Has anyone else gotten the impression that Blizzard has taken a massive injection of casual-itis while developing Diablo 3?
I'm just as excited for D3, but one of the things I loved about D2 was the nitty-gritty nature of the game itself. I think one of the shining features of the game in my opinion was the way it wasn't necessarily user-friendly but at the same time was not complicated or obscure. It simply put itself out there and told you: "I am what I am, let's play".
Moving on, mostly my prejudice about the "user-friendly"ness of what the Q&A panels have said about D3 stems from World of Warcraft. Now, I was an early player (pre-bc) of WoW and was lucky enough to have a first hand experience with the game. I think that fellow pre-BC players can also attest to the fact that it was a much more rewarding and deep experience. The community immersion was superb, you KNEW who was a good player because those were the guys slugging it out raiding MC & BWL night after night. Back then epics were a real reward not because of how good the loot was, but because of the difficulty of achieving them. When BC came out this all pretty much was changed, and the game took a turn towards catering to the casual crowd (due to WoW's huge player base, this was the most economic way to keep the majority of customers satisfied)
While i won't go so far as to say that BC ruined WoW, it did seem to "steal" a bit of that spirit that was ubiquitous during the pre-bc years.
Now, here we are in the present and Diablo 3 appears to be leaning heavily towards words such as "user-friendly" and "casual experience" which are phrases not completely in-line with the spirit of Diablo II we have all come to learn and love over the years. Diablo II had a ruthlessly simple yet intrinistically complex play experience that overall yielded one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.
Point being, WoW lost a lot of it's reward for being a "better" player in order to placate the growing perturbance of casual players who either couldn't or wouldn't put the time in for rewards (i.e. epics). My fear is that this habit of lowering risk vs. reward in order to make the game artificially easier for casual players will manifest itself inside Diablo 3's gameplay.
If diablo 3 is casual friendly it will fail miserably. The ENTIRE reason it succeeded was because it didn't favor 12 year old girls, but because it favored those with skill and passion, much UNLIKE most MMOs.
If diablo 3 is casual friendly it will fail miserably. The ENTIRE reason it succeeded was because it didn't favor 12 year old girls, but because it favored those with skill and passion, much UNLIKE most MMOs.
Yes because all casual gamers are 12 year old girls...
A casual gamer is someone who gets on to an online game and plays for about 30 minutes before he has more important things to do. Most people today can't waste +5 hours a day on gaming. Work, School, LIFE, ect...
Diablo has always supported the casual gamer. You can get into a game and accomplish as much as you want, and usually you can get a lot done in 30 minutes, and then go about your life.
The user friendliness part only hurts when they remove something for the sake of simplicity. For example if they removed life leech or magic find because people didn't understand it, or if they only gave you 2 stats to raise. So far I don't think we will be seeing that. What it looks like they are doing is not really user-friendliness so far, but "streamlining" making parts of the game easier to access or faster than they were before.
Diablo 2 was an extremely casual game.. No monthly fee, play whenever, no guilds, get runs through the entire game in one night.. buy/trade items.. no rush to level.. I mean, how much more casual could you get..
The only thing different in D3 concerning its "casual" and "user friendly" nature is that there is now a easier way to heal and use skills.. oh and the retarded new loot system (which is one thing I will say is "user friendly" and doesn't belong in a online game)...
Yes because all casual gamers are 12 year old girls...
A casual gamer is someone who gets on to an online game and plays for about 30 minutes before he has more important things to do. Most people today can't waste +5 hours a day on gaming. Work, School, LIFE, ect...
Diablo has always supported the casual gamer. You can get into a game and accomplish as much as you want, and usually you can get a lot done in 30 minutes, and then go about your life.
The user friendliness part only hurts when they remove something for the sake of simplicity. For example if they removed life leech or magic find because people didn't understand it, or if they only gave you 2 stats to raise. So far I don't think we will be seeing that. What it looks like they are doing is not really user-friendliness so far, but "streamlining" making parts of the game easier to access or faster than they were before.
I agree wholeheartedly, I personally am probably more of a casual archetypal player in so many words. However my issue with "casual" players is merely as you said, when such notions of "user-friendly"ness translate into simplification of mechanics and game experience due to incompetence or indifference.
One of the biggest factors of Diablo II that enthralled me was the NUMBERS GAME. Yes, I will proudly say that I am a huge nerd and had all of the major damage/stat calculation equations in my TI-83 so when I was bored at school I could fantasize what an ideal rare would look like with certain stats. This was a pretty complicated subject and I was always glad it wasn't simple or glaringly obvious to figure out.
Casual is synonymous with whining, bitching, and moaning.
Casual gamers buy games, suck at them, and then leave.
Diablo 2 still pulls in moderate sales and profits solely because of hardcore gamers.
Hardcore gamers make games, not carebear wanna be twelve year olds.
You work 40 hours a week? Congrats. Most people with real careers and real jobs don't. That leaves at least 100 hours a week for stupid shit, much of which is gaming or equally useless endeavors.
Pretend your ability to suck at stupid online games is because you "have a life, have a fiance, have a job" etc, etc.
The reality is you are a minority of the paying, money making percentage of true gamers.
Casual is synonymous with whining, bitching, and moaning.
Casual gamers buy games, suck at them, and then leave.
Diablo 2 still pulls in moderate sales and profits solely because of hardcore gamers.
Hardcore gamers make games, not carebear wanna be twelve year olds.
You work 40 hours a week? Congrats. Most people with real careers and real jobs don't. That leaves at least 100 hours a week for stupid shit, much of which is gaming or equally useless endeavors.
Pretend your ability to suck at stupid online games is because you "have a life, have a fiance, have a job" etc, etc.
The reality is you are a minority of the paying, money making percentage of true gamers.
That is also what I was getting at, but I believe that there is a dichotomy of players in the "casual" category. There are on one hand players who fulfill completely the adjectives you listed and do it happily and often are the ones to ruin things for others. On the other hand, there are simply players out there who don't have the time to put into a game for whatever reason but don't necessarily complain about it or try to have things tailored to their wishes at the expense of others.
Everything needs a grain of salt, sometimes 2 or 3,
The reality is you are a minority of the paying, money making percentage of true gamers.
Wouldnt casuals be the ones pulling in the most money in your way of thinking? If they buy the game, play it for a few weeks and then shelf it they wouldnt use the server infrastructure and thus not generate costs for server management.
From someone who has been playing games as a hardcore gamer for years and years I totally see where you're coming from. But your general attitude is really bad.
In a single player game, which Diablo 3 is (as is the entire diablo series) why should casual games be stiffed?
I don't get your point, If they wanted to make a game for hardcore gamers why not make another MMO?
Not all Diablo players are hardcore gamers, some a casual. So Blizzard made a game for a wider fan base. I fail to see the issue here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
The hardcore gamers are the ones who buy 2, or 5 accounts, the ones who keep the servers alive, the ones who buy multiple accounts of the game, the ones who stay long enough to keep advertisements alive (half the reason battlenet is still around noobs), etc, etc.
That's like saying McDonald's best customers are the ones who buy a BigMac and throw up, and never buy again.
And that grain of salt is your input, and your wallet.
A hardcore gamer will input 3-5 x what a "casual" gamer will into the gaming economy, longevity, let alone the share holders' wallets.
That's like defending people who want to "save the tree's" but don't have the "time or money" to actually help the cause.
FAIL.
Sure, into game economy and longevity. But none of that generate money for the company unless they have ingame ads. If you have a game with 100% free access once you buy it a person who has bought the game generates exactly ZERO extra money but cost money in upkeep. This is assuming he doesnt work actively to recruit new players to the game.
You'll get ten PMs from people trying to steal your account.
Diablo 2 supported people smart enough to build strong characters and game the system, not whine asses who wanted to hold hands through single player for 3 days and then quit.
And that grain of salt is your input, and your wallet.
A hardcore gamer will input 3-5 x what a "casual" gamer will into the gaming economy, longevity, let alone the share holders' wallets.
That's like defending people who want to "save the tree's" but don't have the "time or money" to actually help the cause.
FAIL.
Yes but this mentality is only applicable for constant content game such as MMORPGs. When taking a game such as DII into regard, each customer is technically equal in that they have all paid the same flat fee to play. In DII the time you put in was yes directly related to the rewards you reaped, but not playing as much didn't give you less of a contribution to the company. (because you've already paid $50)
I'm not exactly sure at this point what you're ranting about, but if you're trying to set me up for demonization it's not going to work because I was a "hardcore" player during my tenure with DII. Yes, I did D2JSP trading, I farmed ubers and I did uber tristrams. I put in my time and enjoyed the rewards.
You'll get ten PMs from people trying to steal your account.
Diablo 2 supported people smart enough to build strong characters and game the system, not whine asses who wanted to hold hands through single player for 3 days and then quit.
I was honestly like 12 or 13 when I played d2, and I found it very easy. Yea, there were scammers everywhere...but the actual game was easy.
You'll get ten PMs from people trying to steal your account.
Diablo 2 supported people smart enough to build strong characters and game the system, not whine asses who wanted to hold hands through single player for 3 days and then quit.
Do you even like the Diablo story? I can imagine you having fun with a text based RPG.
Do you think USeast and USwest pay for those hosting fees? WRONG.
I've worked for several small companies, and I own two marketing companies.
4 times in my relatively short career working for other people I've been asked if my "business" would like to "share in interactive customer" hosting "opportunities" as diablo 2 server sharing.
I'm just as excited for D3, but one of the things I loved about D2 was the nitty-gritty nature of the game itself. I think one of the shining features of the game in my opinion was the way it wasn't necessarily user-friendly but at the same time was not complicated or obscure. It simply put itself out there and told you: "I am what I am, let's play".
Moving on, mostly my prejudice about the "user-friendly"ness of what the Q&A panels have said about D3 stems from World of Warcraft. Now, I was an early player (pre-bc) of WoW and was lucky enough to have a first hand experience with the game. I think that fellow pre-BC players can also attest to the fact that it was a much more rewarding and deep experience. The community immersion was superb, you KNEW who was a good player because those were the guys slugging it out raiding MC & BWL night after night. Back then epics were a real reward not because of how good the loot was, but because of the difficulty of achieving them. When BC came out this all pretty much was changed, and the game took a turn towards catering to the casual crowd (due to WoW's huge player base, this was the most economic way to keep the majority of customers satisfied)
While i won't go so far as to say that BC ruined WoW, it did seem to "steal" a bit of that spirit that was ubiquitous during the pre-bc years.
Now, here we are in the present and Diablo 3 appears to be leaning heavily towards words such as "user-friendly" and "casual experience" which are phrases not completely in-line with the spirit of Diablo II we have all come to learn and love over the years. Diablo II had a ruthlessly simple yet intrinistically complex play experience that overall yielded one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.
Point being, WoW lost a lot of it's reward for being a "better" player in order to placate the growing perturbance of casual players who either couldn't or wouldn't put the time in for rewards (i.e. epics). My fear is that this habit of lowering risk vs. reward in order to make the game artificially easier for casual players will manifest itself inside Diablo 3's gameplay.
Yes because all casual gamers are 12 year old girls...
A casual gamer is someone who gets on to an online game and plays for about 30 minutes before he has more important things to do. Most people today can't waste +5 hours a day on gaming. Work, School, LIFE, ect...
Diablo has always supported the casual gamer. You can get into a game and accomplish as much as you want, and usually you can get a lot done in 30 minutes, and then go about your life.
The user friendliness part only hurts when they remove something for the sake of simplicity. For example if they removed life leech or magic find because people didn't understand it, or if they only gave you 2 stats to raise. So far I don't think we will be seeing that. What it looks like they are doing is not really user-friendliness so far, but "streamlining" making parts of the game easier to access or faster than they were before.
Diablo 2 was an extremely casual game.. No monthly fee, play whenever, no guilds, get runs through the entire game in one night.. buy/trade items.. no rush to level.. I mean, how much more casual could you get..
The only thing different in D3 concerning its "casual" and "user friendly" nature is that there is now a easier way to heal and use skills.. oh and the retarded new loot system (which is one thing I will say is "user friendly" and doesn't belong in a online game)...
I agree wholeheartedly, I personally am probably more of a casual archetypal player in so many words. However my issue with "casual" players is merely as you said, when such notions of "user-friendly"ness translate into simplification of mechanics and game experience due to incompetence or indifference.
One of the biggest factors of Diablo II that enthralled me was the NUMBERS GAME. Yes, I will proudly say that I am a huge nerd and had all of the major damage/stat calculation equations in my TI-83 so when I was bored at school I could fantasize what an ideal rare would look like with certain stats. This was a pretty complicated subject and I was always glad it wasn't simple or glaringly obvious to figure out.
Casual gamers buy games, suck at them, and then leave.
Diablo 2 still pulls in moderate sales and profits solely because of hardcore gamers.
Hardcore gamers make games, not carebear wanna be twelve year olds.
You work 40 hours a week? Congrats. Most people with real careers and real jobs don't. That leaves at least 100 hours a week for stupid shit, much of which is gaming or equally useless endeavors.
Pretend your ability to suck at stupid online games is because you "have a life, have a fiance, have a job" etc, etc.
The reality is you are a minority of the paying, money making percentage of true gamers.
That is also what I was getting at, but I believe that there is a dichotomy of players in the "casual" category. There are on one hand players who fulfill completely the adjectives you listed and do it happily and often are the ones to ruin things for others. On the other hand, there are simply players out there who don't have the time to put into a game for whatever reason but don't necessarily complain about it or try to have things tailored to their wishes at the expense of others.
Everything needs a grain of salt, sometimes 2 or 3,
Wouldnt casuals be the ones pulling in the most money in your way of thinking? If they buy the game, play it for a few weeks and then shelf it they wouldnt use the server infrastructure and thus not generate costs for server management.
From someone who has been playing games as a hardcore gamer for years and years I totally see where you're coming from. But your general attitude is really bad.
A hardcore gamer will input 3-5 x what a "casual" gamer will into the gaming economy, longevity, let alone the share holders' wallets.
That's like defending people who want to "save the tree's" but don't have the "time or money" to actually help the cause.
FAIL.
I don't get your point, If they wanted to make a game for hardcore gamers why not make another MMO?
Not all Diablo players are hardcore gamers, some a casual. So Blizzard made a game for a wider fan base. I fail to see the issue here.
That's like saying McDonald's best customers are the ones who buy a BigMac and throw up, and never buy again.
Fail.
Sure, into game economy and longevity. But none of that generate money for the company unless they have ingame ads. If you have a game with 100% free access once you buy it a person who has bought the game generates exactly ZERO extra money but cost money in upkeep. This is assuming he doesnt work actively to recruit new players to the game.
Go join USeast and "ask for help".
You'll get ten PMs from people trying to steal your account.
Diablo 2 supported people smart enough to build strong characters and game the system, not whine asses who wanted to hold hands through single player for 3 days and then quit.
I'm not exactly sure at this point what you're ranting about, but if you're trying to set me up for demonization it's not going to work because I was a "hardcore" player during my tenure with DII. Yes, I did D2JSP trading, I farmed ubers and I did uber tristrams. I put in my time and enjoyed the rewards.
Even then, only hardcore players are the people buying extra cd keys and therefore extra copies.
In both regards, I win, and you fail.
I was honestly like 12 or 13 when I played d2, and I found it very easy. Yea, there were scammers everywhere...but the actual game was easy.
Do you even like the Diablo story? I can imagine you having fun with a text based RPG.
I've worked for several small companies, and I own two marketing companies.
4 times in my relatively short career working for other people I've been asked if my "business" would like to "share in interactive customer" hosting "opportunities" as diablo 2 server sharing.
That's the logic that Elijah Wood made lord of the rings.
Completely retarded and unrelated.