Can we all agree D3 needs to expand on the current D2 hostile system and improve it? The current D2 system is fine and WOULD work for D3 but I think we all agree it needs to be looked at again from both sides of the table.
I personally FULLY support that PK still be in D3 because at the end of the day Diablo is supposed to be a role playing game. Players should be able to chose how they play the game and not be forced into rule sets based on how certain portions of the population feel. That's the true essence of what an RPG is supposed to be.
But your logic is flawed... rules sets in RPGs are designed to create and maintain a fair and balanced game to provide enjoyment out of everyone. PKing is neither fair nor balanced... therefore rule sets will be implicated.
You can play WoW all day long, but you'll never convince Blizzard to allow Priest Turn Undead spells to damage the Forsaken... it's neither fair nor balanced to the entire player base.
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------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Learn to play. 6-7 people could easily kill a hammerdin.
If every one of them just so happened to be using characters with PvP builds and were a decent enough level to stand a chance. But of course, I'm sure every game you've ever played, the characters have always been of optimum builds, with optimum gear and optimum levels, so you've never had to worry about a thing.
Cheers,
SmashBoy (now who's living in a dream world?)
Learn to play. 6-7 people could easily kill a hammerdin.
Yeah when he hostiles them and pops through his own town portal and begins to spam hammers that do around 11k non elemental AOE damage while they're fighting a boss, you're right they TOTALLY could have easily killed him. :rolleyes:
When you're focused on a boss, the last thing you expect is someone to hop on through the town portal and begin to spam hammers.
Yeah when he hostiles them and pops through his own town portal and begins to spam hammers that do around 11k non elemental AOE damage while they're fighting a boss, you're right they TOTALLY could have easily killed him. :rolleyes:
When you're focused on a boss, the last thing you expect is someone to hope on throw the town portal and begin to spam hammers.
But your logic is flawed... rules sets in RPGs are designed to create and maintain a fair and balanced game to provide enjoyment out of everyone. PKing is neither fair nor balanced... therefore rule sets will be implicated.
You can play WoW all day long, but you'll never convince Blizzard to allow Priest Turn Undead spells to damage the Forsaken... it's neither fair nor balanced to the entire player base.
How is my logic flawed? RPGs are based on choices. A PK chooses to go hostile. You, player have any number of tools at your disposal to deal with the threat. Regardless of gear, level, skill.
That's what what made D2 awesome and that's what made WoW awesome. Blizzard would have done away with any sort of "PKing" a long time ago if they didn't think it fit into there version of what an "RPG" is
How is my logic flawed? RPGs are based on choices. A PK chooses to go hostile. You, player have any number of tools at your disposal to deal with the threat. Regardless of gear, level, skill.
That's what what made D2 awesome and that's what made WoW awesome. Blizzard would have done away with any sort of "PKing" a long time ago if they didn't think it fit into there version of what an "RPG" is
CLASSIC RPG's are based on choices. New RPG's are based on choices you can make depending on gameplay and what is severely liked/disliked.
If something is severely disliked, it will be fixed or removed.
I think when it comes to PK, especially in Hardcore, it promotes exploitation of game mechanics and/or glitches or hacks/mods.
I think it would require a stringent amount of attention from Blizzard to make PKing STRICTLY within the game's bounds, and only within the game's bounds. Otherwise everything that we truly hated about PKing in D2 will crop up in D3.
I'm a huge PK/Dueler, still am in fact. But when people start screwing with game mechanics with third party mods, it ruins what PKing was supposed to be. Those mods were not put in by the designers, hence they would not have played with them, hence it ruins the game.
Anyways... I like the pk element in games. you have the choice to make solo games. It's up to the player.
How is my logic flawed? RPGs are based on choices. A PK chooses to go hostile. You, player have any number of tools at your disposal to deal with the threat. Regardless of gear, level, skill.
That's what what made D2 awesome and that's what made WoW awesome. Blizzard would have done away with any sort of "PKing" a long time ago if they didn't think it fit into there version of what an "RPG" is
While I will agree that, through I hated it, WoW's world PvP was a brilliant design on Blizzard's behalf. What I feel is a top reason the game sold so well was the utter enmity between the Horde and the Alliance. World PvP did nothing more than to propigate that. That's fine and well, I'll accept that.
I'll also concede that RPGs are based on player choices. However I feel that inhibiting certain player choices by our GM, Blizzard, to keep the environment at a happy medium would be more beneficial to them, and the player base as a whole. In a game that's designed around story-driven PvE with the option of PvP, I feel that PKers // Griefers and MFers // Farmers are deviants to the scale of Diablo II's gameplay. How few do the PKers number versus the people who play the game from start to finish? Appealing to balance of the game, the GM must make a decision... allow the outliers to continue to cause grief to those who wish to play the game normally, or create a fair and balanced game that prevent the deviants to become too far segregated from the game that the purpose is lost for them?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Have you even read what Bashiok has said about it?
Screw indication, he flat out said they don't like griefers.
Sure PKing was preventable, at great expense of the cooperative gameplay experience.
Sack up and stop crying because PK is going to be removed. :rolleyes: Isn't it fun to try to insult eachother on our beliefs over a game?
Some community manager says he doesn't like griefers so everyone should assume PK is out in D3? Right... I wouldn't put my money on that.
You act like using the custom game features is some kind of huge burden on cooperative play. I got a HUGE news flash for you. It actually helps cooperative play. Why?
Here's a two major reasons for you:
Private games with friends
Level restrictions keep unwanted high level players out.
It's nice not being stuck having to join public games all the time. I can actually group with my friends and avoid unwanted hostile players? WOW HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. WOW HUGE BURDEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at all the people who play on WoW PVP realms. It's close to 50/50. Fact is: People who want PK totally out of the game are an annoying vocal minority and nothing more. Move along.
Now, that being said... if Blizzard created realms specifically designed for PvX specific gameplay... it would show that the "outliers" on the game scale aren't really outliers at all in Blizzard's Diablo franchise. And if that is the case, I will gladly apologize for my errors.
Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing that the Diablo franchise was made with the PKers in mind.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Some community manager says he doesn't like griefers so everyone should assume PK is out in D3? Right... I wouldn't put my money on that.
You act like using the custom game features is some kind of huge burden on cooperative play. I got a HUGE news flash for you. It actually helps cooperative play. Why?
Here's a two major reasons for you:
Private games with friends
Level restrictions keep unwanted high level players out.
It's nice not being stuck having to join public games all the time. I can actually group with my friends and avoid unwanted hostile players? WOW HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. WOW HUGE BURDEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at all the people who play on WoW PVP realms. It's close to 50/50. Fact is: People who want PK totally out of the game are an annoying vocal minority and nothing more. Move along.
Good night.
I think it's safe to say that the World of Warcraft game, and the Warcraft Franchise differ greatly from the Diablo franchise. Warcraft itself was designed specifically around PvP. Same with Starcraft. Diablo, however, was not.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Now, that being said... if Blizzard created realms specifically designed for PvX specific gameplay... it would show that the "outliers" on the game scale aren't really outliers at all in Blizzard's Diablo franchise. And if that is the case, I will gladly apologize for my errors.
Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing that the Diablo franchise was made with the PKers in mind.
From the very first post of this thread.
READ THIS:
Originally Posted by Max Schaefer, Senior Designer of Blizzard North But we've decided that PKing is part of the Diablo universe. We are well aware that this does not please everyone. However, you are right: we are not apologetic about it. Not at all. Sure, we could implement a PK switch. It's a trivial coding task. But we wouldn't be being true to ourselves, and our goals as gamemakers.[/QUOTE]
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Some community manager says he doesn't like griefers so everyone should assume PK is out in D3? Right... I wouldn't put my money on that.
You act like using the custom game features is some kind of huge burden on cooperative play. I got a HUGE news flash for you. It actually helps cooperative play. Why?
Here's a two major reasons for you:
Private games with friends
Level restrictions keep unwanted high level players out.
It's nice not being stuck having to join public games all the time. I can actually group with my friends and avoid unwanted hostile players? WOW HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. WOW HUGE BURDEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at all the people who play on WoW PVP realms. It's close to 50/50. Fact is: People who want PK totally out of the game are an annoying vocal minority and nothing more. Move along.
Good night.
Bashiok didn't just speak for himself, he said:
Quote from "Bashiok »
[U]We're[/U] - in general - not big [U]fans[/U] of griefing for any game. It's really only "fun" for one person, and that definition of fun isn't generally something [U]we're[/U'] going to want to encourage. It's far more positive to encourage and support meaningful and skillful options and systems within a game, than a mechanic for people to instantly turn against one another for no meaningful gameplay reasons.
If another developer didn't like this statement something would of been said or his post edited.
It's hard to make private games with friends when you can't make friends do to games being interrupted by PKs...
You just shot yourself in the foot. Thanks for proving this.
3,608,091 Non-PvP total
2,406,074 PvP total
50/50? Try again. That's over 1 million more people on Non-PvP.
Sure WE'RE the annoying vocal minority... :rolleyes:
Sweet dreams about killing puppies or whatever it is PKs dream about.
I think it's safe to say that the World of Warcraft game, and the Warcraft Franchise differ greatly from the Diablo franchise. Warcraft itself was designed specifically around PvP. Same with Starcraft. Diablo, however, was not.
That's why when you were killed by another player your ear dropped? Okay sure what ever you say. I guess the hostile button never really was mean't for PvP huh????
That's why when you were killed by another player your ear dropped? Okay sure what ever you say. I guess the hostile button never really was mean't for PvP huh????
PvP is vastly different from PKing and griefing, you and everyone else knows that.
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Do I really need to elaborate?
Learn to play. 6-7 people could easily kill a hammerdin.
But your logic is flawed... rules sets in RPGs are designed to create and maintain a fair and balanced game to provide enjoyment out of everyone. PKing is neither fair nor balanced... therefore rule sets will be implicated.
You can play WoW all day long, but you'll never convince Blizzard to allow Priest Turn Undead spells to damage the Forsaken... it's neither fair nor balanced to the entire player base.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
If every one of them just so happened to be using characters with PvP builds and were a decent enough level to stand a chance. But of course, I'm sure every game you've ever played, the characters have always been of optimum builds, with optimum gear and optimum levels, so you've never had to worry about a thing.
Cheers,
SmashBoy (now who's living in a dream world?)
hammah of zeh skillsz.
Yeah when he hostiles them and pops through his own town portal and begins to spam hammers that do around 11k non elemental AOE damage while they're fighting a boss, you're right they TOTALLY could have easily killed him. :rolleyes:
When you're focused on a boss, the last thing you expect is someone to hop on through the town portal and begin to spam hammers.
O.o O.O o.O
How is my logic flawed? RPGs are based on choices. A PK chooses to go hostile. You, player have any number of tools at your disposal to deal with the threat. Regardless of gear, level, skill.
That's what what made D2 awesome and that's what made WoW awesome. Blizzard would have done away with any sort of "PKing" a long time ago if they didn't think it fit into there version of what an "RPG" is
CLASSIC RPG's are based on choices. New RPG's are based on choices you can make depending on gameplay and what is severely liked/disliked.
If something is severely disliked, it will be fixed or removed.
I think it would require a stringent amount of attention from Blizzard to make PKing STRICTLY within the game's bounds, and only within the game's bounds. Otherwise everything that we truly hated about PKing in D2 will crop up in D3.
I'm a huge PK/Dueler, still am in fact. But when people start screwing with game mechanics with third party mods, it ruins what PKing was supposed to be. Those mods were not put in by the designers, hence they would not have played with them, hence it ruins the game.
Anyways... I like the pk element in games. you have the choice to make solo games. It's up to the player.
That's why Blizzard makes the best games. Both sides still have options.
PK was completely preventable in D2 (bugs/hacks excluded)
WoW had PvE and PvP servers.
If that past is any indication of what D3 will hold, I'd sack up and stop crying about it already.
/facepalm
Have you even read what Bashiok has said about it?
Screw indication, he flat out said they don't like griefers.
Sure PKing was preventable, at great expense of the cooperative gameplay experience.
Sack up and stop crying because PK is going to be removed. :rolleyes: Isn't it fun to try to insult eachother based on our beliefs of a game?
While I will agree that, through I hated it, WoW's world PvP was a brilliant design on Blizzard's behalf. What I feel is a top reason the game sold so well was the utter enmity between the Horde and the Alliance. World PvP did nothing more than to propigate that. That's fine and well, I'll accept that.
I'll also concede that RPGs are based on player choices. However I feel that inhibiting certain player choices by our GM, Blizzard, to keep the environment at a happy medium would be more beneficial to them, and the player base as a whole. In a game that's designed around story-driven PvE with the option of PvP, I feel that PKers // Griefers and MFers // Farmers are deviants to the scale of Diablo II's gameplay. How few do the PKers number versus the people who play the game from start to finish? Appealing to balance of the game, the GM must make a decision... allow the outliers to continue to cause grief to those who wish to play the game normally, or create a fair and balanced game that prevent the deviants to become too far segregated from the game that the purpose is lost for them?
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Some community manager says he doesn't like griefers so everyone should assume PK is out in D3? Right... I wouldn't put my money on that.
You act like using the custom game features is some kind of huge burden on cooperative play. I got a HUGE news flash for you. It actually helps cooperative play. Why?
Here's a two major reasons for you:
Private games with friends
Level restrictions keep unwanted high level players out.
It's nice not being stuck having to join public games all the time. I can actually group with my friends and avoid unwanted hostile players? WOW HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. WOW HUGE BURDEN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
LOOK: Want some real numbers?
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php
Look at all the people who play on WoW PVP realms. It's close to 50/50. Fact is: People who want PK totally out of the game are an annoying vocal minority and nothing more. Move along.
Good night.
Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing that the Diablo franchise was made with the PKers in mind.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
I think it's safe to say that the World of Warcraft game, and the Warcraft Franchise differ greatly from the Diablo franchise. Warcraft itself was designed specifically around PvP. Same with Starcraft. Diablo, however, was not.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
From the very first post of this thread.
READ THIS:
Originally Posted by Max Schaefer, Senior Designer of Blizzard North
But we've decided that PKing is part of the Diablo universe. We are well aware that this does not please everyone. However, you are right: we are not apologetic about it. Not at all. Sure, we could implement a PK switch. It's a trivial coding task. But we wouldn't be being true to ourselves, and our goals as gamemakers.[/QUOTE]
If another developer didn't like this statement something would of been said or his post edited.
It's hard to make private games with friends when you can't make friends do to games being interrupted by PKs...
You just shot yourself in the foot. Thanks for proving this.
3,608,091 Non-PvP total
2,406,074 PvP total
50/50? Try again. That's over 1 million more people on Non-PvP.
Sure WE'RE the annoying vocal minority... :rolleyes:
Sweet dreams about killing puppies or whatever it is PKs dream about.
Isn't that the OLD developer...?
That's why when you were killed by another player your ear dropped? Okay sure what ever you say. I guess the hostile button never really was mean't for PvP huh????
PvP is vastly different from PKing and griefing, you and everyone else knows that.