item's physical integrity?
I can see, and would support, an item occasionally sustaining irreparable damage in a particularly nasty skirmish with a bad-ass monster; such a skirmish that might also lead to your death (though not necessarily), but having it happen as a hard-and-fast penalty simply for the act of dying? No way. There's no logic in that.
Now as I alluded to, if, occasionally, a tough foe shreds your armor to the point that it can't be restored to full integrity in the course of ending your life, that works.
But if you keel over dead after getting tapped by a Fallen because you weren't paying attention and allowed your health to fall to critical levels... no. Item durability shouldn't be affected in that kind of scenario. So I don't think it makes sense as THE penalty.
Losing some gold, AND a random number of items because a monster stole-away with them while you were lying there imitating fertilizer (the drops you receive from monsters when you kill them have to come from somewhere, right?) makes much more sense.
And as much as I abhor the occurrence -- it used to make me instantly see red for losing that particular benefit of my efforts -- it makes sense now that I think rationally about it in the course of this response... even losing a certain amount of experience is fitting. I mean, if you get thrashed severely enough to die, it should take you a while to recover from your injuries, and get back to your former level of health and ability.
Most of this already happens, with Diablo II and LoD, except for losing items. But I think outright loss of one or two items upon death is much more logical as a consistent penalty than decreased item durability, and a fair incentive to stay alive.
The only harsher thing for a penalty that I can think of would be to take something that I found to be very well done in Mythos. In Mythos when you die you receive a -5% to Luck(which is MF) for like 5 minutes. To make this even better instead of a time limit which sucks cause you can just go afk for that time, make it so instead of a time limit, there is a monster kill limit.
So lets say you die, you then have to kill X number of monsters equal to or greater than your level in order for the debuff to go away. I think thats a really nice way to keep people playing with the debuff they get from dieing. Its a loot penalty and it forces you to not go afk and also forces you to not go and kill low level mobs.
I quite like this idea and seems to be loophole free.
Other ideas I have are:
-Perhaps when you die, and collect your corpse your max health and/or mana are reduced by 25% or something (as you JUST died...) this debuf is on a timer for X seconds upon which you fully recover.
-Gold or Random items from you inventory can be taken from the monster(s) that killed you. When you recover and kill the monster(s) they drop your item. In multiplayer games, your items should only be visable for you to collect to avoid other players simply running by, killing the monster(s) that killed you, and then taking your item.
-Slower movement debuff for X seconds after corpse is collected.
In multiplayer games, your items should only be visable for you to collect to avoid other players simply running by, killing the monster(s) that killed you, and then taking your item.
~Shiman
This happens already, no matter who kills the monster. To each his own items.
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D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
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In WoW: Lose durability during general gameplay, plus extra durability loss if you die in PvE, no durability loss for PvP. Once durability reaches 0, the item goes red and offers no stats/features until it is repaired. You can go to most tradesmen and pay a small fee to get any item you want repaired to full durability.
Now, what if, instead of durability lost over time it was only lost when a player died. And further more, they could not be repaired.
This offers a strong incentive not to die (you're items will become useless after lets say 10-20 deaths). However, it also does not adversly effect gameplay as you will constantly be getting new items.
To prevent high level characters with ridiculous gear losing it all, all they need do is continue playing and gathering new gear (as they would anyway), and there could also be a scroll of some sort (E.g. Scroll of Youth, Scroll of Something-or-other) that could be used on any piece of equipment to repair it completely. Possibly this scroll could only be used on each item once, and it also has an EXTREMELY low drop rate.
Those who couldnt be bothered reading a few sentences:
-Durability loss occurs when you die.
-Can not be repaired (except for possibly a scroll/enchantment of some sort which is ridiculously rare to find).
-Leads to death penalty having a meaning, without negatively impacting gameplay.
Edit: Any suggestions, criticisms, comments appreciated.
Your whole idea here would be a nice challenge for people who might not want to do hardcore and still find it too easy for a normal game. However, I do not see this happening at all unless it is separated out into a game choice like hardcore mode/normal mode. It will never happen. Something like this deters people from wanting to play the game at all.
It is a loot based game. People don't want to see the loot they collect go obsolete just because they die...repairing durability loss is enough of a penalty. The use of a kind of scroll that will repair one item to full is sort of a work around to this, but I take it from what you describe that the scrolls will be very rare.
This is a bad idea because then you will have scrolls being more important to people that anything else in the game. That is not a very good way to improve upon the economy of the game, atleast in the sense that I believe Blizzard wants to run the economy with gold being a bigger part of it. Gold being more rare = durability being harder to repair. Its a much simpler and friendly way of going about durability loss.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I choose to disagree with some of them For instance bots and dupes will always be present. If you ask me, my idea would reduce bots, as there would be no need to farm all day long for gold to repair you items (another reason for my idea). Gold could be used for buying/enchanting/whatever, but i fear that if gold is used to repair items it will eventually just turn into a grind for gold (like many mmo's for instance), rather than a game of strategy where you try not to die.
Lachdonan, good points raised. However i disagree with you that repairing durability loss is enough of a penalty. This will lead to a game where nobody actaully cares if they die, they might have to farm a half hours worth to make up the gold they lost, but that's hardly a big deal. Personally i believe that there would be enough items to gather as the game progresses that most players would not have any items become obselete.
Perhaps if gold is rarer, it will fix everything. However will it just turn into a farmfest where nobody actually cares about trying stay alive once they have ground a few gold?
It won't make much sense to never lose durability while fighting. And yes that would increase incentive for MF runs and dupes. And I believe the repair cost of good items will be high enough anyway, so you'll always be on the look for gold when you can grab it, which takes gameplay and probably questing.
You worked hard to earn those items, why should they punish less experienced players so much for dying? And many items will probably be so rare that losing them would make many not want to ever use them anyway, making items into trophies not to be tampered with. That's not good for gameplay.
It just isn't fair to players to have to worry about dying SO much that they will be wimps and run like pansies when they wear good items during especially hard battles like bosses. Describing the gameplay as giving a sense and feel of an epic battle with fierce and brave warriors (like I assume Blizzard wants) won't seem so acurate when players are running scared trying not to lose their precious items while fighting the many antagonists they'll encounter.
Over confidence is the rot.
Rofl, ok i'll try and think of a new idea
I didn't mean to poop on your parade, just some constructive criticism. Lol... like I said, it's almost a good idea, just probably isnt the best thing to implement in Diablo.
Over confidence is the rot.
Criticism makes baby jesus cry.
WTB hole in which to hide
Plus LAG deaths and such are not uncommon on battlenet and there'd be nothing worse then loosing your brand new shiny helmet simply because you lagged out.
I do however see your concept and that is to increase the harshness of dying, but I think one of the biggest punishments in dying in most RPGs is not that you lose durability (and in-turn gold to repair items) but the fact that you have to walk to your corpse is punishment enough, especially when surrounded by monsters. In D2 you actually also lost gold and experience which made you extra careful not to die, but I think this is as far as you can go. You need to receive a penalty but nothing long term that is permanent or that you can't recover from.
~Shiman
No
No
No
and so on. Non permanent items are even worse than soulbound items. Words cannot express how absolutely terrible this idea is.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Remember this is a trading game as well, they want to encourage trading in Diablo III.
your idea is horrible because, basically once you die with your gear on, your gear becomes instantly undesirable in trades, and looses all its value.
Simply, it's a horrble idea, and you should have thought about it a little more before posting it, I'm sure you'll see that it's disadvantages far outweigh its advantages.
And people who know how to play without dying will have more valuable items for trade.. sounds fair to me.
People in hardcore wear their best stuff even if they can lose it all when they die.. this isn't different in any other way but you can die up to 20 times.
I wouldn't mind if the wussies were out of D3..
Only one thing comes in my mind that has happened to me.. went trough wp and someone hacked me to death in split second. But in legit situations you can control.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
The only harsher thing for a penalty that I can think of would be to take something that I found to be very well done in Mythos. In Mythos when you die you receive a -5% to Luck(which is MF) for like 5 minutes. To make this even better instead of a time limit which sucks cause you can just go afk for that time, make it so instead of a time limit, there is a monster kill limit.
So lets say you die, you then have to kill X number of monsters equal to or greater than your level in order for the debuff to go away. I think thats a really nice way to keep people playing with the debuff they get from dieing. Its a loot penalty and it forces you to not go afk and also forces you to not go and kill low level mobs.
I can see, and would support, an item occasionally sustaining irreparable damage in a particularly nasty skirmish with a bad-ass monster; such a skirmish that might also lead to your death (though not necessarily), but having it happen as a hard-and-fast penalty simply for the act of dying? No way. There's no logic in that.
Now as I alluded to, if, occasionally, a tough foe shreds your armor to the point that it can't be restored to full integrity in the course of ending your life, that works.
But if you keel over dead after getting tapped by a Fallen because you weren't paying attention and allowed your health to fall to critical levels... no. Item durability shouldn't be affected in that kind of scenario. So I don't think it makes sense as THE penalty.
Losing some gold, AND a random number of items because a monster stole-away with them while you were lying there imitating fertilizer (the drops you receive from monsters when you kill them have to come from somewhere, right?) makes much more sense.
And as much as I abhor the occurrence -- it used to make me instantly see red for losing that particular benefit of my efforts -- it makes sense now that I think rationally about it in the course of this response... even losing a certain amount of experience is fitting. I mean, if you get thrashed severely enough to die, it should take you a while to recover from your injuries, and get back to your former level of health and ability.
Most of this already happens, with Diablo II and LoD, except for losing items. But I think outright loss of one or two items upon death is much more logical as a consistent penalty than decreased item durability, and a fair incentive to stay alive.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
I quite like this idea and seems to be loophole free.
Other ideas I have are:
-Perhaps when you die, and collect your corpse your max health and/or mana are reduced by 25% or something (as you JUST died...) this debuf is on a timer for X seconds upon which you fully recover.
-Gold or Random items from you inventory can be taken from the monster(s) that killed you. When you recover and kill the monster(s) they drop your item. In multiplayer games, your items should only be visable for you to collect to avoid other players simply running by, killing the monster(s) that killed you, and then taking your item.
-Slower movement debuff for X seconds after corpse is collected.
~Shiman
This happens already, no matter who kills the monster. To each his own items.
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.