I just wonder what's better next season ww or ik? For grifts...
I think it is still going to be the IK-Raekor setup. That being said, we will have to wait and see the rest of the tuning, and other items added. A lot of changes in legendary gems greatly impact things as well.
Yes, but you misread what I wrote. It is bad design if you need a ring to even compete in T10, let alone high GR`s. If a set is so weak, that you need a ring to do what most other sets can do with mediocre gear, then it is "bad design".
The set should be buffed as is, and THEN you should have the choice of a ring or whatever other slot. The set is way too weak and has been for a long time, compared to other sets. Which is my point, not that you HAVE to have that legendary, cause its that way with basically every build. 6pc power of basically every other set > WW set. A lot of other sets have a multitude of uses and builds, and are not limited to a single damage dealing skill , that deals 1/10th of what every other set does.
Almost every set has extra items needed to be T10 viable in one way or another. They just do. T7, maybe T8 or even T9 are doable, but the latter ones most assuredly not in good time. Just finishing the fullset from the Season Journey without supporting items seldom lets you do T10 straight away. I'm being cautious, because I haven't played every single build this season (more games to play, other things to do), so I could be off about one or two. Still, thinking WW is the only set that needs complementary items to do T10 is just plain wrong.
It is the only set that needs a 4x multiplier item in addition to all other supporting items. Tell me one other set that needs a x4 multiplier to even do T10? Right, noone. I have a wizard, and firebird/tal rasha set can pretty much do T10 speed with non ancient, non optimal gear. No need for CoE + FnR and ancient weapon on any of them to do T10 reasonably fast. My flash fire wizard/Spectral blade wizard, UE DH etc hits for billions upon billions continously, and my WW barb crits for a few hundred millions max. Rend ticks for like 70-80m with 2x2.9k dmg BK set. Flash fire wizard crits for 5-6B with explosive blast, and the 3k% firebird burn ticks for 3B+.
1200+ paragon, full ancient WW barb, with 2x2.9k BK weapons, FnR, CoE in cube, and I still spend 1+min on T10 RG alone. Every set needs complementary items for builds, difference is WW barb can`t do T10 with the same BIS items as other classes do GR80+ with.
You still don`t get what I am saying. Yes, every build/class/set needs all kinds of shit, difference is, they don`t need a 4x multiplier ontop of every other item like CoE/FnR like every class has, to do T10. If we gave wizards or Marauder DH`s a 4x multiplier they`d break GR100 solo probably, and not "break" T10 lol.
I don't think that that's enough, honestly. Wastes set is really bad right now.
You cannot ignore TRIPLE REND damage in this scenario. Plus any future items. You have become the most INSIDE the box poster here, you were never like this before, wtf is going on Shapookya?
what's with you and your box?
triple rend dmg is nice and fun, but I don't think it's that powerful. Right now, rend dmg is so negligible that those builds, that use WW set, don't even use rend. triple of almost nothing is still not much.
It might be nice in a 6IK+4Wastes build, though, because there it's 15x more rend dmg. But in the end, you'll still have to stop using WW, which makes you vulnerable. We'll see.
My point regarding you is that you were more of a unique mind here for many years. Now you are more "this is the game, deal with it". Quite frankly, I hate people like that.
Regarding the topic: I think that triple rend with lamentation could be enough sustain damage to really give WW a boost. Add in multiplicative SG, and potentially 1 more legendary that applies rend for you when you hit with ww and increases rends damage by 60%, and you have something. That is sort of what I mean by "the box". You cannot just look at what current content is and say something is impossible, thats the least likely thing in the gaming industry.
I disagree completely Shapookya, we do not have ALL of the additions in PTR yet, so therefore making any assumption is irrelevant based on your description....
The target audience of this game is not what you think it is. They are not looking to target the "casual of the casual". They are trying their best to interact with ALL AUDIENCE TYPES, as proven by hundreds of interviews and said game features. For instance, Paragon is an introduction for the true hardcore players to continue to grind. So are many of the cube features. For casuals, you get to level 1-70 each season, farm up some new legendary gear, and maybe complete the season journey, but rarely. Casuals have the option of not playing seasons, due to split functionality between season and non season.
Therefore, you are dropping the ball in every sense of the definition. Blizzard caters to ALL players, not just one specified audience which is what you claim to be fact.
So then I ask you again, if "End Game" is simply paragon and despair augment gear, is that sufficient end game for the true die hard fans? I say no, paragon is flawed in functionality. Augment gear is very nice however, as it could be targeted by many audience bases who play the game, and has an infinite scaling system, which is GREAT for die hards, but it also is infinite in a way that makes sense.
If I had to make a prediction, augment gear was created to replace paragon main stat +800, but they first wanted to gauge reactions to augment gear first.
Either way, the topic is how good can WW be because Skull Grasp is multiplicative. The answer is undefined atm, because we do not have enough data, though we can "assume" that it will perform BETTER, than it currently does.
What about dust doing 4k weapon dmg and ring gives it 2x dmg = 8k weapon dmg? So set itself is buffed toi then...
Personally I do not like it. I think Dust Devils should either A, be removed from the set and have it focus purely on WW and Rend or B, continue to be a stand alone that is only buffed by elemental damage (physical), and your basic damage buffs.
My guess is that they want to do A, because having Rend in the set makes little sense with the AOE functionality of Dust Devils. Dust Devils was a quick/temporary fix to help Wrath of the Wastes perform better. I think this PTR patch is going to see several renditions and changes to Wrath, and we see a finalized version of it in season 7, where it is then ready for simple tuning due to power creep.
I like what a poster above (celey) suggested about a bracer addition though I think 5% reduction and boost is far to much. I would instead go with something like 1%, maybe even 1/2% because if you stack a group of lets say 50 enemies together, getting 250% damage reduction and damage is a bit OP. I guess you could simply put a limit on it of 100% damage and 50% damage reduction, and leave it at 5% for simplicity of use?
Takeing Dust Devils out of set and just buffing ww dmg is so stupid. That' s the only reason why that set is fun anf you can just play ik ww barb if u want pure ww dmg. Now stop trolling...
Yes, but you misread what I wrote. It is bad design if you need a ring to even compete in T10, let alone high GR`s. If a set is so weak, that you need a ring to do what most other sets can do with mediocre gear, then it is "bad design".
The set should be buffed as is, and THEN you should have the choice of a ring or whatever other slot. The set is way too weak and has been for a long time, compared to other sets. Which is my point, not that you HAVE to have that legendary, cause its that way with basically every build. 6pc power of basically every other set > WW set. A lot of other sets have a multitude of uses and builds, and are not limited to a single damage dealing skill , that deals 1/10th of what every other set does.
Almost every set has extra items needed to be T10 viable in one way or another. They just do. T7, maybe T8 or even T9 are doable, but the latter ones most assuredly not in good time. Just finishing the fullset from the Season Journey without supporting items seldom lets you do T10 straight away. I'm being cautious, because I haven't played every single build this season (more games to play, other things to do), so I could be off about one or two. Still, thinking WW is the only set that needs complementary items to do T10 is just plain wrong.
It is the only set that needs a 4x multiplier item in addition to all other supporting items. Tell me one other set that needs a x4 multiplier to even do T10? Right, noone. I have a wizard, and firebird/tal rasha set can pretty much do T10 speed with non ancient, non optimal gear. No need for CoE + FnR and ancient weapon on any of them to do T10 reasonably fast. My flash fire wizard/Spectral blade wizard, UE DH etc hits for billions upon billions continously, and my WW barb crits for a few hundred millions max. Rend ticks for like 70-80m with 2x2.9k dmg BK set. Flash fire wizard crits for 5-6B with explosive blast, and the 3k% firebird burn ticks for 3B+.
1200+ paragon, full ancient WW barb, with 2x2.9k BK weapons, FnR, CoE in cube, and I still spend 1+min on T10 RG alone. Every set needs complementary items for builds, difference is WW barb can`t do T10 with the same BIS items as other classes do GR80+ with.
You still don`t get what I am saying. Yes, every build/class/set needs all kinds of shit, difference is, they don`t need a 4x multiplier ontop of every other item like CoE/FnR like every class has, to do T10. If we gave wizards or Marauder DH`s a 4x multiplier they`d break GR100 solo probably, and not "break" T10 lol.
Your flashfire Wizard actually HAS a 3x multuiplier, in the form of your wand. Vyr's has no way of staying alive properly without halo, or doing proper damage without Swami. DH's need specific weapons and quvers for their set to be properly T10 viable, otherwise, they;'re just slow. Nats needs F&R or the damage is pretty sad.
Just a couple of examples, yes?
And? My wizard doesn`t need the 3x multiplier to do T10 reasonably fast. It`s pretty obvious you don`t really know what you are talking about, as my FF wizard can do T10 just fine without the wand. You know why, because most mobs die from the first blast anyway, and any "multipliers" after that is just blasted into thin air. I tested without WoW, with twisted sword, and you know what? it still did T10 basically as fast as WoW. The only mob taking longer in T10 is the RG.
Vyr`s getting buffed. DH`s don`t 1 specific item to do T10. It will benefit from "specific" items, but it is not MANDATORY, like skull grasp is for WW barbs. DH will still do T10 pretty fast even with non optimal combos and different weapons. Maybe if you actually tried switching out a piece for something not for that build, and try T10 you`d see the same as I see. Nats is pretty crap yes.
It`s pretty obvious you just refuse to admit that a set that with the best BIS gear any other class can do T10(and even Gr70-80+ but for comparison) with, barely gets you above T8 "efficiently", is crap.
I`ve done GR70s with UE dh with manticore, and vice versa, and it still worked, albeit slower.
But whatever.
Almost every set has extra items needed to be T10 viable in one way or another. They just do. T7, maybe T8 or even T9 are doable, but the latter ones most assuredly not in good time. Just finishing the fullset from the Season Journey without supporting items seldom lets you do T10 straight away. I'm being cautious, because I haven't played every single build this season (more games to play, other things to do), so I could be off about one or two. Still, thinking WW is the only set that needs complementary items to do T10 is just plain wrong.
It is the only set that needs a 4x multiplier item in addition to all other supporting items. Tell me one other set that needs a x4 multiplier to even do T10? Right, noone. I have a wizard, and firebird/tal rasha set can pretty much do T10 speed with non ancient, non optimal gear. No need for CoE + FnR and ancient weapon on any of them to do T10 reasonably fast. My flash fire wizard/Spectral blade wizard, UE DH etc hits for billions upon billions continously, and my WW barb crits for a few hundred millions max. Rend ticks for like 70-80m with 2x2.9k dmg BK set. Flash fire wizard crits for 5-6B with explosive blast, and the 3k% firebird burn ticks for 3B+.
1200+ paragon, full ancient WW barb, with 2x2.9k BK weapons, FnR, CoE in cube, and I still spend 1+min on T10 RG alone. Every set needs complementary items for builds, difference is WW barb can`t do T10 with the same BIS items as other classes do GR80+ with.
You still don`t get what I am saying. Yes, every build/class/set needs all kinds of shit, difference is, they don`t need a 4x multiplier ontop of every other item like CoE/FnR like every class has, to do T10. If we gave wizards or Marauder DH`s a 4x multiplier they`d break GR100 solo probably, and not "break" T10 lol.
Your flashfire Wizard actually HAS a 3x multuiplier, in the form of your wand. Vyr's has no way of staying alive properly without halo, or doing proper damage without Swami. DH's need specific weapons and quvers for their set to be properly T10 viable, otherwise, they;'re just slow. Nats needs F&R or the damage is pretty sad.
Just a couple of examples, yes?
And? My wizard doesn`t need the 3x multiplier to do T10 reasonably fast. It`s pretty obvious you don`t really know what you are talking about, as my FF wizard can do T10 just fine without the wand. You know why, because most mobs die from the first blast anyway, and any "multipliers" after that is just blasted into thin air. I tested without WoW, with twisted sword, and you know what? it still did T10 basically as fast as WoW. The only mob taking longer in T10 is the RG.
Vyr`s getting buffed. DH`s don`t 1 specific item to do T10. It will benefit from "specific" items, but it is not MANDATORY, like skull grasp is for WW barbs. DH will still do T10 pretty fast even with non optimal combos and different weapons. Maybe if you actually tried switching out a piece for something not for that build, and try T10 you`d see the same as I see. Nats is pretty crap yes.
It`s pretty obvious you just refuse to admit that a set that with the best BIS gear any other class can do T10(and even Gr70-80+ but for comparison) with, barely gets you above T8 "efficiently", is crap.
I`ve done GR70s with UE dh with manticore, and vice versa, and it still worked, albeit slower.
But whatever.
And Whirlwind can do T10 just fine too without any support items, if you actually hit mobs with the Dust Devils. I've done so, I actually did the last Season as a WW Barb until I had a proper Gavel. I know perfectly fine what I'm talking about. I've played the specs. Besides, Flash Fire combines two sets, which is nowhere near fair, is it? It also uses F&R, which makes it ridiculous. Please don't bring up Flashfire, as it is a ridiculous combination of items which supplement each other. Every time you mention the word "combo", you mention a COMBINATION of items, meaning items to support the build. Whirlwind should get some buffs to be absolutely viable, probably. They can tune the set still, it is PTR.
You weren`t the only one who played WW barb last season you know. And you saying WW can do T10 just fine without any support items is just laughable. PLEASE upload a video of you playing WW barb with random weapons, no FnR, and doing T10 efficiently. I have 2k hours on barb, and I really don`t need your expertise in how to play the class and " to hit mobs with dust devils" lol.
So WW doesn`t need supporting items? How convenient for you that every other class needs supporting items, but WW doesn`t.
Skullgrasp is basically Raekors 4pc bonus. x4 multiplier for the skill. That's the problem with WW, because it doesn't have such a multiplier in its set.
6IK+Skullgrasp is: 400% (if you take fire rune) * 4 (Skullgrasp) * 5 (6pc IK) = 8000% weapon dmg channeled.
And I didn't even count ring bonuses you lose out on with skullgrasp. Looking at this, it wouldn't surprise me much to see a "WW deals 100% more dmg" built into 2pc or 4pc bonus of Wastes and an increase in %weapon dmg of 6pc bonus (so that 6pc wastes isn't a piece of trash).
Because, let's be honest here. That set needs a buff more in the area of a x10 multiplier to be competitive with other sets, than a x4 multiplier
Finally someone else realizing how insanely low damage WW does compared to all the other class sets. Also, with 6IK you might have the insanity rune giving another 50% damage.
Stop raging and being childish. Fair enough, WW needs support items to really shine and you just mentioned yourself other specs do too. The fact that WW is under performing is evident and it could use a buff on the set itself. In S4, WW was the only set that worked well and worked just fine for Solo play.
There are other specs not doing too great at T10 quickly as well, one of them actually being Delsere' s, the top Wizard spec for S5. There will ALWAYS be a better set than the others for a specific class for specific purposes. I would agree that it would be nice if they're reasonably close. But saying that other specs don't need support items is just wrong and you know it.
Where exactly was I raging and being childish? I am merely stating facts. WW needs to be buffed alot without support items! Delsere`s got tons of damage, and it can farm T10 reasonably fast and easy. My arcane orbit wiz crit like 15-20B without CoE, meaning I oneshot elite packs, and 2/3 shot RG with crits on T10. It might not have the movement speed, which you can ofc spec into if that is needed, but it still trumps WW set by quite a bit.
Show me where I said that other specs don`t need support items. What I said was that other classes aren`t depending on 1 single item to get them to T10. Because the sets are "increased damage" to "all" skills, so you can make whatever build you want not relying on 1 single item. My wizard can do T10 without WoW, T10 without unstable scepter, DH can do T10 without Yang`s Recurve and Manticore. It will ofc suffer a bit damage wise, but the damage will still be enough to kill stuff on T10 pretty fast.
My WW barb on PTR, 5.3M damage without WotB, yet dust devil hits for a measly 258m crit on a elite, with furnace cubed. Because WW set isn`t "increased damage" multiplier like literally every other set, its 2500% WEAPON damage. if it was changed to 2500% increased damage, the story would (probably, depending on mechanics)be very different.
1200+ paragon, full ancient WW barb, with 2x2.9k BK weapons, FnR, CoE in cube, and I still spend 1+min on T10 RG alone. Every set needs complementary items for builds, difference is WW barb can`t do T10 with the same BIS items as other classes do GR80+ with.
You still don`t get what I am saying. Yes, every build/class/set needs all kinds of shit, difference is, they don`t need a 4x multiplier ontop of every other item like CoE/FnR like every class has, to do T10. If we gave wizards or Marauder DH`s a 4x multiplier they`d break GR100 solo probably, and not "break" T10 lol.
Regarding the topic: I think that triple rend with lamentation could be enough sustain damage to really give WW a boost. Add in multiplicative SG, and potentially 1 more legendary that applies rend for you when you hit with ww and increases rends damage by 60%, and you have something. That is sort of what I mean by "the box". You cannot just look at what current content is and say something is impossible, thats the least likely thing in the gaming industry.
What about dust doing 4k weapon dmg and ring gives it 2x dmg = 8k weapon dmg? So set itself is buffed toi then...
I disagree completely Shapookya, we do not have ALL of the additions in PTR yet, so therefore making any assumption is irrelevant based on your description....
The target audience of this game is not what you think it is. They are not looking to target the "casual of the casual". They are trying their best to interact with ALL AUDIENCE TYPES, as proven by hundreds of interviews and said game features. For instance, Paragon is an introduction for the true hardcore players to continue to grind. So are many of the cube features. For casuals, you get to level 1-70 each season, farm up some new legendary gear, and maybe complete the season journey, but rarely. Casuals have the option of not playing seasons, due to split functionality between season and non season.
Therefore, you are dropping the ball in every sense of the definition. Blizzard caters to ALL players, not just one specified audience which is what you claim to be fact.
So then I ask you again, if "End Game" is simply paragon and despair augment gear, is that sufficient end game for the true die hard fans? I say no, paragon is flawed in functionality. Augment gear is very nice however, as it could be targeted by many audience bases who play the game, and has an infinite scaling system, which is GREAT for die hards, but it also is infinite in a way that makes sense.
If I had to make a prediction, augment gear was created to replace paragon main stat +800, but they first wanted to gauge reactions to augment gear first.
Either way, the topic is how good can WW be because Skull Grasp is multiplicative. The answer is undefined atm, because we do not have enough data, though we can "assume" that it will perform BETTER, than it currently does.
Personally I do not like it. I think Dust Devils should either A, be removed from the set and have it focus purely on WW and Rend or B, continue to be a stand alone that is only buffed by elemental damage (physical), and your basic damage buffs.
My guess is that they want to do A, because having Rend in the set makes little sense with the AOE functionality of Dust Devils. Dust Devils was a quick/temporary fix to help Wrath of the Wastes perform better. I think this PTR patch is going to see several renditions and changes to Wrath, and we see a finalized version of it in season 7, where it is then ready for simple tuning due to power creep.
I like what a poster above (celey) suggested about a bracer addition though I think 5% reduction and boost is far to much. I would instead go with something like 1%, maybe even 1/2% because if you stack a group of lets say 50 enemies together, getting 250% damage reduction and damage is a bit OP. I guess you could simply put a limit on it of 100% damage and 50% damage reduction, and leave it at 5% for simplicity of use?
Takeing Dust Devils out of set and just buffing ww dmg is so stupid. That' s the only reason why that set is fun anf you can just play ik ww barb if u want pure ww dmg. Now stop trolling...
Vyr`s getting buffed. DH`s don`t 1 specific item to do T10. It will benefit from "specific" items, but it is not MANDATORY, like skull grasp is for WW barbs. DH will still do T10 pretty fast even with non optimal combos and different weapons. Maybe if you actually tried switching out a piece for something not for that build, and try T10 you`d see the same as I see. Nats is pretty crap yes.
It`s pretty obvious you just refuse to admit that a set that with the best BIS gear any other class can do T10(and even Gr70-80+ but for comparison) with, barely gets you above T8 "efficiently", is crap.
I`ve done GR70s with UE dh with manticore, and vice versa, and it still worked, albeit slower.
But whatever.
So WW doesn`t need supporting items? How convenient for you that every other class needs supporting items, but WW doesn`t.
Finally someone else realizing how insanely low damage WW does compared to all the other class sets. Also, with 6IK you might have the insanity rune giving another 50% damage.
Where exactly was I raging and being childish? I am merely stating facts. WW needs to be buffed alot without support items! Delsere`s got tons of damage, and it can farm T10 reasonably fast and easy. My arcane orbit wiz crit like 15-20B without CoE, meaning I oneshot elite packs, and 2/3 shot RG with crits on T10. It might not have the movement speed, which you can ofc spec into if that is needed, but it still trumps WW set by quite a bit.
Show me where I said that other specs don`t need support items. What I said was that other classes aren`t depending on 1 single item to get them to T10. Because the sets are "increased damage" to "all" skills, so you can make whatever build you want not relying on 1 single item. My wizard can do T10 without WoW, T10 without unstable scepter, DH can do T10 without Yang`s Recurve and Manticore. It will ofc suffer a bit damage wise, but the damage will still be enough to kill stuff on T10 pretty fast.
My WW barb on PTR, 5.3M damage without WotB, yet dust devil hits for a measly 258m crit on a elite, with furnace cubed. Because WW set isn`t "increased damage" multiplier like literally every other set, its 2500% WEAPON damage. if it was changed to 2500% increased damage, the story would (probably, depending on mechanics)be very different.