In my opinion, rushes should be HC style. Rushing should be dangerous. Boss damage should scale, etc. HC rushing takes time because in hell and NM the Mobs are dangerous, especially if not well geared.
The best solution is make the game longer, and have elite mobs scale. Then those who want to rush can, and those that dont are not at a dissadvantage. Often HC players that go through normally go just as fast as the rushing crew in hell and NM, and they get experience at the same time.
Likewise, without rushing the game will lose a lot of replayability.
Can you go more into detail?
How is this system to work?
Can you go more into detail?
How is this system to work?
Think Oblivion, just only with elite monsters. The higher your level the more damage they do and can take. Basically no matter the difficulty the Elite/Champion mobs would be your level. (or the highest in your party.)
This is a good solution, because rushing becomes harder(slightly), but MF becomes better/just as viable.
Think Oblivion, just only with elite monsters. The higher your level the more damage they do and can take. Basically no matter the difficulty the Elite/Champion mobs would be your level. (or the highest in your party.)
This is a good solution, because rushing becomes harder(slightly), but MF becomes better/just as viable.
By this method, wouldn't, say, Act 5 hell be the same difficulty as Act 1 Normal?
Here is my toughts. I've said these in some other threads as well, at least some.
I don't like rushing and I don't like runs.
One thing that rushing and MF running caused was teh maphack. People had 99 level sorc doing rushing in normal and still needed maphack like it wasn't fast enough already. Also MF runs needed to be done quick and with maphack this was faster. I do think that blizzard will have some nice plans against hacking in d3 but still this kind of system makes a need for such things.
I don't know how many of u played before LOD but back then rushing was pointless. Even all the tristruns, tombruns etc was pretty useless since the bigger the party the less exp you got. Best party was 2-3, 4 max so not that kind of mega kill rush like now with 8 ppl, or it was possible but you didn't get much exp. Also if you were 5 levels or more lower than some other guy in your party he would take all the exp from you, or you would get like 1 per mob Also if you were 5 levels lower(and ofc higher) than the mobs you killed you didn't get good exp. This prevented lower level people of beiing in the highest level areas.
Also many people did solo exp, especially babas that did river of flame at 85+ level. If you were lvl 75 and wanted to go there and take his Urdars (that gave good exp untill lvl 91) you were guaranteed to get hostiled, this was a very fun aspect that is long gone now. Back then even in softcore you lost something when killed in pvp.. exp. There was a really different respect on high level people back then.
Other thing they changed for 1.10 that favoured runs was that you got HUGE amounth of exp for special mobs which basically caused that there was no point killing anything else but the specials. Before 1.10 it wasn't that big difference and it was always beneficial to clear all mobs not just the bosses.
About the MF runs. They should figure out a system that we shouldn't need to just run the few special mobs over and over. And also pre-lod when rares were the shit, you were able to find a kickass rares even in normal difficulty. I found a helmet with insane stats for sorc from normal river of flame skull pile. This would be nice if you consider your making a new char and you can't rush. You would still have a nice opporturnity to find some quality items.
Making a new char pre-LOD wasn't all that clean tho. You had those uniques with no level requirements that you gave to your new char and you quickly blasted through the acts. It wasn't that pure thing but I think it was better than rushing anyways, since you actually played yourself.
I kinda hope we have those smaller parties like they stated in the dev panels. Maybe have 12 players maximum at games and 4 players maximum parties. Also have several high level areas at the end game so all the 3 groups in the game will be able to exp there.
Someone said this would ruin the pvp scene.. well pre-lod you pretty much were able to pvp with your pvm char also. So they have to tweak this aswell. I remember when in LOD people liked to duel in HC.. well that kinda lost the point when creating the character took 1 day when someone boosted you and if you died in a duel well buhuu I just make a new one whats the frikin point almost the same as being in softcore. Old times it took long to get 80 in hc especially with S/S baba so the duels at those levels was intense! Some 85+ babas didn't even dare to duel even if they had pretty good chance to win just because if they didn't they lost so many hours of work.
So in many ways rushing and runs / exp leech made D2 not fun and challenging.
If you knew what you were doing in 1.10 and 1.11, you could get from 1-90 in one day. First and foremost, D2 was all about the PvP. If you take out rushing and runs, it would destroy the PvP scene. I'm sure I'll play through the entire game without a rush. But once I've got my first high level character and I know the game content like the back of my hand, I am going to rush my friends characters through the game. And when I want to make a new character, i'll have them rush me through the game. Diablo is not WoW.
If you knew what you were doing in 1.10 and 1.11, you could get from 1-90 in one day. First and foremost, D2 was all about the PvP. If you take out rushing and runs, it would destroy the PvP scene. I'm sure I'll play through the entire game without a rush. But once I've got my first high level character and I know the game content like the back of my hand, I am going to rush my friends characters through the game. And when I want to make a new character, i'll have them rush me through the game. Diablo is not WoW.
Well of course it's all about PVP when there is nothing else to do if you level 1-90 in 1 day. When you have to work for it there is something more in it. Besides it was prolly all about the pvp for you but not for most I think pvpers are the minority in D2.
runs are cool - but rushing just ruins the game.. not many games where people are just questing together, now all it is is 'can u plz rush me' ... no way.
I spent 4 or 5 hours in the trade channels every night, I rushed my friends, I played through D2 with every character class. I MF'ed for hours at a time. I helped friends with their Uber Tristrams. I waited in games for uber diablo, I'd do 200 baal runs in one sitting when I actually felt like leveling, I talked to my D2 friends all night long. PvP was still the greatest aspect of the game for me. I'd be willing to bet that the PvPers in D2 were not the minority.
Well of course it's all about PVP when there is nothing else to do if you level 1-90 in 1 day. When you have to work for it there is something more in it. Besides it was prolly all about the pvp for you but not for most I think pvpers are the minority in D2.
I agree that there is something more in it than leveling 1-90 in one day. It was the 2 months I spent MFing for items, and the month after that that I spent in the trade channels and trade games I spent trading for the items to create my pvper. When my PvP druid was created in one day.... It was the end result of my hard work for 3 months working for his gear. And he pwnt the day he was made because I had every piece of gear laid out for him, and I was able to calculate down to the point of str needed for him to wear all his gear. After taking into account every charm and item worn. If you take out rushing.... The 3 months spent crafting a godly killing machine for PvP will now become 5 months because I have to grind for exp like in WoW. Please no.
Well before LOD you didn't have to MF run anything.. so that 2 months you did MF you would level up and you would be likely close to 90 in 2 months. While leveling you would have good chance to get really good items.
You don't have to calculate stuff with this kind of system and have an exact gear since no one else have either, everyone is on the same line. But you could still do it by wearing some weaker Strenght items etc while leveling and when you have final gear you could switch them off.
I remember a friend created ITD BVB barb in the early days he traded the whole gear his sorc had for the scepter. A Divine Scepter with ITD and high damage was insane against barbs. He invested all points to vitality and wore -req gear with high def. He was able to do this easily even back then when he had to level alone or with friend. I helped him out in hell difficulty after level 60 with some of my lower level characters since he wasn't able to do much damage. So we just leveled together.
You could do this even today.. have 2 friends to start a character and your Druid would easily be able to save stats etc and also probably gain levels quite fast..To hell and level 70 in 1-2 days i'm sure.
btw is there anything in pvp anymore if every class has teleport?
Sounds like you stopped playing before Enigma was introduced. PvP was better with it imo.
I stopped playing pretty much when Wow was released.
I played LOD for maybe ½ year and I got bored of the bloody run cow run shit... went back to original and back to the fun soloing stuff and playing in small parties. Sometimes I've gone back to LOD to make one character and I always get bored when i get to Hell a5.
What about all the runewords that give you battle orders for example? Isn't that kinda stupid to be a barb when others have bo against u? Also all the auras u get from runewords are just pff.
I've seen pvp as a real dupe field.. no place other I've seen so much dupes around. I have not much respect for pvp'rs since you almost always fight against dupes. And most likely many of the runewords are made of duped runes.
Games only have so much replayabilitiy I don't want D3 to be tedious because I can't get rushed nor do runs to get the items I want. Plus it's not like I ever really wanted to co op through the whole gam with a whole bunch of random people on bnet. Save rushing for when you're playing alone and playing through properly for friends.
The way I see it, the only possible alternative to remove runs/rushing is to make the probability of item drops the SAME FOR EVERY MONSTER.
In other words, runs/rushing will probably stay in the game. Unless, of course, someone has a really great idea that nobody has thought of yet.
There is really no other way. If you have a boss, and that boss drops better items, everyone wil want to kill that boss. The same for common enemies (pindleskin comes to mind). Only if EVERY MONSTER had the same drop rate the runs/rushes would stop. This way, people would just start adventuring, killing monsters as they come.
Now, I don't know if this is a good idea, because finding rare and good items would become REALLY hard. Maybe, then, magic find would become much more important than it is in diablo 2.
They just have to make it hard to rush through a level. Perhaps force games to have very close skill level chars (no more than 5 levels higher or lower).
you can always not rush....but rushing and mfin for me was what made me love the game so much...dont get me wrong questing and doin everything is fun when you start out but when you do it so much it gets repetative..
Not when you're with a big group of people and you're cooping. Playing a game with friends and using your skills together is always fun. My opinion, of course.
you can always not rush....but rushing and mfin for me was what made me love the game so much...dont get me wrong questing and doin everything is fun when you start out but when you do it so much it gets repetative..
Hah this sounds fun. You say that playing all the acts through properly is repetative? Howabout that baal run don't u think running same place 1000 times is not repetative? Also the MF runs you run same set of monsters thousands of times.
I really hope d3 finds a better solution to this. More killing, more areas to level 99 (or whatever the cap is) more mini bosses, smaller groups not a full game doing 1 area but many smaller groups in many different areas. I'd like to see that killing end bosses should take a long time and not like now that sorc statcis 50% and fast kill after that. This would make farming of them less attractive and their power would really be what it should. You would need a good group to kill them fast, but if you wanted you could always still solo them but not with ease.
How is this system to work?
Think Oblivion, just only with elite monsters. The higher your level the more damage they do and can take. Basically no matter the difficulty the Elite/Champion mobs would be your level. (or the highest in your party.)
This is a good solution, because rushing becomes harder(slightly), but MF becomes better/just as viable.
I don't like rushing and I don't like runs.
One thing that rushing and MF running caused was teh maphack. People had 99 level sorc doing rushing in normal and still needed maphack like it wasn't fast enough already. Also MF runs needed to be done quick and with maphack this was faster. I do think that blizzard will have some nice plans against hacking in d3 but still this kind of system makes a need for such things.
I don't know how many of u played before LOD but back then rushing was pointless. Even all the tristruns, tombruns etc was pretty useless since the bigger the party the less exp you got. Best party was 2-3, 4 max so not that kind of mega kill rush like now with 8 ppl, or it was possible but you didn't get much exp. Also if you were 5 levels or more lower than some other guy in your party he would take all the exp from you, or you would get like 1 per mob Also if you were 5 levels lower(and ofc higher) than the mobs you killed you didn't get good exp. This prevented lower level people of beiing in the highest level areas.
Also many people did solo exp, especially babas that did river of flame at 85+ level. If you were lvl 75 and wanted to go there and take his Urdars (that gave good exp untill lvl 91) you were guaranteed to get hostiled, this was a very fun aspect that is long gone now. Back then even in softcore you lost something when killed in pvp.. exp. There was a really different respect on high level people back then.
Other thing they changed for 1.10 that favoured runs was that you got HUGE amounth of exp for special mobs which basically caused that there was no point killing anything else but the specials. Before 1.10 it wasn't that big difference and it was always beneficial to clear all mobs not just the bosses.
About the MF runs. They should figure out a system that we shouldn't need to just run the few special mobs over and over. And also pre-lod when rares were the shit, you were able to find a kickass rares even in normal difficulty. I found a helmet with insane stats for sorc from normal river of flame skull pile. This would be nice if you consider your making a new char and you can't rush. You would still have a nice opporturnity to find some quality items.
Making a new char pre-LOD wasn't all that clean tho. You had those uniques with no level requirements that you gave to your new char and you quickly blasted through the acts. It wasn't that pure thing but I think it was better than rushing anyways, since you actually played yourself.
I kinda hope we have those smaller parties like they stated in the dev panels. Maybe have 12 players maximum at games and 4 players maximum parties. Also have several high level areas at the end game so all the 3 groups in the game will be able to exp there.
Someone said this would ruin the pvp scene.. well pre-lod you pretty much were able to pvp with your pvm char also. So they have to tweak this aswell. I remember when in LOD people liked to duel in HC.. well that kinda lost the point when creating the character took 1 day when someone boosted you and if you died in a duel well buhuu I just make a new one whats the frikin point almost the same as being in softcore. Old times it took long to get 80 in hc especially with S/S baba so the duels at those levels was intense! Some 85+ babas didn't even dare to duel even if they had pretty good chance to win just because if they didn't they lost so many hours of work.
So in many ways rushing and runs / exp leech made D2 not fun and challenging.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
I agree that there is something more in it than leveling 1-90 in one day. It was the 2 months I spent MFing for items, and the month after that that I spent in the trade channels and trade games I spent trading for the items to create my pvper. When my PvP druid was created in one day.... It was the end result of my hard work for 3 months working for his gear. And he pwnt the day he was made because I had every piece of gear laid out for him, and I was able to calculate down to the point of str needed for him to wear all his gear. After taking into account every charm and item worn. If you take out rushing.... The 3 months spent crafting a godly killing machine for PvP will now become 5 months because I have to grind for exp like in WoW. Please no.
You don't have to calculate stuff with this kind of system and have an exact gear since no one else have either, everyone is on the same line. But you could still do it by wearing some weaker Strenght items etc while leveling and when you have final gear you could switch them off.
I remember a friend created ITD BVB barb in the early days he traded the whole gear his sorc had for the scepter. A Divine Scepter with ITD and high damage was insane against barbs. He invested all points to vitality and wore -req gear with high def. He was able to do this easily even back then when he had to level alone or with friend. I helped him out in hell difficulty after level 60 with some of my lower level characters since he wasn't able to do much damage. So we just leveled together.
You could do this even today.. have 2 friends to start a character and your Druid would easily be able to save stats etc and also probably gain levels quite fast..To hell and level 70 in 1-2 days i'm sure.
btw is there anything in pvp anymore if every class has teleport?
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
I played LOD for maybe ½ year and I got bored of the bloody run cow run shit... went back to original and back to the fun soloing stuff and playing in small parties. Sometimes I've gone back to LOD to make one character and I always get bored when i get to Hell a5.
What about all the runewords that give you battle orders for example? Isn't that kinda stupid to be a barb when others have bo against u? Also all the auras u get from runewords are just pff.
I've seen pvp as a real dupe field.. no place other I've seen so much dupes around. I have not much respect for pvp'rs since you almost always fight against dupes. And most likely many of the runewords are made of duped runes.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Nah, just the bosses, Unique monsters, and champion mobs.
Also, they could scale it easily as well... and have done so before. Look at the Leech % differences from Norm, to NM, to Hell.
They just have to make it hard to rush through a level. Perhaps force games to have very close skill level chars (no more than 5 levels higher or lower).
Exactly. I want more people to quest with and COOP with, and basically to have an adventurous blast fighting the minions of hell.
The broken D2 system creates uptight jerks who remind me of oil tycoons.
And i enjoy helping the less fortunate with a rush
"Ahh, fresh meat!"
- The Butcher
Not when you're with a big group of people and you're cooping. Playing a game with friends and using your skills together is always fun. My opinion, of course.
The diablo game itself and quests is DIABLO. Not spazzy rushing and item greed.
I really hope d3 finds a better solution to this. More killing, more areas to level 99 (or whatever the cap is) more mini bosses, smaller groups not a full game doing 1 area but many smaller groups in many different areas. I'd like to see that killing end bosses should take a long time and not like now that sorc statcis 50% and fast kill after that. This would make farming of them less attractive and their power would really be what it should. You would need a good group to kill them fast, but if you wanted you could always still solo them but not with ease.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)