Calling their art "Cute" and changing it and calling for a change in art direction, which tells the art director of the game that he and his team are wrong and have failed, can be considered bashing. I would take offense to it as an artist.
Secondly, while there has been some mocking, there has also been a lot of discussion by me on the subject and points made. Didn't you see?
No you don't, i'm almost 99% certain that you have about asmuch understanding about art as Paris Hilton has about dignity. You had "training in art" and that leads you to the conclusion people not in agreement about the "epic awesomeness" of the current art direction "don't see the big picture"? Miind telling us this " big picture" wich fans of the series are missing somehow and someway relates to having a change in art direction?
Blizzards latest "great games" had nothing in common with the art direction of Diablo. Sadly its showing for anyone not too oblivious.
Almost 99% huh? Hehe.
I never said anything like that. I actually explained many posts ago, after I was accused of having no understanding of art direction, that I did have some experience and training in art. I've done some graphic design and I'm a film major currently. I never said that it means I win at anything, silly pants. I think having a background in art does help though and the main reason I said it was so that people knew that my statements were coming from an educated source.
The big picture? Ok. I think what I meant when I said "the big picture" was that we have not seen most of the game yet so anything calling for it to be changed can be construed as premature.
Anyone else in line to throw down the gauntlet with me? Hehe.
I'd rather ask those who want a change in D3:
- Why does shrinking down a pair of shoulder pads on a Barbarian make the game more "Diablo"?
- How does changing the way a gargoyle on the railing of a staircase looks make a game more "Diablo"?
I never said anything like that. I actually explained many posts ago, after I was accused of having no understanding of art direction, that I did have some experience and training in art. I've done some graphic design and I'm a film major currently. I never said that it means I win at anything, silly pants. I think having a background in art does help though and the main reason I said it was so that people knew that my statements were coming from an educated source.
The big picture? Ok. I think what I meant when I said "the big picture" was that we have not seen most of the game yet so anything calling for it to be changed can be construed as premature.
Anyone else in line to throw down the gauntlet with me? Hehe.
I'd rather ask those who want a change in D3:
- Why does shrinking down a pair of shoulder pads on a Barbarian make the game more "Diablo"?
- How does changing the way a gargoyle on the railing of a staircase looks make a game more "Diablo"?
Ok first off, apologies for my post earlier, it came across like I was calling you an idiotic 12 year old when that wasn't my intention at all. I guess my point was that you are using phrases that a certain group of rather hated people use. I and many others are sick of the people who actually genuinely seem to think the petition can be solved by desaturating your monitor and calling anyone who signed an emo that should go put some eyeliner on. You are or were fairly new here and may genuinely been intending it as a joke, knowing that the solutions in the comic were silly, but that was what was meant to make it funny.
You are also right that it takes a little longer draw an image than find it, took me about 15 mins to rough a scene out like that, but still being an artist I would still have just drawn it myself than find an image. Perhaps if the comic wasn't worth the time to draw it wasn't worth making?
The shoulder pads: It makes it more similar to the older games that had a more realistic tone to them, particularly in the armor. (and please don't spout the old "but D2 had big shoulder pads", it did but they didn't cover the characters eyesight and they were big because back then they had limited pixels to work with in-game. The Armor in the inventory is the stuff you should be looking at, and its overall very realistic.
The gargoyle: The Tristram Cathedral was a Gothic place (yes I know the whole game wasn't), the video supposedly used the same tileset as the D3 tristram cathedral however, the most Gothic themed place in the game now looks like a high fantasy version of Bioshock and that statue is nothing like a Gargoyle and frankly looks like a warcraft model.
Thanks Corwyn. I want to respond to your thought out points.
Quote from "Corwyn" »
You are also right that it takes a little longer draw an image than find it, took me about 15 mins to rough a scene out like that, but still being an artist I would still have just drawn it myself than find an image. Perhaps if the comic wasn't worth the time to draw it wasn't worth making?
Nah. I chose to use an image to make the comic faster. It basically relates to my time in the day and the comic was only a quick joke anyway so an image was appropriate.
On the shoulder pads - I feel that big shoulder pads not only give a character more presence and a powerful look, but they lend themselves well to fantasy games. I feel that realism is in no way the bread and butter of the Diablo series so it seems odd to me that so many people dislike the shoulder pads. I feel the other Diablo games weren't as focused on realism as people make out. I think that Diablo 3 will have all kinds of armor in it and shouldn't be limited to a specific type that inhibits the fantasy of it all.
The gargoyle: The Tristram Cathedral was a Gothic place (yes I know the whole game wasn't), the video supposedly used the same tileset as the D3 tristram cathedral however, the most Gothic themed place in the game now looks like a high fantasy version of Bioshock and that statue is nothing like a Gargoyle and frankly looks like a warcraft model.
While I think it's being picky, I see your point. I do think that the gargoyle looks fine, and doesn't appear "cute" like some say. It actually looks kinds hand carved and primitive and seems to have it's own style - which is still dark in my book. If it had big googly eyes I would see your point more though. Heh.
Thanks Corwyn. I want to respond to your thought out points.
Nah. I chose to use an image to make the comic faster. It basically relates to my time in the day and the comic was only a quick joke anyway so an image was appropriate.
On the shoulder pads - I feel that big shoulder pads not only give a character more presence and a powerful look, but they lend themselves well to fantasy games. I feel that realism is in no way the bread and butter of the Diablo series so it seems odd to me that so many people dislike the shoulder pads. I feel the other Diablo games weren't as focused on realism as people make out. I think that Diablo 3 will have all kinds of armor in it and shouldn't be limited to a specific type that inhibits the fantasy of it all.
While I think it's being picky, I see your point. I do think that the gargoyle looks fine, and doesn't appear "cute" like some say. It actually looks kinds hand carved and primitive and seems to have it's own style - which is still dark in my book. If it had big googly eyes I would see your point more though. Heh.
I guess our opinions differ on the matter of shoulder armor then! I like the idea of a stylized look for Diablo, I think stylization can immerse people even more in media and I think that when done right it almost makes scenes more real than reality. A painted and stylized look for Diablo doesn't bother me at all, I don't want it to look like Crysis. However I just think that shoulder armor in that style looks downright silly, I have no problem with big shoulder pads, its the overall feel and silhouette of the warcraft like designs that it my opinion fail for the Diablo setting.
Here is a super quick sketch (sorry for poor quality), to me one of these characters looks goofy, unbalanced and hunch backed, whereas one displays the typical look of a "hero" figure, broad shoulders and triangular torso, the figure of a warrior. The hunch backed look even appears in bioshock, very suitably placed on an extremely stupid, bulky and fairly clumsy character that is only good at bashing things. This look is to me (and probably many others) not associated with a skilled warrior.
I can't wait to see those graphics with my $8,000 set-up and Gateway FHD2400 24".
I busted a lot of ass saving up for this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
I see what you guys are saying about the shoulder pads but I think in the end it is silly to bring up standards of realism on the subject of shoulder pad size. I just have a different opinion is all. I think Blizzard feels complaints like this are shallow in nature and are based more on personal tastes than a solid awareness of what makes a good IP.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I have a background in art, i studied graphical design, illustrative design, general art after Neoclassisism, some photography, advertising and the psychology behind it..., the funny thing is that i don't see how all of that relates to being able to see that art design changed. What relates more is being an idiot or not frankly, or maybe being blind (you can always hope someone to be blind rather then an idiot, false hope though.)
Thanks for the credentials and the "idiot" speech... . I think that letting someone know what you've studied, if it relates to the subject, is relevant. If you noticed, liquid was making claims that you don't have to be trained in something to whine incessantly about it,..errr I mean, you don't have to be trained in something to know what good art direction is and to claim that a game needs changes. Well, you and I both know that's true - but an actual background in art HELPS, right? So when I was told that I had no idea what I was talking about I let him know my background.
Having a fundamental understanding of design and art is important if you are going to back up why you have a grievance in the first place. That way you know what you are talking about, and it's clear that a lot of people have no idea. I can't believe someone who has your background would believe it's more about being stupid or not. No wonder you're 99% sure that I have no understanding about art - it sounds to me like we're on very different planes of thought.
The petition actually states that the game is "too beautiful". Now tell me that is the statement of a person who passes your idiot test...
I somewhat agree, but the thing is, it did already change and i'm sure you are well aware of that, so how is disagreeing wth that change wrong? (Then agreeing would be just as wrong, would it not?)
Kinda vague here and silly questions.
You ask the wrong questions, the questions should be:
- Why does enlarging a pair of shoulder pads on a Barbarian make the game more "Diablo"?
- How does changing the way a gargoyle on the railing of a staircase looks make a game more "Diablo"? (This is actually the correct question, just addressing the wrong people, you should be addressing Blizzard and whoever is in agreement with them)
I think you're off here. If I didn't call for change, then these questions don't apply to me. Spin them all you want. They must be answered by the people who call for the changes. Some people here have been cool enough to try to answer them too.
No, the petition says that the game is almost unidentifiable from the previous two games. And, I at least, didn't argue that the current art direction is bad in and of itself, I (as well as the petition) am arguing that this direction doesn't fit the already established style of the franchise (and bares a striking resemblance to another of Blizzard's universes).
"You this and you that! You did this and you did that! And You can't even argue my amazing points and you are 12 years old too! HA!" You're a bore and forum cliche. Come back when you can actually contribute like Kenzai.
Kenzai - I think you need to rethink your statement. I really do. Come on.
You're a forum cliché as well, the "Reply to each and every post that offends me" cliché.
Nice cliche. Make that up by yourself just now? Sorry I debated some points - that must mean I'm offended in some way. If you want to see some one who's offended look to liquid. He can't stop talking about me personally and it's obvious he had to get out of the ring on the subject of art direction a long time ago after getting his ass handed to him. Check out his trolling skills - it's almost like cut and paste trolling 101.
Kenzai - Here is why you need to rethink your statement and I really, really want you to pay close attention to this:
Imagine you've made some pieces of art. Years later you make another piece of art. Suddenly a fan of your work says, "You can't make art that looks like that!!! That's not YOUR style! You need to go back to you OLD style! That style is more your style than this new style!"
Ridiculous isn't it? Someone telling you not only that you need to stick to your old style, but they are audacious enough to tell you what your style is! What nonsense, right?
You can appeal to the "Why not?" arguement, to which I say: Why not let Blizz make some of the armor sets big and fantasy-like? Some people out there will like them!
The problem with your argument for me is that it comes down to your personal taste. You think a certain gargoyle looks better on a staircase than the one in the game? Whoop-de-shit. That's a nit picky, lame, personal preference and DOES NOT reflect the game as a whole. This who complaint about Diablo 3's style has gone too far and it is no wonder that myself and many others are poking fun at people who are crying for such inane changes with nearly nonsensical reasons for thier back up.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
I dont get whats wrong if they make the armor of the barb a little more realistic and the monsters and environment a little more scary.
Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it is odd to say things like "Make it more realistic! Make it more scary!" What's scary to people is subjective as hell. What's realistic to people is also. Make it more X and Y! I'm tired of you telling us what is realistic to YOU in a fantasy game. Either enjoy the FANTASY of the game or deal with shoulder pads that are too big for YOUR personal taste.
You must really love Blizz and their games to pick at whether or not armor works when some one bends their body. There is no way in hell that Blizz made their armor so ridiculous that it needs your input to help make it more "Diablo".
Tell me how you can disagree with these:
See above. Your opinion is your opinion, but I have to say it's still hilarious to me that so many people are this hard on Blizzard's first showing of the game ever. I just think you and others take it too far and that might keep you from enjoying a great game in the end.
Doppleganger - I thought you might actually have something to say but you don't. I don't know if you're just offended by my jokes or my stance on a the subject but it's clear to me that you have little to nothing to really say about the topic and instead want to foolishly disect my statements and try to pretend that it's proof that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's sad and hilarous...
So who complained to let them change the art direction of Diablo then? Because thats what people now are complaining about, if you didn't already figure that out. (or just don't want to know, i don't care)
You need to think these comments out more. They make little to no sense. What do you mean?
What speech? I'm saying you have to be pretty much a blistering idiot to not see the glaring changes, you are the one brushing it off with credentials. Sadly for you your credentials mean shit, i don't fucking care if your background in art would be paved with enourmess succes, you either still don't have a cliue what you're talking about, or you just want to remain clueless. Whatever it is i don't care, just don't bother me with idiotism "because you have credentials".
Cry more. I have points to make and so do others. You have lame attacks to make and your point are vague. I love getting attacked for merely stating that I have a background in art and I've even been questioned about it. I'm questioning you right now as you haven't responded as I thought you would - with insight. If you can't talk with people about the art direction then do us both a favor and stop trying to plan out another vague, meandering whiney attack on me. Thanks.
You don't have to have a fundamental understanding of design and art (wich you don't have anyways, i can garantee that), you just use your fucking eyes.
It is clear you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about and refuse to actually look at whats laying infront of you. Believe me, i'm not 99% certain anymore, its closer to 99.9% now, but that has more to do with your next quote wich pretty much is hard evidence you have asmuch understanding about art and design as Uwe Bolle.
"garantee", huh? Ewwwwww 99.9%? Wow. This is just awesome. You have hard proof that I don't understand art now? Please enlighten me oh wise one who has not been able to make even one reference to a single artistic term this entire thread...
For fucks sake, and you dare to call yourself "knowledgable" when it comes to art and design? You think "beauty" (wich is fucking subjective anyways, that is if you actually knew wtf you are talking about) is the epitome of "art" and "design", you know nothing. Beauty is what Diablo always was supposed to be? Pfft.
lol. Cry more. And make up some more things while you're at it. Who said that beauty was the epitome of art? Show me. I really want to know who said it... please show me! And why would beauty in the confines of a dark fantasy be a bad thing again? Again, enlighten me little bitter art kid.
Tell me, who called for change?
The 50K people on the petition did, smart guy.
You welcomed change, yet you can't feel any solidarity with whoever calls to change what changed? Lets see how you will talk yourself out of that one, because you are doing the spinning here.
This is the argument of a demented child. Learn to comprehend and drop the BS attacks and try to have a big boy conversation.
I want to hear about your opinion of the art direction and if you think it should be changed and explain why and try not to be vague as hell while doing it.
So why is the game called Diablo then, genius?
If Blizzard just wants to make whatever, they shouldn't try to sell it as something its not, but i'm sure you don't get that.
Stop telling Blizzard that you know their IP better than they do. You don't know it better than them. It's beyond sad now.
Are you just moronic or what? People ask for the art direction of Diablo to NOT change. If its still not seeping trough that thick skull of yours then i give up.
If you can't express yourself intelligently and to the point then don't pretend it's some one elses fault.
Exactly what points did you make? I attack your assumption that because you have "credentials" (wich i highly doubt) your nonsensical conundrum of arguments are somehow valid, wich they aren't as pointed out by people besides me. You claim to know "art direction", yet you seem to be unable to grasp the concept "art direction already changed" and some people don't like that for obvious reasons. Need i say more?
You attacked my credentials because you didn't like what I was saying. It's classic trollish behavior of some one who can't dispute points being made.
Oh my, i misspelled a word, disregard what i actually said.
Try to lecture me why "being able to reference" an artistic term makes your blindness about the fact direction of art already changed and the ability to comprehend some people not agreeing with the change any less blind and dim. You call me "wise", compared to you i guess i am.
Right, now you're trying to use your own "vagueness" to cover the implications of what you said, smart, nah not really just the same old spin thing again.
This is what you said: "The petition actually states that the game is "too beautiful". Now tell me that is the statement of a person who passes your idiot test..."
Have difficulty understanding the concept of something being "too much"? I'm not surpised you can't to be honest. Have difficulty understanding "beauty isn't what defines art or design" so that its perfectly possible that the direction of an art style of for example a game of a franchise can be too beautiful? whu wouda thunk? So what exactly bothers you with someoneg thinking an art design can be "too beautiful" again? Like you actually can give me any valid answers. How are you unable to understand that if there's too much beauty the dark fantasy doesn't confine it anymore? Inability to understand is what confines you.
Those 50K people didn't change Diablo's art design dumbo.
But now i'm getting it, you're just hurt 50K people don't agree with your stupidity, sad really.
And still my argument is valid and you have non, "big boy".
My opinion is that i think it SHOULD NOT have changed, i can't explain it any more crystal clear then that. If you still don't "grasp" the concept, then it is indeed more useful to talk to a brick wall.
I'm sorry Dopple. I tried so hard to get you to actually talk about the subject at hand and contribute rather than make outrageous inane claims and blie infested comments. You even had to tell yourself that you have a valid argument. Even when given a chance to state your case against the art direction all you can say is:
My opinion is that i think it SHOULD NOT have changed
Thanks for insight artful one. Don't bother giving any support to this stance.
You points seem to require a lobotomy to understand and I've read multiple articles making fun of people like you on this subject all over the net on prominent gaming news sites. You had your chance to make a point about the art direction but instead you seeped into inane trolling and made a total ass of yourself.
it's also exhausting arguing with a kid who likes to take what you say and then say "Noo I don't do that! YOU do that! I'm not vague!!! You are!" Half the time you don't even state what you referring to. You've got a lot of work to do on communicating your ideas instead of angrily streaming them out like a tantrum is taking place.
Kenzai - I'd like to talk art with you. You have things to say. Liquid and Dopple are kinda out of the loop and too threatened by me to have a real conversation.
Sorry guys - All this came from a little joke I made. I think that even some of you who support the petition to change D3's art direction can tell that the joke wasn't about all of you - it was about the people like Dopple. The ones who think they know it all and would rather debate about credentials than actually talk art. What a waste. I stand by my joke. It's funny and it does hit certain (not all of them) members of the whiny petition for change where it hurts. :thumbsup:
Imagine you've made some pieces of art. Years later you make another piece of art. Suddenly a fan of your work says, "You can't make art that looks like that!!! That's not YOUR style! You need to go back to you OLD style! That style is more your style than this new style!"
Ridiculous isn't it? Someone telling you not only that you need to stick to your old style, but they are audacious enough to tell you what your style is! What nonsense, right?
This analogy doesn't really work, the art in the case of Diablo is one part of a whole world and background. Its more like an artist creating artwork that perfectly suits a series of dark dungeon crawler books, who then decides he doesn't like the style he captured so perfectly before and wants to add flowers, rainbows and cutely proportioned rounded environments. The fans of the book then say wtf are you doing, because it doesn't match the content anymore.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You can appeal to the "Why not?" arguement, to which I say: Why not let Blizz make some of the armor sets big and fantasy-like? Some people out there will like them!
The problem with your argument for me is that it comes down to your personal taste. You think a certain gargoyle looks better on a staircase than the one in the game? Whoop-de-shit. That's a nit picky, lame, personal preference and DOES NOT reflect the game as a whole. This who complaint about Diablo 3's style has gone too far and it is no wonder that myself and many others are poking fun at people who are crying for such inane changes with nearly nonsensical reasons for thier back up.
Once again, all I can say is that the Diablo setting was not originally "high fantasy", it is now becoming so and people don't like it. The problem is that that Gargoyle is just one part of many things that make up the scene, take a look and the supposed Tristram dungeon set. Have a look at the tables with their hugely oversize legs and toy like looks. have a look at the chairs with the look of some sort of bizarre deck chair. have a look at the weird lighting pieces that look like they were pulled from some art deco dukebox. Have a real good look at some of that content making up the scene and tell me that it helps make up a dark and creepy dungeon.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it is odd to say things like "Make it more realistic! Make it more scary!" What's scary to people is subjective as hell. What's realistic to people is also. Make it more X and Y! I'm tired of you telling us what is realistic to YOU in a fantasy game. Either enjoy the FANTASY of the game or deal with shoulder pads that are too big for YOUR personal taste.
Scary is not really subjective, it may vary slightly from one person to another, but people will generally find "alien" scary and "Bambi" not scary. What they have is definitely not considered creepy or scary by most, as I said earlier a lot of the props making the scene look like toys and the whole place is floodlit with green. It's scary in the sort of way that children's movies represent scary.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You must really love Blizz and their games to pick at whether or not armor works when some one bends their body. There is no way in hell that Blizz made their armor so ridiculous that it needs your input to help make it more "Diablo".
Subjective, I find it so ugly it will stop me being enthused by the character appearance, but thats personal opinion. However once again I will say its not just about the gargoyle or the armor.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You need to think these comments out more. They make little to no sense. What do you mean?
He means that noone complained in these forums before D3 was announced saying "Diablo's look sucked, please make D3 look more like Warcraft Blizzard", so why fix what isn't broken. Not sure if you really missed the point though or if your being stubborn, it was obvious enough to me.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
This is the argument of a demented child. Learn to comprehend and drop the BS attacks and try to have a big boy conversation.
Again, I am pretty sure he means that it is unreasonable that you disagree with change when you are actually agreeing with the previous change, ie the change that took place between D2 and D3.
Argh. I don't want to come off as a troll, but you people are like roaches. The graphics look phenomenal, stop complaining. I'm concerned all your whining is going to alter D3 for the worse.
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If you don't have anything good to say, say it on the internet.
This analogy doesn't really work, the art in the case of Diablo is one part of a whole world and background. Its more like an artist creating artwork that perfectly suits a series of dark dungeon crawler books, who then decides he doesn't like the style he captured so perfectly before and wants to add flowers, rainbows and cutely proportioned rounded environments. The fans of the book then say wtf are you doing, because it doesn't match the content anymore.
I disagree with you because you are exaggerating the changes in the new diablo game in order to get your point across. Of course the game is going to change after years and years have gone by in both the game world and the gaming world. But,...in the end it's personal preference. I feel that the game still feels like a dark dungeon crawler and you don't. It's a problem, but from an artistic standpoint now that I can see more of the amazing surroundings and the game isn't as dark I can get a better feel for the world they've created. I can see caverns and things in the distance that are merely shades, but still amazing to look at. Also from a technical standpoint more events can happen in such an environment now - remember the part in the gameplay vid where we see a shady beast walks by in the background? That was cool for me.
I see what you mean, but the game can't fit into a little box of matched content from previous games. It won't give us anything new and refreshing - and it won't give us as amazing and lively looking a world to adventure with in. Again - my opinion.
Once again, all I can say is that the Diablo setting was not originally "high fantasy", it is now becoming so and people don't like it. The problem is that that Gargoyle is just one part of many things that make up the scene, take a look and the supposed Tristram dungeon set. Have a look at the tables with their hugely oversize legs and toy like looks. have a look at the chairs with the look of some sort of bizarre deck chair. have a look at the weird lighting pieces that look like they were pulled from some art deco dukebox. Have a real good look at some of that content making up the scene and tell me that it helps make up a dark and creepy dungeon.
Myself and others, including a writer for Blizzard Guru, think the setting looks lived in and has a well planned creepy aesthetic. It looks like people had to leave suddenly and it reminded me of a suped up Diablo when I saw it. Again, lol, my opinion. I like the games look and I don't think it's as WoW influence as people are claiming. I think it does have Blizzards trademark style, but it has been taken to a new level and even appears painted on my screen.
Scary is not really subjective, it may vary slightly from one person to another, but people will generally find "alien" scary and "Bambi" not scary. What they have is definitely not considered creepy or scary by most, as I said earlier a lot of the props making the scene look like toys and the whole place is floodlit with green. It's scary in the sort of way that children's movies represent scary.
Naw. There are horror movies that will scare one of my friends while I sit back and crack up the entire time. That's true enough right? Now the fact that people hate the green light annoys me. Creepy green, poisonous looking light isn't creepy? Shit. Type O Negative a bad ass gothy metal band that I listen to has a song called Creepy Green Light for a damn reason (I'm kinda joking here but it is true). Again it comes down to opinion. I think it's moody and creepy in the tombs and FUN looking. It doesn't look like gray and poo brown surrounded by a black viewfinder. And that's refreshing to me as I feel I'm in a world - not a box. Again - opinions haha.
He means that noone complained in these forums before D3 was announced saying "Diablo's look sucked, please make D3 look more like Warcraft Blizzard", so why fix what isn't broken. Not sure if you really missed the point though or if your being stubborn, it was obvious enough to me.
It is debatable that D3 doesn't look like WoW for the most part. I feel it doesn't.
Again, I am pretty sure he means that it is unreasonable that you disagree with change when you are actually agreeing with the previous change, ie the change that took place between D2 and D3.
That's a logical fallacy on your (or his) part. Sorry, but it's true. Just because I like one change does not mean I should agree with another. Sorry. But I hope you get finally why that is a silly statement.
Sigh, thanks for talking opinions with me though instead of planning some kind of whiny attack. It's refreshing and it's a,.....dun dun dun!!! nice CHANGE!!!! :thumbsup:
There's no point in talking to people like Creepsville.
Jebus christ, never seen that much stubborn stupidity before.
I will try putting some sense into this kid one more time.
This above is called "The Trolls Opening".
Huh? That doesn't even relate to what i said.
If Steven Spielberg decides the next Indiana Jones should take place in outer space 4000 years from now, then you can't brush is off by using the "wisdom", ahum, "Steven Spielberg knows his IP better then anyone else", everyone with the tinyest bit of intelligence can see it wouldn't be Indiana Jones anymore. But you're just so thickheaded and stubborn you would use credentials and "artistical terms" to say otherwise, just because of the fact "Steven Spielberg" made it and "its his IP".
And this is called "The Trolls Self-justification for Whinning or The 'I know Diablo better than you do' arguement".
You keep amazing me, in a bad way. Reading Corwyn above, its pretty obvious i don't need to "pretend" i was intelligently or its my fault you're clueless.
This one is "The Trolls Appeal to Others". :rolleyes:
I attack ytour credentials just because of the reason i already stated, but i guess i just have to dig through your skull again before i reach any ability of you to understand. Your credentials don't make any argument you made at all valid, infact your credentials are irrelevant, you just like to use them because somehow you think they magically make you speak truthfully.
This one is called "The Trolls Atempt to deny that someone has made some points that they can't dispute."
You do know this is supposed to be a reply to the entire quote above this, yes? In that case its pathetically void of any response to any questions i asked. You don't answer to reason, because you have "credentials", am i correct?
This one is "The Troll claiming that not answering his inane, exhaustingly stupid questions means he somehow 'wins' the argument".
Did you actually bother to read anything in this thread? I don't need to give support of the same opinion over and over and over again because some thickheaded idiot decides "its wrong" somehow, and prefers to spin things around based on "credentials" instead of actually using valid arguments.
This one is just called "The Angry Troll".
Blahblahblah, you disapointed me greatly, i completely and utterly trashed your trolling, kid.
This one is called "The Troll reassuring himself that he won even after not making a single thoughtful point the entire time."
You did it again. You somehow avoided actually making a point about the topic again. You can go ahead and type out how much you know about my credentials again - you've brought them up wayyyyyyyyy wayyyyyy more than I have only to make pointless remarks about them.
P.S. BTW - stop copying me. lol. If I say you've spun something - you have. Then you start freaking out and saying I spun this and I spun that! It's like you learn a new term and you latch on to it and start spouting it off like a total monkey ass. And what's worse is you don't even use the term correctly and you look foolish when you do that. Grow up and learn to debate like a informed person and not some trollish douche. :thumbsup:
You ramble like a drunk with a sock in his mouth, Dopple.
We have all kinds of trolling by you while I've been discussing the topic with people.
If you didn't like my intro of myself and my joke then that's on you. Maybe you should talk some more about my credentials if it makes you feel better.
Are you illiterate? Did you actually read your own response to me? The second to last one? Its bassically consist of nothing but you repeating the word "troll". How long did that take you to conceive of? 12 minutes? Pathetic.
I wonder how many times you are going to call me illiterate when you string your sentences together like a hobo after drinking too much turpentine.
I also wonder why you are criticizing the way in which I pointed out how stupid and trollish you've become in this thread.
It's odd, but I guess I'd be angry too if Blizzard told me to shove it and people made fun of me for bitching that I know what "diablo" is better than Blizzard does.
No i just don't like you and your trolling, you're useless and clueless and incredibly naive. Even starting a flamewar with you would be boring, so don't bother.
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Take your childish anger out on someone who cares.
Moving on. I want to talk art direction with you guys.
Is there really a limited color palette allowed in D3? Does more brown and gray make the game more realistic or more Diablo?
Is realism really that important in a fantasy game? Is it that important to remain totally true to previous games in the series on a single unimportant aspect of the game? Is meeting a standard of "realness" really that important to the over all experience?
Is surrounding a character in blackness the only way in which you can make a dungeon/diablo game?
Do you think there is a reason the game has that look and feel? What is the developers strategy when making a game look this way? When a game goes for realism these days what happens over time? (Hint: Another game comes out later with better more photo realistic graphics and the old game lookes dated!!! Guess why people still play WOW? Because it isn't dated looking anymore.
Why can't Diablo grow as a fantasy world and have some beauty to it's environments? Should it be nothing but dark dungeons because the older games were? (D2 actually had all kinds of refreshing colors.)
I didn't even bother reading all your BS, if you actually stand by arguments like these: "Stop telling Blizzard that you know their IP better than they do. You don't know it better than them."
The naivity radiating out of you is just too overwhelming, sorry.
I don't think anyone gives a shit about what you have to say about me. Either contribute or go ponder over my credentials some more.
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Secondly, while there has been some mocking, there has also been a lot of discussion by me on the subject and points made. Didn't you see?
lol, you got that one!
Almost 99% huh? Hehe.
I never said anything like that. I actually explained many posts ago, after I was accused of having no understanding of art direction, that I did have some experience and training in art. I've done some graphic design and I'm a film major currently. I never said that it means I win at anything, silly pants.
The big picture? Ok. I think what I meant when I said "the big picture" was that we have not seen most of the game yet so anything calling for it to be changed can be construed as premature.
Anyone else in line to throw down the gauntlet with me? Hehe.
I'd rather ask those who want a change in D3:
- Why does shrinking down a pair of shoulder pads on a Barbarian make the game more "Diablo"?
- How does changing the way a gargoyle on the railing of a staircase looks make a game more "Diablo"?
Ok first off, apologies for my post earlier, it came across like I was calling you an idiotic 12 year old when that wasn't my intention at all. I guess my point was that you are using phrases that a certain group of rather hated people use. I and many others are sick of the people who actually genuinely seem to think the petition can be solved by desaturating your monitor and calling anyone who signed an emo that should go put some eyeliner on. You are or were fairly new here and may genuinely been intending it as a joke, knowing that the solutions in the comic were silly, but that was what was meant to make it funny.
You are also right that it takes a little longer draw an image than find it, took me about 15 mins to rough a scene out like that, but still being an artist I would still have just drawn it myself than find an image. Perhaps if the comic wasn't worth the time to draw it wasn't worth making?
The shoulder pads: It makes it more similar to the older games that had a more realistic tone to them, particularly in the armor. (and please don't spout the old "but D2 had big shoulder pads", it did but they didn't cover the characters eyesight and they were big because back then they had limited pixels to work with in-game. The Armor in the inventory is the stuff you should be looking at, and its overall very realistic.
The gargoyle: The Tristram Cathedral was a Gothic place (yes I know the whole game wasn't), the video supposedly used the same tileset as the D3 tristram cathedral however, the most Gothic themed place in the game now looks like a high fantasy version of Bioshock and that statue is nothing like a Gargoyle and frankly looks like a warcraft model.
Nah. I chose to use an image to make the comic faster. It basically relates to my time in the day and the comic was only a quick joke anyway so an image was appropriate.
On the shoulder pads - I feel that big shoulder pads not only give a character more presence and a powerful look, but they lend themselves well to fantasy games. I feel that realism is in no way the bread and butter of the Diablo series so it seems odd to me that so many people dislike the shoulder pads. I feel the other Diablo games weren't as focused on realism as people make out. I think that Diablo 3 will have all kinds of armor in it and shouldn't be limited to a specific type that inhibits the fantasy of it all.
While I think it's being picky, I see your point. I do think that the gargoyle looks fine, and doesn't appear "cute" like some say. It actually looks kinds hand carved and primitive and seems to have it's own style - which is still dark in my book. If it had big googly eyes I would see your point more though. Heh.
I guess our opinions differ on the matter of shoulder armor then! I like the idea of a stylized look for Diablo, I think stylization can immerse people even more in media and I think that when done right it almost makes scenes more real than reality. A painted and stylized look for Diablo doesn't bother me at all, I don't want it to look like Crysis. However I just think that shoulder armor in that style looks downright silly, I have no problem with big shoulder pads, its the overall feel and silhouette of the warcraft like designs that it my opinion fail for the Diablo setting.
Here is a super quick sketch (sorry for poor quality), to me one of these characters looks goofy, unbalanced and hunch backed, whereas one displays the typical look of a "hero" figure, broad shoulders and triangular torso, the figure of a warrior. The hunch backed look even appears in bioshock, very suitably placed on an extremely stupid, bulky and fairly clumsy character that is only good at bashing things. This look is to me (and probably many others) not associated with a skilled warrior.
I busted a lot of ass saving up for this.
Thanks for the credentials and the "idiot" speech... . I think that letting someone know what you've studied, if it relates to the subject, is relevant. If you noticed, liquid was making claims that you don't have to be trained in something to whine incessantly about it,..errr I mean, you don't have to be trained in something to know what good art direction is and to claim that a game needs changes. Well, you and I both know that's true - but an actual background in art HELPS, right? So when I was told that I had no idea what I was talking about I let him know my background.
Having a fundamental understanding of design and art is important if you are going to back up why you have a grievance in the first place. That way you know what you are talking about, and it's clear that a lot of people have no idea. I can't believe someone who has your background would believe it's more about being stupid or not. No wonder you're 99% sure that I have no understanding about art - it sounds to me like we're on very different planes of thought.
The petition actually states that the game is "too beautiful". Now tell me that is the statement of a person who passes your idiot test...
Kinda vague here and silly questions.
I think you're off here. If I didn't call for change, then these questions don't apply to me. Spin them all you want. They must be answered by the people who call for the changes. Some people here have been cool enough to try to answer them too.
Stop telling Blizzard what their style should be.
Kenzai - I think you need to rethink your statement. I really do. Come on.
Nice cliche. Make that up by yourself just now? Sorry I debated some points - that must mean I'm offended in some way. If you want to see some one who's offended look to liquid. He can't stop talking about me personally and it's obvious he had to get out of the ring on the subject of art direction a long time ago after getting his ass handed to him. Check out his trolling skills - it's almost like cut and paste trolling 101.
Kenzai - Here is why you need to rethink your statement and I really, really want you to pay close attention to this:
Imagine you've made some pieces of art. Years later you make another piece of art. Suddenly a fan of your work says, "You can't make art that looks like that!!! That's not YOUR style! You need to go back to you OLD style! That style is more your style than this new style!"
Ridiculous isn't it? Someone telling you not only that you need to stick to your old style, but they are audacious enough to tell you what your style is! What nonsense, right?
You can appeal to the "Why not?" arguement, to which I say: Why not let Blizz make some of the armor sets big and fantasy-like? Some people out there will like them!
The problem with your argument for me is that it comes down to your personal taste. You think a certain gargoyle looks better on a staircase than the one in the game? Whoop-de-shit. That's a nit picky, lame, personal preference and DOES NOT reflect the game as a whole. This who complaint about Diablo 3's style has gone too far and it is no wonder that myself and many others are poking fun at people who are crying for such inane changes with nearly nonsensical reasons for thier back up.
Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it is odd to say things like "Make it more realistic! Make it more scary!" What's scary to people is subjective as hell. What's realistic to people is also. Make it more X and Y! I'm tired of you telling us what is realistic to YOU in a fantasy game. Either enjoy the FANTASY of the game or deal with shoulder pads that are too big for YOUR personal taste.
You must really love Blizz and their games to pick at whether or not armor works when some one bends their body. There is no way in hell that Blizz made their armor so ridiculous that it needs your input to help make it more "Diablo".
See above.
Doppleganger - I thought you might actually have something to say but you don't. I don't know if you're just offended by my jokes or my stance on a the subject but it's clear to me that you have little to nothing to really say about the topic and instead want to foolishly disect my statements and try to pretend that it's proof that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's sad and hilarous...
You need to think these comments out more. They make little to no sense. What do you mean?
Cry more. I have points to make and so do others. You have lame attacks to make and your point are vague. I love getting attacked for merely stating that I have a background in art and I've even been questioned about it. I'm questioning you right now as you haven't responded as I thought you would - with insight. If you can't talk with people about the art direction then do us both a favor and stop trying to plan out another vague, meandering whiney attack on me. Thanks.
"garantee", huh? Ewwwwww 99.9%? Wow. This is just awesome. You have hard proof that I don't understand art now? Please enlighten me oh wise one who has not been able to make even one reference to a single artistic term this entire thread...
lol. Cry more. And make up some more things while you're at it. Who said that beauty was the epitome of art? Show me. I really want to know who said it... please show me! And why would beauty in the confines of a dark fantasy be a bad thing again? Again, enlighten me little bitter art kid.
The 50K people on the petition did, smart guy.
This is the argument of a demented child. Learn to comprehend and drop the BS attacks and try to have a big boy conversation.
I want to hear about your opinion of the art direction and if you think it should be changed and explain why and try not to be vague as hell while doing it.
Stop telling Blizzard that you know their IP better than they do. You don't know it better than them.
It's beyond sad now.
If you can't express yourself intelligently and to the point then don't pretend it's some one elses fault.
You attacked my credentials because you didn't like what I was saying. It's classic trollish behavior of some one who can't dispute points being made.
I'm sorry Dopple. I tried so hard to get you to actually talk about the subject at hand and contribute rather than make outrageous inane claims and blie infested comments. You even had to tell yourself that you have a valid argument. Even when given a chance to state your case against the art direction all you can say is:
Thanks for insight artful one. Don't bother giving any support to this stance.
You points seem to require a lobotomy to understand and I've read multiple articles making fun of people like you on this subject all over the net on prominent gaming news sites. You had your chance to make a point about the art direction but instead you seeped into inane trolling and made a total ass of yourself.
it's also exhausting arguing with a kid who likes to take what you say and then say "Noo I don't do that! YOU do that! I'm not vague!!! You are!" Half the time you don't even state what you referring to. You've got a lot of work to do on communicating your ideas instead of angrily streaming them out like a tantrum is taking place.
Kenzai - I'd like to talk art with you. You have things to say. Liquid and Dopple are kinda out of the loop and too threatened by me to have a real conversation.
Sorry guys - All this came from a little joke I made. I think that even some of you who support the petition to change D3's art direction can tell that the joke wasn't about all of you - it was about the people like Dopple. The ones who think they know it all and would rather debate about credentials than actually talk art. What a waste. I stand by my joke. It's funny and it does hit certain (not all of them) members of the whiny petition for change where it hurts. :thumbsup:
Once again, all I can say is that the Diablo setting was not originally "high fantasy", it is now becoming so and people don't like it. The problem is that that Gargoyle is just one part of many things that make up the scene, take a look and the supposed Tristram dungeon set. Have a look at the tables with their hugely oversize legs and toy like looks. have a look at the chairs with the look of some sort of bizarre deck chair. have a look at the weird lighting pieces that look like they were pulled from some art deco dukebox. Have a real good look at some of that content making up the scene and tell me that it helps make up a dark and creepy dungeon.
Scary is not really subjective, it may vary slightly from one person to another, but people will generally find "alien" scary and "Bambi" not scary. What they have is definitely not considered creepy or scary by most, as I said earlier a lot of the props making the scene look like toys and the whole place is floodlit with green. It's scary in the sort of way that children's movies represent scary.
Subjective, I find it so ugly it will stop me being enthused by the character appearance, but thats personal opinion. However once again I will say its not just about the gargoyle or the armor.
He means that noone complained in these forums before D3 was announced saying "Diablo's look sucked, please make D3 look more like Warcraft Blizzard", so why fix what isn't broken. Not sure if you really missed the point though or if your being stubborn, it was obvious enough to me.
Again, I am pretty sure he means that it is unreasonable that you disagree with change when you are actually agreeing with the previous change, ie the change that took place between D2 and D3.
I disagree with you because you are exaggerating the changes in the new diablo game in order to get your point across. Of course the game is going to change after years and years have gone by in both the game world and the gaming world. But,...in the end it's personal preference. I feel that the game still feels like a dark dungeon crawler and you don't. It's a problem, but from an artistic standpoint now that I can see more of the amazing surroundings and the game isn't as dark I can get a better feel for the world they've created. I can see caverns and things in the distance that are merely shades, but still amazing to look at. Also from a technical standpoint more events can happen in such an environment now - remember the part in the gameplay vid where we see a shady beast walks by in the background? That was cool for me.
I see what you mean, but the game can't fit into a little box of matched content from previous games. It won't give us anything new and refreshing - and it won't give us as amazing and lively looking a world to adventure with in. Again - my opinion.
Myself and others, including a writer for Blizzard Guru, think the setting looks lived in and has a well planned creepy aesthetic. It looks like people had to leave suddenly and it reminded me of a suped up Diablo when I saw it. Again, lol, my opinion. I like the games look and I don't think it's as WoW influence as people are claiming. I think it does have Blizzards trademark style, but it has been taken to a new level and even appears painted on my screen.
Naw. There are horror movies that will scare one of my friends while I sit back and crack up the entire time. That's true enough right? Now the fact that people hate the green light annoys me. Creepy green, poisonous looking light isn't creepy? Shit. Type O Negative a bad ass gothy metal band that I listen to has a song called Creepy Green Light for a damn reason (I'm kinda joking here but it is true). Again it comes down to opinion. I think it's moody and creepy in the tombs and FUN looking. It doesn't look like gray and poo brown surrounded by a black viewfinder. And that's refreshing to me as I feel I'm in a world - not a box. Again - opinions haha.
It is debatable that D3 doesn't look like WoW for the most part. I feel it doesn't.
That's a logical fallacy on your (or his) part. Sorry, but it's true. Just because I like one change does not mean I should agree with another. Sorry. But I hope you get finally why that is a silly statement.
Sigh, thanks for talking opinions with me though instead of planning some kind of whiny attack. It's refreshing and it's a,.....dun dun dun!!! nice CHANGE!!!! :thumbsup:
This above is called "The Trolls Opening".
And this is called "The Trolls Self-justification for Whinning or The 'I know Diablo better than you do' arguement".
This one is "The Trolls Appeal to Others". :rolleyes:
This one is called "The Trolls Atempt to deny that someone has made some points that they can't dispute."
This one is "The Troll claiming that not answering his inane, exhaustingly stupid questions means he somehow 'wins' the argument".
This one is just called "The Angry Troll".
This one is called "The Troll reassuring himself that he won even after not making a single thoughtful point the entire time."
You did it again. You somehow avoided actually making a point about the topic again.
P.S. BTW - stop copying me. lol. If I say you've spun something - you have. Then you start freaking out and saying I spun this and I spun that! It's like you learn a new term and you latch on to it and start spouting it off like a total monkey ass. And what's worse is you don't even use the term correctly and you look foolish when you do that. Grow up and learn to debate like a informed person and not some trollish douche. :thumbsup:
We have all kinds of trolling by you while I've been discussing the topic with people.
If you didn't like my intro of myself and my joke then that's on you. Maybe you should talk some more about my credentials if it makes you feel better.
P.S. I'm reposting these links because I feel they describe how I feel about this situation and the people involved (also read what people said about the articles in the comments):
http://www.destructoid.com/bitchy-diablo-fans-whine-about-diablo-iii-s-art-direction-93237.phtml
http://www.videogamechat.net/news/out-there/Fans-argue-Diablo-III-art-direction-create-petition--835
I wonder how many times you are going to call me illiterate when you string your sentences together like a hobo after drinking too much turpentine.
I also wonder why you are criticizing the way in which I pointed out how stupid and trollish you've become in this thread.
It's odd, but I guess I'd be angry too if Blizzard told me to shove it and people made fun of me for bitching that I know what "diablo" is better than Blizzard does.
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Take your childish anger out on someone who cares.
Moving on. I want to talk art direction with you guys.
Is there really a limited color palette allowed in D3? Does more brown and gray make the game more realistic or more Diablo?
Is realism really that important in a fantasy game? Is it that important to remain totally true to previous games in the series on a single unimportant aspect of the game? Is meeting a standard of "realness" really that important to the over all experience?
Is surrounding a character in blackness the only way in which you can make a dungeon/diablo game?
Do you think there is a reason the game has that look and feel? What is the developers strategy when making a game look this way? When a game goes for realism these days what happens over time? (Hint: Another game comes out later with better more photo realistic graphics and the old game lookes dated!!! Guess why people still play WOW? Because it isn't dated looking anymore.
Why can't Diablo grow as a fantasy world and have some beauty to it's environments? Should it be nothing but dark dungeons because the older games were? (D2 actually had all kinds of refreshing colors.)
Anyway - chew on that for now. Ha.
I don't think anyone gives a shit about what you have to say about me. Either contribute or go ponder over my credentials some more.