I'm not very familiar with the trends in the 2.4 PTR. Do you guys foresee XP Support gear (Born's, Cain's, Hellfire Ring, Leoric's Ring, Gems of Ease, etc) still being practically mandatory for support builds or is this fading away due to the huge nerfs?
Maybe they'll still be used but for lower GRs because you don't need optimized gear to do it?
Basically if gear will help clear rifts faster or higher rifts, then xp gear will not be very valuable.
If gear will not help clear rifts faster or do higher rifts, then xp gear will still be useful.
The only case I see this for is supports doing a much lower GR than they can normally support, or for super farmed DPSers doing speed rifts and have zero need for the purple gem in helm.
Yeah, people would not be wise to use these items unless it is currently their BIS.
Once you have BIS equip, you are better off working toward ancient items and augmentations, using defensive gems in the helm, or cdr gems.
People at first are going to take awhile longer to break into the GR65 farm. In season 4 they made it at record pace because they speed ran GR30-35 until they were paragon 800, using 4 full xp characters. At 800, they went to the meta of 2 support and 2 dps, allowing them to continue to climb up into the 60's, then 70's, and even 80's for those in the paragon 1500+ range.
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
Maybe they'll still be used but for lower GRs because you don't need optimized gear to do it?
Basically if gear will help clear rifts faster or higher rifts, then xp gear will not be very valuable.
If gear will not help clear rifts faster or do higher rifts, then xp gear will still be useful.
The only case I see this for is supports doing a much lower GR than they can normally support, or for super farmed DPSers doing speed rifts and have zero need for the purple gem in helm.
Gear always helped people do higher GRs, and that hasn't stopped groups from using only 1 DPS and 3 XP SUPP to farm GRs this entire season
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
What about +xp per monster gear? I imagine there would be atleast one guy with a leorics crown rocking a red gem, that's still a decent bonus. gem of ease in the weapon too. how can this not be better than not having the person in the group? cc control/heal support, 3 dpsers can still run a high grift i imagine. for non-grift we could always run a full gold=exp setup + goldwrap which covers defense. I just dont see this type of support dying, but thats just m opinion
What about +xp per monster gear? I imagine there would be atleast one guy with a leorics crown rocking a red gem, that's still a decent bonus. gem of ease in the weapon too. how can this not be better than not having the person in the group? cc control/heal support, 3 dpsers can still run a high grift i imagine. for non-grift we could always run a full gold=exp setup + goldwrap which covers defense. I just dont see this type of support dying, but thats just m opinion
The formula is 1.08 ^ X this means that every GR level increases by 8%, doubling in XP every 9 levels. So if you can run GR64 with that one support you suggest, but can run GR66 with 4 DPS, you are better off running 4 DPS.
For comparison, 200% is the rough XP boost one toon can have, this is nerfed to 20% in 2.4 and then split between every toon, for a 5% gain. So essentially, even 1 GR level higher nets you 3% more XP.
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
but you wouldn't get higher without xp gear. only zDPS supports wear that xp gear. as long as they can have their support legendaries AND the xp equip, there will be no reason not to wear xp equip. it doesn't matter if it only gives 5 or 50%. the value only matters to those who are not using it, since they'll always lose out on xp. it just doesn't feel so punishing with 5%
It does matter if it's 5% or 50%, that statement asssumes nothing can be done with alternatives, or that there are no viable opportunity costs. So many options open up when you remove the mandatory requirement for exp gear. Borns (2) + Cains (2) + Hellfire / Leorics (1-2) + mandatory RoRG (1) open up, which is about 5 - 7 item slots, not to mention the Helm Gem Socket and Weapon Socket. Think of what you can accomplish with this. Supports will be able to add additional utility and toughness to their builds or even do some kind of hybrid support / dps setup. If each support's non-exp gear will help the party do current GRs more than 5% quicker or make one higher GR possible it will be just as good or better than exp gear.
Also, on a different note, I don't see why 4 DPS would ever be viable. Supports offer so much more than exp to the party as others pointed out. Creating mass alone speeds up rifts dramatically
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
but you wouldn't get higher without xp gear. only zDPS supports wear that xp gear. as long as they can have their support legendaries AND the xp equip, there will be no reason not to wear xp equip. it doesn't matter if it only gives 5 or 50%. the value only matters to those who are not using it, since they'll always lose out on xp. it just doesn't feel so punishing with 5%
It does matter if it's 5% or 50%, that statement asssumes nothing can be done with alternatives, or that there are no viable opportunity costs. So many options open up when you remove the mandatory requirement for exp gear. Borns (2) + Cains (2) + Hellfire / Leorics (1-2) + mandatory RoRG (1) open up, which is about 5 - 7 item slots, not to mention the Helm Gem Socket and Weapon Socket. Think of what you can accomplish with this. Supports will be able to add additional utility and toughness to their builds or even do some kind of hybrid support / dps setup. If each support's non-exp gear will help the party do current GRs more than 5% quicker or make one higher GR possible it will be just as good or better than exp gear.
Also, on a different note, I don't see why 4 DPS would ever be viable. Supports offer so much more than exp to the party as others pointed out. Creating mass alone speeds up rifts dramatically
Obviously you never push end game speeds either..... Borns/Cains/Hellfire ring and leorics HELP the group by making supp more tanky to keep group up. They are going NOWHERE, dead game is dead
The XP part of the support-builds are indeed dead, and will not provide any real value. The support-builds however, are still kicking. Most parties who have completed GR 80+ have one monk/barb or both in group. Theres a couple of groups without zdps entirely, but it'll be interesting to see how this develops after the next PTR patch.
But, meta aside, the game still lags like sh*t when you push GRs in group.
The +XP stats and bonuses will be almost pointless in 2.4. The level of XP you will get from them will in no way compete with using gear with better stats that allows you to push a higher GRIFT -which will yield comparatively more XP than pushing a lower GRIFT with the XP gear. The only possible exception is if your best gear happens to already have +XP on it, which probably means that you should be on the lookout for an eventual upgrade that makes better use of that secondary stat.
As already stated by others, support builds will probably still be a thing, but not to provide +XP, but rather to provide CC; buffs and debuffs, ultimately resulting in faster and/or higher GRIFT runs. Efficient XP farming is a ratio of how much you earn vs how long it takes you to earn it. With XP bonuses being nerfed into the ground, Blizzard has publicly stated the rationale for the XP nerf is to end the current meta of endless XP buffed grinding, as it makes players feel they are forced to do it if they want to compete on paragon level progress.
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I'm not very familiar with the trends in the 2.4 PTR. Do you guys foresee XP Support gear (Born's, Cain's, Hellfire Ring, Leoric's Ring, Gems of Ease, etc) still being practically mandatory for support builds or is this fading away due to the huge nerfs?
no one will use them, after lvl 70 they are worthless, you'll be better off gearing properly and pushing for more xp and higher gems,
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
wanna bet?
Maybe they'll still be used but for lower GRs because you don't need optimized gear to do it?
Basically if gear will help clear rifts faster or higher rifts, then xp gear will not be very valuable.
If gear will not help clear rifts faster or do higher rifts, then xp gear will still be useful.
The only case I see this for is supports doing a much lower GR than they can normally support, or for super farmed DPSers doing speed rifts and have zero need for the purple gem in helm.
T10 farming?
T10 farming % xp isn't multiplicative, only in GRs, so it's nearly worthless getting xp gear for anything but GRs.
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
Not all those who wander are lost.
Yeah, people would not be wise to use these items unless it is currently their BIS.
Once you have BIS equip, you are better off working toward ancient items and augmentations, using defensive gems in the helm, or cdr gems.
People at first are going to take awhile longer to break into the GR65 farm. In season 4 they made it at record pace because they speed ran GR30-35 until they were paragon 800, using 4 full xp characters. At 800, they went to the meta of 2 support and 2 dps, allowing them to continue to climb up into the 60's, then 70's, and even 80's for those in the paragon 1500+ range.
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
What about +xp per monster gear? I imagine there would be atleast one guy with a leorics crown rocking a red gem, that's still a decent bonus. gem of ease in the weapon too. how can this not be better than not having the person in the group? cc control/heal support, 3 dpsers can still run a high grift i imagine. for non-grift we could always run a full gold=exp setup + goldwrap which covers defense. I just dont see this type of support dying, but thats just m opinion
let's take the support zbarb as an example. What is the purpose of the support other than xp gear?
-damage reduction
-damage amplify
-pulling
-move speed boost
-spawning health globes(if partied with WD)
A full support gear in 68 to 70 would probably wear cains, borns, possibly baby baby cains and crimson.
in 2.4, the better option would probably to bring all that together with some damage by wearing full waste set.
If you remove the perma WOTB, you gain perma IP, spammable shout and warcry with move speed boost if you have chilanik's chain.
For jewelry, endless walk+zodiac. Cubed ring could be a rorg if you want hexing pants+chilanik's+PoC.
I think the support barb is here to stay, just more useful damage wise compared to an xp booster.
For comparison, 200% is the rough XP boost one toon can have, this is nerfed to 20% in 2.4 and then split between every toon, for a 5% gain. So essentially, even 1 GR level higher nets you 3% more XP.
Well, healing monk ain't dead, it has only evolved to Epiphany: Soothing Mist so I see no problem bringing a "weak" sup barb^^
Not so much fading as being purposefully hunted down and murdered in it's sleep.
It does matter if it's 5% or 50%, that statement asssumes nothing can be done with alternatives, or that there are no viable opportunity costs. So many options open up when you remove the mandatory requirement for exp gear. Borns (2) + Cains (2) + Hellfire / Leorics (1-2) + mandatory RoRG (1) open up, which is about 5 - 7 item slots, not to mention the Helm Gem Socket and Weapon Socket. Think of what you can accomplish with this. Supports will be able to add additional utility and toughness to their builds or even do some kind of hybrid support / dps setup. If each support's non-exp gear will help the party do current GRs more than 5% quicker or make one higher GR possible it will be just as good or better than exp gear.
Also, on a different note, I don't see why 4 DPS would ever be viable. Supports offer so much more than exp to the party as others pointed out. Creating mass alone speeds up rifts dramatically
The XP part of the support-builds are indeed dead, and will not provide any real value. The support-builds however, are still kicking. Most parties who have completed GR 80+ have one monk/barb or both in group. Theres a couple of groups without zdps entirely, but it'll be interesting to see how this develops after the next PTR patch.
But, meta aside, the game still lags like sh*t when you push GRs in group.
The +XP stats and bonuses will be almost pointless in 2.4. The level of XP you will get from them will in no way compete with using gear with better stats that allows you to push a higher GRIFT -which will yield comparatively more XP than pushing a lower GRIFT with the XP gear. The only possible exception is if your best gear happens to already have +XP on it, which probably means that you should be on the lookout for an eventual upgrade that makes better use of that secondary stat.
As already stated by others, support builds will probably still be a thing, but not to provide +XP, but rather to provide CC; buffs and debuffs, ultimately resulting in faster and/or higher GRIFT runs. Efficient XP farming is a ratio of how much you earn vs how long it takes you to earn it. With XP bonuses being nerfed into the ground, Blizzard has publicly stated the rationale for the XP nerf is to end the current meta of endless XP buffed grinding, as it makes players feel they are forced to do it if they want to compete on paragon level progress.