I proposed the idea of respecing every 5 (or 6 if DII system stays) levels. You get to level 5, you get to respec those 5 levels and define in which direction you are going. 5 levels later, you get to respec skill points from levesl 6-10. And so on. This way you can't respec too much and you have to stick to some idea. And it doesn't rely on a currency or playing time or whatever...
A pretty good idea... maybe every 10-15 levels... depending on max. So by the time they hit the higher levels, they know what they want to stick with.
Respecs in D2 wouldn't make much sense, but if the skills are different, then it might be needed.
One thing with differences in skills and class is how they are managed in the field of battle. If the barbarian has "leap attack" and you didn't spec for that some enviroments later in the game based on their archetecture might be harrowingly difficult. So difficult you're not going to keep up.
The magic caster in your party doesn't have any other spell but fire and bam immunity to fire enemies are everywhere.
Even if respec is extremely expensive and annoying to get to the option should be there.
With casual gamers :thumbsup: out there Blizzard is not going to lose a source of income when they can put such an option in as a safeguard.
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Quote from "DIABLO »
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" 3:18 -- While nothing was confirmed, Wilson made it sound like you'll probably be able to respec your character skills."
I do not see any reason why they should impliment this now. It makes me feel like they are being too heavily influenced by WOW. Each character needs its own personality. You see "XxPKTHENOOBxX" and you know hes that asshole that kills everyone for no reason... and you know he's lightning spec. That is personality. That needs to feel the same as Diablo 2.
They don't want people getting rushed through the game just to have another high level. I understand that. But some people like going through the game more than a few times. Some people enjoy planning their skills... and seeing if it is a good build or not. It was part of the fun of the previous games. Why take that away?
Okay... so you may have made a mistake with your skills... give people 1 or 2 respecs... but not ENDLESS.
What do you think?
Thanks!
edit: added link to actual interview
Some peopel did enjoy doing everything all over again and being forced into it. I and others didn't. What I don't understand is why can't people just let it be in the game? I mean if you want to play all over again then go ahead. Why not just play as a dif character though? Wouldn't that be more fun? Maybe some skills will turn out useful at the beginning of the game and turn out useless at the end, why can't we just completely reallocate those skills?
Nonetheless, even though I'm Pro-Respec, I think there should be some of limit applied to it. Like you can only do it once a week or something on Bnet (Single-Player as much as you want). Cost a lot of money, maybe even need to do a small quest to be able to do it. (Obviously repeatable)
How about : IT REMOVES A GIGANTIC PART OF THE GAMEPLAY.
Now, if that wasn't an important part of the gameplay for you, that fine. But it was a HUGE part of the gameplay for me. It was the main part, along with collecting gear.
Here is where I stand : One point every level is great. and then either gold or exp to respec more than that. I think you should be able to tweak your character's skills some, but make it impossibly expensive to complete change it.
Exactly what part of the gameplay are you talking about? The part where you screw up and start over from scratch, and get your friends hammerdin to rush you? Thats not good gameplay IMO, in fact, I'm only paying half attention to the game at that point because thats all i need to. It's grind.
Needing exp to do it is an interesting idea, and would depend largely on how leveling up in general works in D3. As for gold, yeah, making it obscenely expensive is fine.
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There are no cheap tactics, only good ones.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
GIEV D3 INFOZ NAO!( <---Poster from the official Bnet Forums) "I'm sure that in time, every bit of her will be gone and her death will be a mystery... even to me."-Secret Window
I would say yes, but not a full respec. You should look at what the skills are ahead of time so you know what you want. That being said, I would say just a respec of the last skill you placed (perhaps a gold cost at one of the vendors or something). If they make the leveling up process a lot slower, however, perhaps a total respec through a quest, or perhaps through beating a difficulty, would be in order.
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"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will." -Thomas Carlyle
Exactly what part of the gameplay are you talking about? The part where you screw up and start over from scratch, and get your friends hammerdin to rush you? Thats not good gameplay IMO, in fact, I'm only paying half attention to the game at that point because thats all i need to. It's grind.
Needing exp to do it is an interesting idea, and would depend largely on how leveling up in general works in D3. As for gold, yeah, making it obscenely expensive is fine.
Planning your character. That was a huge part of the game for a lot of people.
I don't really care either, because I'm certain they would pick whatever they felt kept the gameplay most balanced. Idealy, you would be able to make reasonable tweaks through out. If it is implemented, I would like to see it cost exp, or if gold isn't worthless and huge amount of gold.
In fact, thats a way to control the economy. If you charge gold for respecs anding sockets to items(and anything else you could think of), you would in effect, make gold not worthless.
People sometimes experience difficulty and frustrations through wrong allocation of stat and skill points. It would be nice to have a quest that would give the player the right to reallocate his/her stat points. My idea would be composed of one quest, along with *X* level taken away from the player's character.
For example.
Stat/Skill pt. Reset can only be made possible by talking to a certain NPC which initiates a quest like redoing the 'Arreat Summit' quest but for the reason of having a stat/skill reset.
After done killing the 3 barbarians at the Arreat Summit, instead of having a level up, you attain 1 level down(i.e. lvl56>lvl55) thus reverting your skill/stat points back to their original state making it possible to reallocate the points into different sets of skills/stats.
Can be repeated several times but doubles the level taken away from the player's character with each try. Like say, your character did the quest for restatting once already, and you're going to do it again for the second time. Instead of having one level taken, your character will have two levels taken away and three levels taken away for the third time(i.e. 2nd time doing the quest, lvl55>lvl53, 3rd time doing the quest, lvl53>lvl50).
I believe this would give the players a much more reason to keep playing their could-be mule characters that were abandoned due to wrong allocation of points.
As from my views, the feature can't be abused, it can help most people that are having trouble or are playing the game for the first time. The feature could help most players a lot especially those who are hardcore gamers and would want to try different builds on the same character without wasting character slots.
Titan Quest had an 'undo' button that would last as long as the skill window was still up in case you accidentally allocated a point, but as far as normal respecs go...
I think a single respec option when the character reaches half of the max level (or equivalent of that situation) would be okay. By then, characters will (hopefully) know what each skill does and how it works and if they still want it.
its a decent idea (although i prefer NO RESPECS). I dont think it should be able to be redone though, because then if they are constantly redoing it, i would think the reason goes beyond they screwed up in making their char....i hate beign able to change your char build anytime...it makes for much less gameplay time, and for a feeling of uniqueness taken away.
bottom line is limited to no respecing should be allowed.
Titan Quest had an 'undo' button that would last as long as the skill window was still up in case you accidentally allocated a point, but as far as normal respecs go...
TQ also has a person you can go to and respec a point for 500g, which is almost nothing. But the next point is 1000g, then 1500, etc. I didnt' play online enough to hear people's view on that. An exponential increase of cost for each additional point.
Not that pricy if you messed up a little, but entire respecs would be really expensive.
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Believe it or not, I agree with planning being a huge part of making a successful character. The part I disagree with is that respecing takes away from it. I used to play Guild Wars religiously (my hours logged is in the thousands) and respecs definitely did NOT take away from planning. Having been a PvPer in that game, planning went a long way towards success, and you didn't just plan one character, you planned your entire 8 man team. Every skill. Every stat. 8 times.
Back on track now, the respecs in GW were allowed as many times as you wanted, and were free. This actualy encouraged you to find the better builds, and to optimize the good ones.
Lets take a look at the planning process from the 2 games.
Diablo 2:LoD
1 choose a function (this boils down usually to farming PvE or PvP)
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 choose attributes based on gear, and skills
4 level a character (trist/tomb run, rush, norm baal run, rush, NM baal run, rush, Hell baal runs)
for new ideas, go back to step 1
Guild Wars
1 Choose a function
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 plan skills and stats
4 level your character ( doing this goes hand in hand with aquireing money for gear, and getting skills)
for new ideas, use steps 1~3
Now, I've said before that the part I don't like is the grind, and this constitutes step 4 in both scenarios. I enjoy story elements of most games (and diablo is no exception), but not over and over again, especialy when you have to do everything 3 times (norm, nm, hell) each time you want to try something new.. Respecs eliminate that part of the game and allow you to focus more on the planning.
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There are no cheap tactics, only good ones.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
The reasons from scimming pages that I have seen why people don't like respec.
To much influence from WoW.
Character loses personality.
To easy to go through game.
the love of planning out a character.
Takes no skill and rewards bad players.
I don't really see everyone's phobia of D3 being "corrupted" by WoW mechanics. D3 wont turn into WoW2, you can all calm down.
I don't really get the personality thing. Its kinda weird to nitpick a game mechanic because someones name is not going to be XxxHammerdinxxX.
You CAN ignore the respec option and go through the game respec-less. Respecs are not mandatory. Same goes for planning out characters, you can still do it.
It dosen't really take all that much skill to build a character in D2, and thats all we have to base D3 character planning off of. Expecially after things such as Syngergies where introduced which guided you into certain builds.
Believe it or not, I agree with planning being a huge part of making a successful character. The part I disagree with is that respecing takes away from it. I used to play Guild Wars religiously (my hours logged is in the thousands) and respecs definitely did NOT take away from planning. Having been a PvPer in that game, planning went a long way towards success, and you didn't just plan one character, you planned your entire 8 man team. Every skill. Every stat. 8 times.
Back on track now, the respecs in GW were allowed as many times as you wanted, and were free. This actualy encouraged you to find the better builds, and to optimize the good ones.
Lets take a look at the planning process from the 2 games.
Diablo 2:LoD
1 choose a function (this boils down usually to farming PvE or PvP)
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 choose attributes based on gear, and skills
4 level a character (trist/tomb run, rush, norm baal run, rush, NM baal run, rush, Hell baal runs)
for new ideas, go back to step 1
Guild Wars
1 Choose a function
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 plan skills and stats
4 level your character ( doing this goes hand in hand with aquireing money for gear, and getting skills)
for new ideas, use steps 1~3
Now, I've said before that the part I don't like is the grind, and this constitutes step 4 in both scenarios. I enjoy story elements of most games (and diablo is no exception), but not over and over again, especialy when you have to do everything 3 times (norm, nm, hell) each time you want to try something new.. Respecs eliminate that part of the game and allow you to focus more on the planning.
I see what you are getting at. I don't agree though. It seems like nothing is permanent about your character if you change your skills around at will. Grinding does suck, but the general randomness of diablo made it much more enjoyable than in any other RPG.
My guess is that the game will have unlimited respec. I would prefer limited. But to be honest, I'm going to assume that they will try both, and pick which ever one they think is more fun.
Re-speccing simply DOES NOT affect replayability, since it's a user's own choice. If they thought it affected replayability, then they don't have to respec, and they can re-level some character over again, fine.
Skills will never always work as people intend/imagined. Sometimes it will not be realized until later too. Even ignoring that, even moreso, many skills may become ineffective at later difficulties, making it a regret and waste for the player. It simply does not need to be like that.
Imagine single player, where for instance in diablo 2, it is hard as hell to get good items in Hell difficulty, because everything that drops is not elite or not good magic modifiers... If a player happens to find a few items that synergize for a great build for his class, why shouldn't he be able to use them? just because he chose a skill line down the wrong path?
Respeccing is common place in games now. It does not mess up, destroy, mutate, or warp the gameplay in any adverse way! it makes people have more available time so they don't have to waste 9 hours a day playing the damn game and still have fun.
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A pretty good idea... maybe every 10-15 levels... depending on max. So by the time they hit the higher levels, they know what they want to stick with.
One thing with differences in skills and class is how they are managed in the field of battle. If the barbarian has "leap attack" and you didn't spec for that some enviroments later in the game based on their archetecture might be harrowingly difficult. So difficult you're not going to keep up.
The magic caster in your party doesn't have any other spell but fire and bam immunity to fire enemies are everywhere.
Even if respec is extremely expensive and annoying to get to the option should be there.
With casual gamers :thumbsup: out there Blizzard is not going to lose a source of income when they can put such an option in as a safeguard.
Some peopel did enjoy doing everything all over again and being forced into it. I and others didn't. What I don't understand is why can't people just let it be in the game? I mean if you want to play all over again then go ahead. Why not just play as a dif character though? Wouldn't that be more fun? Maybe some skills will turn out useful at the beginning of the game and turn out useless at the end, why can't we just completely reallocate those skills?
Nonetheless, even though I'm Pro-Respec, I think there should be some of limit applied to it. Like you can only do it once a week or something on Bnet (Single-Player as much as you want). Cost a lot of money, maybe even need to do a small quest to be able to do it. (Obviously repeatable)
Exactly what part of the gameplay are you talking about? The part where you screw up and start over from scratch, and get your friends hammerdin to rush you? Thats not good gameplay IMO, in fact, I'm only paying half attention to the game at that point because thats all i need to. It's grind.
Needing exp to do it is an interesting idea, and would depend largely on how leveling up in general works in D3. As for gold, yeah, making it obscenely expensive is fine.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
GIEV D3 INFOZ NAO! ( <---Poster from the official Bnet Forums)
"I'm sure that in time, every bit of her will be gone and her death will be a mystery... even to me."-Secret Window
"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will."
-Thomas Carlyle
Planning your character. That was a huge part of the game for a lot of people.
I don't really care either, because I'm certain they would pick whatever they felt kept the gameplay most balanced. Idealy, you would be able to make reasonable tweaks through out. If it is implemented, I would like to see it cost exp, or if gold isn't worthless and huge amount of gold.
In fact, thats a way to control the economy. If you charge gold for respecs anding sockets to items(and anything else you could think of), you would in effect, make gold not worthless.
For example.
Stat/Skill pt. Reset can only be made possible by talking to a certain NPC which initiates a quest like redoing the 'Arreat Summit' quest but for the reason of having a stat/skill reset.
After done killing the 3 barbarians at the Arreat Summit, instead of having a level up, you attain 1 level down(i.e. lvl56>lvl55) thus reverting your skill/stat points back to their original state making it possible to reallocate the points into different sets of skills/stats.
Can be repeated several times but doubles the level taken away from the player's character with each try. Like say, your character did the quest for restatting once already, and you're going to do it again for the second time. Instead of having one level taken, your character will have two levels taken away and three levels taken away for the third time(i.e. 2nd time doing the quest, lvl55>lvl53, 3rd time doing the quest, lvl53>lvl50).
I believe this would give the players a much more reason to keep playing their could-be mule characters that were abandoned due to wrong allocation of points.
As from my views, the feature can't be abused, it can help most people that are having trouble or are playing the game for the first time. The feature could help most players a lot especially those who are hardcore gamers and would want to try different builds on the same character without wasting character slots.
Hope you like it. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9336&highlight=respec
I think a single respec option when the character reaches half of the max level (or equivalent of that situation) would be okay. By then, characters will (hopefully) know what each skill does and how it works and if they still want it.
bottom line is limited to no respecing should be allowed.
TQ also has a person you can go to and respec a point for 500g, which is almost nothing. But the next point is 1000g, then 1500, etc. I didnt' play online enough to hear people's view on that. An exponential increase of cost for each additional point.
Not that pricy if you messed up a little, but entire respecs would be really expensive.
Believe it or not, I agree with planning being a huge part of making a successful character. The part I disagree with is that respecing takes away from it. I used to play Guild Wars religiously (my hours logged is in the thousands) and respecs definitely did NOT take away from planning. Having been a PvPer in that game, planning went a long way towards success, and you didn't just plan one character, you planned your entire 8 man team. Every skill. Every stat. 8 times.
Back on track now, the respecs in GW were allowed as many times as you wanted, and were free. This actualy encouraged you to find the better builds, and to optimize the good ones.
Lets take a look at the planning process from the 2 games.
Diablo 2:LoD
1 choose a function (this boils down usually to farming PvE or PvP)
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 choose attributes based on gear, and skills
4 level a character (trist/tomb run, rush, norm baal run, rush, NM baal run, rush, Hell baal runs)
for new ideas, go back to step 1
Guild Wars
1 Choose a function
2 choose gear (and farm it if nessecary)
3 plan skills and stats
4 level your character ( doing this goes hand in hand with aquireing money for gear, and getting skills)
for new ideas, use steps 1~3
Now, I've said before that the part I don't like is the grind, and this constitutes step 4 in both scenarios. I enjoy story elements of most games (and diablo is no exception), but not over and over again, especialy when you have to do everything 3 times (norm, nm, hell) each time you want to try something new.. Respecs eliminate that part of the game and allow you to focus more on the planning.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
The reasons from scimming pages that I have seen why people don't like respec.
To much influence from WoW.
Character loses personality.
To easy to go through game.
the love of planning out a character.
Takes no skill and rewards bad players.
I don't really see everyone's phobia of D3 being "corrupted" by WoW mechanics. D3 wont turn into WoW2, you can all calm down.
I don't really get the personality thing. Its kinda weird to nitpick a game mechanic because someones name is not going to be XxxHammerdinxxX.
You CAN ignore the respec option and go through the game respec-less. Respecs are not mandatory. Same goes for planning out characters, you can still do it.
It dosen't really take all that much skill to build a character in D2, and thats all we have to base D3 character planning off of. Expecially after things such as Syngergies where introduced which guided you into certain builds.
I see what you are getting at. I don't agree though. It seems like nothing is permanent about your character if you change your skills around at will. Grinding does suck, but the general randomness of diablo made it much more enjoyable than in any other RPG.
My guess is that the game will have unlimited respec. I would prefer limited. But to be honest, I'm going to assume that they will try both, and pick which ever one they think is more fun.
Skills will never always work as people intend/imagined. Sometimes it will not be realized until later too. Even ignoring that, even moreso, many skills may become ineffective at later difficulties, making it a regret and waste for the player. It simply does not need to be like that.
Imagine single player, where for instance in diablo 2, it is hard as hell to get good items in Hell difficulty, because everything that drops is not elite or not good magic modifiers... If a player happens to find a few items that synergize for a great build for his class, why shouldn't he be able to use them? just because he chose a skill line down the wrong path?
Respeccing is common place in games now. It does not mess up, destroy, mutate, or warp the gameplay in any adverse way! it makes people have more available time so they don't have to waste 9 hours a day playing the damn game and still have fun.