This is the exact point i'm trying to make, if some skills are being brought down to 5, or 10, its obvious they're less for a reason, and everyone will end up getting them no matter which build they get because they are less of an investment.
And to the comments about telekinesis and Teleport, Did you ever max them, i know i didn't but the option was there. Just because the points are available doesn't mean they must be put there.
Yes, my lightning sorc does have telekinesis maxed due to the synergy with energy shield.
I've also had a fire sorc who had 15 devoted to tele so she could outduel orb sorcs who only placed 1 in tele.
The way I see it, is maybe they learned from D2 and how the players invested in skill points. How many people played a Sorc and didn't invest in Teleport and Warmth? Or how many Paladins didn't atleast put one point into vigor so they could run around fast if need be.
These 5 point skills could be these essential skills that regardless of what build you are making, you will want. I believe that Blizzard has paid attention to what the community does in D2 and is using that for changes.
I am pretty sure those little divisions (which I found pretty boring and not worth dividing) will still be available as well.
If you didn't find them worth dividing, you obviously didn't understand builds in the first place.
If my sin is pheonix user, I don't want to be bunked up with kickers because we use the same tree. Why? Because the playstyle is so completely different, and the stat allocation for every build is so different that one person using skills in the martial arts tree to the next can not possibly be the same.
i agree COMPLETELY with everything veritech017 has said. hes a smart guy...you people should listen to him more closely ;). I'm glad SOMEONE understands the style behind diablo that made it so good. this is the one thing that if they screw up, could really hurt the game for me.
I really hope they stay away from making one skill unusable if you have points in another. I want to have access to every skill on a character regardless of which others I have. I was glad they didn't do it in the first one, and really hope they don't do it in this one.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you played D2.
But it's really hard, because.. I just ran 15 baal runs in a row with someone who didn't even have skill points placed and no one ever said a word about it.
The way Diablo gameplay works is that even the most ruined craptastic build can still be feasible, however you may just be making the game more difficult for yourself.
As to the topic, boo on less ability to customise skills. Half of the game was putting fore-thought into your build.
In D2 you can gain a total of 110 skill points by 99. That's a fairly decent amount. If just 4 skills per tree where converted to maxing at 10, you could easily grab all the super powerful stuff from every tree and have maxed synergies for them. That would basically turn everyone into the same class. Why be a smitadin when you could be a smitadin AND a hammerdin, or why be a minionmancer when you can be a poisonmancer at the same time.
I fail to see how this would be an improvement, unless you enjoy cookie-cutter classes.
you are assuming that you will be able to max out a number of trees and the classes will fail to have original builds, yet we don't know:
a. the amount of skills available.
b. the number of trees available to each class.
c. the number of skills in a given tree.
d. if there will by synergies (which I'm almost certain there will be)
e. Anything about skills at all other than 5/5 seems to be the max.
you are assuming that you will be able to max out a number of trees and the classes will fail to have original builds, yet we don't know:
a. the amount of skills available.
b. the number of trees available to each class.
c. the number of skills in a given tree.
d. if there will by synergies (which I'm almost certain there will be)
e. Anything about skills at all other than 5/5 seems to be the max.
I can assume there will be 98 skill points minimum, if not this game is heading down a path I'm not sure it would recover from. They may skip the skill point quests, but honestly the quests in Diablo 2 were worth doing because of the permanent rewards to you and not a piece of gear you would replace in 2 levels anyways. So I really hope they keep that system.
In order to keep the system of character customization in builds that D2 had, they would need to add a ton of skills per tree (if they use trees, which I assume they would) in order to keep people from maxing every skill in every tree.
you are assuming that you will be able to max out a number of trees and the classes will fail to have original builds, yet we don't know:
a. the amount of skills available.
b. the number of trees available to each class.
c. the number of skills in a given tree.
d. if there will by synergies (which I'm almost certain there will be)
e. Anything about skills at all other than 5/5 seems to be the max.
5/5 is NOT the max...they have some that are 1/1, 5/5, 10/10, and 20/20....i see your point here...but people can still express their concern and talk about it, as it is one of the most important things in the game...personally graphics changing take a back seat for me when it comes to the skills...they are much more important.
I can assume there will be 98 skill points minimum, if not this game is heading down a path I'm not sure it would recover from. They may skip the skill point quests, but honestly the quests in Diablo 2 were worth doing because of the permanent rewards to you and not a piece of gear you would replace in 2 levels anyways. So I really hope they keep that system.
In order to keep the system of character customization in builds that D2 had, they would need to add a ton of skills per tree (if they use trees, which I assume they would) in order to keep people from maxing every skill in every tree.
we don't even know if there will be 99 levels in diablo2... though it does seem likely.
We can assume they will use trees, and I'm going to assume that they have indeed added a bunch of skills per tree.
I also think from my pure speculation of them having more skills, and maybe more trees per class, is that we will see an even wider variety of builds than D2.
Yea it totally sux how they aren't copying D2 skills into D3. I mean thats totally what they did with D1 to D2 right? Oh wait...
The game is in pre-alpha, stop freaking out.
Yes, we should all save our comments until release! This would be the most perfect time in which Blizzard could change their game.
Edit:
Also there were no skills in Diablo. Only spells.
The reason Diablo 2 has skill trees is because they didn't want every class being fundamentally the same. This was the case in Diablo, a rogue was just as efficient as a warrior in melee combat with the proper stat placement.
This is why I'm noting my opinion on trees with 1/1 skills or 5/5 skills or whatever they make the max on some of the skills. I enjoyed the class within a class approach to character design in Diablo 2. It's something I'd like to see in Diablo 3.
we don't even know if there will be 99 levels in diablo2... though it does seem likely.
We can assume they will use trees, and I'm going to assume that they have indeed added a bunch of skills per tree.
I also think from my pure speculation of them having more skills, and maybe more trees per class, is that we will see an even wider variety of builds than D2.
If they keep with their current direction, I hope you're right.
Yes, we should all save our comments until release! This would be the most perfect time in which Blizzard could change their game.
haha, I believe what hes trying to say is that we know so little about the skill system as it stands right now that our own suggestions are like shots in the dark. Alpha testing and Beta tests are usually when class and skill balancing comes into play. I'm not saying to not voice your opinion or make suggestions, I just find it hard to believe that so many people can make suggestions and form clear opinions on the very little information we have.
I'm guilty, I like to assume things ahead of time, but I will withhold any critisism of the skill system until I see more of how it will be implemented in D3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Yes, my lightning sorc does have telekinesis maxed due to the synergy with energy shield.
I've also had a fire sorc who had 15 devoted to tele so she could outduel orb sorcs who only placed 1 in tele.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
These 5 point skills could be these essential skills that regardless of what build you are making, you will want. I believe that Blizzard has paid attention to what the community does in D2 and is using that for changes.
If you didn't find them worth dividing, you obviously didn't understand builds in the first place.
If my sin is pheonix user, I don't want to be bunked up with kickers because we use the same tree. Why? Because the playstyle is so completely different, and the stat allocation for every build is so different that one person using skills in the martial arts tree to the next can not possibly be the same.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
And if Tele was only a 1-5 point skill, you're insight would be wasted because everyone would be the same in that field.
Combos of things are not original. Neither are skills that do the same thing with varying side effects.
Then let's remove all classes and all skills. You get attack and fireball, now go out and be somebody.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
you are assuming that you will be able to max out a number of trees and the classes will fail to have original builds, yet we don't know:
a. the amount of skills available.
b. the number of trees available to each class.
c. the number of skills in a given tree.
d. if there will by synergies (which I'm almost certain there will be)
e. Anything about skills at all other than 5/5 seems to be the max.
The Barbarian would appear to have Masteries, Skills, and possibly Battle order type skills.
So your going to be able to play around with your skills.
I can assume there will be 98 skill points minimum, if not this game is heading down a path I'm not sure it would recover from. They may skip the skill point quests, but honestly the quests in Diablo 2 were worth doing because of the permanent rewards to you and not a piece of gear you would replace in 2 levels anyways. So I really hope they keep that system.
In order to keep the system of character customization in builds that D2 had, they would need to add a ton of skills per tree (if they use trees, which I assume they would) in order to keep people from maxing every skill in every tree.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
5/5 is NOT the max...they have some that are 1/1, 5/5, 10/10, and 20/20....i see your point here...but people can still express their concern and talk about it, as it is one of the most important things in the game...personally graphics changing take a back seat for me when it comes to the skills...they are much more important.
we don't even know if there will be 99 levels in diablo2... though it does seem likely.
We can assume they will use trees, and I'm going to assume that they have indeed added a bunch of skills per tree.
I also think from my pure speculation of them having more skills, and maybe more trees per class, is that we will see an even wider variety of builds than D2.
The game is in pre-alpha, stop freaking out.
Yes, we should all save our comments until release! This would be the most perfect time in which Blizzard could change their game.
Edit:
Also there were no skills in Diablo. Only spells.
The reason Diablo 2 has skill trees is because they didn't want every class being fundamentally the same. This was the case in Diablo, a rogue was just as efficient as a warrior in melee combat with the proper stat placement.
This is why I'm noting my opinion on trees with 1/1 skills or 5/5 skills or whatever they make the max on some of the skills. I enjoyed the class within a class approach to character design in Diablo 2. It's something I'd like to see in Diablo 3.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
If they keep with their current direction, I hope you're right.
However the balancing job would be brutal.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
haha, I believe what hes trying to say is that we know so little about the skill system as it stands right now that our own suggestions are like shots in the dark. Alpha testing and Beta tests are usually when class and skill balancing comes into play. I'm not saying to not voice your opinion or make suggestions, I just find it hard to believe that so many people can make suggestions and form clear opinions on the very little information we have.
I'm guilty, I like to assume things ahead of time, but I will withhold any critisism of the skill system until I see more of how it will be implemented in D3.