...and if the only way you can kill in hell is with a big party then how the hell do u get godly gear anymore? I didnt see anything godly drop at all in 100+ hell baal runs and thats including the gear I didnt get to pick up in time.
You want to know what's impossible? Impossible is stating my opinion at this point when so many people have mixed things that make sence with things that don't make sence. But I digress.
Part of the game, actually a very big part of the game, is anticipating these situations. You should never be questing with a character who only has one type of damage at his disposal. If not from skills, get it from your weapon or charms. It's not a bad design in D2, it's you making it hard on yourself. If you wánt to play a gimped character, sure, but don't complain about it afterwards.
Typically, you should have at least 2 different damage types from your skills, and everything else via charms and equipment.
Think of it this way: if you are a wizard who can only cast fire type of spells, and you encounter a fire elemental, are you going to say "wait a second, this isn't fair". No, you're gonna run like hell and get lessons in diversity.
But more important than this, you are talking about hard difficulty. If you play the game and beat it on Normal, well done. If you then want more challenge, you play it on Nightmare. But if you can't beat Nightmare, you don't have to blame yourself or the game, you simply admit that the higher difficulty level was designed for people that want a challenge. Now, if it was Normal difficulty and you're part of the group of people the game is designed for, and you can't beat it, that is bad game design. But harder difficulties is for people who want a challenge.
But okay, in gaming terms it should be reasonable that if you are a good player in most games Nightmare should be doable. But to complain about the hardest setting on a game? It's designed to be that hard.
I was going to post a few paragraphs on this thread myself only to find that my exact thoughts were posted already.
QFT x 10
Play at your skill level and leave the people who want to actually DIE sometimes due to insanely powerful mobs alone. If theres one thing that would make me not buy diablo 3 it would be something to the effect of "we've effectively done away with harder settings in diablo 3...now everybody can play and not have to worry about monsters killing them from time to time". Exaggeration(sp?) of course but you get my point...
Seth
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I agree completely. Just started d2 again couple weeks ago and my sorc is now lvl 86 and easily gets killed in act 1 hell and cant kill shit by herself. resistance this or that, i tried to make her balanced which didnt help at all. she has lots of mf gear and ive done probobly close to +100 hell mode baal runs and not finding any worthwhile items.
Rofl.... You havn't done 100+ hell baals... lol. You would be a much higher level than 86. And only being 86 means you have never solo'd a hell baal run, which means that pickit players have probably stolen all the drops.
Hell is not impossible at all. There are a few different combonations that can absolutly dominate hell. Hammerdins, Frenzy barbs, Ele druids, Bone necros, javazons, bowazons, Meteorb sorc, Dual ele Trapasins, etc.
And if you run into immunities, just run in with a buddy or two sporting atleast 2-3 elements together.
And if your still finding it hard, get some low level uniques (Hotspurs, Goldskin, Tarnhelm etc) and use SHael+tal+a Pdiamond and upgrade them. My recent ladder hammerdin solo'd hell at level 72 (wearing Dual Spirit, Lore Shako, Smoke (in a Mageplate), frostburns, dual magic 10% fcr +str/mf rings, a 15% priz ammy, upped hotspurs (100 armor!), and an Upped lenimo (for 4 slots).) I have done MAYBE 50 countess runs, then traded my higher runes for multiple lower runes to complete runewords. For example, trading an Amn for a Ort, Thul, and Tal. Sure, you lose some monetary value, but you get what you want fairly easily.
Considering leveling 1-25 takes 10 minutes with a chanter, then baaling for an hour gets you to 50-60ish, doing NM countess runs are nothing. Many runewords are very achievable by this rate. For example: Spirit (TalThulOrtAmn, all of which ar levl 25 and below accessable), Smoke (NefLum), Stealth (TalEth), Lore (OrtSol), Rhyme (ShaelEth) are all very easily attained RW's that are fairly effective untill you get up into the Enigma's, Hoto's, CoH's etc.
Realistically, D2 is not hard. If anything it should become harder. As an HC player, i have lost 2 characters this ladder, both from silly mistakes (Going afk outside, and lagging at hell forge) that i should have known better than to do (heh, not playing for awhile does that to you...).
Diablo is not hard at all, even mediocre gear can do decently with some effort, skills, and precautions.
thats a very good point, but i think the point is that you have to spec and gear so that you dont face that problem. that way your not a one way character that just uses one move
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"I'd rather chop off my ding-dong than admit that booze ain't food!"
"Diablo is not hard at all, even mediocre gear can do decently with some effort, skills, and precautions."
What game are you playing. Imagine you are a brand new player not knowing the ins and outs of this game and just started. Try to play it like that without anyone ever helping you, telling you what to wear, what to max, where to run, where to farm. You're just REALLY familiar with the game, but anyone who's familiar with the game is going to be awesome in it, I know that as someone familiar with some other games I played to death.
But for the average player, the game is crooked and totally unintuitive. DIII must not be so.
"Diablo is not hard at all, even mediocre gear can do decently with some effort, skills, and precautions."
What game are you playing. Imagine you are a brand new player not knowing the ins and outs of this game and just started. Try to play it like that without anyone ever helping you, telling you what to wear, what to max, where to run, where to farm. You're just REALLY familiar with the game, but anyone who's familiar with the game is going to be awesome in it, I know that as someone familiar with some other games I played to death.
But for the average player, the game is crooked and totally unintuitive. DIII must not be so.
Exactly, it needs to have that sweet sweet balance that is completely doable on single player, maybe you guys have gone through single player all the way even through baal with no help, only one character to manage it all but i certainly never got past a1 hell single player
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
You could often get dual elemental immunes for your sorcs spec though... which kind of sucked.
Its more like the ones with fanaticism, lightning enchanted, extra strong, extra fast, immune to physical/lightning, cursed....
They were insane.
let's not forget conviction plus extra fast or extra strong:S
I agree with those who say that the game is not impossible, if you come across a monster who's immune to your spec then just save and exit and try again.
I'm sure you'll come to a point when you can to the quest, kill the monster etc.
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add me if you want to^^
Europe non ladder and ladder player
I'm gonna put my highrune in your socket
flyarion, flyarion_third, flyarion_fourth, flyarion_fifth
Hell is not impossible at all. There are a few different combonations that can absolutly dominate hell. Hammerdins, Frenzy barbs, Ele druids, Bone necros, javazons, bowazons, Meteorb sorc, Dual ele Trapasins, etc.
And if you run into immunities, just run in with a buddy or two sporting atleast 2-3 elements together.
And if your still finding it hard, get some low level uniques (Hotspurs, Goldskin, Tarnhelm etc) and use SHael+tal+a Pdiamond and upgrade them. My recent ladder hammerdin solo'd hell at level 72
And everyone have to be a hammerdin? or some other of those. I want to make a lightning sorc.. but she can't do a thing against lightning immunes.. Immunes make some builds too strong compared to others and also disable many build choises.
A hammerdin could prolly go trough hell naked since they are so OP, play some other char.
Well in D2 you could use the runeword Infinity on a merc which gives the Conviction aura and remove immunes, but it's kind of hard to get.
A) you can't probably get this during nightmare
can the infinity be made for a a3 cold merc that the OP had? Or was it only polearms.
It came in 1.10 where they also changed it that you can break immunities, before that if there was immune it was immune. (i think amp did remove PI?)
But to the OP you could probably try to find lower resist charge wand from vendor.. that might be enough to get the immunity off. Also for the future you should get some item that adds amplify damage on the monsters.. that will take care of the physical immunities.
And everyone have to be a hammerdin? or some other of those. I want to make a lightning sorc.. but she can't do a thing against lightning immunes.. Immunes make some builds too strong compared to others and also disable many build choises.
A hammerdin could prolly go trough hell naked since they are so OP, play some other char.
Wow... you read well hey? I just listed many builds (1+ per class) that can solo hell of the top of my head. Yes i know the game in and out, but in no way is it impossible. It is difficult, a challenge, and sometimes luck factors into it. But, the point is to be difficult.
Another option is to have a friend with the conviction aura, etc. It is not impossible in anyway whatsoever. It is impossible if you limit yourself to certian builds, or do not create a character with an enough variations of damage etc. But is it our fault you limited your character? Is that my fault you didn't choose another option?
Yes, build choices are limited, but with gear you can work around that. Again, it is not in anyway impossible. Save up for that nice infinity Polearm so your merc can help you out. You want the game to be difficult? It is difficult. You want it to be possible? it is VERY possible.
A1 single player is, again, not that difficult either. Get an easy build (such as meteorb sorcs, great early, great later... 2 effective elements.) if it is that difficult.
You bring up merc choice aswell. Again, you are not limited by your choices, but as always some will be much better than others, realistically.
i think half of the fun in the last game was just playing the cards you were dealt. I'd take some time scoping out any possible option, taking screenies of the monsters to show off later to friends. The invincimonsters were the only ones worth showing, and eventually you wore them down to the bone.
Hmm. Maybe there is a purpose for destructible environments. Allowing you to damage immune monsters or open an escape path until you can find the help necessary to defeat them. Or hell they might just get rid of super immune freakazoid monsters and the noobies can have their way chopping through hordes unhindered. I hope not but we'll see.
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The blind mind's eye replies with a sigh and a tear of contempt for those who see the world as it truly is.
Yes i know the game in and out, but in no way is it impossible. It is difficult, a challenge, and sometimes luck factors into it.
Hey, if you, a person who knows the game in and out, says "it's difficult, a challenge", then I can safely say the game is not too possible for a beginner. I told you, forget what you know, and try to play it like that. Forget what skills do. Forget what Immortal Spears are. Forget how cool Act II mercs are... Because you are supposed to totally own and wreck everything in a game you know well. :confused: If you don't, the difficulty of that game is very high, much higher than it should be for a begginning player. I am even talking about Nightmare here.
I think the point he's making, iCanada, that either way you have to make something crappy, and something very limited. This is what makes the game from 10 builds per character into 3 builds per character...
Impossible? No. But technically, nothing is impossible. You could probably kill every monster with a common mace you picked up from the ground, except, uhh, it's gonna take ages.
The problem is not impossible. The problem is boring.
Sorcs have to max both orb and meteor (fireball w/e) + sorc stuff (static, warmth, teleport, pre-reqs). A hammerdin just maxes hammer and aura. Not balanced. (not counting teleport here since that skill shouldn't even exist)
"A1 single player is, again, not that difficult either. Get an easy build" - get an easy build? Why the hell? Maybe I want a funky one? But why is someone playing multiplayer is better off than I am because he has friends? Fix the goddamn monsters for single player please. No matter how you look at it, SP is harder than MP in every way, ranging from no friends helping you, no item transfer (except lan maybe), and monsters designed for a coop game. SP doesn't work like that.
If I recall around the time that hell was buffed after LOD there were many "Its impossible solo" complaints to that effect. This seems to happen with just about every game that implements a harder "area" or difficulty albeit a MMORPG or a RPG hack'n'slash. There will be a learning curve and if by the time you roll around to what is supposed to be the HARDEST setting of the game...let me reiterate HARDESSST setting of the game, you have trouble killing this or that. I hate to tell you thats why the difficulty setting is called "hell" mode.
If you are not willing to change your tactics of playing or building of your characters to make hell mode less of a "die-fest" then you obviously are not ready to be playing on a difficulty above your skills of playing. I plan to get the floor whiped in the blood of any starting characters i take into the last difficulty until it is literally beat into my head how to adapt and recreate/reskill my character to be able to handle it effectively.
I beleive that our newbies to the franchise or when we all first begin even(since technically we will all be newbies when d3 first hits the shelves) should not have too much trouble carving our ways through normal difficulty. When we hit nightmare it should get noticeably different as we should have come to grips with how the game handles and our character's skills play. When we reach the mid/end of nightmare we should really be having some issues in certain areas and learn what needs to be done to handle those situations accordingly. Now, when we finally reach that point of being able to defeat the final mission/act/chapter w/e in nightmare we should be very well versed in the workings of our character as well as have a very decent understanding of what items are important to our build/character type.
At that point when we start venturing into hell we should hit very STIFF opposition in the first act. The learning curve at this difficulty should become very steep, u've learned and mastered the basics of your character now its time to take a beating and see what you're made of. As you slug your way slowly further into the acts of hell you will obviously be exposed to some very nice drops of which to make your character even stronger and outfit him more fitting for the difficulty at which you are playing. If you simply find it too hard for your liking you need to go back and keep playing on NM. As said in the very beginning of this post this is meant to be the "end-game" level of difficulty it will become no harder than this. Asking blizzard to dumb down the hardest setting of the game so just any average-joe player can come in and destroy the acts is rediculous.
Seth
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If I recall around the time that hell was buffed after LOD there were many "Its impossible solo" complaints to that effect. This seems to happen with just about every game that implements a harder "area" or difficulty albeit a MMORPG or a RPG hack'n'slash. There will be a learning curve and if by the time you roll around to what is supposed to be the HARDEST setting of the game...let me reiterate HARDESSST setting of the game, you have trouble killing this or that. I hate to tell you thats why the difficulty setting is called "hell" mode.
If you are not willing to change your tactics of playing or building of your characters to make hell mode less of a "die-fest" then you obviously are not ready to be playing on a difficulty above your skills of playing. I plan to get the floor whiped in the blood of any starting characters i take into the last difficulty until it is literally beat into my head how to adapt and recreate/reskill my character to be able to handle it effectively.
I beleive that our newbies to the franchise or when we all first begin even(since technically we will all be newbies when d3 first hits the shelves) should not have too much trouble carving our ways through normal difficulty. When we hit nightmare it should get noticeably different as we should have come to grips with how the game handles and our character's skills play. When we reach the mid/end of nightmare we should really be having some issues in certain areas and learn what needs to be done to handle those situations accordingly. Now, when we finally reach that point of being able to defeat the final mission/act/chapter w/e in nightmare we should be very well versed in the workings of our character as well as have a very decent understanding of what items are important to our build/character type.
At that point when we start venturing into hell we should hit very STIFF opposition in the first act. The learning curve at this difficulty should become very steep, u've learned and mastered the basics of your character now its time to take a beating and see what you're made of. As you slug your way slowly further into the acts of hell you will obviously be exposed to some very nice drops of which to make your character even stronger and outfit him more fitting for the difficulty at which you are playing. If you simply find it too hard for your liking you need to go back and keep playing on NM. As said in the very beginning of this post this is meant to be the "end-game" level of difficulty it will become no harder than this. Asking blizzard to dumb down the hardest setting of the game so just any average-joe player can come in and destroy the acts is rediculous.
Seth
First of all, great post. Second, i agree 100%.
Yes i know the game in and out, i know a good 50% of rw's of the top of my head etc. I know how to outfit every character etc. Hell is challenging and difficult. Is that not what he just asked for? And in retrospective, i meant hell is hard and difficult at first. Very challenging. Then you start understanding your character, herding etc much better and become addept at gameplay.
If you want the game to be easy through and through, heh. I would much rather play in a game where stuff is hard, and i am challenged at every corner. That is what i love about diablo, the playstyle etc.
For the record, what exactly is your defining of Challenging and difficult? Challenging personally means that i must work hard and stay allert to get past alive. That i must have my pots ready, and the ability to adapt a stratatgy for each and every situation from every corner. Diablo 2 is a fairly easy game. With good gear you can pretty much destroy Hell.
If i was a nub and i did not know the game that well, then damn... I guess i should learn? no? If you do not know enough at the time for hell, come back later when you do...
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I was going to post a few paragraphs on this thread myself only to find that my exact thoughts were posted already.
QFT x 10
Play at your skill level and leave the people who want to actually DIE sometimes due to insanely powerful mobs alone. If theres one thing that would make me not buy diablo 3 it would be something to the effect of "we've effectively done away with harder settings in diablo 3...now everybody can play and not have to worry about monsters killing them from time to time". Exaggeration(sp?) of course but you get my point...
Seth
Rofl.... You havn't done 100+ hell baals... lol. You would be a much higher level than 86. And only being 86 means you have never solo'd a hell baal run, which means that pickit players have probably stolen all the drops.
Hell is not impossible at all. There are a few different combonations that can absolutly dominate hell. Hammerdins, Frenzy barbs, Ele druids, Bone necros, javazons, bowazons, Meteorb sorc, Dual ele Trapasins, etc.
And if you run into immunities, just run in with a buddy or two sporting atleast 2-3 elements together.
And if your still finding it hard, get some low level uniques (Hotspurs, Goldskin, Tarnhelm etc) and use SHael+tal+a Pdiamond and upgrade them. My recent ladder hammerdin solo'd hell at level 72 (wearing Dual Spirit, Lore Shako, Smoke (in a Mageplate), frostburns, dual magic 10% fcr +str/mf rings, a 15% priz ammy, upped hotspurs (100 armor!), and an Upped lenimo (for 4 slots).) I have done MAYBE 50 countess runs, then traded my higher runes for multiple lower runes to complete runewords. For example, trading an Amn for a Ort, Thul, and Tal. Sure, you lose some monetary value, but you get what you want fairly easily.
Considering leveling 1-25 takes 10 minutes with a chanter, then baaling for an hour gets you to 50-60ish, doing NM countess runs are nothing. Many runewords are very achievable by this rate. For example: Spirit (TalThulOrtAmn, all of which ar levl 25 and below accessable), Smoke (NefLum), Stealth (TalEth), Lore (OrtSol), Rhyme (ShaelEth) are all very easily attained RW's that are fairly effective untill you get up into the Enigma's, Hoto's, CoH's etc.
Realistically, D2 is not hard. If anything it should become harder. As an HC player, i have lost 2 characters this ladder, both from silly mistakes (Going afk outside, and lagging at hell forge) that i should have known better than to do (heh, not playing for awhile does that to you...).
Diablo is not hard at all, even mediocre gear can do decently with some effort, skills, and precautions.
:rolleyes:
What game are you playing. Imagine you are a brand new player not knowing the ins and outs of this game and just started. Try to play it like that without anyone ever helping you, telling you what to wear, what to max, where to run, where to farm. You're just REALLY familiar with the game, but anyone who's familiar with the game is going to be awesome in it, I know that as someone familiar with some other games I played to death.
But for the average player, the game is crooked and totally unintuitive. DIII must not be so.
Exactly, it needs to have that sweet sweet balance that is completely doable on single player, maybe you guys have gone through single player all the way even through baal with no help, only one character to manage it all but i certainly never got past a1 hell single player
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
let's not forget conviction plus extra fast or extra strong:S
I agree with those who say that the game is not impossible, if you come across a monster who's immune to your spec then just save and exit and try again.
I'm sure you'll come to a point when you can to the quest, kill the monster etc.
add me if you want to^^
Europe non ladder and ladder player
I'm gonna put my highrune in your socket
flyarion, flyarion_third, flyarion_fourth, flyarion_fifth
A hammerdin could prolly go trough hell naked since they are so OP, play some other char.
A) you can't probably get this during nightmare
can the infinity be made for a a3 cold merc that the OP had? Or was it only polearms.
It came in 1.10 where they also changed it that you can break immunities, before that if there was immune it was immune. (i think amp did remove PI?)
But to the OP you could probably try to find lower resist charge wand from vendor.. that might be enough to get the immunity off. Also for the future you should get some item that adds amplify damage on the monsters.. that will take care of the physical immunities.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Wow... you read well hey? I just listed many builds (1+ per class) that can solo hell of the top of my head. Yes i know the game in and out, but in no way is it impossible. It is difficult, a challenge, and sometimes luck factors into it. But, the point is to be difficult.
Another option is to have a friend with the conviction aura, etc. It is not impossible in anyway whatsoever. It is impossible if you limit yourself to certian builds, or do not create a character with an enough variations of damage etc. But is it our fault you limited your character? Is that my fault you didn't choose another option?
Yes, build choices are limited, but with gear you can work around that. Again, it is not in anyway impossible. Save up for that nice infinity Polearm so your merc can help you out. You want the game to be difficult? It is difficult. You want it to be possible? it is VERY possible.
A1 single player is, again, not that difficult either. Get an easy build (such as meteorb sorcs, great early, great later... 2 effective elements.) if it is that difficult.
You bring up merc choice aswell. Again, you are not limited by your choices, but as always some will be much better than others, realistically.
Sorry, but your arguements don't really say much.
I think the point he's making, iCanada, that either way you have to make something crappy, and something very limited. This is what makes the game from 10 builds per character into 3 builds per character...
Impossible? No. But technically, nothing is impossible. You could probably kill every monster with a common mace you picked up from the ground, except, uhh, it's gonna take ages.
The problem is not impossible. The problem is boring.
Sorcs have to max both orb and meteor (fireball w/e) + sorc stuff (static, warmth, teleport, pre-reqs). A hammerdin just maxes hammer and aura. Not balanced. (not counting teleport here since that skill shouldn't even exist)
"A1 single player is, again, not that difficult either. Get an easy build" - get an easy build? Why the hell? Maybe I want a funky one? But why is someone playing multiplayer is better off than I am because he has friends? Fix the goddamn monsters for single player please. No matter how you look at it, SP is harder than MP in every way, ranging from no friends helping you, no item transfer (except lan maybe), and monsters designed for a coop game. SP doesn't work like that.
If you are not willing to change your tactics of playing or building of your characters to make hell mode less of a "die-fest" then you obviously are not ready to be playing on a difficulty above your skills of playing. I plan to get the floor whiped in the blood of any starting characters i take into the last difficulty until it is literally beat into my head how to adapt and recreate/reskill my character to be able to handle it effectively.
I beleive that our newbies to the franchise or when we all first begin even(since technically we will all be newbies when d3 first hits the shelves) should not have too much trouble carving our ways through normal difficulty. When we hit nightmare it should get noticeably different as we should have come to grips with how the game handles and our character's skills play. When we reach the mid/end of nightmare we should really be having some issues in certain areas and learn what needs to be done to handle those situations accordingly. Now, when we finally reach that point of being able to defeat the final mission/act/chapter w/e in nightmare we should be very well versed in the workings of our character as well as have a very decent understanding of what items are important to our build/character type.
At that point when we start venturing into hell we should hit very STIFF opposition in the first act. The learning curve at this difficulty should become very steep, u've learned and mastered the basics of your character now its time to take a beating and see what you're made of. As you slug your way slowly further into the acts of hell you will obviously be exposed to some very nice drops of which to make your character even stronger and outfit him more fitting for the difficulty at which you are playing. If you simply find it too hard for your liking you need to go back and keep playing on NM. As said in the very beginning of this post this is meant to be the "end-game" level of difficulty it will become no harder than this. Asking blizzard to dumb down the hardest setting of the game so just any average-joe player can come in and destroy the acts is rediculous.
Seth
First of all, great post. Second, i agree 100%.
Yes i know the game in and out, i know a good 50% of rw's of the top of my head etc. I know how to outfit every character etc. Hell is challenging and difficult. Is that not what he just asked for? And in retrospective, i meant hell is hard and difficult at first. Very challenging. Then you start understanding your character, herding etc much better and become addept at gameplay.
If you want the game to be easy through and through, heh. I would much rather play in a game where stuff is hard, and i am challenged at every corner. That is what i love about diablo, the playstyle etc.
For the record, what exactly is your defining of Challenging and difficult? Challenging personally means that i must work hard and stay allert to get past alive. That i must have my pots ready, and the ability to adapt a stratatgy for each and every situation from every corner. Diablo 2 is a fairly easy game. With good gear you can pretty much destroy Hell.
If i was a nub and i did not know the game that well, then damn... I guess i should learn? no? If you do not know enough at the time for hell, come back later when you do...