I don't know if this has been brought up before, i'm sure it has been at least mentioned somewhere. However, what bugs me about the skills in diablo 3, is that its not 0/20 across the board like in D2, there are 0/5 0/10 0/20 Skills, similar to the WoW talent trees.
Yes i know it puts me in the category of "zomg too much like WoW" but really its just my preference. One thing i loved about D2 was the ability to pump skills up to rediculous amounts. Another fear is that they may do away with + to skills, so we won't see 30/20 or 10/5 type skills...
Anyone else have a similar or opposite opinnion, i'd like to hear it.
-Dart
100/20 = 5
100/5 = 10
Either way, they all make up 100 somehow. My point is, the potential of each skill seems to be the same, it's just that the frequency of leveling is different. But it's still proportional.
Yeah different builds that soon become a must build that is the only one that works and I can't imagine being asked what is your build everytime I join a game.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you played D2.
But it's really hard, because.. I just ran 15 baal runs in a row with someone who didn't even have skill points placed and no one ever said a word about it.
The way Diablo gameplay works is that even the most ruined craptastic build can still be feasible, however you may just be making the game more difficult for yourself.
As to the topic, boo on less ability to customise skills. Half of the game was putting fore-thought into your build.
In D2 you can gain a total of 110 skill points by 99. That's a fairly decent amount. If just 4 skills per tree where converted to maxing at 10, you could easily grab all the super powerful stuff from every tree and have maxed synergies for them. That would basically turn everyone into the same class. Why be a smitadin when you could be a smitadin AND a hammerdin, or why be a minionmancer when you can be a poisonmancer at the same time.
I fail to see how this would be an improvement, unless you enjoy cookie-cutter classes.
A skill maxed at 5/5 would not equal 20/20. It would equal 5/20 or whatever they would decide. They can decrease the amount of skill points you get, and they will deprive you of improving certain skills to a certain point. Imagine bone spear maxed at 5 instead of 20. This would destroy bonemancers. That's sort of what they are doing.
I hear ya loud and clear! My BIGGEST FEAR, is that they will have a skill tree that is dumbed down (and quit saying trust blizzard...developers, even blizzard, do make mistakes people!), and doesn't allow for many different builds.
as my brother says, "i like having 20 points as a max cause it really feels like you are pumping into that skill and getting really good."....i agree with this so much! id prefer all the skills stay at 20 as the max, but if they change it, there better be enough skills (more than thirty), or less points (diablo 2 had 110 in all) to get...as one person said, isn't blizzard going for the idea of feeling unique? I certainly would not feel unique if all the other people with my class had the same damn skills.
Either way, they all make up 100 somehow. My point is, the potential of each skill seems to be the same, it's just that the frequency of leveling is different. But it's still proportional.
So... do I need to correct this for you, or is it time for bed?
I hear ya loud and clear! My BIGGEST FEAR, is that they will have a skill tree that is dumbed down (and quit saying trust blizzard...developers, even blizzard, do make mistakes people!), and doesn't allow for many different builds.
It's not like DII permitted a lot of builds. For necro, it was poison, bone, and summon. That's it. I don't know where you saw "a lot of builds". Of course, you can interchange them but the basic point is still the same - most feasible DII builds are not numerous. Leaving all those pointless skill maxes only gives room for new people who don't read cookie cutter builds to make random mistakes because they don't know what a skill does and they can't respec. I don't see the point of that.
I love how people assume the skill trees are going to be similar to D2's and that there won't be more options. I also love when people panic when they see 5/5 skill points maxing out a skill, since WoW was the first game to use less than 20 points per skill.
Listen, we don't know what the skill trees look like, how skills will be implemented, how man different trees there are... etc.
my question is: what is the level system? 99 tops?
some may ask, whats that go do with this thread: it can heavily influence how many skills you can max just like in D2, although some skills maybe 5 max and some 10 max, blizzard will undoubtly make some sort of system to balance that, wiether it be level 80 max or what have you.
3 or more builds per character is still a wide variety of builds... But you gotta think, while the Necro might not have had a wide variety of builds, look at it the other way, how many did the Sorc have?
Also, are we already assuming that Synergies are in the game? Because that will drastically change things around.
It's not like DII permitted a lot of builds. For necro, it was poison, bone, and summon. That's it. I don't know where you saw "a lot of builds". Of course, you can interchange them but the basic point is still the same - most feasible DII builds are not numerous. Leaving all those pointless skill maxes only gives room for new people who don't read cookie cutter builds to make random mistakes because they don't know what a skill does and they can't respec. I don't see the point of that.
Eh, you're oversimplifying builds. There are skelemancers, golem mancers, revive necros, poison nova, bone spear necro, teeth necro, bone spirit necro.
Builds where more about what skill(s) you specialised in.
A skill maxed at 5/5 would not equal 20/20. It would equal 5/20 or whatever they would decide. They can decrease the amount of skill points you get, and they will deprive you of improving certain skills to a certain point. Imagine bone spear maxed at 5 instead of 20. This would destroy bonemancers. That's sort of what they are doing.
uhh well it depends on how blizzard gives the skill value. And we don't know that. But I'm guessing a max 5/5 skill is at the same level as a 20/20 skill. Maybe the 5/5 skill is an ultimate and levels at 1/4 the rate.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you played D2.
But it's really hard, because.. I just ran 15 baal runs in a row with someone who didn't even have skill points placed and no one ever said a word about it.
The way Diablo gameplay works is that even the most ruined craptastic build can still be feasible, however you may just be making the game more difficult for yourself.
As to the topic, boo on less ability to customise skills. Half of the game was putting fore-thought into your build.
In D2 you can gain a total of 110 skill points by 99. That's a fairly decent amount. If just 4 skills per tree where converted to maxing at 10, you could easily grab all the super powerful stuff from every tree and have maxed synergies for them. That would basically turn everyone into the same class. Why be a smitadin when you could be a smitadin AND a hammerdin, or why be a minionmancer when you can be a poisonmancer at the same time.
I fail to see how this would be an improvement, unless you enjoy cookie-cutter classes.
This is the exact point i'm trying to make, if some skills are being brought down to 5, or 10, its obvious they're less for a reason, and everyone will end up getting them no matter which build they get because they are less of an investment.
And to the comments about telekinesis and Teleport, Did you ever max them, i know i didn't but the option was there. Just because the points are available doesn't mean they must be put there.
Eh, you're oversimplifying builds. There are skelemancers, golem mancers, revive necros, poison nova, bone spear necro, teeth necro, bone spirit necro.
Builds where more about what skill(s) you specialised in.
EXACTLY....equinox obviously doesnt understand how diablo 2 works. corpse explosion is also very good for the necro. paladins have hamerdins, smiteadins, zeal and fanat, zeal and conviction, vengeance and conviction, zeal and holy thunder, and so on and so forth.
Ah, sad how I've watched that like 20 times and I never even noticed that about the skills.
100/20 = 5
100/5 = 10
Either way, they all make up 100 somehow. My point is, the potential of each skill seems to be the same, it's just that the frequency of leveling is different. But it's still proportional.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you played D2.
But it's really hard, because.. I just ran 15 baal runs in a row with someone who didn't even have skill points placed and no one ever said a word about it.
The way Diablo gameplay works is that even the most ruined craptastic build can still be feasible, however you may just be making the game more difficult for yourself.
As to the topic, boo on less ability to customise skills. Half of the game was putting fore-thought into your build.
In D2 you can gain a total of 110 skill points by 99. That's a fairly decent amount. If just 4 skills per tree where converted to maxing at 10, you could easily grab all the super powerful stuff from every tree and have maxed synergies for them. That would basically turn everyone into the same class. Why be a smitadin when you could be a smitadin AND a hammerdin, or why be a minionmancer when you can be a poisonmancer at the same time.
I fail to see how this would be an improvement, unless you enjoy cookie-cutter classes.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
as my brother says, "i like having 20 points as a max cause it really feels like you are pumping into that skill and getting really good."....i agree with this so much! id prefer all the skills stay at 20 as the max, but if they change it, there better be enough skills (more than thirty), or less points (diablo 2 had 110 in all) to get...as one person said, isn't blizzard going for the idea of feeling unique? I certainly would not feel unique if all the other people with my class had the same damn skills.
So... do I need to correct this for you, or is it time for bed?
Listen, we don't know what the skill trees look like, how skills will be implemented, how man different trees there are... etc.
some may ask, whats that go do with this thread: it can heavily influence how many skills you can max just like in D2, although some skills maybe 5 max and some 10 max, blizzard will undoubtly make some sort of system to balance that, wiether it be level 80 max or what have you.
This petition is to KEEP the current art direction
Good Job Blizzard. Stay on Track
Yawn. Call me once the game is released.
Also, are we already assuming that Synergies are in the game? Because that will drastically change things around.
Eh, you're oversimplifying builds. There are skelemancers, golem mancers, revive necros, poison nova, bone spear necro, teeth necro, bone spirit necro.
Builds where more about what skill(s) you specialised in.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
uhh well it depends on how blizzard gives the skill value. And we don't know that. But I'm guessing a max 5/5 skill is at the same level as a 20/20 skill. Maybe the 5/5 skill is an ultimate and levels at 1/4 the rate.
Everyone should realize that it's entertaining to speculate about what maybe and how you would like it.
This is the exact point i'm trying to make, if some skills are being brought down to 5, or 10, its obvious they're less for a reason, and everyone will end up getting them no matter which build they get because they are less of an investment.
And to the comments about telekinesis and Teleport, Did you ever max them, i know i didn't but the option was there. Just because the points are available doesn't mean they must be put there.
EXACTLY....equinox obviously doesnt understand how diablo 2 works. corpse explosion is also very good for the necro. paladins have hamerdins, smiteadins, zeal and fanat, zeal and conviction, vengeance and conviction, zeal and holy thunder, and so on and so forth.
BUILDS ARE VERY VERY VERY important.
oh oops, 20.
speculation is one thing, but getting bent out of shape is another,