I dont think so, you can make a new character right now and beat the game naked. In old Resident Evil games people used to beat the game using only the knife to prove how good they are, Diablo 2 is the other extreme (how easy this is).
I dont think so, you can make a new character right now and beat the game naked. In old Resident Evil games people used to beat the game using only the knife to prove how good they are, Diablo 2 is the other extreme (how easy this is).
Are we really talking about the same game? ^^
I think D2 is much harder than D3 at some points, but most of then are just because itemization is a hard point at D2. D3 has a difficult time at solo progression, diferent from D2 (it's much more balance at this point). At D3 we are bound to some skill specs, making the game much more static than D2, but don't think D2 doesn't have some skill preferences too. But the simple fact the sets/non-sets itens don't have a specific skill sinergy helps a lot to have a fun time developing new char builds (I love my 3 necromances and my javezon!^^).
the reason you can play so many builds is because D2 is easy. Even the Endgame is easy. The difference with D3 is, that the endgame can be as hard and demanding as you want (unlimited greater rift level) so the most optimal builds are the cookie cutter ones. In Diablo2 it is quickly possible to overpower the endgame.
the only thing where I agree with you is that itemization is difficult. But only if you play melee. In this case you need a decent weapon.
Well, at normal and nightmare we can have an easy time, i agree with you. But at hell mode the game really starts. At this point, time is the main factor to define any build at D2. I have some chars at lv 99 and no end build at all yet.
At D3 it is too much easy to find the itens and prepare an end game build. At some point, any progression is totally based at paragom level and no itemization at all. I miss this at D3. At D2, itemization really makes difference, but as you said, it is useless once you can kill everything at hell mode. D3 lacks versatility. D2 lacks an endgame meta now.
Edit: I dont know, but if the devs would bring the rifts and great rifts to D2, probably i would stop playing D3 at all now.
the reason you can play so many builds is because D2 is easy. Even the Endgame is easy. The difference with D3 is, that the endgame can be as hard and demanding as you want (unlimited greater rift level) so the most optimal builds are the cookie cutter ones. In Diablo2 it is quickly possible to overpower the endgame.
the only thing where I agree with you is that itemization is difficult. But only if you play melee. In this case you need a decent weapon.
Well, at normal and nightmare we can have an easy time, i agree with you. But at hell mode the game really starts. At this point, time is the main factor to define any build at D2. I have some chars at lv 99 and no end build at all yet.
At D3 it is too much easy to find the itens and prepare an end game build. At some point, any progression is totally based at paragom level and no itemization at all. I miss this at D3. At D2, itemization really makes difference, but as you said, it is useless once you can kill everything at hell mode. D3 lacks versatility. D2 lacks an endgame meta now.
Edit: I dont know, but if the devs would bring the rifts and great rifts to D2, probably i would stop playing D3 at all now.
I'd be more likely to suggest that a Grindy Beat-Em-Up RPG (or whatever you end up wanting to call Diablo games, Action RPGS too sometimes) are the culprit in themselves. You cannot derive joy from playing a game like this for too long. You can't create complexity without ruining the simplicity of the beat-em-up style. People want to smash through things, but ask for a challenge. Regardless of what you add to these games, it will always be lacking "something" after a bit, and you'll forever be free to fill that "something" with what fills your imagination I suppose.
But, a few alterations or additions should be enough to sooth individuals over for small periods of time.
I dont think so, you can make a new character right now and beat the game naked. In old Resident Evil games people used to beat the game using only the knife to prove how good they are, Diablo 2 is the other extreme (how easy this is).
Are we really talking about the same game? ^^
I think D2 is much harder than D3 at some points, but most of then are just because itemization is a hard point at D2. D3 has a difficult time at solo progression, diferent from D2 (it's much more balance at this point). At D3 we are bound to some skill specs, making the game much more static than D2, but don't think D2 doesn't have some skill preferences too. But the simple fact the sets/non-sets itens don't have a specific skill sinergy helps a lot to have a fun time developing new char builds (I love my 3 necromances and my javezon!^^).
I dont know man, if memory serves me well: chose one skill, spec into vit avoiding OHKO and burn your pots. Thats diablo 2 on normal, you dont need equips as an caster (barb is another story).
You could literally bruteforce through everything in D2 if you afrmed enough (usually hell clears happened around level 75-78 when cap was 99) and everyone played at /players 8 for more drops/xp and whatever (for the ones kìnot knowing, you could force the game to scale as if there were 8 players in game even if you played solo offline).
The "hardness" of D2 came from multiple factors, first of all the skill trees. Many people would just go with random builds which were very likely not optima thus harder to play. Many builds required very specific gear to be effective. Also builds like Skellymancer were extremely easy and effective while not requiring basically anything specific (though some pieces were definite improvements).
D3 is not easier (as both games are easy). D3 funnels to you a so great amount of gear that the struggle to push forward present in D2 is not present in D3. Only way to struggle in D3 is to push for higher GR, but very few people do it and it basically resorts into XP farming.
To be honest, there was never really anything hard or challenging in D2 at all.
Only 2 things comes to mind, if your build & gear was crap, sure you could take a death to Ancients on Hell difficulty. Or a quick drop to NIthalak's corpse explosion's if you were not careful.
With how powerful Life Leech was in D2 there was no challenge to be had.
All i know is that act 2 boss in Diablo2 was a pain in the arse on normal setting.
I had to make a iron maiden necro to get past this guy. Small room, freeze aura and hits like a truck.
I remember on the first ladder, i was lvl 87, died to multishot lightning and was so mad i didnt go to work the next day. It was like 8hours of experience lost
diablo is overall harder, but d2 is occasionally a complete crapshoot. Random ohkos coming from bone festish packs, nith's corpse explode, original version diablo's inferno, uber mephisto could just randomly ohko you because of giant ass lightning bolts + conviction nuking your resists, ancients could be rippy if you got dogpiled, melee builds randomly ripped to an iron maiden curse from hell knights. d2 overall was much easier, but there was more abritrary ohko stuff in d2. Most of it has been fixed out of d3.
I'd say D2 is harder than 3, if only because of all the bugs and glitches - some of which could be a insta-kill or freeze your game - that game had. Diablo 3 is a cake walk by comparison.
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diablo 2 got too hard for me: is diablo 3 easier ? (on easiest setting), thanks
D2 was extremely easy. Why do you think people played on x8, because it was a joke otherwise.
That's also why it felt like there were more builds in D2; you could mow down hell mode with whatever skill you wanted.
I dont think so, you can make a new character right now and beat the game naked. In old Resident Evil games people used to beat the game using only the knife to prove how good they are, Diablo 2 is the other extreme (how easy this is).
I think D2 is much harder than D3 at some points, but most of then are just because itemization is a hard point at D2. D3 has a difficult time at solo progression, diferent from D2 (it's much more balance at this point). At D3 we are bound to some skill specs, making the game much more static than D2, but don't think D2 doesn't have some skill preferences too. But the simple fact the sets/non-sets itens don't have a specific skill sinergy helps a lot to have a fun time developing new char builds (I love my 3 necromances and my javezon!^^).
Well, at normal and nightmare we can have an easy time, i agree with you. But at hell mode the game really starts. At this point, time is the main factor to define any build at D2. I have some chars at lv 99 and no end build at all yet.
At D3 it is too much easy to find the itens and prepare an end game build. At some point, any progression is totally based at paragom level and no itemization at all. I miss this at D3. At D2, itemization really makes difference, but as you said, it is useless once you can kill everything at hell mode. D3 lacks versatility. D2 lacks an endgame meta now.
Edit: I dont know, but if the devs would bring the rifts and great rifts to D2, probably i would stop playing D3 at all now.
I'd be more likely to suggest that a Grindy Beat-Em-Up RPG (or whatever you end up wanting to call Diablo games, Action RPGS too sometimes) are the culprit in themselves. You cannot derive joy from playing a game like this for too long. You can't create complexity without ruining the simplicity of the beat-em-up style. People want to smash through things, but ask for a challenge. Regardless of what you add to these games, it will always be lacking "something" after a bit, and you'll forever be free to fill that "something" with what fills your imagination I suppose.
But, a few alterations or additions should be enough to sooth individuals over for small periods of time.
After all, it's just a game.
I dont know man, if memory serves me well: chose one skill, spec into vit avoiding OHKO and burn your pots. Thats diablo 2 on normal, you dont need equips as an caster (barb is another story).
D2 was easy. D3 is easy.
You could literally bruteforce through everything in D2 if you afrmed enough (usually hell clears happened around level 75-78 when cap was 99) and everyone played at /players 8 for more drops/xp and whatever (for the ones kìnot knowing, you could force the game to scale as if there were 8 players in game even if you played solo offline).
The "hardness" of D2 came from multiple factors, first of all the skill trees. Many people would just go with random builds which were very likely not optima thus harder to play. Many builds required very specific gear to be effective. Also builds like Skellymancer were extremely easy and effective while not requiring basically anything specific (though some pieces were definite improvements).
D3 is not easier (as both games are easy). D3 funnels to you a so great amount of gear that the struggle to push forward present in D2 is not present in D3. Only way to struggle in D3 is to push for higher GR, but very few people do it and it basically resorts into XP farming.
To be honest, there was never really anything hard or challenging in D2 at all.
Only 2 things comes to mind, if your build & gear was crap, sure you could take a death to Ancients on Hell difficulty. Or a quick drop to NIthalak's corpse explosion's if you were not careful.
With how powerful Life Leech was in D2 there was no challenge to be had.
Hi, #Kahaneck.
As you said... normal game isn't dificult at all... but game starts at Hell... as was said before at this topic...
And try to make a poison necromancer without a great dagger, you will see the dificult raise a level too!
All i know is that act 2 boss in Diablo2 was a pain in the arse on normal setting.
I remember on the first ladder, i was lvl 87, died to multishot lightning and was so mad i didnt go to work the next day. It was like 8hours of experience lost
Harder as in more mechanically intense? No. Deeper complexity? Hell yes.
diablo is overall harder, but d2 is occasionally a complete crapshoot. Random ohkos coming from bone festish packs, nith's corpse explode, original version diablo's inferno, uber mephisto could just randomly ohko you because of giant ass lightning bolts + conviction nuking your resists, ancients could be rippy if you got dogpiled, melee builds randomly ripped to an iron maiden curse from hell knights. d2 overall was much easier, but there was more abritrary ohko stuff in d2. Most of it has been fixed out of d3.
I'd say D2 is harder than 3, if only because of all the bugs and glitches - some of which could be a insta-kill or freeze your game - that game had. Diablo 3 is a cake walk by comparison.